If Djokovic doesn't win the WTF

[Clarky21]

Toni made a statement to Spanish press saying that he will NOT quit by the end of this year (according to rumors) and he's pretty sure that he will remain Nadal's only coach till the end of Nadal's career...

That is unfortunate. Why is Nadal incapable of change? It baffles me as to why he at least hasn't brought in a secondary coach to look at his game and tell him what he could do to fix some things. He could have accomplished so much more with a competent coach. Such a waste.

 

[Telepatic]

That is unfortunate. Why is Nadal incapable of change? It baffles me as to why he at least hasn't brought in a secondary coach to look at his game and tell him what he could do to fix some things. He could have accomplished so much more with a competent coach. Such a waste.

Yes, he should try some coaching by Mr. Todd Martin, will do wonders for his serve.

 

[tacou]

unless novak loses 3+ in the rest of the regular season, he gets the nod for best season of all time. if he doesn't win WTF, though, it will be the same as Roger's best years, which are already better than Mac's 2 slam season

 

[zagor]

Yes, he should try some coaching by Mr. Todd Martin, will do wonders for his serve.

Todd gets blamed a lot but reality is Novak's serve has gone to crap long before then, his serve was a big weapon in 2008( I still think that's the year his kick serve was at its best) but from the very start in 2009 for some reason it deterioated and went from being a solid weapon to a liability.

2010 DC final was the first time I've seen Novak serve well since 2008.

 

[jackson vile]

Todd gets blamed a lot but reality is Novak's serve has gone to crap long before then, his serve was a big weapon in 2008( I still think that's the year his kick serve was at its best) but from the very start in 2009 for some reason it deterioated and went from being a solid weapon to a liability.

2010 DC final was the first time I've seen Novak serve well since 2008.

His game started to fall apart once he #1 changed strings then later #2 changed rackets. Mold was the same however SW, SW, Balance, etc were all different.

Todd was the icing on the cake, thing is Novak's serve is far far from conventional. His serve still has never made the full comeback.

 

[Telepatic]

Todd gets blamed a lot but reality is Novak's serve has gone to crap long before then, his serve was a big weapon in 2008( I still think that's the year his kick serve was at its best) but from the very start in 2009 for some reason it deterioated and went from being a solid weapon to a liability.

2010 DC final was the first time I've seen Novak serve well since 2008.

Actually, he was serving so great back in 2007 too, then even better in 2008 and as soon as he changed his racquet his whole technique got messed up..

Started hitting a lot of loopy balls and he was not defending as good as nowadays so this obviously lead to bad results and hurt Nole's confidence..

IMO, he started playing well exactly at this years AO, he flattened up his FH and serve looked much better (I remember my surprise when I noticed improvement in his 1st match against Granollers) but as soon as he won AO, his 1st serve consistency dropped and is not that much of a weapon as it used to be back in the old days and as at the AO this year..

Check his 07/08 days, he had somewhat more fluent and quicker service motion, I still think he shouldn't have changed the racquet.

 

[Raiden]

Djoker can't beat DEL GOATRO in an indoor tournament.

Ergo he won't win the WTF

So this thread is moot and completely redundant

 

[TennisFan3]

That is unfortunate. Why is Nadal incapable of change? It baffles me as to why he at least hasn't brought in a secondary coach to look at his game and tell him what he could do to fix some things. He could have accomplished so much more with a competent coach. Such a waste.

Buddy... you need to read Nadal's book to understand the relationship between Toni and Rafael. Nadal couldn't leave Toni if you pointed a gun to his head.. It's SCARY to say the least. I'm pretty sure such a thing would NEVER be permitted in these parts of the woods

It's always Toni who is the boss and calls all the shots. Nadal is the humble pupil who listens without ifs and buts. It's been true since Nadal was a kid and it continues to be true now.

Every thing that Nadal says in his book about tennis tacits it's always about what Toni thinks or what Toni believes. It's odd and disturbing for someone who's in late 20's, not to mention one of the most successful athletes in the world.

For ex: These are some extracts from the book. And this is in 2010, when Djoko was NOT the force he is today --

Rafael Nadal:

"Djokovic is a fantastic player -more naturally gifted than I am, is Toni's view and he has told me before. He is a very complete player -more complete, Toni says, than I am"-

"When I watch the top players on video, I often have the feeling that they're better than me. In my case it's probably got a lot to do with Toni, who's conditioned me to believe from childhood that every match is going to be an uphill battle."

""With Djokovic, there is no clear tactical plan. It is simply a question of playing at your very best, with maximum intensity and aggression, seeking to retain control of the point, because the moment you let him get the upper hand, he is unstoppable. ""

First class RUBBISH. As you can see, Toni's strategy for Nadal against Djokovic: -

"There was no strategy except to play exceptionally well all the match"


LOL!

 

[Clarky21]

Buddy... you need to read Nadal's book to understand the relationship between Toni and Rafael. Nadal couldn't leave Toni if you pointed a gun to his head.. It's SCARY to say the least. I'm pretty sure such a thing would NEVER be permitted in these parts of the woods

It's always Toni who is the boss and calls all the shots. Nadal is the humble pupil who listens without ifs and buts. It's been true since Nadal was a kid and it continues to be true now.

Every thing that Nadal says in his book about tennis tacits it's always about what Toni thinks or what Toni believes. It's odd and disturbing for someone who's in late 20's, not to mention one of the most successful athletes in the world.

For ex: These are some extracts from the book. And this is in 2010, when Djoko was NOT the force he is today --



First class RUBBISH. As you can see, Toni's strategy for Nadal against Djokovic: -

"There was no strategy except to play exceptionally well all the match"


LOL!

Wow,that bad? It sounds like he was abused or something by the way you put it. Toni must have done a real number on Nadal's psyche.

 

[TennisFan3]

Wow,that bad? It sounds like he was abused or something by the way you put it. Toni must have done a real number on Nadal's psyche.

Yep it's weird. And the crazy thing is Nadal talks about this in the book, which doesn't make much sense to me. I mean, if he exposes so many things in a book , you gotta wonder what kind of skeletons are hidden in the closet..

 

[Murrayfan31]

I could care less one bit. But he still owned Nadal this year.

 

[Clarky21]

I could care less one bit. But he still owned Nadal this year.

And Murray.

 

[Mainad]

And Murray.

And Federer.

 

[Murrayfan31]

And Murray.

Say hi to US Open 2008 and Australian Open 2010.

 

[NikeWilson]

Djokovic had REAL competition in nadal fed etc not roddick Hewitt etc what he has done is far more Impressive.

I agree.
Like I said before, Federer had it much easier back in his days of dominance.

 

[Raiden]

I could care less one bit. But he still owned Nadal this year.

So you DO care, then.

 

[tenniselbow1]

Djokovic won 5 STRAIGHT Masters this year, across all surfaces, beating the World No. 1 four times. Nobody has even won 5 in a single season, let alone consecutively. Had Federer done this, it would be one of the most celebrated achievements in tennis history. But since he didn't, who cares, right? It all comes down to what FEDERER did or didn't do....and since Federer won the WTF and not 5 other Masters, that is measuring stick that we use to evaluate Djokovic's season.

Dude go cry to your mommy and not us. Fact is the WTF is far more difficult to win than any MS title, and in a 5 set format which Fed has won twice is possibly more difficult than any of the slams. Points, prize money and advertising both make its importance stand out above everything but a slam.

 

[veroniquem]

WTF is not more difficult to win than a master, if only because unlike in masters, in WTF you can lose 1 or more matches and still win the whole thing.
WTF and masters are very different, in format, surface, # of players etc... they each have different difficulties.
Of course there are 9 masters and only 1 WTF, so one has more opportunities for winning masters in terms of probability but that is something different than level of difficulty.

 

[tenniselbow1]

WTF is not more difficult to win than a master, if only because unlike in masters, in WTF you can lose 1 or more matches and still win the whole thing.
WTF and masters are very different, in format, surface, # of players etc... they each have different difficulties.
Of course there are 9 masters and only 1 WTF, so one has more opportunities for winning masters in terms of probability but that is something different than level of difficulty.

Totally disagree. Facing off against 5 of the top 8 players in the world to win a title regardless if you can lose once or not is more difficult than having to face 2 but usually 1 top 8 players to win a MS shield. Fed has won the thing 5 times, going undefeated 4 times, so his accomplishment there trumps BY FAR for example what Rafa has done in Montecarlo over the last few years.

 

[tenniselbow1]

Yeah but Djoko owns Nadal recently. As I said before, Djoko might have been beaten by a decent grass court player in Wimbledon, because to me he didn't look all that great. His level was nowhere to what it was in RG, AO and UsOpen. But Nadal is plagued by such big matchup issues against Djokovic, that all the surface advantages were neutralized, and frankly Rafa should have done much better. The could play on ice right now, and Nadal would still find a way to lose I guess..

"But Nadal is plagued by such big matchup issues against Djokovic"

Anyone who says this immediately loses my respect as a credible poster.Please go spend 30 minutes of your time to go define Match up issues and find out what those are before you say something like this. Djokovic/Nadal is not a match up issue its pure ownage. Delpo/Nadal, Fed/Nadal have match up issues. Fed/Djokovic match up extremely well for example.

 

[Clarky21]

"But Nadal is plagued by such big matchup issues against Djokovic"

Anyone who says this immediately loses my respect as a credible poster.Please go spend 30 minutes of your time to go define Match up issues and find out what those are before you say something like this. Djokovic/Nadal is not a match up issue its pure ownage. Delpo/Nadal, Fed/Nadal have match up issues. Fed/Djokovic match up extremely well for example.

Complete bs. Cvac is a match-up issue,and since he has started his magic potion and Nadal has declined so much,it has become more glaring. Cvac had to wait for those two things to happen simultaneously before he could dominate Nadal like he has this year. Their h2h tells the story very well.

Not to mention most of the top players have played like bums this year as well. Cvac has been very,very lucky this year,and right now is completely beatable if people would grow some b*lls when they play against him. He just does not have any decent competition right now. This whole season has left me with a strange feeling. Something is not kosher,and I really hope whatever it is he has been doing to become superhuman is brought to light.

 

[TennisFan3]

. Djokovic/Nadal is not a match up issue its pure ownage. Delpo/Nadal, Fed/Nadal have match up issues. Fed/Djokovic match up extremely well for example.

LOL LOL LOL.

Do you know what a matchup issue really means? Djoko was always a tough matchup for Nadal from the tennis perspective, but in the past, Nadal won because of the intangibles. But I guess you're so blinded by the Nadal hate that you wouldn't understand logic would you?

 

[MichaelNadal]

So you DO care, then.

Owned. Gotta love how everyone says it wrong.

 

[Murrayfan31]

So you DO care, then.

I care most about the slams. The other tournaments are easily forgotten.

 

[timnz]

Wtf and olympics

(Nadal needs World Tour Finals title more than Djokovic needs it. Nadal is on the verge of completing all the big titles, the 4 slams, Olympic Singles Gold, World Tour Finals is next most prestigious event. Doesn't really matter what Djokovic wins this year, it won't elevate him to Federer/Nadal level in terms of career achievements)

Most would put the wtf above the Olympics. I would say far above, but nearly everybody would have it clearly above.

 

[Clarky21]

Most would put the wtf above the Olympics. I would say far above, but nearly everybody would have it clearly above.

The only reason it means so much more than everything else to some folks is because Nadal has never won it. If he ever does win it(which I doubt he will),it will suddenly become no better than a 250 event. It's as transparent as plate glass.

 

[sonicare]

WTF is not more difficult to win than a master, if only because unlike in masters, in WTF you can lose 1 or more matches and still win the whole thing.

This is precisely what makes WTF more difficult to win. You could fluke a win over the best players but you gotta be ready to do it twice.

You think ljubicic could ever win the WTF?, yet he won a masters. point proven. go back to your trollcave.

 

[BULLZ1LLA]

The only reason it means so much more than everything else to some folks is because Nadal has never won it. If he ever does win it(which I doubt he will),it will suddenly become no better than a 250 event. It's as transparent as plate glass.

(Still, you doubted he would make it past the QF of this year's US Open. You even said this after seeing the draw! You had penciled in Murray as a finalist but also gave Del Potro a chance. So it's a good sign if you doubt Nadal will ever win the World Tour Finals)

 

[Clarky21]

(Still, you doubted he would make it past the QF of this year's US Open. You even said this after seeing the draw! You had penciled in Murray as a finalist but also gave Del Potro a chance. So it's a good sign if you doubt Nadal will ever win the World Tour Finals)

I was defending Nadal from the people who act as though the WTF is the end all be all of tennis achievment. I don't agree that it is,and I also think that the Olympics are more special considering they are played once every 4 years,and you can't lose matches and still win it. I'm not surprised what I said went right over your head.

And no I don't think Nadal will ever win the WTF. The surface doesn't suit him,and he blew his chance to win it last year when he lost to Fed.

 

[bullfan]

(I'm going to get blasted for this - but what the heck......)

I believe that if Djokovic doesn't win the WTF then his 2011 is inferior to Federer's 2004, 2006 and 2007. Reason: In each of those seasons Federer won 4 out of the 5 top events, whereas Djokovic would have won only 3 out of the top 5 events. I say that even if Djokovic's winning %age is better (actually that is far from established - he is 3 down, he could be 4 down before the end of the year), because winning the top events is more important than winning %age. I guess it would come down to people's views on the relative prestige of the WTF. I believe it is far above the Masters 1000 events and only a tad less than slams.

What do people think?

Well, the match hasn't been played for one. Djokovic has had an incredible year, kudos to him. If he's crashed and burned after his year, I wouldn't hold it against him. It's tough going out there. It's very physical. I've heard that Novak went back to his serve that he went away from because it was going to cause injury. Who knows if that is correct or not, but Novak does some serious stretching when he plays, and maybe it's taken a toll.

I think that Novak will definitely be a force next year, I'd be surprised if he matches his 2011, but one never knows.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I was defending Nadal from the people who act as though the WTF is the end all be all of tennis achievment. I don't agree that it is,and I also think that the Olympics are more special considering they are played once every 4 years,and you can't lose matches and still win it. I'm not surprised what I said went right over your head.

And no I don't think Nadal will ever win the WTF. The surface doesn't suit him,and he blew his chance to win it last year when he lost to Fed.

And in the reverse of what you said, people downplay the Olympics bc Nadal HAS won them. If Federer would have won the Olympics in 08 it would be all we ever hear about.

 

[BULLZ1LLA]

(Taken on face value, the Sir Charles Barkley's Indoor World Tour Finals is far less valuable than any of the 4 slams. However for Nadal specifically, now that he has 10 slams and the Career Grand Slam....if I had to choose between seeing Nadal win the US Open this year and winning the World Tour Finals, I would choose World Tour Finals. Of course, after Nadal has secured the World Tour Finals crown, I couldn't care less if he skips it in future years)

 

[bullfan]

And in the reverse of what you said, people downplay the Olympics bc Nadal HAS won them. If Federer would have won the Olympics in 08 it would be all we ever hear about.

BINGO!!!!! Federer wants to win the London Olympics Tennis sooo bad.

I do think that the Olympics is going to make for an interesting season next year. I doubt any player thinks they can win FO, W, and then the Olympics, so I think that it's going to be about what they want more. I think that Fed and Novak want Olympic gold so bad they can taste it, while Rafa isn't in that boat.

 

[Clarky21]

BINGO!!!!! Federer wants to win the London Olympics Tennis sooo bad.

I do think that the Olympics is going to make for an interesting season next year. I doubt any player thinks they can win FO, W, and then the Olympics, so I think that it's going to be about what they want more. I think that Fed and Novak want Olympic gold so bad they can taste it, while Rafa isn't in that boat.

Why not? If Nadal can do it,Cvac most certainly can.

 

[bullfan]

Why not? If Nadal can do it,Cvac most certainly can.

Maybe, maybe not, we'll know next year. And just because Nadal has done that doesn't mean that Novak can. That's a lame argument. You are arguing that Novak can do anything that Nadal can do, when that isn't what history has shown. It's more like anything that Novak can do, Nadal has done. You are writing as if it's the opposite.

 

[Clarky21]

Maybe, maybe not, we'll know next year. And just because Nadal has done that doesn't mean that Novak can. That's a lame argument. You are arguing that Novak can do anything that Nadal can do, when that isn't what history has shown. It's more like anything that Novak can do, Nadal has done. You are writing as if it's the opposite.

Anything Nadal can do or has done Cvac can do as well as it has been proven this year. I believe Cvac will most likely win all of those titles next year,completing the career golden slam in the process. Who is going to stop him? It's practically already in the record books it's so certain.

 

[BULLZ1LLA]

Anything Nadal can do or has done Cvac can do as well as it has been proven this year. I believe Cvac will most likely win all of those titles next year,completing the career golden slam in the process. Who is going to stop him? It's practically already in the record books it's so certain.

(Djokovic is not good enough to have 2 great years in a row, he will probably fall out of the top 2. You saw what happened after he broke through in 2008. This year was another breakthrough of sorts, and he just isn't good enough mentally to handle being the target/hunted)

 

[Clarky21]

(Djokovic is not good enough to have 2 great years in a row, he will probably fall out of the top 2. You saw what happened after he broke through in 2008. This year was another breakthrough of sorts, and he just isn't good enough mentally to handle being the target/hunted)

I think you are completely wrong about that,and mostly because he has zero competition. Even if you don't think he's that great,he's better than everyone else right now and will have no trouble racking up titles and slams because of it. Add that to the fact that the surfaces all play the same these days and he is going to dominate for a long time.

And Cvac is not going to fall out of the top 2 next year. He'll finish 2012 as number one just like he did this year,no question about it.

 

[jackson vile]

Even if he does not win WTF he still has a better year than Federer period!

 

[bullfan]

Anything Nadal can do or has done Cvac can do as well as it has been proven this year. I believe Cvac will most likely win all of those titles next year,completing the career golden slam in the process. Who is going to stop him? It's practically already in the record books it's so certain.

Well bully for you to know what is going to happen. I don't remember ANYONE mentioning that Novak would have the year he did in 2011.

Actually, you contradicted yourself. Novak hasn't proven to do anything that Rafa has done this year. Did Novak win his 10th slam after winning the career slam and Olympic GOld? That would be a big fat no.

There's no saying it won't happen, but your logic is completely faulty.

 

[bullfan]

I think you are completely wrong about that,and mostly because he has zero competition. Even if you don't think he's that great,he's better than everyone else right now and will have no trouble racking up titles and slams because of it. Add that to the fact that the surfaces all play the same these days and he is going to dominate for a long time.

And Cvac is not going to fall out of the top 2 next year. He'll finish 2012 as number one just like he did this year,no question about it.

I doubt Novak will fall out of top 2 next year, but don't know if he'll be number one after Wimbledon.

 

[Clarky21]

I doubt Novak will fall out of top 2 next year, but don't know if he'll be number one after Wimbledon.

Why wouldn't he be? There is nobody to take the top spot from him,so I think he will definitely finish the year at #1.

 

[bullfan]

Why wouldn't he be? There is nobody to take the top spot from him,so I think he will definitely finish the year at #1.

Well, who knows, but, Novak has a bazillion points to defend. If someone steps up for the year, he could be supplanted.

 

[BallistecMissile]

If Djokovic doesn't win the WTF, shouldn't he think about going to a bigger headsize? Maybe IG Radical OS? ;P