Mardy Fish the New #1 American...Whats wrong with American tennis?

[Ludwig von Mises]

Wow.

Vince Spadea is a clown.

And Sock, Isner, Querry, YOung, Roddick, Harrison, Sweeeting aren't? At least Vince has delicious, malicious, lyrical style with high profile.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8110311.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVBKN8kDUpA


and btw, I doubt that Isner could even do this, because he's so slow and goofy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWnx-WXq0T8

 

[Pozarevacka]

From most of these posts it seems like everyone would like their respective governments to raise the taxes, in order to somehow subsidize private sporting competitors, so you guys can get into more nationalist fighting about tennis.

And we wonder why every government in the world (that doesn't have oil) is broke. Idiots like you are in charge.

 

[rickwestland]

1.tennis is more popular in those countries. In spain it's like the #2 or 3 sport and in france it's #4 or #5. and in the USA it's barely a top 10 sport now.

yeap, a couple of years ago, I went to watch the US Open women's final with a few friends at a hooter's, couldn't find one tv showing the game, and was told by it's "Football Day".

 

[rickwestland]

If the US wanted security they could have saved 500 billion spent on the wars and used the remaining money to secure the US and implement some of Israel's defensive security measures.

Without US support, none of its measures would have mattered.

 

[Kobble]

Which explains why Roddick owns Djokovic H-2-H, beat Nadal in Nadal's beat year and one of Roddick's worst (2008 Dubai and Miami last year). Please, if you're going to state facts please be accurate; The only top 5 player with a winning record over Roddick in slams is actually Federer. So yeah. Roddick was past his prime before Nadal and Djokovic became who they were. Blake had weapons to compete with them but never really adopted a sensible gameplan and invested in a great coach to really have a good career. For the most part, Federer was simply way too good for players such as Roddick/Blake and other Americans. Nothing to be ashamed of.





In fact the most sucessful player out of the three above good US players was the least talented. Roddick can say at the end of the day he did his best with what he did in his prime; However changing his aggressive style was an epic-fail. Blake and Fish have far more tools to work with yet clowned about losing to poor opposition for 90% of their careers.





In 5-8 years time Dimitrov will dominate, you'll see.

Roddick 5 wins vs. Djokovic 3 wins

Roddick 3 wins vs. Murray 6 wins

Murray is a top 5 player. So, get your facts straight.

 

[15_ounce]

..It's amazing how a country like France or Spain can have so many awesome players with 1/4 of the population...
...

It's about QUALITY, not QUANTITY.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Its about social construct. Team sports are pushed all throughout school. They’re cheaper, easier to hide your faults and weaknesses by relying on team mates, less stress, less pressure on the parents, the players etc. In tennis you’re either a winner or a loser. In team sports you can white wash that and spread the blame around and tell people that they played well but the team just didn’t “gel today”. Tennis is basically boxing for rich people. It’s man vs man but without the physical contact. It’s a hard sell and to be successful at it you basically have to have parents that push their kids when they’re young. And Western countries frown on pushy parents. But really, a sport like tennis or other individual endeavors like gymnastics will only succeed with pushy parents. You can’t wait until your kid is 20 years old to decide for himself to become a pro player. It’s too late by then. When a kid is mature enough to know what they want it’s too late, and when they’re young enough they don’t know what they want. So it’s a catch 22 especially in western cultures.

Great points. If you look at activities that have taken off in popularity it is the group/social sports, especially at the school age level. Individual sports that involve a lot of skill and are highly competitive have declined in popularity. Nobody wants their kid coming off the field/court feeling like a "loser", a situation that is inevitable in any individual sport.

 

[newmark401]

I think Spain must be doing something better than France because Spain has managed to produce one great champion - Nadal - and several other very good players, including major winners, though "only" on clay and mostly in the men's game.

Yet France was the dominant force in men's tennis in the late 1920's and early 1930's - and had a supreme champion in Suzanne Lenglen in the years 1919-26. And France is still capable of producing junior world champions, but no major winners in the adult men's game. Strange.

 

[joeri888]

It's only a matter of time before Mardy Fish passes Andy Roddick for the number 1 ranking in the USA....Now what does that say about American tennis? It's reached a new low!...Congrats to Mardy for dropping 35lbs and going from a underachiever to a decent player...It only took him 13 years to figure that one out...
But really who's the up and coming 18 year US male tennis player?....or the 23 year old American in his prime kicking butt....there is no one...so sad...stick a fork in American tennis it's dead....It's amazing how a country like France or Spain can have so many awesome players with 1/4 of the population...

Anyone have the answers? I thought Patrick McEnroe and the USTA were building super training facilities and programs to develop young talent...

I never thought I'd say it but watching golf is more interesting now...

Says it all.. You are the problem. You don't give a damn about the sports if you are not kicking ass yourself.

Americans rather watch American football, baseball or basketball, because their league's the only decent one.

Young kids aren't encouraged to play tennis.

 

[joeri888]

I think Spain must be doing something better than France because Spain has managed to produce one great champion - Nadal - and several other very good players, including major winners, though "only" on clay and mostly in the men's game.

Yet France was the dominant force in men's tennis in the late 1920's and early 1930's - and had a supreme champion in Suzanne Lenglen in the years 1919-26. And France is still capable of producing junior world champions, but no major winners in the adult men's game. Strange.

Maybe they lack mentality. However, it's quite a small sample of course. I mean, imo Monfils and Tsonga have performed to their capability. A French Nadal could be born one day. Federer could have been born 100 miles to the west and might still be as good as he is today.

 

[cucio]

I think Spain must be doing something better than France

Here is an interesting tidbit: if I am not mistaken, Nadal is at 24 y.o. (soon 25) the second youngest Spanish player in the top 100, only behind Pere Riba (ranked 74, age 22).

So how do you explain that void of good players between ages 18 and 25? The only explanation I have is statistical anomaly, a.k.a. sheer dumb luck, nothing the Spanish Federation should be especially proud about. It just happened that 1980-1986 were vintage years for the Spanish tennis gene pool, like it happened a few years before in the USA.

 

[Hewex]

Sweden had it going for a while too..Borg, Willander, Edberg....

 

[813wilson]

I still love watching GOOD tennis....maybe from the semi on these days....just look at the Palm Springs event...Nadals first 4 matches are against qualifiers? How lame is that....

Face it ,in men's tennis you can tell about 90% of the time who's going to win the match....there is very little mystery....doubles is actually more entertaining...

Women's tennis....is just a big joke.....Crispy Creme Woz as number 1 LOL

You're contradicting yourself within the post.

1) Nadal beat three qualifiers at IW. And, he can't control who he plays.
2) two of the three beat seeded players. no mystery there.....
3) look at the draw - no way 90% of the wins were predictable.
4) same thing in Miami

 

[Setmatch45]

Why is America bad? Easy look at all sports. Basketball has become all about the dunk in the upcoming years we won't win intermational basketball tourney's. The people in other countries work harder and have the basics down. Baseball is all about the homer ask a good hitter the bunt - not a chance. Football is all about the high hit - I played football and as a kid was never instructed to hit high but in college and beyond I hit high only to have head problems now in my 40's. So now lets look at tennis. Andy serves hugh he can't volley had a better forehand when he was younger has only a marginal backhand. His serve and fitness has kept him in the top 10 for a long time now. Mardy has a huge serve and probably a bit stronger than Andy in all other shots the difference was fitness now that he has that I am not at all suprised as what has gone on. Isner - serve than really nothing other than a forehand. Young - just nothing but a Nike contract. Sock -who knows. People from other countries want it more they are first tought the basics I go back to basketball - when was the last time a superstar play great d or box someone out? Never same thing in tennis the serve is the dunk and not many of our guys really get past that. I hope it changes soon! One more thing I am hoping Sam tries to improve he could be our future next few years with Mardy and Andy getting older. Also will there be an American in the top ten after the clay court stuff is over? That is the grind service players must work harder.

 

[CDestroyer]

Is it a suprise that the US doesnt lead in all sports, technology, science etc?Other countries are better at many things. Other countries pro tennis players are much better than the US players.

 

[Setmatch45]

You are correct about technology and science - but it does not take the place of hard work and the will to win.

 

[Pozarevacka]

Baseball is all about the homer ask a good hitter the bunt - not a chance.

Home Runs in baseball since 2010 have been stagnant and actually going down.

Basketball has become all about the dunk in the upcoming years we won't win intermational basketball tourney's.

USA won the gold in the 2008 Olympics and the 2010 FIBA World Championship

Football is all about the high hit - I played football and as a kid was never instructed to hit high but in college and beyond I hit high only to have head problems now in my 40's.

This is as a result of doctors/government/and everyone cousin being involved in how football is played. Below the waist tackling and blocking can result in a penalty. Helmet to helmet contact is illegal. Not sure about the high hit because at normal places wrapping your arms around the waist is what is taught.



America is just not in a good place right now because there is a dull talent period. Happens to every country. Watch 10 years from now and America has 5 guys in the top 10 and everybody will talk about why doesn't the rest of the world have any talent.

 

[Setmatch45]

When was the last time this has happened in America?

 

[Setmatch45]

In basketball I stated in the future. If wwe swnd our best and we must send our best we win but close. It was not that long ago we did not even send NBA players. We won easy than!

 

[vandre]

No need to panic. There is Isner, Querrey, Harrison, Sweeting, Sock, and Young.

that's exactly why panic is in order! lol! :twisted:

 

[Setmatch45]

With the offerings in this country this should not be a problem. The problem is the kids do not want to put the effort in. I also do get that if your a great great athlete other sports are more attractive. Meaning they pay better and you don't have to travel the world with a 6 to 8 week off season. Guys out of the top 100 have a hard time making ends meet the worst veteran baseball player in the majors is worth Millions.

 

[Dilettante]

I think Spain must be doing something better than France because Spain has managed to produce one great champion - Nadal - and several other very good players, including major winners, though "only" on clay and mostly in the men's game.

As someone pointed before, Nadal is not a product of the Spain's tennis academies system. The Spanish system is obviously very good if not the best in the world right now, but Nadal has nothing to do with it. He's a standalone phenomenon.

Also, academies can produce good players, but the all time greats require special some random individual traits, not only good academies.

Sorry for the offtopic but:

USA won the gold in the 2008 Olympics and the 2010 FIBA World Championship

You have to admit that the gap between the USA and the rest of the world has become smaller. Some time ago, it was unthinkable that any national team could defy an USA professional team. Right now, Spain and Argentina for example can defy the USA and they even succeeded at some point.

Also, there was a time when it was unthinkable a Spaniard like Gasol, formed in the Spain's system, could be playing in the Lakers' starting five and being the sidekick of a dominant superstar like Kobe Bryant. No one in Spain could imagine that, 20 years ago. It was simply not possible. In fact, it was unthinkable that someone from Spain could be the leader even in a smaller team like Memphis.

I agree with who said American basketball has become slighty duller. NBA is still the undisputed world basketball's Mecca, but guys from many other countries are catching up. Every expert's list agree in their NBA's current best players lists: always a significative number of foreigners among the top players. Think about it. Basketball was a pure USA sport like baseball or NFL are. With the difference that the rest of the world actually liked it (unlike NFL and baseball who are deadly boring to most foreigners) and the world started playing it even with no hopes of winning. It was science-fiction thinking that the world could catch up with the USA in their own American game. But it's happening, to some extent at least.

If that happened with basketball, an American game, it's no wonder it could happen with tennis, which is an European game and has a lot of tradition in many countries.

 

[ksbh]

What's right with it?!

 

[rabidranger]

I'd rather ask what's right with the Spanish and Eastern European tennis models? That's where all the top male and female players seem to be coming from these days.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

Here is an excerpt from an article that is somewhat eye opening to the problem.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------




What’s the problem here for the USTA? Listen to Solomon, the 1976 runner-up at the French Open and a consistent top-10 player during his career.

“It’s a very expensive proposition and this is a very big country. What works in France and Spain doesn’t necessarily work here,” said Solomon, as he pointed out that the USTA, which began with a training camp in Boca Raton, Fla., has now added Carson, Calif., the United States Tennis Center in Flushing, N.Y., where the Open is played, plus a series of satellite centers around the nation. In addition to the 20 coaches and various secretaries and other office personnel, there are another 22 people employed as supervising support staff for the program.

We really need to spend all this money? That would be fine if it was producing something, but where are the results?

“I’m kind of shocked there’s not more of an outcry from people,” said Solomon. “People should be asking, ‘Are you guys getting the job done and, if not, what do we need to do and how do we do it.’ ”

Solomon has his own views on that subject and he begins by pointing out that the USTA has never developed a top player. Andy Roddick? Spent his junior career with a couple of private coaches. Mardy Fish? He was in the same group with Roddick. The Williams sisters? Coached by private academy coach Rick Macci in Florida and by their father, Richard. John Isner? Four years at the University of Georgia. Sam Querrey? Private coaches in California.

“A number of academies do a very good job,” said Solomon. “The USTA should just certify an academy based on certain criteria and let young players have the choice of going where they want to go so that the USTA doesn’t have to put together this huge bureaucracy that is getting bigger and bigger all the time. There is a much less expensive way of doing things.”

There was a time when the USTA jealousy guarded “its” players, minimizing contact with private academies altogether. That has changed under the McEnroe regime. A player getting USTA financial help today can go to Bollettieri’s or Nick Saviano’s in Sunrise, Fla., or to Solomon’s academy in Fort Lauderdale or just about anywhere else, as long as the USTA remains involved.

Meanwhile, the USTA maintains its own facility in Boca Raton on the site of the Evert Tennis Academy, complete with dorms and cafeteria. The problem, as Solomon sees it, is that it’s largely a waste of money. Why not just let the private academies do what they do best. Produce players.

“These foreign kids out there are hungry, hungry, hungry,” said Solomon, drawing the difference between them and U.S. players.

Not long ago, the USTA asked Solomon to run a week-long camp at his academy for some of the USTA’s prospects.

“I tried to put them through a week of what it will take to be successful in professional tennis,” said Solomon. “And they looked at me as if I’m crazy. This is something we don’t really want to do, they were saying. They weren’t up to the task. It’s not in their culture. That culture needs to shift in American tennis.”

He advocates smaller national junior tournaments, more elite, not open to everyone who picks up a racket. It needs to be special, he said, so that only the most committed players get in.

When Solomon came out of college to turn pro during one of the golden ages of American tennis, if you were a top U.S. player, you were a top player in the world. You were toughened and highly committed. “I don’t want to refer to it as the good old days, but if you won the opening set of a match, you probably were going to win the match. We were mentally tougher than players from other parts of the world,” he said.

That attitude, Solomon said, has shifted. “I shake my head at this last group of Americans. We had seven guys who should have been top 10, but most of them didn’t have the work ethic to reach their potential.” The names of Robby Ginepri, Taylor Dent and Mardy Fish came out.

I’ve known Harold Solomon for years. This isn’t some guy with an anti-USTA agenda or trying to square a fight with someone. This is one of the most thoughtful, incisive minds in the game and a man who has coached Jim Courier, Monica Seles, Mary Joe Fernandez, Jennifer Capriati and Anna Kournikova.

People need to listen to what Harold Solomon has to say. Not just listen, but take his advice.


http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/3175

 

[Setmatch45]

Ok two points

First - Baseball is a huge latin sport so again America is not in control.

Second and the negative to Spain's as well as the French approach. They are sending kids at young ages to academy's the are spending countless hours at there given craft. Not only tennis but other sports as well. School and education take a back seat to sports.

We see the best products of this system but what about the guys who do not make it? I guess places like IMG are the same type of deal? I have only been into tennis for about three years but would assume that IMG is that way.

 

[Dilettante]

We see the best products of this system but what about the guys who do not make it?

Academies have no room/money to develope those players who can't really make it. So the system makes its own selection and guys who can't make it are put out of it.

And those players who are in academies just by paying, it's up to the parents to decide if they wanna keep their children focusing in tennis and spending money while having no hopes of becoming successful pros.

First - Baseball is a huge latin sport so again America is not in control.

Why do you mean by "latin"? Spain, France, Italy, Portugal those are Latin countries and baseball is virtually unknown there.

You mean Cuba and countries like that? Maybe a handful of American countries play baseball, also Japan if I'm not mistaken, but most of the world couldn't care less about it. BTW it's perceived as an USA game, no matter if other countries mastered it too.

 

[Setmatch45]

How many players from Spanish speaking countries are in the mlb? 30% even at 20% we are no longer in control.

 

[rabidranger]

Reading that Soloman article, a few issues come immediately to mind:

1) The American notion of throwing money at a problem until it goes away. Doesn't work with the USTA it would seem.

2) A sense of entitlement amongst many American youth, playing the game or otherwise.

3) Poor work ethic. Relates to point #2, and is seen throughout American society, not just tennis. The article cites Fish, and look how long it took for him to "get it."

My guess is the next great American player will probably not be home grown, but will be an immigrant who has aquired citizenship. I suppose a guy like Harrison has a chance, but we'll have to see.

 

[billsgwn]

From most of these posts it seems like everyone would like their respective governments to raise the taxes, in order to somehow subsidize private sporting competitors, so you guys can get into more nationalist fighting about tennis.

And we wonder why every government in the world (that doesn't have oil) is broke. Idiots like you are in charge.

I have been thinnking the same thing. The ones who want our govt to fund tennis here in America havent heard that we are already 14 trillion in debt? We cant even get the crooks in DC to cut anything out of the budget yet you want them to add another expense?

 

[Inner Game]

You're contradicting yourself within the post.

1) Nadal beat three qualifiers at IW. And, he can't control who he plays.
2) two of the three beat seeded players. no mystery there.....
3) look at the draw - no way 90% of the wins were predictable.
4) same thing in Miami

Well that is true, which just goes to show you after the Top 5 anyone can win...which just solidifies that tennis is so watered down now....