carguy01123
New User
What are the most common mistakes with the two handed backhand in terms of form and technique?
Most common mistakes with the two handed backhand?
- Thread starter carguy01123
- Start date
I find that a lot of people don't get their shoulders turned far enough, which limits how fast you can swing, and forces you to use your arms/wrists more. I used to be like that, and my wrist would hurt all the time. I also couldn't get much spin on the ball either. I had no idea how some college players could hit with as much spin on their backhands as I could on my forehand! I went to a coach and he fixed my flaw, and now I'm one of those college players that some people are baffled by. Now that I'm aware of that flaw, I tend to see it right away when another player has it. I've not yet seen one who could consistently hit a spinny ball like that. Maybe once in a while, but the majority of their shots are flat, and inconsistent.
mrpeterman
Banned
I see a lot of amateurs and juniors closing their racket on the back swing. They bring it back and the racket face is parallel to the ground and then they have to turn their wrist and open the racket right at contact. It's easy to imagine that this extra step would lead to problems. I also see unnecessarily big lopping back swings.
Topspin Shot
Legend
One issue I see on some people's two handers is that their hands don't work well together. In other words, these players have one hand doing one thing while the other hand is doing something else that obstructs the first hand. The end result is a flipping of the racket face, along with a loss of smoothness in the swing.
DavaiMarat
Professional
This....
The tension between the hands, unequal, can be devastating to the 2HB. This leads to an abbreviated swing, stiffness as well the inability to drop the racquet below the ball. The 2HB like the Forehand has to be loose and fast if the hands are working against each other this is impossible.
Jeff Salensteinz..(spelling) has a great little video about looseness of the hands in the 2HB. Once you learn to feel how to hit the 2HB loosely and not muscling it you will see much easier it is and how many more options you have (rather drilling it hard and flat each time).
Hope this helped.
mightyrick
Legend
I'm two months into the two-handed backhand and this is the exact problem I'm having. Initially, I was more swiping *across* the ball. It has been so tough to break this instinctual habit.
However, I do know that once I did start (forcibly) bending my knees, I am able to get a much better turn of the trunk and shoulders... and really get some pop on the ball.
But I still have to force myself to do it. Doesn't come naturally, yet.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Balance was it for me.
Now I split and turn completely to the side unless its a wide ball. That means my toes face the side fence.
Line up my left foot to the ball so spacing and balance is correct, and then step and hit.
Other common mistake - pulling my head off the ball too early.
To fix : I think this the whole time while I play - "hit out in front, eyes on the ball".
Now I split and turn completely to the side unless its a wide ball. That means my toes face the side fence.
Line up my left foot to the ball so spacing and balance is correct, and then step and hit.
Other common mistake - pulling my head off the ball too early.
To fix : I think this the whole time while I play - "hit out in front, eyes on the ball".
TimeSpiral
Professional
I have no idea what the most common mistakes are, but; I've developed the shot into something I love. It's quickly becoming one of my favorite shots: the backhand topspin, or the backhand block/drive/bunt.
- Make sure your right hand is on the bottom.
- There are two primary grips (for righty's).
- RH = Continental, LH = Semi-Western. This is your topspin grip.
- RH = Eastern, LH = Semi-Western. This is your block, drive, or bunt grip. When dealing with heavy pace, like a first serve, or a cracked FH, use this grip to use your opponent's pace and just redirect the ball.
- Left-hand dominant for the Right-handed player.
- This is probably the hardest thing for the player developing this shot to deal with. Your right hand will want to take over, especially if you already have a good 1HBH slice / volley.
- Drill: Hold the racquet in your LH (semi-western) but choked up into the position it would be with your two-hander > stand on the service line > feed a ball to yourself > hit a soft LH FH cross court > repeat.
- Drill: Hold the racquet in your LH (semi-western) but choked up into the position it would be with your two-hander > put two fingers from your right hand on the butt of the racquet > stand in no-man's-land > feed a ball to yourself > hit an easy 2HBH cross court > repeat.
- Gradually, move all the way to the baseline, and gradually increase the role your right hand plays until you're in the full-grip. But don't underestimate the value of drilling with just the left-hand, then a limited right-hand role. This quite literally informs your body to what the shot feels like from a power distribution perspective.
Develop this shot and you will save yourself so much energy on the court. There is no need to run around every backhand while controlling the middle. There is no need to slice the first serve to the backhand. There is no need to miss those short backhand putaways!*
*Obviously all of these great things can be done well with a 1HBH. It's been my limited experience that opponents with 1HBH rarely play that side aggressively, or even have the ability to hit a topspin shot under pressure. It would just seem that the 2-hander is easier at the lower levels of the sport.
5263
G.O.A.T.
I think above and StrikerR have good points here. Powerplayers comment on balance tends to help with all the issues, like leaning too much into it to get power and hit further out front....those are balance issues that also destroy the contact point. Getting the good shoulder turn is a way better way to improve power without hurting balance or over extending the contact area.
Having the hands work together is likely the worst problem not to have and can also be due to lack of balance in the setup... Imo many players try to work the hands against each other to slap or torq the racket head around to contact and destroy the timing and racket face stability. Nadal is good at it, but Imo it hurts his Bh sometimes.
Good balance & good shoulder turn should help you drag a stable racket to a good contact point, where you can work up and across the Bh.
GoudX
Professional
Two other mistakes:
Much like on the forehand, players tendency to swing in a massive arc, rather than swinging out towards the target. This results in mishits and a lack of accuracy.
Players often fail to swing low to high sufficiently on high bouncers, and they try to crush the ball from shoulder height instead.
Much like on the forehand, players tendency to swing in a massive arc, rather than swinging out towards the target. This results in mishits and a lack of accuracy.
Players often fail to swing low to high sufficiently on high bouncers, and they try to crush the ball from shoulder height instead.
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
I don't agree with this at all. Please check yandell's site for a description of grips and arm constellation relationships
TimeSpiral
Professional
I'm surprised by that.
The Conti/SW grip is the defacto standard for a 2HBH.
Just in case there is some confusion, the Conti/SW grip I was referring to would be as follows, using the chart above. The right hand would be position at Bevel (1), in the bottom position and the left hand would be positioned at Bevel (3), in the top position.
The second grip I suggested comes from the hybrid service return grip ready position*. In some cases you don't have time to switch grips, and you have to hit the ball with what you have. A player with a RH Eastern FH would have the right hand on the Right Side, in the bottom position and the left hand would be on bevel (3), in the top position. I've found that you can also use this grip in a rally if you want to bunt or drive a flat ball.
I don't have a tennisplayer.net sub (sorry, John!), so maybe you can correct me here?
*The idea behind this grip in the ready position is minimal movement from just one hand to achieve the necessary grip, or to play an emergency 2HBH grip that's already in place.
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
I'm surprised by that.
The Conti/SW grip is the defacto standard for a 2HBH.
Just in case there is some confusion, the Conti/SW grip I was referring to would be .....
Text reduced
Now that you've expanded your thoughts I get what you are trying to say. I still don't recommend practicing with your "bunt" grip intentionally, ever. If someone does get caught with the wrong bottom hand grip because they misread a bounce or spin or something then that is fine. Improvisation skills are good too. I would never teach this.
Essentially your hitting arm needs to be a forehand grip and your non hitting arm needs to be a backhand grip. Continental counts as a backhand grip.
John yandell's site should have the page I was referring to available without subscription, just search "John yandell two handed backhand"
TimeSpiral
Professional
Thanks for the share! I found the link easily.
Incidentally, Yandell almost immediately validates my bunt grip (even though I agree with you that the Cont/SW is better in most cases). Look:
Some have a mild eastern grip [...]
[pics]
An eastern grip with the bottom hand paired with an eastern or a mild semi-western
Source: http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/..._complex/Copy of 2hd_bh_simplest_complex.html
It seems that not only is the bunt grip I described a legitimate variation, but there are several others used at the highest levels! Very cool. I too believed the shot to be simple and straightforward, but as Yandell says, "maybe not."[pics]
An eastern grip with the bottom hand paired with an eastern or a mild semi-western
Source: http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/..._complex/Copy of 2hd_bh_simplest_complex.html
mightyrick
Legend
I read Yandell's article and I don't interpret it as validating your incorrect grip. (John Y, if you are around, please verify that you are not advocating an Eastern FOREHAND grip as a valid variation on the bottom hand.)
From what I read, the "mild Eastern" that Yandell refers to is a "mild Eastern (BACKHAND)" grip.
There is nobody reputable that I've ever seen who would advocate hitting any form of a two-handed backhand with the bottom hand using an Eastern FOREHAND grip. Any article or discussion I've ever seen which relates to a backhand uses the term "Eastern" in the context of "Eastern BACKHAND" grip.
TimeSpiral
Professional
Chill, brother! I'm happy to be wrong here, if that's the case. Maybe I did read it wrong. *shrugs*
I have found some success with the "bunt grip" (for lack of a better term), and explained that it is mainly an improvisational grip used when I can't fully switch to the preferred grip. I'm sure it's not the only technically ugly and incorrect thing I do!
It's certainly not beyond the realm of reason that the index knuckle resting on the right side of the racquet can produce an effective 2HBH, if a minor rotation towards the 1st bevel (or in between) is the standard for some.
I have found some success with the "bunt grip" (for lack of a better term), and explained that it is mainly an improvisational grip used when I can't fully switch to the preferred grip. I'm sure it's not the only technically ugly and incorrect thing I do!
It's certainly not beyond the realm of reason that the index knuckle resting on the right side of the racquet can produce an effective 2HBH, if a minor rotation towards the 1st bevel (or in between) is the standard for some.
sundaypunch
Hall of Fame
Agree 100%
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
Bobs tennis
Semi-Pro
Wow-those are the exact words yhat I use also wrist back
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
No top player has an eastern forehand grip with the bottom hand that I know of anyway. By eastern I mean heel pad and index knuckle inline with the racket head and on bevel three.
Some players like Venus are shifted just slightly upward toward the top of the frame. Kinda like the old style eastern forehand grip from the wood racket/grass court days of Kramer and Budge. That seems to work for Venus who hits a big percentage of open stance forehands and uses primarily the left arm in a bent bent configuration.
That bent/bent configuration is predominant in the women's game. It's the most like the so-called left handed forehand.
But most great women two handers have much stronger grips with the bottom hand, mild to full continentals. This means some of the heel pad on top of the frame and the knuckle on bevel 2 or higher. And they hit predominantly with neutral and closed stances. Got to be some contribution there with the bottom hand.
When it comes to the men, some form of a backhand grip is critical. The typical men's configuration is bent with the front arm and straight with the rear. In this case you have a strong initial pull with the bottom hand and you need a grip that makes that possible. Again that means some part--or a substantial part--of the heel pad on top and the index knuckle higher than bevel 3.
If you look at Roddick's backhand the most basic problem was his grip structure and hitting arm structure did not align well. He hit bent straight but with a very weak bottom hand grip, He couldn't come inside and pull at the start of the forward swing.
Andy would blast 99.99 percent (or higher) of the TW posters off the court with his backhand, but at the level of elite pro tennis it was a weakness.
So there is a range of grip structures that will work but you have to corelate that with the use of the hitting arms. And no at this point it would not be my suggestion to use an eastern forehand with the bottom hand.
Some players like Venus are shifted just slightly upward toward the top of the frame. Kinda like the old style eastern forehand grip from the wood racket/grass court days of Kramer and Budge. That seems to work for Venus who hits a big percentage of open stance forehands and uses primarily the left arm in a bent bent configuration.
That bent/bent configuration is predominant in the women's game. It's the most like the so-called left handed forehand.
But most great women two handers have much stronger grips with the bottom hand, mild to full continentals. This means some of the heel pad on top of the frame and the knuckle on bevel 2 or higher. And they hit predominantly with neutral and closed stances. Got to be some contribution there with the bottom hand.
When it comes to the men, some form of a backhand grip is critical. The typical men's configuration is bent with the front arm and straight with the rear. In this case you have a strong initial pull with the bottom hand and you need a grip that makes that possible. Again that means some part--or a substantial part--of the heel pad on top and the index knuckle higher than bevel 3.
If you look at Roddick's backhand the most basic problem was his grip structure and hitting arm structure did not align well. He hit bent straight but with a very weak bottom hand grip, He couldn't come inside and pull at the start of the forward swing.
Andy would blast 99.99 percent (or higher) of the TW posters off the court with his backhand, but at the level of elite pro tennis it was a weakness.
So there is a range of grip structures that will work but you have to corelate that with the use of the hitting arms. And no at this point it would not be my suggestion to use an eastern forehand with the bottom hand.
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PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
sounds right
TimeSpiral
Professional
I'm impressed with your level of involvement here, Yandell. May I ask for one point of clarification?
You mentioned bevel number (3) multiple times, but there is a convention that uses both bevel numbers and sides to describe the racquet (below). Are you referring to Top as Bevel (1), Bevel (1) as Bevel (2) and so on, clockwise?
Using this (above) chart, for the 2HBH, I prefer my bottom hand in Bevel (1) position, but sometimes improvise with what I'm calling an Eastern grip (Right Side) position. It's the improvised grip that drew criticism from my fellow posters (perhaps rightfully so!).
Thanks, Yandell!
I agree - no one should use EFH on bottom hand for 2 HBH. The only player I can recall doing this was Jimmy Connors who hit a lot of backhands with an awkward grip on his lower hand. Connors also hit a lot of fairly flat 2 HBHs and the weak grip probably had a lot to do with the lack of spin. But, Connors did have a great 2 HBH.
Use a Conti or something between a Conti and EBH grip on the lower hand for consistency and easier access to topspin. It also helps if you are pulled wide or short and have to hit a 1 HBH to just get the ball back. You aren't going to hit too many good 1 HBH with an EFH grip but you can hit an effective slice with Conti grip.
Use a Conti or something between a Conti and EBH grip on the lower hand for consistency and easier access to topspin. It also helps if you are pulled wide or short and have to hit a 1 HBH to just get the ball back. You aren't going to hit too many good 1 HBH with an EFH grip but you can hit an effective slice with Conti grip.
mightyrick
Legend
Connors backhand weapon was hitting 2HBH chip approach shots to either corner with like 99.99% consistency.
But guys like Connors and McEnroe are not to be modeled after, obviously. Those are guys who had amazing talent and learned highly unorthodox styles to the expert level.
Mere mortals such as us would have no ability to replicate what they did/do with any kind of successful results.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
Spiral,
The top bevel is bevel one.
The top bevel is bevel one.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
On Connors:
His grip was definitely not an eastern forehand. In our archive footage his index knuckle is on bevel 2 and the heel pad is on bevel two and probably slightly higher creasing bevel 1.
Lower contact points in his day made that work and he (and most observers) considered it his best shot.
His grip was definitely not an eastern forehand. In our archive footage his index knuckle is on bevel 2 and the heel pad is on bevel two and probably slightly higher creasing bevel 1.
Lower contact points in his day made that work and he (and most observers) considered it his best shot.
I'm impressed with your level of involvement here, Yandell. May I ask for one point of clarification?
You mentioned bevel number (3) multiple times, but there is a convention that uses both bevel numbers and sides to describe the racquet (below). Are you referring to Top as Bevel (1), Bevel (1) as Bevel (2) and so on, clockwise?
Using this (above) chart, for the 2HBH, I prefer my bottom hand in Bevel (1) position, but sometimes improvise with what I'm calling an Eastern grip (Right Side) position. It's the improvised grip that drew criticism from my fellow posters (perhaps rightfully so!).
Thanks, Yandell!
The general convention used here is the top bevel is #1 and all the bevels are numbered 1-8 in a CW direction for a right handed player. So an E. fh has the index knuckle on bevel 3, SW fh on bevel 4, cont. on bevel 2, etc.
TimeSpiral
Professional
I assumed as much, but just wanted to be sure.
I also read that the semi-western is considered to be in between 3 and 4. Western is 4 and extreme western is 5. Can't seem to find the article now. But I was always under the impression that:
2 = Continental
3 = Eastern
4 = Semi-western
5 = Western (full western)
I didn't even think that the in-between positions were viable.
Topspin Shot
Legend
7 is extreme backhand. 7.5 is extreme eastern backhand. 1 is eastern backhand. 1.5 is mild eastern backhand. 2 is continental. 2.5 is mild continental. 3 is eastern. 3.5 is extreme eastern or quarter western. 4 is semi western. 4.5 is extreme semi western or three quarters western. 5 is western. 5.5 is extreme western. 6 is Hawaiian.
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
I often find I let the ball get too close to my body while hitting my 2hbh. Not sure why.I've certainly have been hitting long enough to be able to judge the path of the ball. Any ideas?
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Move your feet and line up your left foot to the ball more.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Too closed a stance probably. Try to set up more neutral.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Here's some keys:
1. Realize it doesn't have to be low and close to the lines. Give the ball a couple of feet of margin over the net, and keep it a few or even several feet from the lines. The point is to open up the court or hit an approach, not to hit a clean winner. Even passing shots don't have to be winners.
2. The ball will go where your racket face is pointing. So point the racket face in the hitting zone toward your down the line target.
3. Don't break the plane of your swing arc to push the ball down the line. The direction of your swing has much less to do with the destination or your shot than the direction your racket face is pointing.
4. Don't back off the swing speed. If you back off too much, you will be vulnerable to the rebound angle and end up putting the ball in the alley.
5. Don't close off your stance too much. The most natural way to hit down the line is to let the ball get in on you a bit, that is a slightly later contact point. If your stance is too closed, you won't be able to let the ball get in on you because your body will not be behind the ball.
6. And don't default to the DTL backhand every time your opponent gets to take an inside out forehand. There are some situations where that side of the court is wide open, and you can hit it there without coming within ten feet of a line, but don't try to squeeze the ball into a small down the line target. You're better off hitting crosscourt into his forehand and trying to weather the storm than making an error.
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Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
Thanks.. I often try and squeeze the ball into a tight place when I go DTL. My target isnt really safe at all and I also spray a lot of balls wide.
Those are good tips though, will give them a try. I like the whole not breaking the plane tip, makes more sense to me than some of the other advice around here. Very simple and it works
Those are good tips though, will give them a try. I like the whole not breaking the plane tip, makes more sense to me than some of the other advice around here. Very simple and it works
I find a trick that works for me. Is to think chin, shoulder to shoulder.
Start with the racquet in a neutral position, butt cap near the belly button, racquet head slightly up. If your right handed, on the backswing your chin should touch your right shoulder and on the forward swing your chin should touch your left shoulder. This serves to keep the head still and prevents you pulling off the ball.
Most people also tend to not make small adjustment steps when setting up for the backhand, they tend to lunge for it. You really want to get grounded and centered.
Also with a lot of people there backhand woes are caused by a timing issue, they tend to reach too much for the ball. Try waiting a little longer. It might help.
Start with the racquet in a neutral position, butt cap near the belly button, racquet head slightly up. If your right handed, on the backswing your chin should touch your right shoulder and on the forward swing your chin should touch your left shoulder. This serves to keep the head still and prevents you pulling off the ball.
Most people also tend to not make small adjustment steps when setting up for the backhand, they tend to lunge for it. You really want to get grounded and centered.
Also with a lot of people there backhand woes are caused by a timing issue, they tend to reach too much for the ball. Try waiting a little longer. It might help.
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Great post. I added a few other names that I've heard.
Also, the names help categorize a general area where a player is holding the racquet. But you can hold it anywhere you want around the continuum of the handle.
Also, the names help categorize a general area where a player is holding the racquet. But you can hold it anywhere you want around the continuum of the handle.
F
FuzzyYellowBalls41
Guest
biggest thing that helped me fine tune my 2 hander was watch alot of agassi videos and noticed on ALL of his closed stanced backhands, he pops that hip around and swings the left leg out once finishing the stroke to get that extra pop and drive. Of course this should be fundamental but it was something i wasn't even thinking about and wasn't bring my left leg around and it made my backhand a weakness. after really rotating the hips on everyshot, it became cake.
also adding the scissor kick backhand return by loading all weight on the left leg then scissor kicking by bring it back and up and moving the right leg forward. helped me so much.
also racquet take back racket tip should be pointing up at a 45 degree angle. not horizontal or straight down. point it up to get more leverage on shot.
my 2 cent.
also adding the scissor kick backhand return by loading all weight on the left leg then scissor kicking by bring it back and up and moving the right leg forward. helped me so much.
also racquet take back racket tip should be pointing up at a 45 degree angle. not horizontal or straight down. point it up to get more leverage on shot.
my 2 cent.
Ignatz Tushwop
Rookie
I like to watch players that make it look easy.
Fognini gets tremendous leverage with timing, rotation even when he is flat footed.
Watch his match against Nadal US open.
Fognini gets tremendous leverage with timing, rotation even when he is flat footed.
Watch his match against Nadal US open.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
I think the key is getting good core rotation so you can really hit through the ball. Also keeping it simple with your hands, as others said. I like to do core rotations w/ a medicine ball and practice stepping into the shot to really hit through it.
PMChambers
Hall of Fame
I've only been hitting a 2HB for about a year. 1HB for 35 years, changed because I can't play singles regularly and find 1HB a liability in doubles at returning. It took me about 4 weeks to get a 2HB functional and 6 months to feel comfortable and have belief.
Technique issues I see and do,
Hit across the body rather than through the ball. Can be overcome by practising Lansdorp finish. This happens a lot, most BH that goes into net is due to this.
Trying to muscle the ball. Resulting in hands not working together, poor timing, loss of balance, etc Solution is to loosen up as much as possible.
Fall off the ball. Generally due to trying to hit the ball to hard. Solution is understanding the 2HB is rarely a power shot and play it as a positional play.
As most the conversation is about grips. I like the Agassi 2HB, Left Hand - Semi Western Right Hand - Continental, v.small loop backswing. Very simple and not much to go wrong. Will sometime rotate the grip a bit more closed and brush up the ball more but only when well behind the baseline and not sure if it's of much benefit. My service return is both hands on the racquet, Left Hand - Semi Western, Right Hand Eastern, will rotate a racquet a little in the right hand depending if it's going onto the forehand or backhand.
Technique issues I see and do,
Hit across the body rather than through the ball. Can be overcome by practising Lansdorp finish. This happens a lot, most BH that goes into net is due to this.
Trying to muscle the ball. Resulting in hands not working together, poor timing, loss of balance, etc Solution is to loosen up as much as possible.
Fall off the ball. Generally due to trying to hit the ball to hard. Solution is understanding the 2HB is rarely a power shot and play it as a positional play.
As most the conversation is about grips. I like the Agassi 2HB, Left Hand - Semi Western Right Hand - Continental, v.small loop backswing. Very simple and not much to go wrong. Will sometime rotate the grip a bit more closed and brush up the ball more but only when well behind the baseline and not sure if it's of much benefit. My service return is both hands on the racquet, Left Hand - Semi Western, Right Hand Eastern, will rotate a racquet a little in the right hand depending if it's going onto the forehand or backhand.
WildVolley
Legend
I agree that insufficient shoulder rotation is a very common mistake, especially for those who have or are transitioning from a 1hbh drive.
I'd say the other most common mistake (not sure why this is the case) I've observed is being late with the takeback. I see a lot of 2hbh players who punch the racket out in front of them as though measuring the ball distance before bringing it back. At lower levels this isn't as much of an issue, but once the player faces pace I see a lot of late swings.
