ionutzakis
Semi-Pro
If either the mains or crosses break, can I keep the other and install only the one that snaped?
Is it advisable or not?
Thanks
Is it advisable or not?
Thanks
mains/crosses breaks, can I keep the other?
- Thread starter ionutzakis
- Start date
D
Dunlopkid
Guest
EMestizo said:
Right on.
S
snoflewis
Guest
moosryan said:
seriously...people, do a search
diredesire
Adjunct Moderator
moosryan said:
Stickied for now, Hopefully we can get a few other "FAQ" items and build up a FAQ. Anyone interested in compiling one? I'll edit it and sticky!
S
snoflewis
Guest
diredesire said:Stickied for now, Hopefully we can get a few other "FAQ" items and build up a FAQ. Anyone interested in compiling one? I'll edit it and sticky!
there was another thread a couple months back that had more info on this topic...i think that might be a little more helpful than this one.
diredesire
Adjunct Moderator
snoflewis said:
Just leave me a link, and I'll swap 'em
ionutzakis
Semi-Pro
I found a link from 2 years ago
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=18901
it says:
1) NEVER cut the mains and leave the crosses on 'cause it can easily break the racquet head
2) You can try putting the racquet on the stringing machine BEFORE the croses break, then cut the crosses and replace them. But it's risky.
3) If you break crosses/mains you must immediately cut all the strings so that you not put your racquet to uneven stres
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=18901
it says:
1) NEVER cut the mains and leave the crosses on 'cause it can easily break the racquet head
2) You can try putting the racquet on the stringing machine BEFORE the croses break, then cut the crosses and replace them. But it's risky.
3) If you break crosses/mains you must immediately cut all the strings so that you not put your racquet to uneven stres
S
snoflewis
Guest
dandy2fast
Rookie
ionutzakis said:
NO WAY!!!
dandy2fast
Rookie
tlm said:
You can also cross a road numerous time without looking if a car is going to stunt you without a problem... untill the one time a car will blast you... That is basically how risky is the life of your racquet, with your way to string.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
To dandy2fast,You may be correct but do you have any proof of this?I have done my own racquet at least 15 time like this+my wifes which is different 6 times with no problem.
I am not saying you are wrong,i really dont know.I do have a 6 point mount system which may help.But after so many time of doing this with no problem,it just makes me wonder if it is okay.
I am not saying you are wrong,i really dont know.I do have a 6 point mount system which may help.But after so many time of doing this with no problem,it just makes me wonder if it is okay.
michaellashan
Rookie
Last time I checked, strings were way cheaper than racquets. Why take the risk?
If you are going through the process of stringing your racquet, why not string it with a full fresh set of strings?
If you are going through the process of stringing your racquet, why not string it with a full fresh set of strings?
tlm said:
I think another thing you might want to look at is the tension of the mains. Say for instance you use a standard 16g poly in the mains and a synthetic in the crosses that breaks after 2 weeks. Is it possible to restring just the crosses and leave the mains? Yes, it's definitely possible, but is it possible to get the same feel using the mains for a 2nd or even 3rd stringjob? That answer is a resounding no. If a string were able to hold 100% of its tension, then it would be theoretically possible, but no string holds tension that well. When you go to string it that second or third time, your mains could be down to 30-40 pounds of tension (which by the way, you would have almost no possibility of determining). While it may be perfectly possible to restring just the crosses a number of times, it's not really recommended because it lacks anything that would be reproduceable. I suppose if it doesn't bother you, you can't tell the difference, and you aren't stringing for other people that pay you, then it's fine, it's just not suggested.
As far as frame safety goes, that's another topic that I don't feel needs to be covered. I suppose you could always bring that topic up at GSS or with the people at the USRSA and see if they agree with you, but I'm pretty sure they will all say that it just isn't worth it and it is not good practice. Honestly, how much money do you save by reusing mains per stringjob? To me it just seems dumb to potentially damage a frame and certainly end up with a completely different feel from the last string job over a couple of dollars.
dandy2fast
Rookie
tlm said:
Hard to prove it without showing you a live frame breakage, like it is hard to prove to the guy who crossed the road blindly 15 times that it is a risky way to do, because he may cross the rods event 50, 100, 200 times or more before the bad day...
tlm said:
You wonder if it is okay? Well it is not, even on a 6 point mount system.
You know, during a professionnal stringer's formation, they wont actually break frames to prove to the students what is wrong to do, they will only tell you what to do and what not to do, and will at best take the time to explain you why. Knowledge is often transmitted from mouth to mouth, and the best way to do is to trust the peoples who earns the knowledge when explain you somethin ;, and the knowledge about the subject of this thread is typically what pro stringers do transmit from mouth to mouth.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I use natural gut mains+syn. x's,the syn.loses tension a lot faster than the gut.So after a week or so i change the x's only.
This will make my gut play great for a month,otherwise it starts to play poorly after a couple of weeks.I hit at least 2 hours everyday+i like my strings right,after you play a great string combo its hard to go to something less.
The pacific gut costs $34 a set+ i want it to last a long time,i have 2 racquets the same,1 is for practice+1 is for matches.And i have 1 new one in the closet in case i break a frame by just changing the x's.
I am not saying it wont happen,but i will tell you i have done this over 30 times now with no problems.If i were to break 1 frame a year it would still be worth it because of the money i am saving on the strings.
You guys can tell me its stupid+on+on,but you are saying you cant do something that I HAVE DONE OVER 30 TIMES WITH NO PROBLEMS.
This will make my gut play great for a month,otherwise it starts to play poorly after a couple of weeks.I hit at least 2 hours everyday+i like my strings right,after you play a great string combo its hard to go to something less.
The pacific gut costs $34 a set+ i want it to last a long time,i have 2 racquets the same,1 is for practice+1 is for matches.And i have 1 new one in the closet in case i break a frame by just changing the x's.
I am not saying it wont happen,but i will tell you i have done this over 30 times now with no problems.If i were to break 1 frame a year it would still be worth it because of the money i am saving on the strings.
You guys can tell me its stupid+on+on,but you are saying you cant do something that I HAVE DONE OVER 30 TIMES WITH NO PROBLEMS.
i cracked a racket doing so before, when i first learned to string. i use a 2 point system, yours doesn't break probably because yours is a 6 point, plus you didn't string them very tight. yet the structural integrity of your rackets will suffer. if you are a hard hitter who cracks racket once in a while when hitting a ball, you might easily notice that your rackets crack faster stringing your way
anyway, the choice is all yours
anyway, the choice is all yours
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Okay maybe it shouldnt be done,just got done playing a match+ stringbed felt great.With the new x's+the gut mains which are 2 weeks old it felt great.
I know the mains are losing some tension,but nothing like the syn. x's do.I get at least a couple extra weeks out of the gut mains this way,+ what i mean by that is they play close to like new longer.
After a couple of more weeks this stick will be my practice racquet.Then i will take my other racquet which is my practice one right now+string it up new.
Then i will start this cycle over again+ i always have a racquet for matches that plays great!
I know the mains are losing some tension,but nothing like the syn. x's do.I get at least a couple extra weeks out of the gut mains this way,+ what i mean by that is they play close to like new longer.
After a couple of more weeks this stick will be my practice racquet.Then i will take my other racquet which is my practice one right now+string it up new.
Then i will start this cycle over again+ i always have a racquet for matches that plays great!
tlm
G.O.A.T.
In the last week i have changed the x's only twice with no problems.I am not trying to brag,i am just again making the point that for something you should never do, i sure havent had any problems.
The reason i did it that quickly is i am experimenting with different x's,i know what mains i want.This is just another benefit of this method.You can try different x's without changing mains!
The reason i did it that quickly is i am experimenting with different x's,i know what mains i want.This is just another benefit of this method.You can try different x's without changing mains!
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Just purchased new aeropro,strung mains with my usual pacific toughgut+x's with laserfibre.I want to experiment with different x's, i have had the racquet 4 days+ i have changed x's 3 times.
I think i found the perfect x's in babolat xcell premium.It is amazing how just different x's change the way a racquet plays,the excell tames the power down+takes the harshness out of this stiff stick.
So you boys can add 3 more times to the amount of times i have strung the x's only,with no problems!!
I think i found the perfect x's in babolat xcell premium.It is amazing how just different x's change the way a racquet plays,the excell tames the power down+takes the harshness out of this stiff stick.
So you boys can add 3 more times to the amount of times i have strung the x's only,with no problems!!
onkystomper
Hall of Fame
all right well done. i am glad it is working for you. i myself am worried about doing it though
onkystomper
Hall of Fame
What frame are you using Tim? I am sorely tempted to give this a go now. Due to the rubbish xcel premium i have in my crosses. I dont want to waste the gut in my mains
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I have been doing it for a long time on a babolat pure control,i have done it over 30 times on that stick.I now have an aeropro+have already done this 4 times after having the racquet only a week.
I have also done it on my wifes head ix16,her new ncode n62+ my buddys head lm prestige.Like i said before for something everybody says you shoudnt do i have had no problems.
I always use pacific toughgut+ i feel it is the best string period,but i need to tame it down with a syn. x's.And your point is exactly why i started doing this the gut outlasts any syn.10-1.
Even when i was happy the syn. x's i was using i would change the syn. x's after a week or so because the string was shot+ the gut mains are just broke in.
It is a great way to find out what x's works the best without changing the gut main.I have a gamma x-6 fc stringer+it is a 6 point mount,which i think helps me get away with it.
By the way i take it you werent to happy with the excell, i am so dissapointed that string was just what i wanted in a x's it was perfect with my set up.But afer only 3 days of hitting it went to hell,nothing even close to the new string feel.
I have also done it on my wifes head ix16,her new ncode n62+ my buddys head lm prestige.Like i said before for something everybody says you shoudnt do i have had no problems.
I always use pacific toughgut+ i feel it is the best string period,but i need to tame it down with a syn. x's.And your point is exactly why i started doing this the gut outlasts any syn.10-1.
Even when i was happy the syn. x's i was using i would change the syn. x's after a week or so because the string was shot+ the gut mains are just broke in.
It is a great way to find out what x's works the best without changing the gut main.I have a gamma x-6 fc stringer+it is a 6 point mount,which i think helps me get away with it.
By the way i take it you werent to happy with the excell, i am so dissapointed that string was just what i wanted in a x's it was perfect with my set up.But afer only 3 days of hitting it went to hell,nothing even close to the new string feel.
onkystomper
Hall of Fame
No i am very dissapointed with it! I have had it in there for 3 hours of hitting and maybe 5 days now. It is just nasty. I take it you mount the racket before you cut the crosses out. Then just string them like they were new crosses?
RipinRandy
New User
Don't do it
Never buy a used racket from tlm...lol ;-) especially not a Pure Control...
Never buy a used racket from tlm...lol ;-) especially not a Pure Control...
tlm
G.O.A.T.
What ever you say ripinrandy,again over 40 times on different racquets.But i know you cant do this,even though i do with no problems+the rest of you say it cant be done.
How many of the nay sayers have done this+broke a frame?I want some proof not wisetales. By the way ripinrandy why do you say especially on a pure control?
How many of the nay sayers have done this+broke a frame?I want some proof not wisetales. By the way ripinrandy why do you say especially on a pure control?
onkystomper
Hall of Fame
Well as i had a racket which was strung 2 piece and the Xcel was horrible after only 2 sets i took the plunge and cut them out. I replaced them with gut so i have a full gut job. All went well. Only thing that happened was the frame stretched quite a bitwhen i took the crosses out. No real Drama though as it went straight back with the crosses!!
onkystomper
Hall of Fame
yeah my crosses had been in for about 30 mins hitting and 2 days overall
RipinRandy
New User
Also remember--every time you restring a racket, you break it down a little. Pros will only string their racket a certain number of times before they retire it. I remember reading about Steffi Graf's pile of retired rackets.
The racket isn't going to explode when you restring just the crosses, it just puts additional strain on what is already a strenuous process. It is INTERNAL damage. When you look at the racket you WON'T see the damage you are doing. You can't tell what is going on inside the frame, that's why you take every precaution you can to protect the frame.
BTW---I said don't buy a used pure control from tlm because you have restrung it so many times...it was a joke.
The racket isn't going to explode when you restring just the crosses, it just puts additional strain on what is already a strenuous process. It is INTERNAL damage. When you look at the racket you WON'T see the damage you are doing. You can't tell what is going on inside the frame, that's why you take every precaution you can to protect the frame.
BTW---I said don't buy a used pure control from tlm because you have restrung it so many times...it was a joke.
With all due respect, RipinRandy might be crazy. This thread deomstrates no sense of perspective and obviously no understanding why professionals would never cut out and replace crosses. In addition to being dangerous to the frame, and perhaps more important, is the playability. You are not going to be able to achieve any consistency with your stringbed. The mains will be stretched, notched and out of shape. To replace new crosses can lead to a wildly different tension variance in mains and crosses. This will definitely impact the feel and playability. I am suggesting that anyone who is not able to detect this drastic of a difference is very insensitive to racquet feel and playability. I can not give credibility to feedback from players who are incapable of noticing this trade-off.
Bottomline...don't do it. Not worth it. STAN has spoken. It is law.
Bottomline...don't do it. Not worth it. STAN has spoken. It is law.
RipinRandy
New User
Stan said:
Huh? Why am I crazy? I said don't do it...
Jerry Seinfeld
Professional
Stan said:
wonder_wall
Rookie
Hey folks, back for a minute! Busy summer!RipinRandy said:
I think this is a great question. Nice sticky. Dd now can sticky things? Great!
Anyway, here's I think a great question for this thread and I think a great idea (blowing my own horn), and perhaps this is implicit in some of the responses, but I haven't read a message that specifically mentions it:
SCENARIO: BB Alu mains, synth crosses, YOU OWN YOUR OWN MACHINE. So, synth breaks quickly and easily. ALU is expensive, don't want to constantly replace, that's one reason for using ALU. Synth fairly cheap, don't care about replacing it frequently and want additional feel it gives.
IDEA: DO NOT LET SYNTH BREAK! RESTRING *BEFORE* THEN (i.e. try to catch it just before): At that point, mount racket on stringing machine, CUT UNBROKEN CROSSES after mounting, remove string, restring crosses - voila - cheap BB ALU string job, longevity PLUS FEEL! What do others think?
QUESTION: Would any good stringers out there find any good reason why this would be worse for the racket than what naturally happens when racket is in machine with mains strung and before crosses strung? I'd say perhaps the ALU has lost some tension, hence tension forces on racket perhaps not as identical as they were when freshly strung (this point could be perhaps defeated by each time you do this lowering tension on crosses a bit more).
ADDITIONAL QUESTION: What would most advisable order of cutting strings be? (Short, safe-seeming answer: middle outward, s/b fairly safe middle of the road type selection. Other choices: cut in reverse order strung, i.e. bottom up.)
diredesire
Adjunct Moderator
wonder_wall said:
Actually, wonder_wall, you bring up some great points! You make a good argument for the structural integrity of a frame by pre-mounting, and saying that it is not as bad as stringing the frame normally. I thought about it, and I more or less agree. This is assuming you've mounted it well, but i guess that goes unsaid. The only problem with that theory I have is that instead of the post-string cutting, we must think about the post racquet dismount.
The major argument here is that the tension of the mains may be very, very different from what they once were. You can get away with this using some strings (such as kevlar, or poly) because they'll play similarly (dead) regardless of the tension. The point we try to get across is that these strings may have lost a good 10-15+ lbs during the duration of play, and you may be stringing the crosses at the same tension. A 10-15 lb tension differential isn't a great thing for any frame.
I'd cut the strings out middle outwards
Good points, though!
wonder_wall
Rookie
diredesire said:
Thanks for the response.
I would think "my idea" would be popular among the cheapskates out here!
As far as 10-15lb tension difference, based on my stringmeter readings, that's a little bit high, especially given the target audience. Target audience would be types who like BB ALU but who want a softer string in the crosses and who break string very frequently. I'd say 10-15 lbs for those frequent string breakers is probably high. I've tested for tension loss using stringmeter and the most I've ever seen is something like 5-10 pounds. Not saying 15 lbs isn't possible, but I think it's unlikely.
Anyway, I don't use ALU, but I thought for those who do and who have a predictable string breaking pattern and who are cheap, it would be an interesting idea! But then again, I guess they'd need to have their own stringing machines since the establishment stringers I don't think would do this stringjob for the typical guy (as indicated by some of the responses in this thread), even though there shouldn't be much or any significant harm to the racket I don't believe, if it's properly mounted, with unbroken strings cut *after* mounting.
SW Stringer
Semi-Pro
Stan said:
An obvious hijacking of the Man Law beer commercial - hope you didn't have to consume massive quantities of beer to come up with this post - it would have been a waste of brain cells!
To tim: don't hold your breath on a reply from STAN - he probably doesn't even remember making the post.
I think you can safely ignore the posters who haven't tried what you've accomplished many times - their only response is to overuse the FUD factor - i.e. handwaving, pontificating, spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt on a practice that obviously works and has economic justification. I've also replaced the X's on hybrids with Nat Gut mains but only a handful of times, but I'm encouraged by your results. Thanks for putting up with the deluge of naysayers who have no factual basis with which to make their claims.
sypl
Rookie
This may be a bit outta left field but...
Couldn't there be an argument made that keeping one set of strings in whilst stringing the other might be better for the racket, in that it would prevent warping. Strings exert a lot of pressure on the frame; if you take them all out in one go and then immediately string 'em tight again isn't that more likely to lead to structural damage? After all, you're letting all the pressure go in one lot and then putting it all back on again. It's by this principle that you're advised NOT to take all the strings out of your guitar at once: if you do then there's a good chance your neck, having lost all tension, will change shape and be unplayable when you put new strings in.
Couldn't there be an argument made that keeping one set of strings in whilst stringing the other might be better for the racket, in that it would prevent warping. Strings exert a lot of pressure on the frame; if you take them all out in one go and then immediately string 'em tight again isn't that more likely to lead to structural damage? After all, you're letting all the pressure go in one lot and then putting it all back on again. It's by this principle that you're advised NOT to take all the strings out of your guitar at once: if you do then there's a good chance your neck, having lost all tension, will change shape and be unplayable when you put new strings in.
