Modern tennis and open stance

[julian]

I get your point and think we are on a similar page, but I don't agree that the ")" is a good enough example of the best ATP swings. I'd say it's more like the Nike swish or a cam...and that difference is important, thus the emphasis on this part of the technique. I could agree the intent for the swing shape is set early, but that there is that change of direction that is factored in to that intent for the best swings. I know I've been able to improve players swings who didn't get enough change of direction and Imo the big key to the ATP over the WTA is how it is more direct to the ball at first, then gets a sharper change in direction to augment the acceleration. I feel that the WTA swing is more like your " ) ", thus lacks the accel and spin of the ATP style (in general).....All this talk of ATP vs WTA Fhs and this is a big part of what it comes down to here. This and one other main issue.

Hi,
any chance you may use shorter sentences?
I gave your post to three coaches and all of them brought the issue of shorter sentences and spaces.
Thank you

 

[julian]

I was not able to start the video you provided.
Thank you

Concept is similar to this Don Budge forehand weight shift video, (Budge pic demonstrates forehand, not backhand).

On the one-handed bh, you get into a neutral or closed stance. At the beginning of the stroke, the weight should be primarily loaded on the back foot. At contact, the weight should have shifted primarily onto the front foot. At follow through, tap your back toe to check that weight has properly shifted to front foot.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Video

 

[Raul_SJ]

I have not seen the video yet.

1) The frame shown looks like what is done in walking, the center of mass of the body moves toward the forward foot. In walking the center of mass of the body has a nearly constant velocity except when starting. When starting the body's center of mass is accelerated. Does the video say acceleration plays some part?

2) Does the video mention how Budge's 'weight shift' movement might contribute to racket head speed or just say that this always accompanies higher paced strokes?

The video does not mention acceleration or racquet head speed. It just states,
"Proper weight shift and balance is essential... To start the forehand drive, shift your weight to the right foot. On the forward swing, the weight shifts to the left foot. The force of the entire body is behind the swing."

In this thread, some are claiming that Guga is shifting his weight back onto the left foot after contact on the backhand. Having a scale beneath each foot looks like it would give a definitive answer?

If Guga is indeed shifting his weight back after contact, how does that affect his center of mass?

 

[Chas Tennis]

The video does not mention acceleration or racquet head speed. It just states,
"Proper weight shift and balance is essential... To start the forehand drive, shift your weight to the right foot. On the forward swing, the weight shifts to the right foot. The force of the entire body is behind the swing."

In this thread, some are claiming that Guga is shifting his weight back onto the left foot after contact on the backhand. Having a scale beneath each foot looks like it would give a definitive answer?

If Guga is indeed shifting his weight back after contact, how does that affect his center of mass?

"...To start the forehand drive, shift your weight to the right foot. On the forward swing, the weight shifts to the right foot......" Is this just repeating the same thing?

Could someone identify a Kuerten backhand and point out what is meant? Is high speed video available?

Interpreting what the phrase "shifting his weight back after contact" means is the problem.

1) If you move your center of mass back and put your left foot on the ground and apply forces to stop yourself and get back into balance, then you are stopped and the weight measured under your back foot would be higher. If you keep moving that is different.

2) I see what is meant but I don't see any way discussed to show how that slow 'weight shifting' step gets into racket head speed. If forward, it might add 5 MPH? Then what?

Saying that the kinetic chain or energy flow takes care of everything somehow does not have enough specific detail. Worse, by thinking about weight transfer, the kinetic chain, and energy flow, without specific mechanisms that show how forces are applied to the racket handle, might cause us to miss what is really happening.

One possibility is that some muscles have been pre-stretched and at the right time - say when some large body parts slow down and are no longer providing large forces - then that pre-stretched muscle is ready to add to racket head speed. Energy is put into those muscles before the large body part stops, it is not "transferred' somehow as the large body part stops.

The part played by the stretch shorten cycle does not seem to be well handled in the kinetic chain concept. Even when Elliott et al first saw that the largest contributor to racket head speed for the serve was from internal shoulder rotation, powered by pre-stretched muscles, they noticed that there was a problem with the kinetic chain treatment.
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...nk_in_proximal-to-distal_segmental_sequencing

 

[RetroSpin]

I think the kinetic chain model is too simple to capture the involvement of the multitude of muscles in the shoulder and back, plus the spine "engine."

I have never felt that leg power added much to groundstrokes, so I would like to see a study of ground force pressures in high level strokes. I would also like to see a study of the difference in pace of strokes struck with "ideal" leg action versus improvised strokes where a player is stretched.

 

[Raul_SJ]

"...To start the forehand drive, shift your weight to the right foot. On the forward swing, the weight shifts to the right foot......" Is this just repeating the same thing?

Sorry, it was a typo. It should read. "...To start the forehand drive, shift your weight to the right foot. On the forward swing, the weight shifts to the left foot......"

Could someone identify a Kuerten backhand and point out what is meant? Is high speed video available? Interpreting what the phrase "shifting his weight back after contact" means is the problem.

I don't immediately see it but Oscar says he coached a junior Guga to shift his weight back and Indianballer says he sees Guga doing it frequently on video.

In the Oscar backhand video, he says, "I'm going to go from the front foot to the back foot to make it explode...Coaching theory says you have to step into the ball but you get more power going backwards." Oscar compares this shift back movement to a pendulum but I am not clear what he means.