Interesting Article "Why I Don’t Like to See Nadal At #1"

[BreakPoint]

Wow! Is this some kind of contest to see who hates whom more? :shock:

 

[danb]

Versus looking like a monkey trying to run down every tennis ball like their bananas? Grabbing his ass so he can give everyone a dirty sanchez?

Not even Nadal fans like Rafa grabbing his ass... The running is OK though - this is a sport.

What is this? Do you guys not read the whole thread? I have bashed both BP & danb...Go back and reread the thread before going into a hissy fit & jumping on me! Both those posters (BP & danb) are morons!

Man, my post was about Fed. I didn't call you names, please calm down. As a Rafa fan is annoying to hear again and again how Fed looks like a ballerina and Rafa looks like a monkey...
Anyway - I never insult people in this forums so I'd appreciate if you don't insult me either.

I hate Đoković and proud of it.

Joker is fine man - no reason to hate him. Not liking somebody is not the same with hating somebody. I hope you just don't like him ...

 

[vtmike]

Man, my post was about Fed. I didn't call you names, please calm down. As a Rafa fan is annoying to hear again and again how Fed looks like a ballerina and Rafa looks like a monkey...
Anyway - I never insult people in this forums so I'd appreciate if you don't insult me either.

Alright I shouldn't have...but on the other hand BOTH you & BP were acting a bunch of kids insulting these players...anyways sorry if I offended you...I was a little pissed off because a couple of posters were attacking me for no reason!

 

[Serve_Ace]

Of course....every single Nadal fan needs to sacrafice themselves for their God Nadal, by fighting for him, it doesn't matter if we'll never see him in person or he'll never know our names. vamos! nadal rokzors zomg

 

[veroniquem]

Of course....every single Nadal fan needs to sacrafice themselves for their God Nadal, by fighting for him, it doesn't matter if we'll never see him in person or he'll never know our names. vamos! nadal rokzors zomg

What do you mean "sacrifice themselves"? Apart from a little bit of my time, I don't "sacrifice" anything when I come here!

 

[Morrissey]

btw this was one of my posts in this same thread where I am crticizing BP,



You should go through the entire thread before making such assumptions!

and I guess it´s ok in your planet to go after Federer but when it´s Nadal you draw the line...Not once have I ever seen you go after someone who insults Federer!

You think I'm going to read all 22 pages to find that one time you actually defended Nadal? Half of the thread is all BP's posts. I don't need to torture myself sifting through his rubbish.

 

[Serve_Ace]

What do you mean "sacrifice themselves"? Apart from a little bit of my time, I don't "sacrifice" anything when I come here!

Gee, didn't notice that, I know you sacrafice all logical thinking when someone is "insulting" Nadal.

 

[Morrissey]

Of course....every single Nadal fan needs to sacrafice themselves for their God Nadal, by fighting for him, it doesn't matter if we'll never see him in person or he'll never know our names. vamos! nadal rokzors zomg

As opposed to the Federer fans that don't sacrifice themselves for him and the ones that jump ship and can't be his fan anymore because he doesn't dominate the tour no longer. Which one are you?

 

[Morrissey]

Wow! Is this some kind of contest to see who hates whom more? :shock:

If that's a contest I think you win all the time...and the most insane poster.

 

[danb]

Alright I shouldn't have...but on the other hand BOTH you & BP were acting a bunch of kids insulting these players...anyways sorry if I offended you...I was a little pissed off because a couple of posters were attacking me for no reason!

It's all fine dude.

 

[veroniquem]

Gee, didn't notice that, I know you sacrafice all logical thinking when someone is "insulting" Nadal.

I certainly don't think insulting Nadal is acceptable and fits in any logic at all.

 

[Serve_Ace]

As opposed to the Federer fans that don't sacrifice themselves for him and the ones that jump ship and can't be his fan anymore because he doesn't dominate the tour no longer. Which one are you?

I see a lot more Nadal fans being illogical and biased than Federer fans doing the same, now I'm not saying that some Federer fans aren't biased or illogical, but I see more Nadal fans being illogical and biased, there I said it because I knew you were going to ask that next.

 

[Serve_Ace]

I certainly don't think insulting Nadal is acceptable and fits in any logic at all.

Yeah? so you defend him to the death? What about when people insulting Federer? How come you don't defend him

 

[danb]

I see a lot more Nadal fans being illogical and biased than Federer fans doing the same, now I'm not saying that some Federer fans aren't biased or illogical, but I see more Nadal fans being illogical and biased, there I said it because I knew you were going to ask that next.

Let me guess: you are a unbiased Fed fan ....:twisted::twisted::twisted:

 

[veroniquem]

I see a lot more Nadal fans being illogical and biased than Federer fans doing the same, now I'm not saying that some Federer fans aren't biased or illogical, but I see more Nadal fans being illogical and biased, there I said it because I knew you were going to ask that next.

And the relevance to this thread is...? Saying that Nadal is not a worthy #1 is logical? And saying that Nadal is isn't? Rofl, your sense of logic is extremely skewed!

 

[Serve_Ace]

And the relevance to this thread is...? Saying that Nadal is not a worthy #1 is logical? And saying that Nadal is isn't? Rofl, your sense of logic is extremely skewed!

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying, what are you going to do about? Ban me, do it

 

[Serve_Ace]

Let me guess: you're unbiased Fed fan ....:twisted::twisted::twisted:

No I'm biased, because you caught me, I'm going to admit, I'm really biased, I'm ready to fight anyone who disses Federer. Bring it on, I don't get enough drama during the day, so I come on here picking a fight with everyone, who is against Federer, I'm ready for a challenge, throw it all at me, I want to hear every single insult against my hero.

 

[veroniquem]

Yeah? so you defend him to the death? What about when people insulting Federer? How come you don't defend him

Because I'm not a Fed fan. What is so shocking about defending your favorite player when he is unjustly attacked? You defend someone you like, it's like defending a friend that's being discriminated against but maybe you don't defend your friends either :???:

 

[veroniquem]

No I'm biased, because you caught me, I'm going to admit, I'm really biased, I'm ready to fight anyone who disses Federer. Bring it on, I don't get enough drama during the day, so I come on here picking a fight with everyone, who is against Federer, I'm ready for a challenge, throw it all at me, I want to hear every single insult against my hero.

That's certainly what you're doing right now.

 

[danb]

No I'm biased, because you caught me, I'm going to admit, I'm really biased, I'm ready to fight anyone who disses Federer. Bring it on, I don't get enough drama during the day, so I come on here picking a fight with everyone, who is against Federer, I'm ready for a challenge, throw it all at me, I want to hear every single insult against my hero.

You are funny. I like that. Fed is a great player - I just like Rafa and Pete more. How about that?

 

[Serve_Ace]

That's certainly what you're doing right now.

Good, I'm glad that my intentions are clear and that everyone knows that's what I'm doing, and for anyone who still doesn't know veroniquem just announced it so awesome.

 

[Serve_Ace]

Because I'm not a Fed fan. What is so shocking about defending your favorite player when he is unjustly attacked? You defend someone you like, it's like defending a friend that's being discriminated against but maybe you don't defend your friends either :???:

Ok, first, being a friend means that you actually have meet the person, and talked to them personally and you know their personality, You know nothing of Nadal outside of interviews and tennis matches. Totally different things....favortie player, and a friend....

 

[Serve_Ace]

You are funny. I like that. Fed is a great player - I just like Rafa and Pete more. How about that?

It's fine with me honestly.

 

[Morrissey]

I see a lot more Nadal fans being illogical and biased than Federer fans doing the same.

Then you obviously weren't in this forum from 2004-2007.

 

[Serve_Ace]

Then you obviously weren't in this forum from 2004-2007.

I know, I just started playing tennis at 12 years old, those were the good days, no running home after practice and eagerly checking if anyone posted anything in my thread in the Tennis Tips/Instruction section. it's a real shame that I wasn't around at that time period.

 

[P_Agony]

He didn't call Nadal a ballerina but this is worse IMO. You obviously turn a blind eye on any insults directed at Nadal but once someone says anything remotely bad about Federer you are quick to react.

I didn't turn a blind eye, I just didn't read every single post in this thread. It's possible I have missed posts that insult Nadal. If there are any then that's just as wrong as insult posts about Federer or any other player for that matter. Neither Federer, Nadal or any other player deserves those insults - they work too hard for that.

 

[veroniquem]

Ok, first, being a friend means that you actually have meet the person, and talked to them personally and you know their personality, You know nothing of Nadal outside of interviews and tennis matches. Totally different things....favortie player, and a friend....

I know him very well as a player as I watch all his matches. I'm defending him as a player here. What did you think I was doing?

 

[VamosRafa]

This thread was somewhat interesting until it got hijacked about 10 pages ago. IMO, personal attacks are pointless, tedious to read and detract from the overall discussion. Guess I'll go back to the Nadal haircut thread for a more substantive discussion.

 

[vtmike]

You think I'm going to read all 22 pages to find that one time you actually defended Nadal? Half of the thread is all BP's posts. I don't need to torture myself sifting through his rubbish.

I sifted through the 24 pages or so...but not once did I see you defending Federer!... nor in any other thread for that matter...

 

[BreakPoint]

You think I'm going to read all 22 pages to find that one time you actually defended Nadal? Half of the thread is all BP's posts. I don't need to torture myself sifting through his rubbish.

Then I guess you're not very good at math because there are probably at least a half dozen people here that have more posts in this thread than I do. :-?

And if you don't like to read my posts then why don't you just put me on your ignore list? Then I wouldn't have to read your ignorant responses. Problem solved.

 

[Bud]

I'm bashing Fed in every thread? That's news to me! I've never called any players names (animal or otherwise), I don't play that kind of games. There are a lot of things one can criticize but there is a huge difference between criticizing and insulting. One is civilized, the other is not.
(PS look at the post above mine if the difference is still not completely clear to you...)

Then you should learn to reread your posts if you think you do not insult players. For someone who claims to have a kid, your posts are extremely immature. Unfortunate for your kid.

STOP Twisting! Did I say you insult Fed in every thread? NO! I said you are guilty of not showing a sense of outrage towards others who insult Federer! You accused me of the same thing when infact I did show a sense of outrage towards BP for insulting Nadal!! Give me an example where you showed a sense of outrage towards someone who insulted Fed...

What are you, a lawyer??

Lol! are you serious? She has to feign outrage over others' disrespect of Federer? :lol::lol:

 

[Bud]

Wow! Is this some kind of contest to see who hates whom more? :shock:

Lol! See what you started?!

:grin:

 

[All-rounder]

I see the usual suspects are arguing, things never change its amazing

 

[vtmike]

Lol! are you serious? She has to feign outrage over others' disrespect of Federer? :lol::lol:

Way to twist things around bud...

 

[Bud]

Way to twist things around bud...

The posts are there for all to see

 

[vtmike]

The posts are there for all to see

Yes they are! So you don't really need to cherry pick some to put your twist on it!

 

[Serve_Ace]

I know him very well as a player as I watch all his matches. I'm defending him as a player here. What did you think I was doing?

Uh you just said you were defending him like a friend, because you said, whats wrong with defending your friend.....

 

[Deleted member 3771]

I got this article on a weekly newsletter Im suscribed to, and I though it would be nice to post it up here and see what you guys think about it. Besides the butt-picking and the extra time he likes to take between points, I´ve never been a fan of Nadal´s style of play, but I wasnt able to really put my finger on what I didnt like about it. I think this article sums it up really well:

"""Why I Don’t Like to See Nadal At #1
Rafael Nadal has again won the final against Novak Djokovic, this time in Rome. Nadal already won in Monte Carlo against Djokovic and is of course the current #1 player in the world.

But I don’t like to see him there. It’s not that he doesn’t deserve his #1 spot.

He does, but not because he beats his opponents with better tennis, but because his opponents beat themselves.

I would like to see the best player in the world to be a better player than his opponents.

He should be able to attack and exploit all types of weakness and be able to win points in a variety of ways. Roger Federer is the perfect example of what a #1 player in the world should play like.

Roger Federer is able to play any tactic he wants and he can play any shot he wants - and of course he is a master of all of them.

But Rafael Nadal plays different tennis.

The tie-break of the first set in the Rome 2009 final is a great example how Nadal plays and how he wins. I’ll break it down shot by shot so that you can see what goes on…

I’ll look for two major things: what is the INTENTION of each player for each shot they play: is it offense or neutralizing?

Offensive shots mean, that the player is looking to hurt the opponent or finish the point. A player can hurt his opponent with a fast shot, with an accurate shot or looking to make a point.

Neutralizing shots on the other hand are NOT played to win a point directly. They are played to PREVENT the opponent from attacking and to come back from defensive situations.

This can show us who is looking to win points and who is looking to keep the ball in play.

I will also look at who has achieved a better situation in the ball exchange before the last shot - whether it was won or lost. This shows us who can better outplay his opponent and gain advantage in the point.

There were two points in the tie-break which included just the serve and a missed return so I we cannot analyze them in more detail…



0:0 Djokovic serves, Nadal misses a return
1:0 Nadal played 7 neutralizing shots (N) and 1 offensive (O), Djokovic 4 N, 4 O. In better position at the last shot: Djokovic
1:1 Nadal serves, Djokovic misses a return
1:2 Nadal 5 N, 0 O, Djokovic 3 N, 3 O. In better position - Djokovic
1:3 Nadal 2 N, 0 O, Djokovic 0 N, 2 O. In better position - Djokovic
2:3 Nadal 1 N, 1 O, Djokovic 2 N, 1 O. In better position - Nadal
2:4 Nadal 0 N, 3 O, Djokovic 2 N, 1 O. In better position - Nadal
2:5 Nadal 1 N, 1 O, Djokovic 0 N, 1 O. In better position - Djokovic
2:6 Nadal 1 N, 0 O, Djokovic 0 N, 2 O. In better position - Djokovic

Here’s what we can see from this analysis:

Nadal played 6 offensive shots and 17 neutralizing shots and Djokovic played 14 offensive shots and 11 neutralizing shots.

In the 7 points where the players rallied, Nadal played offensive shots in only 4 points. In the same 7 points, Djokovic ended up in a better position in the court 5 times but made unforced errors and missed the final shot.

Djokovic did not make tactical mistakes on those situations since he was inside the court and Nadal was far behind the baseline. It was correct for Djokovic to attack, but the missed the shot. The tactic was correct but the execution let him down.

(If you analyze your mistakes, always check whether you missed because the tactic was not correct or whether the execution was not good enough.)

This tie-break analysis is a great example of how Nadal wins matches and it applies to most matches he plays.

Nadal is not really a better player, he doesn’t really outplay Djokovic, Murray or Federer, but it’s their mistakes that win Nadal more points and he ENDS up winning.

And I’d like to see the number 1 player in the world to play tennis that wins points instead of profiting from unforced errors of his opponents.

So why is Nadal #1?

Because Djokovic, Federer and Murray MISS TOO MANY SHORT BALLS!

They are typically better in ball exchanges and gain advantage in the point but are unable to finish the point. Yes, Nadal passes them sometimes but they shouldn’t miss so many short balls.

Even if Nadal passes them here and there, these 3 guys can still beat Nadal if they would be deadlier on those short balls - like Agassi was for example.

I actually believe that Djokovic, Murray and Federer don’t practice finishing shots from inside the court or even close to the service line because they think they can already make these shots.

The reality is different though; just take a look at the above tie-break video and note what kind of shots Djokovic missed…

Then compare this with the tie-break that Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi played when they were in their prime. No unforced errors in the whole tie break and most points were won by someone!



So what are your thoughts? Do you think Nadal is a good example of the best tennis player in the world?"""

Here´s the link:http://www.tennisthoughts.com/2009/05/05/why-i-dont-like-to-see-nadal-at-1/

 

[Ronny]

Wow! Is this some kind of contest to see who hates whom more? :shock:

no, they're just showing how much of an idiot ur posts make u look.

 

[LurkingGod]

This thread was somewhat interesting until it got hijacked about 10 pages ago. IMO, personal attacks are pointless, tedious to read and detract from the overall discussion. Guess I'll go back to the Nadal haircut thread for a more substantive discussion.

You're right. We could've had a good discussion over the article. I don't know why every thread about Nadal and Fed has turned into warzones. I'm risking my life posting here. Better get a steel helmet and a bulletproof jacket!

 

[danb]

You're right. We could've had a good discussion over the article. I don't know why every thread about Nadal and Fed has turned into warzones. I'm risking my life posting here. Better get a steel helmet and a bulletproof jacket!

Everybody run for the hills!
Count to 10, calm down and let's get back to the article.
Some like the "first strike" type of tennis and that is what Fed plays. Others are entertained by anything (within the rules) that can win a point. I like Nadal 'cause he is athletic and playing defense is not second hand tennis. Play with the tools you have. Players in this sport will become increasingly athletic and we will see better and better defense strategies. Nadal hits a few balls to "gas out" the other guy enough to squeeze an "unforced error" (he forces the error actually) or he opens the court to deliver his own winner. And at AO he hit more winners than unforced errors.

 

[Leonidas]

why i dont like to see people like you posting stupid threads like this? (answering the title of thid thread)

 

[BreakPoint]

no, they're just showing how much of an idiot ur posts make u look.

Well, I'd rather just "look" like an idiot than actually BE one such as yourself.

People who have no knowledge like yourself really shouldn't be posting. Tell us, how many tournaments have you ever played in with a wood racquet? None? Then how the heck would you have any idea of what you're talking about?

 

[LurkingGod]

Everybody run for the hills!
Count to 10, calm down and let's get back to the article.
Some like the "first strike" type of tennis and that is what Fed plays. Others are entertained by anything (within the rules) that can win a point. I like Nadal 'cause he is athletic and playing defense is not second hand tennis. Play with the tools you have. Players in this sport will become increasingly athletic and we will see better and better defense strategies. Nadal hits a few balls to "gas out" the other guy enough to squeeze an "unforced error" (he forces the error actually) or he opens the court to deliver his own winner. And at AO he hit more winners than unforced errors.

I agree. To be honest I used to hate clay season with passion. All those 'rallies til the cows come home or til someone misses the shot' always put me to sleep. IF Nadal played that type of tennis I'd be the first one to say so. The fact that someone like me ENJOY Nadal's style of play means he has more to his game than pushing the balls back.

I think Nadal's distractors miss the point when they say he wins the match by waiting for the opponent to hit UEs. To me what he does is forcing his opponent to hit MORE WINNERS because one winner isn't gonna be enough to win a point from him. And when the right time come for Nadal to hit a winner himself it's always be just as good as everyone else does if not better. I for one would never get bored of that.

The article is very flawed and biased to start with. Why used only one tie-break to criticise someone's game when the stat of the whole match would shown that Nadal hit only 1 less winner than Djokovic but a lot less UEs?

 

[Ronny]

Well, I'd rather just "look" like an idiot than actually BE one such as yourself.

People who have no knowledge like yourself really shouldn't be posting. Tell us, how many tournaments have you ever played in with a wood racquet? None? Then how the heck would you have any idea of what you're talking about?

i havent played any tournies with wooden racquets, but i know that the atp won't change back to it as it is the yr 2009 not bloody 1969, IDIOT.

 

[OddJack]

I agree. To be honest I used to hate clay season with passion. All those 'rallies til the cows come home or til someone misses the shot' always put me to sleep. IF Nadal played that type of tennis I'd be the first one to say so. The fact that someone like me ENJOY Nadal's style of play means he has more to his game than pushing the balls back.

I think Nadal's distractors miss the point when they say he wins the match by waiting for the opponent to hit UEs. To me what he does is forcing his opponent to hit MORE WINNERS because one winner isn't gonna be enough to win a point from him. And when the right time come for Nadal to hit a winner himself it's always be just as good as everyone else does if not better. I for one would never get bored of that.

The article is very flawed and biased to start with. Why used only one tie-break to criticise someone's game when the stat of the whole match would shown that Nadal hit only 1 less winner than Djokovic but a lot less UEs?

Are you sober>? A winner by definition means the point is over. You are the one missing the point. It's obvious he goes for safe shots and waits to draw UEs. High margin for error is the name of his bible dude. Look at the stats, such as his last matches with djoker, in all of them he hit less winners and less UEs. He is the worlds best pusher and grinder right now and its how he wins them. This is also why he has to grind, because he receives solid but risky shots and then he responds with a safe push.

 

[danb]

Are you sober>? A winner by definition means the point is over. You are the one missing the point. It's obvious he goes for safe shots and waits to draw UEs. High margin for error is the name of his bible dude. Look at the stats, such as his last matches with djoker, in all of them he hit less winners and less UEs. He is the worlds best pusher and grinder right now and its how he wins them.

Tennis is a sport so running is part of the game.If Nadal pushes the ball and beats Fed - Fed is really sloppy (but actually Fed is a great player)...
Rafa is good because he plays within himself and he has the heart and ambition to run down every ball.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Are you sober>? A winner by definition means the point is over. You are the one missing the point. It's obvious he goes for safe shots and waits to draw UEs. High margin for error is the name of his bible dude. Look at the stats, such as his last matches with djoker, in all of them he hit less winners and less UEs. He is the worlds best pusher and grinder right now and its how he wins them. This is also why he has to grind, because he receives solid but risky shots and then he responds with a safe push.

This post is brought to you by.

 

[LurkingGod]

Are you sober>? A winner by definition means the point is over. You are the one missing the point. It's obvious he goes for safe shots and waits to draw UEs. High margin for error is the name of his bible dude. Look at the stats, such as his last matches with djoker, in all of them he hit less winners and less UEs. He is the worlds best pusher and grinder right now and its how he wins them. This is also why he has to grind, because he receives solid but risky shots and then he responds with a safe push.

No, you're the one who's missing my point. Nadal often returned what could have been clean winners against most players on tour. Even Verdasco said he had to hit 3 winners against Nadal to win a point. You'd prefer to see a clear winner when someone hit the first strike but to me it's more exciting to see Nadal gets that ball back and force his opponent to come up with a better shot again and again.

And if I remember correctly his last match with Djoko he hit ONE less winner, that hardly proves your point.

 

[OddJack]

Tennis is a sport so running is part of the game.If Nadal pushes the ball and beats Fed - Fed is really sloppy (but actually Fed is a great player)...
Rafa is good because he play within himself and he has the heart and ambition to run down every ball.

Nothing wrong with running or his ambitions or his victories, but we are talking about how he does it here.
If you ask me the last player he wants to play against is Murray. If Murray was as good a pantomime as Nadal is he would own Nadal, he just needs more mental strength, grow a beard, long hair and groaning and roaring like he deos.