Kick Serve Help

[tennisguy2317]

I'm starting to learn to use topspin on my serves to increase consistency and because the extra spins makes for a difficult return.

I brush from about 8 to 2 o'clock. I get some great spin sometimes but its usually very weak. Also, sometimes my kick serves go long and I'm thinking its because of my contact point. I toss the ball over my head but behind the baseline (not inside the court). Is this correct or should I adjust my toss?

Some tips on the kick serve as well help mostly on the toss I described above would be very helpful. Thanks

 

[rhodyvik01]

It really depends on how you hit your serve to begin with. If you post a video of it, I'd be able to help more but generally:

7oclock to 3oclock is preferred method

Toss should be comfortable to you, and not cause discomfort. Do you mind if I ask your level of play? The kick serve is best learned on your knees at the service line trying to get the ball over the net with a lot of clearance and have it drop in the back half of the service box ideally. But if you want to just go from the baseline, try altering your toss. Remember: it's what's best for you. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to hit it if it works.

Some more information would help. Watch tennis channel and the pros and see how they hit 2nd serves/kick serves (if they so choose). The toss is usually a little bit closer to above your head but at the baseline. Try not tossing the ball behind the line too much...you'll reduce power. It all depends on your movement and rotation of the body and racquet along with your footwork.

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[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The toss shouldn't be too far forward [try tossing 2' into the court and see how difficult it is to generate TS].

When you write that you toss "behind the baseline", do you mean it's actually travelling away from the net or is it going straight up and if you let it bounce, it would hit behind the BL? If the latter, that seems reasonable.

The "going long" might be related to insufficient racquet head speed [RHS]. Are you swinging just as fast, if not faster, than your flat serve? Slowing down the swing is a big culprit because it decreases the amount of spin and therefore your margin of error.

Do some practice where you swing as fast as you can and ignore where the ball lands; simply get a sense of what that feels like. Are you getting good spin? If so, now you have a starting point and can make adjustments for location.

 

[TnsGuru]

Toss the tennis ball where it lines up over your head but also forward and into the court at the same time like this guy illustrates.

Here is a good visual on the kick serve technique. Don't judge because she is a lady but look at the technique she uses.

 

[tennisguy2317]

It really depends on how you hit your serve to begin with. If you post a video of it, I'd be able to help more but generally:

7oclock to 3oclock is preferred method

Toss should be comfortable to you, and not cause discomfort. Do you mind if I ask your level of play? The kick serve is best learned on your knees at the service line trying to get the ball over the net with a lot of clearance and have it drop in the back half of the service box ideally. But if you want to just go from the baseline, try altering your toss. Remember: it's what's best for you. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to hit it if it works.

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I started playing tennis about a year ago. I have solid groundstrokes, as well as slice and volley (which came after experimenting and balancing pace/spin). The weakest part of my game is my serve. Ill toss more into the court and see what happens.

 

[rhodyvik01]

I started playing tennis about a year ago. I have solid groundstrokes, as well as slice and volley (which came after experimenting and balancing pace/spin). The weakest part of my game is my serve. Ill toss more into the court and see what happens.

YouTube could be helpful. At least you can visualize how it's done versus me talking about it. It's difficult to give you pointers without seeing a sample which is why I'm cautious about giving you any more advice. Have fun, and experiment. The toss shouldn't be into the court, but above your head so you can hit the 7 to 2 or 7 to 3.

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[Chas Tennis]

I'm starting to learn to use topspin on my serves to increase consistency and because the extra spins makes for a difficult return.

I brush from about 8 to 2 o'clock. I get some great spin sometimes but its usually very weak. Also, sometimes my kick serves go long and I'm thinking its because of my contact point. I toss the ball over my head but behind the baseline (not inside the court). Is this correct or should I adjust my toss?

Some tips on the kick serve as well help mostly on the toss I described above would be very helpful. Thanks

You have an unknown serving technique. Advice for unknown techniques? ....you are on your own........

The following information shows what I believe most high level servers are doing.

Toss - the often repeated advice to 'toss the ball over your head for the kick serve' does not apply to high level kick serves. The ball is impacted more over the head but the head moves forward from the time of the toss to the time of impact.

Toly composite picture from Fuzzy Yellow Balls rare overhead videos.

Click on the arrow links of these quotes to see the kick serve and the ball contact details.

For most word descriptions of the kick serve how the racket contacts the ball and why is left as a mystery for the reader to figure out.

Toly gif from a 240 fps video.

Unless you have a high speed video camera with a fast shutter and small motions blur, you can screw around for years without any useful feedback on how your technique contacts the ball.

I believe that the side views of the racket contacting the ball are different for the kick and top spin serves. The racket is more closed for the kick serve (closed = high point of face tilted forward). See reference book Technical Tennis, Cross & Lindsey. I don't know if creditable videos are available to establish this point as of 2017.

"Serve pronation is the same as throw pronation." Not in high speed videos it isn't. Elbow bend is different. Also, what is the intended definition of "pronation" as used?

Forward tilt of the racket at impact for gyrospin. Search & see Rod Cross article The Physics of the Kick Serve.

I hate editing too. To make it worse, I shorten my videos on my Casio FH100 before putting them on a computer. The Casio editing is very slow as it rewrites video clips.

I hate practicing. I used to practice and develop many video clips. Viewing later I'd find that the first video clip and all the rest had a bad stroke flaw. Now I've decided that only a few videos of strokes usually have enough info.

If you think that you have a representative serve, record 3 serves and then look at those.

If you know how the racket should move during impact and the tilt that should be there for a kick serve and you have those, then see what else does not look right when compared from the same camera angles.

Here is what I believe the tilt on the racket should be for a kick serve that bounces to the right. Unfortunately, the ball's trajectory and bounce are not known so I can't guarantee a kick serve. You must have the right camera angle to see this.

Single frame - click Vimeo, full screen, hold down the SHIFT KEY & use the ARROW KEYS.

 

[samarai]

the serve is the hardest shot to get right. People play all thier life and sometimes never get it right. Without visuals, it very hard to break down whats going wrong. Its just not a matter of tossing hte ball over your head. Your stroke mechanics may be completely off.

 

[dgold44]

I'm starting to learn to use topspin on my serves to increase consistency and because the extra spins makes for a difficult return.

I brush from about 8 to 2 o'clock. I get some great spin sometimes but its usually very weak. Also, sometimes my kick serves go long and I'm thinking its because of my contact point. I toss the ball over my head but behind the baseline (not inside the court). Is this correct or should I adjust my toss?

Some tips on the kick serve as well help mostly on the toss I described above would be very helpful. Thanks

Get the toss on your left shoulder if you are righty
You must stay sideways and swing the racket to the right

 

[MajesticMoose]

More racquet head speed and focus on keeping your hitting elbow more parallel to the baseline. Don't let the point of your elbow come into the court as much as it would on a flat serve.

 

[LeeD]

LACK OF PRACTICE!
More practice would get you a better kick serve.
Just aim HIGH over the net, make the ball land DEEP in the service box, swing as fast as you can control, and your problems are solved.