I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Lol will Tsitsipas help medvedevAnd the Mad Lad needs Tsitsipas to beat Nadal to make it.
?
If Zverev defeats Medvedev, Nadal is out of the ATP finals
- Thread starter Sport
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Meles
Bionic Poster
FRI, 15 NOV 2019Lol will Tsitsipas help medvedev
SINGLES ANDRE AGASSI / 02:00 PM
NADAL
VS
TSITSIPAS
SINGLES ANDRE AGASSI / 08:00 PM
MEDVEDEV
VS
ZVEREV
If Nadal wins then Medvedev knows he's out, he tanks to spite Rafa. If Nadal loses then of course Medvedev will beat Zverev in two sets. Mad Lad a master of TTW logic, so no way for Nadal to get out of Round Robin.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Depends on NadalFRI, 15 NOV 2019
SINGLES ANDRE AGASSI / 02:00 PM
NADAL
VS
TSITSIPAS
SINGLES ANDRE AGASSI / 08:00 PM
MEDVEDEV
VS
ZVEREV
If Nadal wins then Medvedev knows he's out, he tanks to spite Rafa. If Nadal loses then of course Medvedev will beat Zverev in two sets. Mad Lad a master of TTW logic, so no way for Nadal to get out of Round Robin.
Meles
Bionic Poster
LOL. Tsitsipas will tank for sure:Depends on Nadal
1. Gets rid of Mad Lad who he dislikes
2. Gives him a strong chance of playing Thiem for his first SF
JadeC
Hall of Fame
Tsitsipas is group winner. Tiebreak between Nadal and Zverev will be set ratio, then H2H. So Zverev will advance in second place. A Zverev win guarantees he qualifies regardless of the other match result.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
I would hope Nadal can win and Medvedev can win, but it's unlikely. It's simply too difficult to end year-end #1 against Djokovic, if Djokovic gets it, it's more than well deserved.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
So basically Djokovic MUST lose to Federer on the other side
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
who plays first on last day? Med vs Z or Nadal v Tsitsipas.
If Med plays first, it will be good for Nadal as Med is still with outside chance so he'll be motivated to win. If Med beats Z then Nadal will qualify with a win over Tsitsipas.
If Med-Zed is last in that case Med would not be interested if Nadal has already beaten Tsit.
And to make things more interesting, we can throw in ATP YE#1 scenarios. However interestingly Nadal winning and losing last RR has no direct influence on YE race.
If Med plays first, it will be good for Nadal as Med is still with outside chance so he'll be motivated to win. If Med beats Z then Nadal will qualify with a win over Tsitsipas.
If Med-Zed is last in that case Med would not be interested if Nadal has already beaten Tsit.
And to make things more interesting, we can throw in ATP YE#1 scenarios. However interestingly Nadal winning and losing last RR has no direct influence on YE race.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
Why can't GOAT simply beat Djokovic today and relieve us from some of these calculations? Vamos Federer.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
Just checked. Bad news is Nadal-Tsit is scheduled ahead of Med-Zed. It makes huge difference.
1. If Nadal wins against Tsit, Med would be out of tournament. He would have no motivation to beat Zed and in the likely scenario of Zed win, Nadal is out of WTF.
2. If Nadal loses to Tsit. Med would still have chance to make it to SF. He would be motivated to win against Z and in that case Zed might lose, but Nadal is out of WTF even before the match started.
I don't see Nadal making it ti SF.
Now it's all upto GOAT in other group. Hope he cleans Djokovic.
1. If Nadal wins against Tsit, Med would be out of tournament. He would have no motivation to beat Zed and in the likely scenario of Zed win, Nadal is out of WTF.
2. If Nadal loses to Tsit. Med would still have chance to make it to SF. He would be motivated to win against Z and in that case Zed might lose, but Nadal is out of WTF even before the match started.
I don't see Nadal making it ti SF.
Now it's all upto GOAT in other group. Hope he cleans Djokovic.
C
Chadalina
Guest
The only time H2H matters, no?
D
Deleted member 763691
Guest
Medvedev def. Zverev 64 61 in their only meeting of the year - Shanghai Final
D
Deleted member 763691
Guest
Well, so far Medvedev has played poorly under pressure.
So the less pressure on Medvedev, the better he will play
And how does Zverev respond to pressure? Not bad considering he won London last year, but he's horrendous at slams, and that's the ultimate pressure.....so Zverev is far from a mental giant.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Oh my gosh. All these different scenarios you guys are listing are making my head spin.
Lol I've never seen anything like it, let Federer hopefully defeat the Mummy so we can tear up the list
van_Loederen
Professional
it is not unfair as the 2 groups are not necessarily equally strong.
it's just somewhat random, but this doesn't seem to bother people when it comes to the soccer wch.
From your lips to Medvedev’s ears!FRI, 15 NOV 2019
SINGLES ANDRE AGASSI / 02:00 PM
NADAL
VS
TSITSIPAS
SINGLES ANDRE AGASSI / 08:00 PM
MEDVEDEV
VS
ZVEREV
If Nadal wins then Medvedev knows he's out, he tanks to spite Rafa. If Nadal loses then of course Medvedev will beat Zverev in two sets. Mad Lad a master of TTW logic, so no way for Nadal to get out of Round Robin.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
Thats true. Interestingly with the same performance, beating Tsit in 3rd rubber, he would be either #1 in group or #3 in group.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes. Nadal can only advance as the #1, not #2.
Djoko can regain the #1 ranking without outside help
van_Loederen
Professional
i was always thinking the same, but in the link to the ATP the OP gave, it's made clear that it's not a 3-way tie anymore if not all 3 players are tied in set percentage.I think you have skipped game percentage which comes before H2H in 3 player ties. See Point 4 below:
2019 ATP Finals – Singles - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Standings are determined by:
1) Number of wins;
2) Number of matches;
3) In two-players-ties, head-to-head results;
4) In three-players-ties, percentage of sets won, then percentage of games won, then head-to-head results;
5) ATP rankings
now i don't know if this interpretation of the rules was changed only this year or had been like that already before and they only improved the wording now.
one could check the YEC results of the last couple years. maybe that reveals it.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Are you sure? Wow that's actually very cool
That means we'd be guaranteed a Djokodal or a Fedal in semi AND one of the young gen in final.+ if Djoko manages to pass Fed, then it is simply the best possible scenario that he would need to beat Nadal for the #1.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Okay, then it makes sense that Nadal can only be 1st or 3rd.
I only remember one occurence where game percentage mattered. In 2009 Federer and Del Potro eliminated Murray this way. But I checked and they were all 3 tied in sets percentage, so no H2H could come into play anyway. Indeed, quite astonishingly all 6 Matches in that group went to 3 sets.
Last edited:
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
I have never seen a player winning 5 matches at the Tour Finals and losing the tournament.
by your logic he should be already packing his luggage after first match.
right, so the rules of this tournament were designed years ago in a way to unfavor Mr. Nadal?
just like the rules of Wimbledon were changed in 2001 in order to favor Djokovic seeding in 2018 and Federer seeding in 2019? having these particular players in mind?
van_Loederen
Professional
there are regularly teams already qualified after 2 games and can tank the last one.
JadeC
Hall of Fame
The doubles event this year has a game percentage scenario.
Scores Centre | Nitto ATP Finals | Tennis
Nitto ATP Finals live scores, results and schedule for the tournament at the Pala Alpitour in Turin.
www.nittoatpfinals.com
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
(change it to '14 November')
mightyjeditribble
Hall of Fame
You are wrong, in the current situation games won are irrelevant. If a two way tie is broken by sets won percentage in such a way that two players are still tied, H2H decides between those two.
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