just need an estimate of how fast my serve is

[randomname]

I just really need a ballpark estimate for how fast my serve is, unfortunately I dont have a video, but on the majority of my flat serves the ball will hit the fence about 1.5 feet to 2 feet up, when I really chase the ball into the court it will hit the fence about 3.5 feet up but I get the feeling thats more of the angle than the speed.

 

[soyizgood]

Need a video clip, man. You could be doing this on a bouncy surface, which means you don't need as much power to hit the fence. You could also hit the fence with a bouncy kick serve, which won't need as much MPH as a flat serve.

 

[Ambivalent]

This is how i calculate my service speeds. It's kinda complicated but its one of the only alternatives to a radar gun.

Take a vid clip of your serve. Be sure to remember where the ball was on the court (in terms of coordinate) when you hit it, and where it lands as an estimate. Use the pythagorean theorem to calculate the distance the ball travels from point of contact to point of landing. (Your serve SHOULD be a diagonal line in respect to the court so you can form a triangle with that line, thus using the pythagorean theorem to measure the distance). Next, hopefully your cam is a decent fram rate one. Count as best as you can how many frames it takes for your serve to go from hitting the racquet to the ground. Divide this number by the fps of the clip (click view->statistics on Windows Media player 10 see). That's how many seconds it took for your serve to go from racquet to ground. Now put distance over the secfonds, and convert to miles per hour, and there's your service speed, roughly.

OR buy a radar gun.

 

[Shoalwater]

Speed

1.5 -2.0 ft. 96 MPH
2.1 - 3.0 112 MPH
3.1 - 3.5 163 MPH

 

[Midlife crisis]

I just really need a ballpark estimate for how fast my serve is, unfortunately I dont have a video, but on the majority of my flat serves the ball will hit the fence about 1.5 feet to 2 feet up, when I really chase the ball into the court it will hit the fence about 3.5 feet up but I get the feeling thats more of the angle than the speed.

How fast can you throw a baseball? Your serve speed, assuming reasonably similar biomechanics, will be about 50% faster than you can throw a baseball. If you can throw from second base to home (on a regular sized field) on the fly and keeping the ball lower than about 10-12 feet, you can probably throw about 70 MPH, meaning your serve speed will be about 105 MPH. If you can throw it on a line and keep the ball no higher than 8-10 feet, you're probably able to throw 80 MPH or faster, meaning people will likely ooh and ahh when you serve. If you have to lob a baseball to get it that distance, about 127 feet, then your serve is assuredly less than 100 MPH.

 

[J011yroger]

1.5 -2.0 ft. 96 MPH
2.1 - 3.0 112 MPH
3.1 - 3.5 163 MPH

OP Please ignore this reply.

J

 

[GuyClinch]

Even a cheap digital camera can shoot video now - just shoot some video. As for the baseball thing - alot of people don't use their throwing motion to serve. yeah they should - but they don't.

Pete

 

[Narcissist]

TUse the pythagorean theorem to calculate the distance the ball travels from point of contact to point of landing. (Your serve SHOULD be a diagonal line in respect to the court so you can form a triangle with that line, thus using the pythagorean theorem to measure the distance).

The ball does not travel along a straight line, it is a parabola. If this was the case when you hit a groundstroke, the ball would never touch the court on the other side without severe topspin!

 

[The_1337]

1.5 -2.0 ft. 96 MPH
2.1 - 3.0 112 MPH
3.1 - 3.5 163 MPH

couldnt that be affected by the ammount of spin you put on the ball?

 

[Midlife crisis]

Even a cheap digital camera can shoot video now - just shoot some video. As for the baseball thing - alot of people don't use their throwing motion to serve. yeah they should - but they don't.

Pete

That's why this is a pretty darned accurate method. A proper baseball throwing motion involves using the entire body, leading with the elbow, and pronation, all of the same things that are necessary when serving. If you have the technique down for one, you're likely able to use it for the other.

I've also verified this rough rule by measuring more than 20 people, most of whom have played baseball but some (like my wife) who have not and "throws like a girl" without leading with her elbow. She throws 45 MPH, and can serve in the upper 60's using more or less a hammer grip. When my son was younger and could throw about 50, he could serve about 75. He can now throw in the low 70's, and is just breaking 100 MPH consistently on his serve.

Also, on the very high end, you have guys who can throw about 100 MPH, and at the very high end, tennis serves are about 150 MPH. The average major league fastball is about 90 MPH, and the average professional male serve is in the 130's when they crank it. It's a pretty accurate approximation. If you think you have male pro serve potential, you should be able to throw a baseball nearly 300 feet on the fly.

 

[J011yroger]

^^^ Did you ever wonder how fast MPH wise some of the killer right fielders could throw? Someone with a real shotgun for an arm, like Vlad, or Bobby Abreu.

I mean, just watching yankee games where they are warming up on the field Gary Sheffield would be tossing the ball back and forth with one of the clubhouse guys, and just real casual like, the clubhouse guy would throw the ball to sheff in this big high parabola, and shef would throw it back straight as an arrow. Really puts it into perspective.

J

 

[Midlife crisis]

^^^ Did you ever wonder how fast MPH wise some of the killer right fielders could throw? Someone with a real shotgun for an arm, like Vlad, or Bobby Abreu.

I mean, just watching yankee games where they are warming up on the field Gary Sheffield would be tossing the ball back and forth with one of the clubhouse guys, and just real casual like, the clubhouse guy would throw the ball to sheff in this big high parabola, and shef would throw it back straight as an arrow. Really puts it into perspective.

J

A few years back when Ichiro was still playing right field, a single was hit to him on a hit and run. He fielded the ball and threw it approximately 200 feet to third base, on the fly, with the ball never being more than about 11 feet off the ground. That ball left his hand at an estimated 107 MPH. He had the benefit of running forward and crow-hopping to get the extra speed.

Vladimir Guerrero once was also showing off, and he threw a ball from behind the third base line well over the right field fence. I read that ball was estimated to have left his hand at 109 MPH, and the ball went something like 345 feet on the fly.

It really is incredible how well these guys can throw, just like watching pro tennis players and marveling at how hard they can serve.

 

[J011yroger]

That is some sick speed, and much like tennis, you really have to see it in person.

J

 

[FitzRoy]

That's why this is a pretty darned accurate method. A proper baseball throwing motion involves using the entire body, leading with the elbow, and pronation, all of the same things that are necessary when serving. If you have the technique down for one, you're likely able to use it for the other.

I've also verified this rough rule by measuring more than 20 people, most of whom have played baseball but some (like my wife) who have not and "throws like a girl" without leading with her elbow. She throws 45 MPH, and can serve in the upper 60's using more or less a hammer grip. When my son was younger and could throw about 50, he could serve about 75. He can now throw in the low 70's, and is just breaking 100 MPH consistently on his serve.

Also, on the very high end, you have guys who can throw about 100 MPH, and at the very high end, tennis serves are about 150 MPH. The average major league fastball is about 90 MPH, and the average professional male serve is in the 130's when they crank it. It's a pretty accurate approximation. If you think you have male pro serve potential, you should be able to throw a baseball nearly 300 feet on the fly.

This is interesting to me. I believe it was the poster TennisMastery (the guy who wrote that Tennis Mastery book) who recently seemed to be advising me NOT to lead with the elbow when serving. Maybe I got his advice backwards? I do know that quarterbacks are definitely always taught to lead with the elbow, but I didn't know that this was encouraged with baseball as well...I seem to recall "leading with the elbow too much" being a minor technical flaw in a pitching motion.

 

[Midlife crisis]

This is interesting to me. I believe it was the poster TennisMastery (the guy who wrote that Tennis Mastery book) who recently seemed to be advising me NOT to lead with the elbow when serving. Maybe I got his advice backwards? I do know that quarterbacks are definitely always taught to lead with the elbow, but I didn't know that this was encouraged with baseball as well...I seem to recall "leading with the elbow too much" being a minor technical flaw in a pitching motion.

Hmm, maybe saying that is a bit misleading. Leading with the elbow is not a deliberate thing. It occurs when serving and pitching as a consequence of torso rotation dragging the upper arm, while the lower arm lags behind. See this picture (it was the only good one I could find in a quick search):

http://www.tennis-hypnotica.com/images/womanserve2.jpg

Just prior to that point, the elbow would be higher than the forearm, so in essense the motion "leads with the elbow".

Here's a four-shot sequence of a pitching motion:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Baseball_pitching_motion_2004.jpg

In the third shot, the elbow is way in front of the lower arm - the elbow is clearly leading the way, but in neither of these is it forced. It is just a consequence of how to generate maximum hand velocity.

By the way, if you were to try and statically hold your arm in the positions you see, you'd find it almost impossible. This is why ramping up serving/throwing or even small problems in technique can cause joint problems.

 

[FitzRoy]

Thanks, Midlife - that's some good info there. That 4-image sequence helped me make sense of it pretty well.

I could always throw a baseball reasonably well, but when it came to a heavier ball like a football, I would "throw like a girl". I never played football, and the weight of it seemed to instantly disrupt my entire throwing mechanics. My serve technique seems to be similarly flawed in some fundamental way...maybe I should try breaking out a baseball and getting into a groove with that and see if jogging that muscle memory helps somehow.

 

[Midlife crisis]

Thanks, Midlife - that's some good info there. That 4-image sequence helped me make sense of it pretty well.

I could always throw a baseball reasonably well, but when it came to a heavier ball like a football, I would "throw like a girl". I never played football, and the weight of it seemed to instantly disrupt my entire throwing mechanics. My serve technique seems to be similarly flawed in some fundamental way...maybe I should try breaking out a baseball and getting into a groove with that and see if jogging that muscle memory helps somehow.

Nah, throw a football instead. It is better. See this page:

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/research/football.htm

That position is much closer to a service position than throwing a baseball, mostly because it is possible to throw a baseball using many different arm slots while throwing a football generally uses an arm slot angle closer to what is used during a serve.

Once you get the motion down, you could probably go back to throwing a baseball and do okay. My son and I would go to the park and do long tosses (long for us is 150-175 feet) to build up our arm/joint strength/speed before starting longer serving practice sessions, and that doesn't seem to hurt our service motions. My son used to use a three-quarter arm slot when he pitched and didn't play tennis, and now he comes much more over the top similar to how he serves. Even though we often throw a fair amount, he hasn't reverted back and seems to have no trouble going between the two. I always had a pretty high arm slot when throwing since I learned tennis first, so for me throwing a baseball is just like serving.

It seems the important thing is to relax the arm and allow the torso rotation to cause the upper arm to lead. If you're having problems gripping a football or somehow being tense in your hand or lower arm, you won't be able to relax yourself enough to allow the supination to occur. Just try to get into a similar position as in that picture, and then make sure you slow/stop your torso rotation to snap your arm through like a whip. The stopping of the torso rotation is important, too.

Good luck.

 

[GuyClinch]

Also, on the very high end, you have guys who can throw about 100 MPH, and at the very high end, tennis serves are about 150 MPH. The average major league fastball is about 90 MPH, and the average professional male serve is in the 130's when they crank it. It's a pretty accurate approximation. If you think you have male pro serve potential, you should be able to throw a baseball nearly 300 feet on the fly.

It's not so much that I disagree with you but I don't think this method is accurate for non baseball players. That is to say a pitcher will be able to hit huge serves. However some big servers might not be great pitchers.

Quite a few female pros can bring in 115 MPH serves but I doubt all of them can throw some innings in relief for the sox..

Pete

 

[AndyRLacoste]

This is how i calculate my service speeds. It's kinda complicated but its one of the only alternatives to a radar gun.

Take a vid clip of your serve. Be sure to remember where the ball was on the court (in terms of coordinate) when you hit it, and where it lands as an estimate. Use the pythagorean theorem to calculate the distance the ball travels from point of contact to point of landing. (Your serve SHOULD be a diagonal line in respect to the court so you can form a triangle with that line, thus using the pythagorean theorem to measure the distance). Next, hopefully your cam is a decent fram rate one. Count as best as you can how many frames it takes for your serve to go from hitting the racquet to the ground. Divide this number by the fps of the clip (click view->statistics on Windows Media player 10 see). That's how many seconds it took for your serve to go from racquet to ground. Now put distance over the secfonds, and convert to miles per hour, and there's your service speed, roughly.

OR buy a radar gun.

That is living prrof that school WILL help you in the real world!

 

[Midlife crisis]

It's not so much that I disagree with you but I don't think this method is accurate for non baseball players. That is to say a pitcher will be able to hit huge serves. However some big servers might not be great pitchers.

Quite a few female pros can bring in 115 MPH serves but I doubt all of them can throw some innings in relief for the sox..

Pete

I've done this comparison for both throwers and non-throwers, and I used my wife as an example above. Like I wrote previously, she throws like a girl but the approximation applies to her also.

This is really because serve speed is a measure of hand speed, as is throwing a ball. Racquets all have approximately the same efficiency in generating ball speed (about 140% of the stringbed speed) and are all generally 27-28 inches. These constraints are what make this approximation as accurate as it is. This also means how fast you can move your hand/how fast you can throw a ball is how fast you can swing a tennis racquet and serve a ball.

 

[J011yroger]

How much does a regulation baseball weigh?

J

 

[FatCat]

142 grams (5 oz)

 

[FitzRoy]

How much does a regulation baseball weigh?

J

An MLB ball is 5 ounces, I believe. NFL football has to be close to 3x that or more. Come to think of it, maybe this is part of the reason why throwing a football is a better approximation (if Midlife Crisis is correct in saying this), because the football is very close to the weight of a tennis racquet. And perhaps this could explain why I can throw a baseball ok, but I throw a football like a wimp and my serve is pretty weak.

 

[Midlife crisis]

An MLB ball is 5 ounces, I believe. NFL football has to be close to 3x that or more. Come to think of it, maybe this is part of the reason why throwing a football is a better approximation (if Midlife Crisis is correct in saying this), because the football is very close to the weight of a tennis racquet. And perhaps this could explain why I can throw a baseball ok, but I throw a football like a wimp and my serve is pretty weak.

A regulation football is between 14 and 15 ounces.

Here's a couple of sites I found with a quick search:

http://www.littletennis.com/index.c...agic Magazine/NewsLetterID/31/startrow/10.htm

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=3806919&BRD=2256&PAG=461&dept_id=457708&rfi=6

By the way, I should probably apologize for the phrase "throwing like a girl". That's a pretty much inaccurate stereotype that I really didn't want to perpetuate but did. Anyone who is not ambidextrous and tries to throw with their non-dominant hand will throw "like a girl", using the same type of improper dynamics. This means that a proper throwing motion, using what is referred to as the kinetic chain and with the proper pronation, is a learned motion rather than a gender issue. But this also supports the notion that throwing a football may help, because it forces you to keep your hand underneath the ball, which when applied to a continental racquet grip makes you swing towards the ball with the edge of the racquet - exactly how you're supposed to do it. With a baseball, it's so easy to hold that this aspect of the motion might not be used.

 

[GuyClinch]

Hmm I always felt that I could throw a football better then a baseball. So I think that's good news. Football seems to be benefit more from being a big strong guy, IMHO whereas plenty of little guys can still whip a baseball around.

That's my perception anyway.

Pete

 

[AJK1]

Why do you need to know how fast your serve is?

 

[snoflewis]

1.5 -2.0 ft. 96 MPH
2.1 - 3.0 112 MPH
3.1 - 3.5 163 MPH

lmao...i hope your kidding

i've hit flat serves where the ball bounced about 4 feet up...and im pretty sure it's not over 100 lol

 

[J011yroger]

lmao...i hope your kidding

i've hit flat serves where the ball bounced about 4 feet up...and im pretty sure it's not over 100 lol

I have hit kickers that land 6 feet up, and by his logic that would be nearly 500mph!!!

J

 

[Tennis4203]

1.5 -2.0 ft. 96 MPH
2.1 - 3.0 112 MPH
3.1 - 3.5 163 MPH

u mean on grass or hardcourts?