Is there a flexible, MP, 18x20, under 11.8oz, with some power?

I'm currently looking at the ProKennex Black Ace 98 as it appears to be the closest match. I'm currently using the YT Radical MP and want more stability and a little more power. Flexibility and stability would be the most important characteristics to me. I prefer frames that can still be purchased new regardless of it being a current model. What would you guys recommend?
 

Hominator

Hall of Fame
Volkl PB10 Light and Head Youtek Prestige MP come to mind, but I'm not sure whether either frame is flexible enough for you.
 
While I get wrist or elbow pains on occasions (most likely poor technique) I like how stable a flexible racquet feels.

I did not like the YT Prestige MP when I demoed.
 

Ennismt

Rookie
I would give the ProKennex Black Ace 93 a try in addition to the 98. The BA98 was significantly different than the 93, to me. The 93 is comparable to the Prestige as the Prestige has 95" head that is not too much larger. I play both the BA93 and Prestige and have no problem going back and forth between head sizes. I found the BA93 to be more solid than the BA98. Both are flexible.
 

hrstrat57

Hall of Fame
I'm currently looking at the ProKennex Black Ace 98 as it appears to be the closest match. I'm currently using the YT Radical MP and want more stability and a little more power. Flexibility and stability would be the most important characteristics to me. I prefer frames that can still be purchased new regardless of it being a current model. What would you guys recommend?

A head prostock frame would probably be the ticket for you if you want to keep the weight down.

Build up to your desired specs from a hairpin.....won't be cheap tho...I was considering it until I went with 2 Youtek Prestige MP matched and seq serial nos via TW telephone order.

Bumped em up a bit with leather grips and a bit of lead at 3/9....I am just under 12 oz.....and very happy, my first ever Head chinese frames.

I could recommend older Head austrian frames but you indicate you want new, which leads me to think prostock for you.

If you are interested there are a few Head pro stock experts here that could chime in with recco on exactly what you need.....and perhaps how to get it.

Be ready to open up your wallet a bit tho....probably $800 or so for 2 frames.

Good luck with your quest.
 
What about adding weight (and perhaps changing balance) to your Radical MP? I'm actually about to take two YT Radical MP frames to **** to try to recreate the balance and weight of my PB10 Mid.
 
Thanks for all of the input so far guys. I should also state that the Radicals have been modified to weigh in at 11.7 and 4pts head light. I've made a lot of adjustments to these but never got the punch or stability I was looking for. I use a hybrid of Head RIP Control 16 M/Forten Sweet 16 C in the mid-tension range. I really cannot see spending more than $200 per racquet so pro stock will be out for now.
 

olliess

Semi-Pro
While I get wrist or elbow pains on occasions (most likely poor technique) I like how stable a flexible racquet feels.

I did not like the YT Prestige MP when I demoed.

If it was the stiffness of the YT, you might also try the Microgel Prestige MP as it feels noticeably softer (to me). But yeah I second the ideas of trying weighting of your existing Radical first.
 
Another idea might be the Bio 300 Tour.

I spent some time hitting with a few of the new Dunlops yesterday and will probably hit with the 300 Tour again tonight. But, it didn't feel any softer than a YT Prestige MP, tho...
 

drak

Hall of Fame
BB London is a very nice frame, Flex is about 65 and I find it comfortable, nice power/control blend IMO. Or Rabbit's new holy grail the lighter Aerostorm GT, see his thread for a ton of comments.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
I say just weight the radical some if all you want is more power and stability, because those two traits can both be increased by adding weight at the 3 and 9.
 

mctennis

Legend
$800 for two frames? I'm sorry that's crazy for a non touring player to pay. There's GOT to be a better cheaper solution.
 

Figjam

Banned
$800 for two frames? I'm sorry that's crazy for a non touring player to pay. There's GOT to be a better cheaper solution.

if you are reffering to my suggestion, you numbers are off, please check your facts.
Again people spend tons of money trying different rackets, if you found 2 rackets that were perfect for you and never need/wanted to buy differnet ones in the future youd be saving money no??? Pros dont switch every year why should a crappy rec player??
 

hrstrat57

Hall of Fame
$800 for two frames? I'm sorry that's crazy for a non touring player to pay. There's GOT to be a better cheaper solution.

Agree....which is why I didn't do it.

We have a lot of folks on here that have tho.....I was skeptical of the Head Youtek MP China frame but set up properly it is outstanding.

I have a pro stock frame and have many Austrian 18x20 frames too and the China frames I recently received from TW are more than adequate for me.

I was a big Austrian racquet snob. No more.

As for the OP it sounds to me like he would be most happy with an older Radical L5 Austrian frame....perhaps the TT models or a ti Radical MP properly set up....but he said he wants new. Not sure the L4 China made radical of any model is going to give him what he wants.

I have no experience with other brands recently but I believe Head has a gap between the Youtek Prestige MP (L6) and the Youtek Radical MP (L4)

This is not the first poster ....or recent thread where the topic is discussed where the OP seems trapped between the Youtek (or Microgel) MP Prestige and the MP Radical.

Pro stock fills the gap probably but you need a very large wallet. My wallet is not as large as it has been in the past unfortunately so I went retail and happily have no regrets.
 

hrstrat57

Hall of Fame
if you are reffering to my suggestion, you numbers are off, please check your facts.
Again people spend tons of money trying different rackets, if you found 2 rackets that were perfect for you and never need/wanted to buy differnet ones in the future youd be saving money no??? Pros dont switch every year why should a crappy rec player??

Ha ha, he was yelling at me I think....and he was right.

But you bring up a good point. If I had gone to a fitter and bought 2 Head pro stock frames a couple of years ago perhaps that might have ended my silly quest to find 2 perfectly matched frames right there.

Did I spend more than $800 chasing my tail hunting frames in pro shops and on the big auction site? I would have to add it up but maybe.

I ended the quest luckily by finally grabbing 2 retail sticks from the same batch and matched by TW. $400 and done.....without question I should have done that before!

Thanks to the wise ones on this forum that suggested the retail frames!

Now I am selling unused frames for the most part, tho I did buy another thrift store racquet yesterday (wilson pro staff classic 4.2 $14 couldn't resist)

Bit of a thread poach with apologies, back to the OP's query.....
 

mctennis

Legend
if you are reffering to my suggestion, you numbers are off, please check your facts.
Again people spend tons of money trying different rackets, if you found 2 rackets that were perfect for you and never need/wanted to buy differnet ones in the future youd be saving money no??? Pros dont switch every year why should a crappy rec player??

That's why you demo, demo, demo. Lots of people do exactly like you say here. Buy this one and buy that one spending a ton of money on racquets that do not help them. However, there's a money point to this and just to spend that type of money on a rec player to MAYBE have a racquet that helps then to find out it doesn't is a waste of money. That's my point. I've found the racquets that suit my game without spending $800 for the pair AND having them customized as well. It was a total of $70 to have them both weighted at about 14oz and balanced the same. Once you get into the crazy priced stuff you're going to take a bath trying to sell them and not take a butt whipping. It's bad enough now buying one at $200 and selling it at $80 three months later from what see here on the site. Advantage racquets is the closest 'custom" racquet out there without having to pay $400 each for them. Then when you try and sell it there's an issue about being too customized to where you can't sell it. Everyone s looking for the magic racquet to take away their faults and make them a better player. Perhaps it's more in the technique and not the racquet. It's not the arrow it's the indian theory. Maybe a few lessons with a club pro would help in the long run and help them prolong their tennis playing years. Just my opinion on this issue. To each their own. But a fool and his money.......
 
OP seems trapped between the Youtek (or Microgel) MP Prestige and the MP Radical.

This is an accurate statement. I am open to other brands and discontinued models as long as they can still be purchased new from somewhere reputable. I've been playing with the radical line for over 10 years now and feel it might be time for a change.
 

Figjam

Banned
That's why you demo, demo, demo. Lots of people do exactly like you say here. Buy this one and buy that one spending a ton of money on racquets that do not help them. However, there's a money point to this and just to spend that type of money on a rec player to MAYBE have a racquet that helps then to find out it doesn't is a waste of money. That's my point. I've found the racquets that suit my game without spending $800 for the pair AND having them customized as well. It was a total of $70 to have them both weighted at about 14oz and balanced the same. Once you get into the crazy priced stuff you're going to take a bath trying to sell them and not take a butt whipping. It's bad enough now buying one at $200 and selling it at $80 three months later from what see here on the site. Advantage racquets is the closest 'custom" racquet out there without having to pay $400 each for them. Then when you try and sell it there's an issue about being too customized to where you can't sell it. Everyone s looking for the magic racquet to take away their faults and make them a better player. Perhaps it's more in the technique and not the racquet. It's not the arrow it's the indian theory. Maybe a few lessons with a club pro would help in the long run and help them prolong their tennis playing years. Just my opinion on this issue. To each their own. But a fool and his money.......

Yeah but you know what??? Despite the whining, people actually LIKE buying and trying new stuff. They just have to rationalize it. I rarely sell and old racket, I have 3 237.2 im not using, but I dont really want to sell them.
I tune my own rackets so thats not an issue. Sure no one WANTS to pay alot, but somethings you just gotta pay up. You want it, you know you want it, so stop whining already, you ARE going to spend that much anyway, whether you do it over time or at once, its like a bandaid: one move RIGHT OFF!!
 

HiroProtagonist

Professional
Whats odd is when I saw the title of this thread the racquet that immediately popped into my head was the YTK Rad MP.

To me it has everything you are looking for, the only other racquet close is the a fore mentioned BA98, but I find it highly unlikely that it has more power than the Rad MP, which I found to be very powerful for a 18x20 SP, in fact the only more powerful stick, I've played w/ a closed pattern was the BLX 6.1 95, but that has too much weight for your preference.

So my suggestion is experiment w/ more weight, try making it more HL so you can get more head speed, or more weight at 9&3 and counter balance in the handle.

Lastly try somw different strings, I see that you are using Head RIP control, that is a notoriously low powered string, try out some multi's, or a power poly w/ multi hybrid, such as PS energy or Tourna BHB w/ Quasi-gut or Alpha gut 2K.
 

Hominator

Hall of Fame
You may also want to check out a custom Vantage frame. Never played with one, but they seem to get good reviews on this board. Specifically, it looks like a Vantage 231 is what you would be looking for. 63RA, 18x20, 95 sq. in. head size, and 11.4 ounces. I believe you can even customize the weight and balance to your liking.
 
You may also want to check out a custom Vantage frame. Never played with one, but they seem to get good reviews on this board. Specifically, it looks like a Vantage 231 is what you would be looking for. 63RA, 18x20, 95 sq. in. head size, and 11.4 ounces. I believe you can even customize the weight and balance to your liking.

I have demoed the Vantage 231 that you mention. It was a pretty sweet racquet, but again I find it difficult to spend more than $200 for a racquet, so I never bit because I would need at least two of them.
 

hrstrat57

Hall of Fame
IMO the best non prostock Head 18x20 frame for customization is the ti Radical MP. If you are patient they can still be found new adding a leather grip and the equiv amount of lead (about 6 g) at 3/9 in the hoop is a great starting point. They are Austrian made, very light stock and thus super high quality/ feel yet very customizable.

Pick one up cheap on the big auction site and play around with customizing.....if you like what is delivered then you can patiently wait for a couple of NOS frames to pop up which they do often.

The TT Radical tours are fantastic too but are much heavier stock = thus reducing the ability for customization before you exceed what you want the frame to weigh.

Sticking to discussing Radicals IMHO the best Radical MP of the entire run is the Austrian made L5 i Radical. I recently was lucky enough to pick up a second one. My 2 are the only I have ever seen in person and they play and feel/flex identical......and they are fabulous. I will never part with them. I found the 2nd one after I bought the matched set of retail Youtek Prestige MP from TW.

All of these Radical frames I mention are L5 which is a power level missing from the Head line up. I don't believe the Radical got an L4 rating until the i Radical production shifted to China.

So after a 2 year long quest to find a mate for my i Prestige MP glossy paint I now am lucky enough to own 2 pair of perfectly matched frames that I can play very well with.

Be patient and don't get frustrated......you can do this.

I can't comment on other brands....but I almost bought a matched set of Redondo MP's a few months ago.....I am glad I stayed the course with Head....it is what I have come to know best.....sounds like that is true for you too!

Again, good luck with it!
 
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KMV

New User
Some of the most flexible MP racquets (under 11.8) that i have played with are:
1. Prince EXO3 Rebel tour (95 sq in though)
2. Head Radical MP or Pro

Head prestige (Pro or MP) racquets are slightly stiffer than these but then also more stable. U shud demo these..
 

BagelMe

Semi-Pro
I'm currently looking at the ProKennex Black Ace 98 as it appears to be the closest match. I'm currently using the YT Radical MP and want more stability and a little more power. Flexibility and stability would be the most important characteristics to me. I prefer frames that can still be purchased new regardless of it being a current model. What would you guys recommend?

My recommendation to you is either lead up your Rad MP, or CAP it and put silicon in the handle. I did the second option and its really working out great. The racket is much more stable, but not too stiff, and I have better control. Also you can try lowering your tension by 1~2 lbs might help with power.

I CAPPED my YT radical and put .5 oz of silicon in the handle and its not too heavy, but I'm not sure if it's under 11.8 (probably is though)
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
I'm currently looking at the ProKennex Black Ace 98 as it appears to be the closest match. I'm currently using the YT Radical MP and want more stability and a little more power. Flexibility and stability would be the most important characteristics to me. I prefer frames that can still be purchased new regardless of it being a current model. What would you guys recommend?

Yonex RDiS 200
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Yonex_RDiS_200_Midplus/descpageRCYONEX-IS200.html

Yonex RDiS 200 Lite
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Yonex_RDiS_200_Lite_Midplus/descpageRCYONEX-IS200L.html
 

olliess

Semi-Pro
Thanks for all of the input so far guys. I should also state that the Radicals have been modified to weigh in at 11.7 and 4pts head light. I've made a lot of adjustments to these but never got the punch or stability I was looking for.

Your goals are tough to meet. You want an MP racquet with a limited weight and low stiffness that nevertheless gives more punch and stability.

The Radical (particularly the LM) already has quite high twistweight for an MP -- clearly more than many heavier racquets such as the Prestige. The power is also quite high for such a flexible racquet. Both are further improved by the weighting you have already added.

To get more stability without more weight, you could change the geometry and switch to an OS (the real advantage of an OS, e.g. the LM Radical OS, which has higher stock twistweight than the K Pro Staff). To get more power without more weight, you could also go to an OS or look for more stiffness.

Tried OS lately?
 

Tennisguy777

Professional
You might like Aerogel 4D 300 tour, might have to lead it up but it does have a soft feel a lot softer than my radicals and they're really cheap now and can be bought new.
 

KMV

New User
To get more stability without more weight, you could change the geometry and switch to an OS (the real advantage of an OS, e.g. the LM Radical OS, which has higher stock twistweight than the K Pro Staff). To get more power without more weight, you could also go to an OS or look for more stiffness.

Tried OS lately?

The problem with an OS is - while it is certain to give more power, it will reduce the stability signigicantly. With Radical OS in particular, with the low flex, ~110 SQ in head --> lots of twisting and torsion..

@Secon serve --> Did you try lowering the tension?
 

olliess

Semi-Pro
The problem with an OS is - while it is certain to give more power, it will reduce the stability signigicantly. With Radical OS in particular, with the low flex, ~110 SQ in head --> lots of twisting and torsion..

I suppose I don't understand your assertion. Brody (1979) discusses how Howard Head's oversized Prince racquet achieved a huge increase in stability -- by moving the mass outward from the twisting axis (since the moment of inertia scales as Mr^2). This is the opposite approach from Wilson's PWS, which increases M while keeping r^2 the same.

If you hit the stringbed way off center at a point where you would have shanked on a midsize racquet head, then ok, sure, there will be lots of twisting.
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure what to say here for the OP.

A flexible middle-weight frame will have a limited potential for power. Less flex brings less pop at contact and lower weight can greatly diminish a racquet's plow-through. Personally, I find that a softer racquet only feels more stable when it's heavy. For perspective, one of my favorite frames is the 13.0 oz. flexible Prince NXG mid, but I also love the Volkl C10.

SecondServe, I think you may need to demo a few different racquets before you make many assumptions. In my experience, string patterns account for only a tiny portion of a racquet's performance. Be careful not to write off a potentially attractive demo just because it's maybe a 16x18 or 16x19.

Ever tried a 12+ oz. racquet that's also really head-light? A flexible option with that sort of weight and balance may be just the ticket for you. Your Radical is only a couple of points head-light, but a heavier (more stable!) frame may be potentially easier to handle for you. Aside from your quick mention of "not liking" a Prestige that you tried, give us a little more info if you can in terms of what's been good or bad about different stuff you've sampled.
 

EKnee08

Professional
What about adding weight (and perhaps changing balance) to your Radical MP? I'm actually about to take two YT Radical MP frames to **** to try to recreate the balance and weight of my PB10 Mid.

Agreed. I recently did this to my Youtek Radical MPs with ****. A good idea!

New specs:
Unstrung: New wgt 315 gms or 11.11 unstrung
31.4 cm bal pt so approx 8-9 pts hl b/c 1/8 inch is 1 pt headlight (orig. 325mm or. 32.5Cm or 12.795 in)
Strung w/ vibration dampener and tournagrip: SW=334; wgt= 339.5 (11.9755 oz); bal. =32cm (8 pts hl)
 

EKnee08

Professional
IMO the best non prostock Head 18x20 frame for customization is the ti Radical MP. If you are patient they can still be found new adding a leather grip and the equiv amount of lead (about 6 g) at 3/9 in the hoop is a great starting point. They are Austrian made, very light stock and thus super high quality/ feel yet very customizable.

Pick one up cheap on the big auction site and play around with customizing.....if you like what is delivered then you can patiently wait for a couple of NOS frames to pop up which they do often.

The TT Radical tours are fantastic too but are much heavier stock = thus reducing the ability for customization before you exceed what you want the frame to weigh.

Sticking to discussing Radicals IMHO the best Radical MP of the entire run is the Austrian made L5 i Radical. I recently was lucky enough to pick up a second one. My 2 are the only I have ever seen in person and they play and feel/flex identical......and they are fabulous. I will never part with them. I found the 2nd one after I bought the matched set of retail Youtek Prestige MP from TW.

All of these Radical frames I mention are L5 which is a power level missing from the Head line up. I don't believe the Radical got an L4 rating until the i Radical production shifted to China.

So after a 2 year long quest to find a mate for my i Prestige MP glossy paint I now am lucky enough to own 2 pair of perfectly matched frames that I can play very well with.

Be patient and don't get frustrated......you can do this.

I can't comment on other brands....but I almost bought a matched set of Redondo MP's a few months ago.....I am glad I stayed the course with Head....it is what I have come to know best.....sounds like that is true for you too!

Again, good luck with it!

I loved the i radical Mp as well .
 
You guys have almost completely convinced me to keep the Radicals and try to tweak them a little more to get the feel I want out of them. This has been ongoing experiment for over a year now and I'm not exactly sure what else to try besides ...work on making them a little more headlight and reduce the tension a bit on the current string setup as a start. Do any of you know of a way to insert a spray foam (or something else similar and light weight) into the hoop area of the frame? The biggest thing about the Radicals is how unstable and hollow they feel even with some weight added in those areas. What is the most stable (twist weight perhaps?) midplus racquet on the market? I am really looking for something with a nice dampened feel without the need to heavily modify it to get it there.
 
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tigerhoo

New User
You guys have almost completely convinced me to keep the Radicals and try to tweak them a little more to get the feel I want out of them. This has been ongoing experiment for over a year now and I'm not exactly sure what else to try besides ...work on making them a little more headlight and reduce the tension a bit on the current string setup as a start. Do any of you know of a way to insert a spray foam (or something else similar and light weight) into the hoop area of the frame? The biggest thing about the Radicals is how unstable and hollow they feel even with some weight added in those areas. What is the most stable (twist weight perhaps?) midplus racquet on the market? I am really looking for something with a nice dampened feel without the need to heavily modify it to get it there.

Not an 18x20, but close is the YT Instinct. It's18x19, same weight, with a bit more power plus control. A little stiffer with RA at 63, but offers a larger sweet spot than the radical. This is a very undertated frame.
 

mrmo1115

Hall of Fame
You guys have almost completely convinced me to keep the Radicals and try to tweak them a little more to get the feel I want out of them. This has been ongoing experiment for over a year now and I'm not exactly sure what else to try besides ...work on making them a little more headlight and reduce the tension a bit on the current string setup as a start. Do any of you know of a way to insert a spray foam (or something else similar and light weight) into the hoop area of the frame? The biggest thing about the Radicals is how unstable and hollow they feel even with some weight added in those areas. What is the most stable (twist weight perhaps?) midplus racquet on the market? I am really looking for something with a nice dampened feel without the need to heavily modify it to get it there.

I suggest just trying a new racquet. Like I previously stated the BLX Blade 98 is around the corner.
 

dgoran

Hall of Fame
I second that you keep your YT radicals and keep tuning it in till you find specs you like. I was "tuning" and playing around my rackets till I realized exactly what suits my strokes (Serves and One Hander in particular) since with forehand I can adjust easier. I for example need 31.5 cm balance and softer flex say below 65. Anything stiffer gets to my arm eventually and anything more than 31.5 balance throws me off on my serve and onehander.

On a related note to your YT Radical my buddy bought a modded YT Radical and that thing was a monster.

It had even balance 33.5 BUT had iPrestige caps and lead pretty much all around the hoop under the caps. Silicone in the handle. Not sure total weight but it was more that 12.5 oz for sure.

That Radical hit heaviest balls I have ever seen. Amazing...it did bother my serve and backhand but my friend has a two hander so he had no issues. His serve is a rally starter so he was not concerned for control on serve.
 

EKnee08

Professional
Your goals are tough to meet. You want an MP racquet with a limited weight and low stiffness that nevertheless gives more punch and stability.

The Radical (particularly the LM) already has quite high twistweight for an MP -- clearly more than many heavier racquets such as the Prestige. The power is also quite high for such a flexible racquet. Both are further improved by the weighting you have already added.

To get more stability without more weight, you could change the geometry and switch to an OS (the real advantage of an OS, e.g. the LM Radical OS, which has higher stock twistweight than the K Pro Staff). To get more power without more weight, you could also go to an OS or look for more stiffness.

Tried OS lately?



Please explain what you mean by a "high twistweight."
Thanks.
 

EKnee08

Professional
You guys have almost completely convinced me to keep the Radicals and try to tweak them a little more to get the feel I want out of them. This has been ongoing experiment for over a year now and I'm not exactly sure what else to try besides ...work on making them a little more headlight and reduce the tension a bit on the current string setup as a start. Do any of you know of a way to insert a spray foam (or something else similar and light weight) into the hoop area of the frame? The biggest thing about the Radicals is how unstable and hollow they feel even with some weight added in those areas. What is the most stable (twist weight perhaps?) midplus racquet on the market? I am really looking for something with a nice dampened feel without the need to heavily modify it to get it there.

I have been in the same boat. Used the Youtek Rad MP when it first came out but switched to the Prestige. After a hand injury, I was looking for a racquet with greater forgiveness to let my hand heal and not reinjure it. I had my Rads customized.
However, something still seems to be missing. Played doubles last night. The only thing about the Rad I like better is my net game-I have an easier time sticking my volleys.
With the Prestige: I can unload on my serve and have pinpoint placement. Can't do it with the Rad. My serves aren't as effective.
Returns are deeper and more stable with the stock Prestige. I am able to hit better passing shots with the Prestige, etc. More control from the backcourt, etc., etc.

I am frustrated and confused. I may end up looking for something else.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Not an 18x20, but close is the YT Instinct. It's18x19, same weight, with a bit more power plus control. A little stiffer with RA at 63, but offers a larger sweet spot than the radical. This is a very undertated frame.

^^^ agree 100%

The YT Instinct is a smooth feeling tweener with good pop AND feel for touch shots. The 18x19 pattern is close to a 18x20. VERY underated racquet and can be leaded up if need be.
 

Anton

Legend
I'm currently looking at the ProKennex Black Ace 98 as it appears to be the closest match. I'm currently using the YT Radical MP and want more stability and a little more power. Flexibility and stability would be the most important characteristics to me. I prefer frames that can still be purchased new regardless of it being a current model. What would you guys recommend?

my advice would be to keep the Radical and just put leather grip on it and maybe a bit of lead on the loop.
 
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