It's over : Tsitsipas and Shapovalov have awakened Nadal

[RoS]

Those match points saved against Tsitsipas and Shapovalov in Barcelona and Rome may have been the turning point of the Clay Season

Nadal's confidence could have been seriously dented after the infamous AO defeat and the Monte-Carlo defeat and his opponents would be more confident and ready to take down the beast on Philippe Chatrier. Nadal is still the man to beat but he would have started Roland Garros with some doubts like 2015 without Clay Master 1000 wins (in a full clay season, 2020 was too special). Now he has won Barcelone and will certainly win Rome.
Tsitsipas and Shapovalov failed and now Nadal found his Beast Clay Form again by beating Zverev in a royal revenge, he will be unstoppable again. I don't think that Zverev, Tsitsipas and other contenders will enter on Philippe Chatrier fully believing in their chances. Djokovic is the only one who match up well with Nadal and has the balls to beat him but his clay game has declined even if still capable of flashes.

Beating Nadal - even in doubt - on Philippe Chatrier is already the biggest challenge of the tennis , but beating a confident Nadal with his aura of invincibility reinforced on Philippe Chatrier is impossible.

Now that Nadal have been awakened, he will be unstoppable.

The Federer's records are DONE and DUSTED. Already by the " 321 " and now the #21 is coming.

The Next-Gen have doomed Federer.

 

[mike danny]

The Next-Gen have doomed Federer.

It's not like that's something recent.

 

[tudwell]

Opelka to expose Nadal false dawn.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Time for him to be put back to sleep, then

 

[King No1e]

The big favorite? Sure. But I wouldn't call him unstoppable just yet. Thiem is just getting warmed up, and there was already major improvement from Madrid to Rome (he got unlucky coming up against an inspired Sonego who played the match of his life - yes, he played better here than against Djokovic). A little more match practice and confidence, and he could easily be back in the mix as the 2nd major contender.

 

[RoS]

The big favorite? Sure. But I wouldn't call him unstoppable just yet. Thiem is just getting warmed up, and there was already major improvement from Madrid to Rome (he got unlucky coming up against an inspired Sonego who played the match of his life - yes, he played better here than against Djokovic). A little more match practice and confidence, and he could easily be back in the mix as the 2nd major contender.

Thiem has no chance against Nadal with his OHBH. He can go toe to toe with Nadal for two sets but no more. Nadal's forehand is too much to handle.

 

[King No1e]

Thiem has no chance against Nadal with his OHBH. He can go toe to toe with Nadal for two sets but no more. Nadal's forehand is too much to handle.

Thiem's 1HBH is the only one that can withstand Nadal's spin. Nadal can beat Thiem for consistency, patience, mental strength, even physicality (maybe not at 35, but in the past), but I've never seen Nadal beat Thiem on clay by breaking down his BH.
Nadal's biggest advantage in a potential RG final would be psychological, not tactical.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Time for him to be put back to sleep, then

let's hope some Opelka™ 7676 mg does the trick...

 

[RoS]

Thiem's 1HBH is the only one that can withstand Nadal's spin. Nadal can beat Thiem for consistency, patience, mental strength, even physicality (maybe not at 35, but in the past), but I've never seen Nadal beat Thiem on clay by breaking down his BH.
Nadal's biggest advantage in a potential RG final would be psychological, not tactical.

I don't fully agree.

Yes, Thiem's OHBH can withstand Nadal's insane spin but the Austrian must spend a collassal amount of energy to stay with Nadal. Thiem has not the flexibility and the Djokovic's Elite ROS neither he have the versatility of Federer. Federer had a weaker OHBH than Thiem, but except 2008, the Swiss pushed harder a younger and faster Nadal.

Nadal is one the best tacticien ever. Even his backhand is a lethal weapon.

The main problem with Nadal's tospin forehand since 2005 is : he can put everyone in uncomfortable positions with his insane angles while remaining very safe (almost not UE). Nadal even can just pushing with his forehand waiting errors. The topspin and the slowness of the clay means that he is always in position. And if Nadal want to go to a next gear, he actives his DTL Forehand.

The Nadal Forehand is the ultimate combination of offense/defense. He takes you to the corners of the court and always gives Nadal time to recover his position with his lift when the Spaniard is attacked.

Only sharp angles and DTL shots can perforate the Nadal's court coverage on clay and taking the ball early. Impossible to do that all the time in a Bo5 clay match

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

let's hope some Opelka™ 7676 mg does the trick...

Yes... Perfectly happy for the new Essence of TREE from HUGE BOSS to do the trick.

 

[mike danny]

Thiem's 1HBH is the only one that can withstand Nadal's spin. Nadal can beat Thiem for consistency, patience, mental strength, even physicality (maybe not at 35, but in the past), but I've never seen Nadal beat Thiem on clay by breaking down his BH.
Nadal's biggest advantage in a potential RG final would be psychological, not tactical.

Even Thiem can't withstand hitting OHBHs at shoulder height forever.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Those match points saved against Tsitsipas and Shapovalov in Barcelona and Rome may have been the turning point of the Clay Season

Nadal's confidence could have been seriously dented after the infamous AO defeat and the Monte-Carlo defeat and his opponents would be more confident and ready to take down the beast on Philippe Chatrier. Nadal is still the man to beat but he would have started Roland Garros with some doubts like 2015 without Clay Master 1000 wins (in a full clay season, 2020 was too special). Now he has won Barcelone and will certainly win Rome.
Tsitsipas and Shapovalov failed and now Nadal found his Beast Clay Form again by beating Zverev in a royal revenge, he will be unstoppable again. I don't think that Zverev, Tsitsipas and other contenders will enter on Philippe Chatrier fully believing in their chances. Djokovic is the only one who match up well with Nadal and has the balls to beat him but his clay game has declined even if still capable of flashes.

Beating Nadal - even in doubt - on Philippe Chatrier is already the biggest challenge of the tennis , but beating a confident Nadal with his aura of invincibility reinforced on Philippe Chatrier is impossible.

Now that Nadal have been awakened, he will be unstoppable.

The Federer's records are DONE and DUSTED. Already by the " 321 " and now the #21 is coming.

The Next-Gen have doomed Federer.

 

[King No1e]

I don't fully agree.

Yes, Thiem's OHBH can withstand Nadal's insane spin but the Austrian must spend a collassal amount of energy to stay with Nadal. Thiem has not the flexibility and the Djokovic's Elite ROS neither he have the versatility of Federer. Federer had a weaker OHBH than Thiem, but except 2008, the Swiss pushed harder a younger and faster Nadal.

Nadal is one the best tacticien ever. Even his backhand is a lethal weapon.

The main problem with Nadal's tospin forehand since 2005 is : he can put everyone in uncomfortable positions with his insane angles while remaining very safe (almost not UE). Nadal even can just pushing with his forehand waiting errors. The topspin and the slowness of the clay means that he is always in position. And if Nadal want to go to a next gear, he actives his DTL Forehand.

The Nadal Forehand is the ultimate combination of offense/defense. He takes you to the corners of the court and always gives Nadal time to recover his position with his lift when the Spaniard is attacked.

Only sharp angles and DTL shots can perforate the Nadal's court coverage on clay and taking the ball early. Impossible to do that all the time in a Bo5 clay match

Fed's BH is nothing like Thiem's. Fed has more variety but we all know how easily it breaks down against Nadal on clay. Almost every 1HBH can't handle Nadal on clay except Thiem.
I agree Nadal is more tactically smart than Thiem and has ways to beat him, but "hit the topspin to the BH for easy results" is not one of them. In terms of defensive ability, Thiem's backhand on clay functions more like a 2-hander, or perhaps even a 2nd forehand.

 

[Sephiroth]

Thank you Shapovalov, keep choking plz

 

[rografnovand]

Not sure about tsitsi. But shaps definitely has put Nadal in his groove. Don't see him losing more than a set at the FO now

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Fed's BH is nothing like Thiem's. Fed has more variety but we all know how easily it breaks down against Nadal on clay. Almost every 1HBH can't handle Nadal on clay except Thiem.
I agree Nadal is more tactically smart than Thiem and has ways to beat him, but "hit the topspin to the BH for easy results" is not one of them. In terms of defensive ability, Thiem's backhand on clay functions more like a 2-hander, or perhaps even a 2nd forehand.

RAFA has a better record against 2HBHs than OHBHs on clay

 

[NoleIsBoat]

The Next-Gen have doomed Federer.

10-21 in slams facing main rivals doomed Federer.

 

[beast of mallorca]

Time for him to be put back to sleep, then

What are you going to do, sing lullabies?

 

[MichaelNadal]

 

[duaneeo]

The Next-Gen have doomed Federer.

If anything, Federer doomed himself. Rafa protected his Roland Garros turf, while Federer failed to protect his Wimbledon turf.

 

[ChaelAZ]

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

What are you going to do, sing lullabies?

Nah, just p!ss and moan while mugs continue to gift him further subscriptions to I am The Gladiator, No? Weekly. Maybe my negativity will be strong enough to work like some kind of EMP and fry the Bunny's batteries.

 

[RoS]

If anything, Federer doomed himself. Rafa protected his Roland Garros turf, while Federer failed to protect his Wimbledon turf.

To have a chance of beating Nadal at Roland Garros, you must already undermine his confidence by beating him regularly on Clay Master 1000, shredd his aura of invincibility. I really think Nadal is diving into his last strength and FO 2021 is his last chance to win a GS and surpass Federer.
Tsitsipas and Shapovalov failed. Zverev failed too against a 35 years old who had a 3h30 match yesterday.

Now it's over. No one is beating him on Philippe Chatrier. Tsitsipas, Zverev and others will fight of course, but Nadal will be too confident, too sure of his strength. And in a mental battle ( in addition to the physical and tactical challenge ), Nadal is miles above everyone. #21 is coming and then Federer record will be ancient history.

Tsitsipas and Shapovalov helped Nadal big time.

But yes you're right. Wimbledon 2019 will stay as one of the most important matches in tennis history with the infamous " 40-15 ". Federer doomed his legacy. Had Federer won, Nadal would have to win FO 22 at 36 years old to surpass Federer and Djokovic would have been out of the equation (21-15 instead of 20-16 in Summer 2019 is a BIG difference)

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

If anything, Federer doomed himself. Rafa protected his Roland Garros turf, while Federer failed to protect his Wimbledon turf.

Nah, Fed did enough. Look at how much they've had to win in overtime to keep up.

 

[duaneeo]

But yes you're right. Wimbledon 2019 will stay as one of the most important matches in tennis history with the infamous " 40-15 ". Federer doomed his legacy.

Federer may have doomed his chances of holding the slam record, but his legacy is fine thank you. Nadal winning another RG would not make him the GOAT.

But, Federer could've done better in protecting Wimbledon. 2019 is still difficult, but I'm looking more at 2011, 2013, and 2016.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

If anything, Federer doomed himself. Rafa protected his Roland Garros turf, while Federer failed to protect his Wimbledon turf.

0-3 in Wimbledon finals, bud.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

What are you going to do, sing lullabies?

whatever it takes...

 

[mike danny]

If anything, Federer doomed himself. Rafa protected his Roland Garros turf, while Federer failed to protect his Wimbledon turf.

Well, Fed only failed in 2008. After that, Fed had Djokovic, while Nadal, as brilliant as he has still been at RG, has had no one on that level to deal with. Fed would also win lots of Wimb in his 30's against a Thiem equivalent on grass.

 

[mike danny]

Federer may have doomed his chances of holding the slam record, but his legacy is fine thank you. Nadal winning another RG would not make him the GOAT.

But, Federer could've done better in protecting Wimbledon. 2019 is still difficult, but I'm looking more at 2011, 2013, and 2016.

Years when he was injured and bad? Nah, those years weren't lost opportunities.

 

[DSH]

Federer may have doomed his chances of holding the slam record, but his legacy is fine thank you. Nadal winning another RG would not make him the GOAT.

But, Federer could've done better in protecting Wimbledon. 2019 is still difficult, but I'm looking more at 2011, 2013, and 2016.

There is no GOAT, it is clear that your idol never was and will never be!

 

[octogon]

To have a chance of beating Nadal at Roland Garros, you must already undermine his confidence by beating him regularly on Clay Master 1000, shredd his aura of invincibility.

Yeah, how well did that work out for Thiem?

Even Djokovic's lone victory against Nadal at RG came when he was in the worst form of his career and literally could have lost to anyone. Beating Nadal in clay Masters 1000's is no guarantee of anything when it comes to RG. Players have done just that and Nadal still beats them at RG.

Nadal almost always regains his aura of invincibility at RG, no matter how he performed in the clay warm-ups.

 

[RoS]

Well, Fed only failed in 2008. After that, Fed had Djokovic, while Nadal, as brilliant as he has still been at RG, has had no one on that level to deal with. Fed would also win lots of Wimb in his 30's against a Thiem equivalent on grass.

This.

Federer would have won Wimbledon 15 times if he dealed with the likes of Shapovalov and Zverev. They would choke no matter how old he is. But he didn't have this luxury against Djokovic, who is ruthless and won't waste the opportunities he has like a clown.

Nadal is a fighter, he is a great champion but Shapovalov gifted the match to him. This is not a good sign for the current tour to have the Big 2 so overly dominant while they are 35 years old. It was funny a few years ago but no more now. The Medvedev match against Djokovic show he is far away from him.

Thiem is the only one who has the mentality of a champion. He has beaten an inform Federer in the Indian Wells Final, has beaten him saving match points on grass and clay, has beaten twice Djokovic at Roland Garros and has beaten Nadal in Melbourne.

Zverev has nothing for him. Strong against the weak, weak against the strong when his serve doesn't give free points.

 

[mike danny]

This.

Federer would have won Wimbledon 15 times if he dealed with the likes of Shapovalov and Zverev. They would choke no matter how old he is. But he didn't have this luxury against Djokovic, who is ruthless and won't waste the opportunities he has like a clown.

Nadal is a fighter, he is a great champion but Shapovalov gifted the match to him. This is not a good sign for the current tour to have overly dominants. It was funny a few years ago but no more now. The Medved

Thiem is the only one who has the mentality of a champion. He has beaten an inform Federer in the Indian Wells Final, has beaten him saving match points on grass and clay, has beaten twice Djokovic at Roland Garros and has beaten Nadal in Melbourne.

Zverev has nothing for him. Strong against the weak, weak against the strong when his serve doesn't give free points.

Wouldn't say Shapo gifted Nadal the match. He played a lousy tiebreak, sure, but he didn't gift him the win.

And with all due respect to Thiem, he beat a pretty bad version of Fed on grass and it's not really a good luck that he struggled with 38erer on clay.

 

[RoS]

Yeah, how well did that work out for Thiem?

Even Djokovic's lone victory against Nadal at RG came when he was in the worst form of his career and literally could have lost to anyone. Beating Nadal in clay Masters 1000's is no guarantee of anything when it comes to RG. Players have done just that and Nadal still beats them at RG.

Nadal almost always regains his aura of invincibility at RG, no matter how he performed in the clay warm-ups.

It's different for Thiem. Nadal in 2017 had won Monte-Carlo, Madrid and Barcelona. In 2018, he had won Monte-Carlo, Barcelone and Rome. Even in 2019, he had won Rome.

Had Tsitsipas and Shapovalov converted their MP, Nadal wouldn't have won ANYTHING (no Monte-Carlo, no Barcelone, no Madrid, no Rome, nothing, a big fat zero).

 

[DSH]

This.

Federer would have won Wimbledon 15 times if he dealed with the likes of Shapovalov and Zverev. They would choke no matter how old he is. But he didn't have this luxury against Djokovic, who is ruthless and won't waste the opportunities he has like a clown.

Nadal is a fighter, he is a great champion but Shapovalov gifted the match to him. This is not a good sign for the current tour to have overly dominants. It was funny a few years ago but no more now. The Medved

Thiem is the only one who has the mentality of a champion. He has beaten an inform Federer in the Indian Wells Final, has beaten him saving match points on grass and clay, has beaten twice Djokovic at Roland Garros and has beaten Nadal in Melbourne.

Zverev has nothing for him. Strong against the weak, weak against the strong when his serve doesn't give free points.

Nadal hasn't faced those players at RG once either; The pre-GS clay tournaments, while important, are not the final set to make Nadal nervous when it comes to playing in Paris.

 

[RoS]

Wouldn't say Shapo gifted Nadal the match. He played a lousy tiebreak, sure, but he didn't gift him the win.

And with all due respect to Thiem, he beat a pretty bad version of Fed on grass and it's not really a good luck that he struggled with 38erer on clay.

I saw the match. The 3-1 40-0 game from Shapovalov was inexcusable. Same with 3-1 in the third with first lousy points (like his smash right on Nadal)

 

[lordlosh]

All that being said, Nadal is getting away with a lot. Every single time he was in a trouble, he served 35+ seconds. There was exactly 1 tournament when he was punish. And after that they started to start the clock for him way way too late after the point is finished.
At least 5-10 seconds. At least.
And then he is taking a enormous amount of time between first and second serve. And the rule its clear, you should straight away go for your second.
Yet some young player like Tsitsipas is getting constantly warmed for the clock, yet he serve fast most of the time. And Nadal is doing it constantly.

This is giving him time to get his thoughts, as well as putting the pressure on his opponent, and making them nervous and think and think. Staying on the line jumping left and right, waiting for minutes for Nadal to execute his serve, and your head become a mess.
Also Nadal is making every game a battle, and he exhaust his opponent that way. Getting dragged into games that last 8-10 minutes, and then you lose them and have to serve.
And don`t dare tell me this ain`t giving him a HUGE advantage. Nothing against Nadal, but he is getting away with way too much. This is straight up cheating, and he is doing it pretty much from 2005+ constantly. Last time i remember him serving normally was against Federer at Miami. Its obviously a tactical thing. First he is getting way more rest, than he is allowed, and then what he is doing to his opponents.
Its not like 1-2 opponents that was getting mad about it.
But a lot of the players have fault in this as well. They should have straight up bring this question to the "board", and such advantages should have been lifted.
Specially against Shapovalov i straight up recorded it with chronometer. If he miss a first serve, he is getting more than a minute to serve. Good luck staying calm at the return side. Good luck keeping your form for that long, when Nadal is taking you the time, and pretty much getting you away from the ball for that long. Every single time he is getting 15-30 or face a BP, he is getting at least 35+ seconds.

This rule should be straight up more clean. Or just make the clock absolutely automatically after the point is over and drag it to 30 seconds. Or referee should be 100% strict. I mean they are 100% strict as we seen, as this happen only to Nadal.
Pretty sure he have a big talk about this.

As far as FO and so on, people on here are way to dramatical. Actually everything can happen.
If Nadal gets a tough draw i kinda don`t see it.
And Tsitsipas is also most dangerous after he lose to someone. He just come back stronger and improve more, and he improve his tactical plan as well.
Today match with Djoker is a good example of that as well.
If Nadal gets a tough draw, like Tsitsipas and Djokovic(don`t sleep on him) on his side, he may not even get to the final.
Just because Djokovic so far have a bad draw, doesn`t mean a ......
And don`t bring me the RG last year. Djokovic have all the chances in the world, and while the result was absolutely domination, it was Djokovic who was playing terribly and missing absolutely every opportunities he had.
Yeah Nadal is the big favorite, but everything can happen really.

 

[MichaelNadal]

All that being said, Nadal is getting away with a lot. Every single time he was in a trouble, he served 35+ seconds. There was exactly 1 tournament when he was punish. And after that they started to start the clock for him way way too late after the point is finished.
At least 5-10 seconds. At least.
And then he is taking a enormous amount of time between first and second serve. And the rule its clear, you should straight away go for your second.
Yet some young player like Tsitsipas is getting constantly warmed for the clock, yet he serve fast most of the time. And Nadal is doing it constantly.

This is giving him time to get his thoughts, as well as putting the pressure on his opponent, and making them nervous and think and think. Staying on the line jumping left and right, waiting for minutes for Nadal to execute his serve, and your head become a mess.
Also Nadal is making every game a battle, and he exhaust his opponent that way. Getting dragged into games that last 8-10 minutes, and then you lose them and have to serve.
And don`t dare tell me this ain`t giving him a HUGE advantage. Nothing against Nadal, but he is getting away with way too much. This is straight up cheating, and he is doing it pretty much from 2005+ constantly. Last time i remember him serving normally was against Federer at Miami. Its obviously a tactical thing. First he is getting way more rest, than he is allowed, and then what he is doing to his opponents.
Its not like 1-2 opponents that was getting mad about it.
But a lot of the players have fault in this as well. They should have straight up bring this question to the "board", and such advantages should have been lifted.
Specially against Shapovalov i straight up recorded it with chronometer. If he miss a first serve, he is getting more than a minute to serve. Good luck staying calm at the return side. Good luck keeping your form for that long, when Nadal is taking you the time, and pretty much getting you away from the ball for that long. Every single time he is getting 15-30 or face a BP, he is getting at least 35+ seconds.

This rule should be straight up more clean. Or just make the clock absolutely automatically after the point is over and drag it to 30 seconds. Or referee should be 100% strict. I mean they are 100% strict as we seen, as this happen only to Nadal.
Pretty sure he have a big talk about this.

As far as FO and so on, people on here are way to dramatical. Actually everything can happen.
If Nadal gets a tough draw i kinda don`t see it.
And Tsitsipas is also most dangerous after he lose to someone. He just come back stronger and improve more, and he improve his tactical plan as well.
Today match with Djoker is a good example of that as well.
If Nadal gets a tough draw, like Tsitsipas and Djokovic(don`t sleep on him) on his side, he may not even get to the final.
Just because Djokovic so far have a bad draw, doesn`t mean a ......
And don`t bring me the RG last year. Djokovic have all the chances in the world, and while the result was absolutely domination, it was Djokovic who was playing terribly and missing absolutely every opportunities he had.
Yeah Nadal is the big favorite, but everything can happen really.

 

[RoS]

All that being said, Nadal is getting away with a lot. Every single time he was in a trouble, he served 35+ seconds. There was exactly 1 tournament when he was punish. And after that they started to start the clock for him way way too late after the point is finished.
At least 5-10 seconds. At least.
And then he is taking a enormous amount of time between first and second serve. And the rule its clear, you should straight away go for your second.
Yet some young player like Tsitsipas is getting constantly warmed for the clock, yet he serve fast most of the time. And Nadal is doing it constantly.

This is giving him time to get his thoughts, as well as putting the pressure on his opponent, and making them nervous and think and think. Staying on the line jumping left and right, waiting for minutes for Nadal to execute his serve, and your head become a mess.
Also Nadal is making every game a battle, and he exhaust his opponent that way. Getting dragged into games that last 8-10 minutes, and then you lose them and have to serve.
And don`t dare tell me this ain`t giving him a HUGE advantage. Nothing against Nadal, but he is getting away with way too much. This is straight up cheating, and he is doing it pretty much from 2005+ constantly. Last time i remember him serving normally was against Federer at Miami. Its obviously a tactical thing. First he is getting way more rest, than he is allowed, and then what he is doing to his opponents.
Its not like 1-2 opponents that was getting mad about it.
But a lot of the players have fault in this as well. They should have straight up bring this question to the "board", and such advantages should have been lifted.
Specially against Shapovalov i straight up recorded it with chronometer. If he miss a first serve, he is getting more than a minute to serve. Good luck staying calm at the return side. Good luck keeping your form for that long, when Nadal is taking you the time, and pretty much getting you away from the ball for that long. Every single time he is getting 15-30 or face a BP, he is getting at least 35+ seconds.

This rule should be straight up more clean. Or just make the clock absolutely automatically after the point is over and drag it to 30 seconds. Or referee should be 100% strict. I mean they are 100% strict as we seen, as this happen only to Nadal.
Pretty sure he have a big talk about this.

As far as FO and so on, people on here are way to dramatical. Actually everything can happen.
If Nadal gets a tough draw i kinda don`t see it.
And Tsitsipas is also most dangerous after he lose to someone. He just come back stronger and improve more, and he improve his tactical plan as well.
Today match with Djoker is a good example of that as well.
If Nadal gets a tough draw, like Tsitsipas and Djokovic(don`t sleep on him) on his side, he may not even get to the final.
Just because Djokovic so far have a bad draw, doesn`t mean a ......
And don`t bring me the RG last year. Djokovic have all the chances in the world, and while the result was absolutely domination, it was Djokovic who was playing terribly and missing absolutely every opportunities he had.
Yeah Nadal is the big favorite, but everything can happen really.

Djokovic was playing terribly yes.

Because he declined and i'am afraid he will still continue to play terribly.

Do you really believe that Stefanos has a chance on Bo5 with his backhand ? The Nadal forehand is too much to handle.
Nadal stamina will not be tested because he will demolish everyone in 2 hours. To test Nadal, to make him work, you must have a elite baseline game and the mental fortitude.

Djokovic has the mental fortitude, but doesn't have the elite baseline game anymore.
Tsitsipas has the elite baseline game, but doesn't have the mental fortitude (as Barcelona proved. It was not only the MP, but the way he lost the first set)

Thiem is the one who would almost combine the two criteria.

Zverev has just good baseline game and good mental, but not elite baseline game and mental fortitude.

 

[Deleted member 770948]

Nadal didn't even need to play these clay events.
He only played 3 matches last year on clay before RG, and one of them was a 62 75 loss vs. Diego.
And Nadal then won RG without dropping a set, and beat Diego 63 63 76(0) and beat Djokovic 60 62 75 with the roof closed!

Denis need not have been born, because Nadal didn't need him for anything this year.
Nadal's game falls into place naturally at Roland Garros, so form doesn't matter.

2015 was the only exception, because Nadal had a mental problem that year and was losing to all kinds of folks on all surfaces........and it began at the AO when Berdych thrashed Nadal 62 60 76(5), which ended Nadal's 17 match winning streak over Berdych.

 

[BeatlesFan]

There was no "turning point." Rafa could have lost third round in MC, Barcelona, Madrid and Rome this year and he still would win RG without breaking a sweat. His mental aura at RG is completely unassailable and will be until he loses a final there. You have people on here saying, "Thiem is the favorite!! Zverev will pummel Nadal on Chatrier! If Zverev beats Rafa twice in a row, he's the RG favorite!"

Clouds in their coffee. These tune ups mean absolutely nothing. Nobody is beating Nadal at RG this year unless he is seriously ill or has a broken bone. In fact, even with a shattered femur I favor him over anyone else in the draw, including Djokovic. The next gen is mentally putrid, laughable, beyond belief garbage. And Djokovic has declined on the surface.

#21 incoming.

 

[RoS]

There was no "turning point." Rafa could have lost third round in MC, Barcelona, Madrid and Rome this year and he still would win RG without breaking a sweat. His mental aura at RG is completely unassailable and will be until he loses a final there. You had people on here saying, "Thiem is the favorite!! Zverev will pummel Nadal on Chatrier!"

Clouds in their coffee. These tune ups mean absolutely nothing. Nobody is beating Nadal at RG this year unless he is seriously ill or has a broken bone. In fact, even with a shattered femur I favor him over anyone else in the draw, including Djokovic.

Agree

But his mental aura at RG would have maybe a been little dented with a big fat zero this year. Don't underestimate the importance of victories. He has always won a Clay Master 1000 when he won RG (except 2009)

And someone will beat Nadal one day

Like Sampras at Wimbledon, I'am sure BeatlesFan that many people were saying in 2001 that Pistol Pete had a " mental aura completely unassailable " and that nobody was beating him unless he is seriously ill too
And a famous Swiss beat him...

 

[Deleted member 770948]

Agree

But his mental aura at RG would have maybe a been little dented with a big fat zero this year. Don't underestimate the importance of victories. He has always won a Clay Master 1000 when he won RG (except 2009)

2020 revealed all.
He was in poor physical condition with no match practice and rusty........He won nothing on clay (and only played 3 matches), and got destroyed by Diego (who'd never beaten Nadal)........and he played one of his best French Open's ever.

 

[Hitman]

Those match points saved against Tsitsipas and Shapovalov in Barcelona and Rome may have been the turning point of the Clay Season

Nadal's confidence could have been seriously dented after the infamous AO defeat and the Monte-Carlo defeat and his opponents would be more confident and ready to take down the beast on Philippe Chatrier. Nadal is still the man to beat but he would have started Roland Garros with some doubts like 2015 without Clay Master 1000 wins (in a full clay season, 2020 was too special). Now he has won Barcelone and will certainly win Rome.
Tsitsipas and Shapovalov failed and now Nadal found his Beast Clay Form again by beating Zverev in a royal revenge, he will be unstoppable again. I don't think that Zverev, Tsitsipas and other contenders will enter on Philippe Chatrier fully believing in their chances. Djokovic is the only one who match up well with Nadal and has the balls to beat him but his clay game has declined even if still capable of flashes.

Beating Nadal - even in doubt - on Philippe Chatrier is already the biggest challenge of the tennis , but beating a confident Nadal with his aura of invincibility reinforced on Philippe Chatrier is impossible.

Now that Nadal have been awakened, he will be unstoppable.

The Federer's records are DONE and DUSTED. Already by the " 321 " and now the #21 is coming.

The Next-Gen have doomed Federer.

No.

Nothing would have impacted Nadal's performance at RG, even if he lost those matches.

 

[Hitman]

There was no "turning point." Rafa could have lost third round in MC, Barcelona, Madrid and Rome this year and he still would win RG without breaking a sweat. His mental aura at RG is completely unassailable and will be until he loses a final there. You have people on here saying, "Thiem is the favorite!! Zverev will pummel Nadal on Chatrier! If Zverev beats Rafa twice in a row, he's the RG favorite!"

Clouds in their coffee. These tune ups mean absolutely nothing. Nobody is beating Nadal at RG this year unless he is seriously ill or has a broken bone. In fact, even with a shattered femur I favor him over anyone else in the draw, including Djokovic. The next gen is mentally putrid, laughable, beyond belief garbage. And Djokovic has declined on the surface.

#21 incoming.

Well said and right on point, especially the bit in bold.

 

[RoS]

Well said and right on point, especially the bit in bold.

Nadal is the greatest fighter of the history of tennis, and the greatest player ever on clay

But do you think, Hitman, that it's good that a 35 years old is more dominant than EVER on a specific surface ?
It's not good for the tour. It was funny a few years ago but now, the young guard should be dethroning the old guard.
We want moments like USO 2000 and Wimbledon 2001 (where Safin and Federer dethroned Sampras), Wimbledon 2008 where Younger Nadal dethroned Federer.

They were great players with complete game and fearless attitude.

When I read that Nadal must be hurt to have the chance to beat him, it's not optimistic for the future.

 

[mike danny]

But do you think, Hitman, that it's good that a 35 years old is more dominant than EVER on a specific surface ?

This. Don't think it's good for the game that Nadal is more unbeatable at the FO in his 30's than when he was younger.

 

[RoS]

This. Don't think it's good for the game that Nadal is more unbeatable at the FO in his 30's than when he was younger.

Younger and faster Nadal pushed to the brink by Peak Federer and Paul Henri Mathieu (who stayed with Nadal for 5 hours !!)

We will dream of having a player who would offer even a quarter of this performance

Today, we are happy when the " Prince of Clay " Thiem has taken a set from 33 years old Nadal in the FO 2019 Final while being breadsticked in the third and fourth set...or when a youngster " almost " beat Nadal in a Bo3 match.

 

[Mark-Touch]

Even Thiem can't withstand hitting OHBHs at shoulder height forever.

Correct and that's why it boggles the mind why the pros haven't studied the
Soderling tape from top to bottom to learn the recipe for triumph against Nadal.
It's not as if the video has been banned or is out of print!

 

[D.Nalby12]

All that being said, Nadal is getting away with a lot. Every single time he was in a trouble, he served 35+ seconds. There was exactly 1 tournament when he was punish. And after that they started to start the clock for him way way too late after the point is finished.
At least 5-10 seconds. At least.
And then he is taking a enormous amount of time between first and second serve. And the rule its clear, you should straight away go for your second.
Yet some young player like Tsitsipas is getting constantly warmed for the clock, yet he serve fast most of the time. And Nadal is doing it constantly.

This is giving him time to get his thoughts, as well as putting the pressure on his opponent, and making them nervous and think and think. Staying on the line jumping left and right, waiting for minutes for Nadal to execute his serve, and your head become a mess.
Also Nadal is making every game a battle, and he exhaust his opponent that way. Getting dragged into games that last 8-10 minutes, and then you lose them and have to serve.
And don`t dare tell me this ain`t giving him a HUGE advantage. Nothing against Nadal, but he is getting away with way too much. This is straight up cheating, and he is doing it pretty much from 2005+ constantly. Last time i remember him serving normally was against Federer at Miami. Its obviously a tactical thing. First he is getting way more rest, than he is allowed, and then what he is doing to his opponents.
Its not like 1-2 opponents that was getting mad about it.
But a lot of the players have fault in this as well. They should have straight up bring this question to the "board", and such advantages should have been lifted.
Specially against Shapovalov i straight up recorded it with chronometer. If he miss a first serve, he is getting more than a minute to serve. Good luck staying calm at the return side. Good luck keeping your form for that long, when Nadal is taking you the time, and pretty much getting you away from the ball for that long. Every single time he is getting 15-30 or face a BP, he is getting at least 35+ seconds.

This rule should be straight up more clean. Or just make the clock absolutely automatically after the point is over and drag it to 30 seconds. Or referee should be 100% strict. I mean they are 100% strict as we seen, as this happen only to Nadal.
Pretty sure he have a big talk about this.

As far as FO and so on, people on here are way to dramatical. Actually everything can happen.
If Nadal gets a tough draw i kinda don`t see it.
And Tsitsipas is also most dangerous after he lose to someone. He just come back stronger and improve more, and he improve his tactical plan as well.
Today match with Djoker is a good example of that as well.
If Nadal gets a tough draw, like Tsitsipas and Djokovic(don`t sleep on him) on his side, he may not even get to the final.
Just because Djokovic so far have a bad draw, doesn`t mean a ......
And don`t bring me the RG last year. Djokovic have all the chances in the world, and while the result was absolutely domination, it was Djokovic who was playing terribly and missing absolutely every opportunities he had.
Yeah Nadal is the big favorite, but everything can happen really.

Nadal is most consistent cheater in history of sport. He is kind of master in that. They brought shot clock - yet he finds the way to abuse the rules by taking more time first and second serve. (As there is no time rule between two serves). Throw him in any field - he will come on top via abusing loopholes in the system.