Most overrated athletes

[drakulie]

^^jeez, madden?? One guy? Come on.

JBF is obviously exaggerating. I don't hear anyone say he is the "greatest ever". Some do say, he is "one of the greatest ever", which he certainly is, but "greatest"??? NO.

 

[jhick]

^^^again, who hypes him as the greatest QB of all time??? I've never heard this.

John Madden for one.

Maybe not the greatest of all time, but certainly he is hyped up, do you not agree?

Let's not forget the guy also has thrown the most interceptions of any NFL QB.

 

[Kevin T]

Look at the roster of receivers that Manning has made better, and it's clear that he is one of the best quarterbacks of all time.

Yes, Reggie Wayne is a great athelete. But it seems like they have been able to plug about anyone in the receiver spot and Manning is able to highlight their ability. Austin Collie anyone? Pierre Garcon? These guys would be unheralded receivers without the ball that Manning throws.

Brady may have been "better" in big games (which is debatable), but he has also been helped by the Pats sustaining a running game, which the Colts have very rarely had (Edge for a couple of seasons, and Addai for 1 or 2 seasons), as well as the Pats having a much stouter defense for the most part. Getting to (and winning) the big game requires a team effort, and the Pats were one of the most watertight teams in the NFL in the 00's.

On the money. I recently read an interview with Darrelle Revis, current "best corner of all-time". He thinks Manning is the best/most difficult to defend because he has no "tells" (has a good poker face, unlike other QB's) and has a Madden NFL 2011-type wealth of offensive/defensive scheme knowledge. Talking heads and ex-NFL greats love Favre because he goes for broke and is a locker room guy. These same guys think Petyon is the best ever because he does what no other QB can do/has done. I'll be shocked if he doesn't win 1-2 more Super Bowls.

 

[Mike2228]

jason bay....

 

[Mike2228]

also Jason Veritek is and has been overrated for years.

 

[CCNM]

If by "overrated" you mean hyped and exposed way too much, then I'd pick Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, and before them Michael Jordan.

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

who hypes him as the greatest QB of all time?

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

They teach us remedial english at very least because urine idiot. Those two are exactly the same. Want proof:

http://thesaurus.com/browse/overrated?r=76&src=ref&ch=the

Notice how the synonyms are "oversell", "hyped-up", etc. Those two are synonyms. Overhyped means something that overpromoted (i.e. ESPN thinking he's King James) that under delivers. Are you really going to argue with me that someone who is overrated can't be described as someone who gets a lot of praise despite it being unmerited? Lol "logic" fail.

PS: LeBron phucking sucks. Lol at putting him in the same category as Magic despite not winning a ring and having to collude with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to even have a chance at it. You're sipping too much of that ESPN Kool-Aid. Furthermore, the fact that you actually think that he's one of the top 2 players in the world (Durant, Kobe, Wade at the very least are more fundamentally sound/better winners than him...in before Durant has never made it to the 2nd round despite giving the Lakers their hardest challenge in the west as an 8th seed with nobody besides him and maybe their PG lulz) proves my point that he is overrated/overhyped, i.e. someone who is touted as being something he's not.

Lebron took a team in Cleveland that was pretty crappy and led them to 60+ win seasons. Durant is on the up, but everyone's sipping that kool aid after one great season. And if you think I'm a Lebron defender, go to the "LeBron Watch" thread and think again. I despise the guy's whole act this summer, but he's definitely along w/ Kobe the best in the world at what he does.

And yes you can be overhyped but not overrated. The hype is "The Decision", which Jordan didn't even get during his day. Non-stop coverage, ESPN is even going to have a "Heat Index" just to cover the Heat specifically. Unprecedented, and yes overhyped. But he is not overrated as being one of the top 2 and at worst top 3-5 players in the world.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

who hypes him as the greatest QB of all time?

And reggie white was the reason they won the superbowl? LMAO

'Possibly' the greatest by all the media who hangs on his retirement decisions every off season, talks him up as 'the gunslinger', toughest QB of all time because of the streak.

And yes in the actual Super Bowl White was the dominant factor w/ a record 3 sacks. Favre had 2 long TDs but did enough not to f it up (for once) and let the D get the win.

Yes Favre is 'one of' the greatest. But Montana, Elway, Unitas have the clear edge, and in this generation alone Manning and Brady are well on their way to surpassing Favre if they haven't already. Not to mention guys like Marino, Young, Staubach, who have their supporters. To put it in tennis terms - Favre is a 2nd tier great, similar to Lendl, Wilander, McEnroe, but not the messiah some (the aforementioned Madden, Peter King, Tony Kornheiser) make him out to be.

 

[mtommer]

...of being a Drama Queen

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

So did Randall Cunningham. And Tarkenton actually got them to 3 SBs. How short some people's memories (or knowledge of history) are.

The vikings had much better teams in the past. I'n the 70's their defense was known as purple crush. Now with moss-peterson-favre- and a good defense for the vikings, they should do well if favre does well or does not get suspended.

Favre's arm is strong, but others, good and bad, have been stronger. Let's not talk as if he has the strongest arm of all time, or else we're right back again overrating him. The 'gunslinger' myth about Favre really is nauseating at this point. :?

Well he can rifle the ball. I've heard wide receivers talk about how hard he throws.

 

[SirGounder]

Surprised nobody mentioned LeBron James. Brb, calling myself the chosen one and then not winning a title.

That's because he's black and the NBA don't want black people to win. It's much like how Lebron said the backlash to his ESPN special was a race issue.


^^That was sarcasm by the way.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Brett does it again...

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Brett does it again...

Yeah, after the int i was like oh no-not again. I'm sure you were enjoying the first half bagel, but favre stepped it up in the second half making sanchez look like a rookie.. It's also not easy to complete pass after pass when the D knows you are going to pass. It does seem like favre can make some poor quick decisions, but that's how he plays. Good game though for sure.

 

[Dilettante]

And lol at whoever said Messi.

I'm that "whoever".

So let's see why the "lol" at Messi being overrated.

 

[Kevin T]

Yeah, after the int i was like oh no-not again. I'm sure you were enjoying the first half bagel, but favre stepped it up in the second half making sanchez look like a rookie.. It's also not easy to complete pass after pass when the D knows you are going to pass. It does seem like favre can make some poor quick decisions, but that's how he plays. Good game though for sure.

The throws to Percy H. and Moss were money. Nice little spin move from Brett on that one pass, as well. Not bad for a 42yo guy who probably just got his rear handed to him by his wife (thanks to all the harrassment stuff in the news). Hey, Brady had 3 turnovers against the Jets and he's closer to his prime than Favre. D's don't get much tougher, particularly in the secondary. Live by the sword and die by the sword. He had them in the game and that's more than Sage R. could have done.

 

[Mortifier]

David F-cking Beckham. He's a leader though, a true sportsman, but he's not that good of a footballer. Overrated mostly throughout his whole carreer, and he only delivered on set pieces.

 

[bezs]

But his set-pieces and crosses can be killer and a real decider in a game and he seems like a really down to earth person.

Point reiterated on Gerrard, in the England game.

 

[Feña14]

Point reiterated on Gerrard, in the England game.

Nothing like a timely reminder, eh?

Can you imagine if it was Lampard? The English public would be up in arms for him to be dropped.

 

[Fandango]

NBA:

Yao Ming-guy hasn't produced. Even with his size and the injury problems he's had, I just don't understand how you can be the tallest man (and some polished basketball skills) on any given night and average less than 30 points game.

Also getting blocked by Nate Robinson and Getting outjumped by Vince Carter are lowlights although vinsanity has got some mad ups.

Lebron James-Enough said. His size and speed make him almost impossible to guard plus he is like a Power Forward with a point guards ball skills. Yes, he can do a lot of things and he's a good basketball player. He does not deserve his two MVP awards.

 

[Hot Sauce]

Brock Lesnar. The guy shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with Fedor Emelianenko.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Lebron James-Enough said. His size and speed make him almost impossible to guard plus he is like a Power Forward with a point guards ball skills. Yes, he can do a lot of things and he's a good basketball player. He does not deserve his two MVP awards.

So you mention how good he is, then say he's overrated? He carried a Cleveland team that was quite frankly not the most talented to 2 60+ win seasons, and before that carried an even less talented Cle team to the finals (29 of 30 pts in the 4th vs DET, anyone?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MRGEPivSAc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhiY3jVoAuM

Another LeBron vote that seems more motivated by personal animosity than anything else. Like I said, I don't like the guy, but I respect his game and know that he's at worst one of the 3 best in the world.

Now as far as MJ comparisons is he overrated? Yes. But are you guys really saying LeBron isn't one of the best on the planet? And sorry to me a guy like Durant still has more to prove before I rate him ahead of LeBron. 1. Kobe 2. LeBron 3. Durant 4. Wade That's just my opinion.

 

[OKUSA]

soon as I saw this topic I thought of Leo Messi, I take Xavi over him any day. Barca and Spain are at a complete disadvantage (or loss) without him.

If Messi is the GOAT forwards then Zanetti should be hailed the GOAT man marker since he was the one that stifled Messi in last years Champions League semis in both legs

 

[drakulie]

John Madden for one.

OK, and again I say....... "One guy?" That's it?? One person? Jeez.

Maybe not the greatest of all time, but certainly he is hyped up, do you not agree?

Do I think he is hyped up? No. he is a great quarterback, who plays with a lot of passion, and rallies his team.

Let's not forget the guy also has thrown the most interceptions of any NFL QB.

OK. This doesn't mean he is a bad quarterback. Pick guys who have thrown less interceptions, and let me know how they compare in regards to wins, superbolws, etc. I'm quite certain, even with his intercerptions, he is still above most.

'Possibly' the greatest by all the media who hangs on his retirement decisions every off season, talks him up as 'the gunslinger', toughest QB of all time because of the streak.

Let me know when you have a source of who is saying, as you suggested, that he is "The Greatest of All time".

And yes in the actual Super Bowl White was the dominant factor w/ a record 3 sacks. Favre had 2 long TDs but did enough not to f it up (for once) and let the D get the win.

OK. White with his 3 sacks won the superbowl. :roll:

But Montana, Elway, Unitas have the clear edge, and in this generation alone Manning and Brady are well on their way to surpassing Favre if they haven't already. Not to mention guys like Marino, Young, Staubach, who have their supporters. To put it in tennis terms - Favre is a 2nd tier great, similar to Lendl, Wilander, McEnroe, but not the messiah some (the aforementioned Madden, Peter King, Tony Kornheiser) make him out to be.

what does this have to do with your claim that everyone hypes him as the "Greatest of All Time"?

And BTW, with the exception of Montana I'll take Bradshaw and his 4 superbowls over nearly every guy you have listed.

fact is, you are "underhyping" players (other than White. LOL)

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Do I think he is hyped up? No. he is a great quarterback, who plays with a lot of passion, and rallies his team.

There it is again. "he plays with a lot of passion" What great QB doesn't? It's just another term used to hype Favre where it isn't necessary (he's tough - aren't all FB players tough? he's a warrior - again, most great players have a warrior mentality) Favre just gets hype because of the streak, he's great but not top 5 and your posts again show why Favre is indeed overrated.

OK. This doesn't mean he is a bad quarterback. Pick guys who have thrown less interceptions, and let me know how they compare in regards to wins, superbolws, etc. I'm quite certain, even with his intercerptions, he is still above most.

Win pct is always a skewed stat when measuring QBs, but that being considered Favre isn't even top 10 in win pct for QBs. Brady, Otto Graham, Staubach, Roethlisberger are all ahead of him in that category. Wins alone isn't accurate either, bc as others have noted w/ the TD record, he's played forever.

Let me know when you have a source of who is saying, as you suggested, that he is "The Greatest of All time".

http://nflsoup.com/?p=1550
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/15933-brett-favre-the-greatest-quarterback-ever
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/brett_favre_the_greatest_quarterback_of_all_time/268680
http://sundial.csun.edu/2009/10/why-brett-favre-is-the-greatest-quarterback-ever/
http://christwire.org/2009/11/brett-favre-is-the-greatest-quarterback-of-all-time/

OK. White with his 3 sacks won the superbowl. :roll:

GB's D shutting down NE and forcing Bledsoe to throw 4 INTs was the main reason for them winning that game. And White made more of an impact than Favre in that game. Pretty much everyone whos a real football fan agrees with that. Of course if the QBs name was Brad Johnson instead of Brett Favre everyone would see that Favre's performance was good, but nothing earth shattering.

Though I must say you're doing a great job of making a better "Favre is overrated" argument than I am.

Let me reiterate - in no way am I saying that Brett Favre is a bad QB. He's top 10 of all time. But are there other QBs who are better than him, yet get less hype, praise, acclaim, etc? No doubt.

 

[Breaker]

soon as I saw this topic I thought of Leo Messi, I take Xavi over him any day. Barca and Spain are at a complete disadvantage (or loss) without him.

If Messi is the GOAT forwards then Zanetti should be hailed the GOAT man marker since he was the one that stifled Messi in last years Champions League semis in both legs

Yes because two games where Mourinho parked the bus and still should have lost if not for a phantom handball at the end of the second leg = Zanetti GOAT. I guess we're just going to forget about the 4 goal performance against Arsenal the tie before and the 40+ goals and 25+ assists he had last season?

 

[SempreSami]

I'm that "whoever".

So let's see why the "lol" at Messi being overrated.

He's been awesome since he first turned out for Barca in 2006 and is now pretty much the player who can always be relied on to get a goal against a stubborn defence. Just because he's used incorrectly in the Argentine national team, it can't detract from his goodness.

 

[SempreSami]

David F-cking Beckham. He's a leader though, a true sportsman, but he's not that good of a footballer. Overrated mostly throughout his whole carreer, and he only delivered on set pieces.

Beckham's strengths were his crossing and set piece taking, nobody expected him to be much else than that. He still chipped in with some awesome goals in normal time, such as the one against Arsenal in the FA Cup.

 

[LanEvo]

OK, and again I say....... "One guy?" That's it?? One person? Jeez.



Do I think he is hyped up? No. he is a great quarterback, who plays with a lot of passion, and rallies his team.



OK. This doesn't mean he is a bad quarterback. Pick guys who have thrown less interceptions, and let me know how they compare in regards to wins, superbolws, etc. I'm quite certain, even with his intercerptions, he is still above most.




Let me know when you have a source of who is saying, as you suggested, that he is "The Greatest of All time".



OK. White with his 3 sacks won the superbowl. :roll:



what does this have to do with your claim that everyone hypes him as the "Greatest of All Time"?

And BTW, with the exception of Montana I'll take Bradshaw and his 4 superbowls over nearly every guy you have listed.

fact is, you are "underhyping" players (other than White. LOL)

Peyton Manning

 

[jhick]

OK. This doesn't mean he is a bad quarterback. Pick guys who have thrown less interceptions, and let me know how they compare in regards to wins, superbolws, etc. I'm quite certain, even with his intercerptions, he is still above most.

I never stated that Favre was a bad QB. In fact, I think he's upper echelon. But that said, he can still be overrated even though he's a good QB.

Now, as far as the INT's, let's look at his recent past in key games. A few years ago with Green Bay in the NFC title game in his final game as a Packer, he throws an INT and they lose. Last year with the Vikes, he should have either run with the ball or thrown it out of bounds since they were already in FG position to potentially win the game. Instead, he throws (actually forces) an ill advised INT at the end of the game and the Vikes lose in OT. On Monday, the Vikes get the ball towards the end of the game and can win the game on a final drive. But instead he throws an INT that turns into a TD for the Jets to put the game out of reach. So it sure looks to me that when the pressure is on to win important games, he tends to force passes that he really shouldn't be throwing in the first place.

So if you're talking Super Bowls, I can name quite a few QB's with less INT's that have been on winning teams. Manning, Brady, Montana, Aikman, and even Bradshaw come to mind.

 

[Raiden]

soon as I saw this topic I thought of Leo Messi, I take Xavi over him any day. Barca and Spain are at a complete disadvantage (or loss) without him.

If Messi is the GOAT forwards then Zanetti should be hailed the GOAT man marker since he was the one that stifled Messi in last years Champions League semis in both legs

Stop making stuff up. No one ever claimed that Messi was the forward GOAT. How can he be that, when he isn't even a pure forward in the first place!

Some idiots compared him with Maradona, that was it - that was the 'apex' of the Messi hype. But this has more to do with the fact that Messi is Maradona's compatriot: if he was a Brazillian he would have been compared to Zico or whoever (every now and then, a rising star footballer from Argentina with a number 10 on the back of his shirt will undergo this "you're the next Maradona" initiation ritual
.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Back to Favre - winningnest QBs in NFL history

1. Tom Brady (2000-Present) 100-31 .762
2. Roger Staubach (1969-1979) 85-29 .746
3. Joe Montana (1979-1994) 117-47 .713
4. Ben Roethlisberger (2003-Present) 60-26 .698
5. Jim McMahon (1982-1996) 67- 30 .691
6. Peyton Manning (1998-Present) 134-63 .680
7. Terry Bradshaw (1970-1983) 107-51 .677
8. Ken Stabler (1970-1984) 96-49-1 .661
9. Steve Young (1985-1999) 94-49 .657
10. Donovan McNabb (1999-Present) 95-51-1 .650
11. Johnny Unitas (1956-1973) 118-64-4 .645
12. John Elway (1983-1998 ) 148-82-1 .643
13. Jim Kelly (1986-1996) 101-59 .631
14. Brett Favre (1991-Present) 182-107 .630
15. Joe Theismann (1974-1985) 77 47 0 .621
16. Bob Griese (1967-1980) 92-56-3 .619
17. Bart Starr (1956-1971) 94-57-6 .618
18. Len Dawson Pittsburgh (1957-1975) 94-57-8 .616
19. Dan Marino (1983-1999) 147-93 .613
20. Randall Cunningham (1985-2002) 82-52-1 .611

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

I never stated that Favre was a bad QB. In fact, I think he's upper echelon. But that said, he can still be overrated even though he's a good QB.

Now, as far as the INT's, let's look at his recent past in key games. A few years ago with Green Bay in the NFC title game in his final game as a Packer, he throws an INT and they lose. Last year with the Vikes, he should have either run with the ball or thrown it out of bounds since they were already in FG position to potentially win the game. Instead, he throws (actually forces) an ill advised INT at the end of the game and the Vikes lose in OT. On Monday, the Vikes get the ball towards the end of the game and can win the game on a final drive. But instead he throws an INT that turns into a TD for the Jets to put the game out of reach. So it sure looks to me that when the pressure is on to win important games, he tends to force passes that he really shouldn't be throwing in the first place.

So if you're talking Super Bowls, I can name quite a few QB's with less INT's that have been on winning teams. Manning, Brady, Montana, Aikman, and even Bradshaw come to mind.

I already explained to drak that Favre is a 2nd tier great but he ignored it. Never did anyone say that Favres a bad QB, just that he isn't the deity that the media makes him out to be by hyping his achievements as if that makes him above others who have lesser stats but were indeed better QBs. Guys like Unitas and Graham get forgotten, and even Montana to a certain extent is being forgotten in the Favre hype of the past few years.

Interesting article written in 2008 after Favre's INT in the NFC title game vs NYG - I'm guessing he hasn't done much to improve his legacy since then.

We interrupt the continued deification of Brett Favre -- a first-ballot Hall of Famer and the most durable player in NFL history -- with the following reality check.

Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3281535

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Top 4 QB so far..

Joe Montana:
8× Pro Bowl selection (1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1993)
3× First Team All-Pro selection (1987, 1989, 1990)
3× Second Team All-Pro selection (1981, 1983, 1984)
4× Super Bowl champion (XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV)
3× Super Bowl MVP (1981, 1984, 1989)
2× AP NFL MVP (1989, 1990)
PFWA NFL MVP (1989)
NEA NFL MVP (1989)
AP NFL Offensive Player of the Year (1989)
NFL Comeback Player of the Year (1986)
UPI NFC Player of the Year (1981)
Bert Bell Award (1989)
Cotton Bowl Classic MVP (1979)
NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team
NFL 1980s All-Decade Team
San Francisco 49ers #16 retired


johnny Unitas:
Super Bowl Champion (V) (1970)
2x NFL World Champion (1958, 1959)
NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team
NFL 1960s All-Decade Team
10× Pro Bowl selection (1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1966, 1967)
6× First-team All-Pro selection (1957, 1958, 1959, 1964, 1965, 1967)
1× Second-team All-Pro (1963)
1× Second-team All-Conference (1970)
3× AP NFL MVP (1959, 1964, 1967)
3× UPI NFL MVP (1959, 1964, 1967)
2× NEA NFL MVP (1957, 1967)
3× Pro Bowl MVP (1959, 1960, 1963)
3× Bert Bell Award (1959, 1964, 1967)
1970 NFL Man of the Year Award
Colts #19 retired


Brett Favre:
11× Pro Bowl selection (1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2009)
3× First-team All-Pro selection (1995, 1996, 1997)
3× Second-team All-Pro selection (2001, 2002, 2007)
3× AP NFL MVP (1995–1997)
5× NFC Player of the Year (1995, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2007)
2× NFC Champion (1996, 1997)
Super Bowl champion (XXXI)
NFL 1990s All-Decade Team


John Elway:
9× Pro Bowl selection (1986, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998)
5× All-Pro selection (1986, 1987, 1993, 1996, 1997)
NFL 1990s All-Decade Team
1987 NFL MVP
2× Super Bowl champion (XXXII, XXXIII)
Super Bowl XXXIII MVP
2× UPI AFL-AFC Offensive Player of the Year (1987, 1993)
Denver Broncos Ring of Fame
Denver Broncos #7 retired
Colorado Sports Hall of Fame
Walter Camp Man of the Year

 

[hugobosstachini]

Lionel Messi.

Good? Yes indeed. Overrated? Vastly.

Hard to tell if Messi is overrated but I'll tend to agree with that though... FC Barcelona is an overrated team at the highest so as it's coach... especially Pep Guardiola who's mounted as a genius whereas he hasn't done anything special about the team... that guy is by far the most overrated person to have ever lived in the whole freaking universe... put the guy in a Barclay's PL team or any second leveled team like Marseille or PSG for us to laugh a bit. Livepool ??

I always wonder if each and every of these players bar David Villa and Mascherano if taken individually and transferred in a different team would still perform as they do in the Barcelona structure...

For Messi we already have answer when you watch him play in the Argentine team... he plainly sucks since there aren't the Xavis and Iniestas to feed him good balls and that's where the guy becomes an overrated player the most overrated player ever. Gonzalo Higuain is one of these highly overrated guys to.

 

[drakulie]

There it is again. "he plays with a lot of passion" What great QB doesn't?

reggie white, who doesn't QB any team.

It's just another term used to hype Favre where it isn't necessary (he's tough - aren't all FB players tough?

I suppose you just use the term "football player" to describe all football players. :roll:


One more thing, you are assisting in the "hype" you so much hate, by continuing to discuss him.

 

[drakulie]

I never stated that Favre was a bad QB. In fact, I think he's upper echelon. But that said, he can still be overrated even though he's a good QB.

all QB's could be overrated, including reggie white, who according to JBF single handedly won the superbowl.

 

[Breaker]

Hard to tell if Messi is overrated but I'll tend to agree with that though... FC Barcelona is an overrated team at the highest so as it's coach... especially Pep Guardiola who's mounted as a genius whereas he hasn't done anything special about the team... that guy is by far the most overrated person to have ever lived in the whole freaking universe... put the guy in a Barclay's PL team or any second leveled team like Marseille or PSG for us to laugh a bit. Livepool ??

I always wonder if each and every of these players bar David Villa and Mascherano if taken individually and transferred in a different team would still perform as they do in the Barcelona structure...

For Messi we already have answer when you watch him play in the Argentine team... he plainly sucks since there aren't the Xavis and Iniestas to feed him good balls and that's where the guy becomes an overrated player the most overrated player ever. Gonzalo Higuain is one of these highly overrated guys to.

Barca are overrated because their home grown players wouldn't perform as well if they had grown up somewhere else? Isn't that the ultimate praise you can have as a top club, that you can almost field an entire starting 11 who came through the academy level? Pep may be a bit overrated but he made them play the most beautiful passing football in the world and made them better than they had been before his appointment. Also obviously he wouldn't be able to do the same thing at a lower leveled club with less funds, let's put Mourinho or Sir Alex at Bolton and see how many trophies they win year after year! The top managers are at the top clubs because they suit their styles and have goals of winning trophies every year. At a second tier or lower club the goals are different and the expectations would be wildly changed.

Messi doesn't 'suck' in the Argentine team, he's not as good obviously but the Argentine team have no midfield since Cambiasso doesn't get picked and their defence is quite frankly a shambles, Jonas Gutierrez at right back and Heinze at left back says it all. Even then Messi played well in the World Cup even though he didn't score.

Also if we're going to **** off forwards who perform worse with a weak midfield we may as well write off every forward out there, none of them are going to perform up to their potential with a weak midfield. Ibrahimovic, Eto'o, Drogba, Rooney, Torres, Forlan, Ronaldo, all of them can not do much without proper service or tactics to help them.

Higuain is 21 and scored bagfuls already, he's not the best but he has shown potential to be one of the best in a couple of years.

 

[Dilettante]

Hard to tell if Messi is overrated but I'll tend to agree with that though... FC Barcelona is an overrated team at the highest so as it's coach... especially Pep Guardiola who's mounted as a genius whereas he hasn't done anything special about the team... that guy is by far the most overrated person to have ever lived in the whole freaking universe... put the guy in a Barclay's PL team or any second leveled team like Marseille or PSG for us to laugh a bit. Livepool ??

I always wonder if each and every of these players bar David Villa and Mascherano if taken individually and transferred in a different team would still perform as they do in the Barcelona structure...

For Messi we already have answer when you watch him play in the Argentine team... he plainly sucks since there aren't the Xavis and Iniestas to feed him good balls and that's where the guy becomes an overrated player the most overrated player ever. Gonzalo Higuain is one of these highly overrated guys to.

I don't think Messi sucks. I think he's a great player, but nowhere near to the place many people insists in putting him. I've heard so many times the "new Maradona" stuff or even the "GOAT" stuff that it's really sickening. Even Maradona compared Messi with himself (???). And it's totally delusional. They market him that way for current football fans think they are witnessing the GOAT or something.

Don't know if Barcelona is overrated, maybe they are, but they're a great team anyway. Piece by piece, they're simply the best at the moment. Too much talent, overrated or not. And for Villa, well, he played here in Valencia CF for years so I tell you: yes, he can perform the same or even better without a top-tier Barcelona surrounding him. He's probably the most complete striker out there.

And about Guardiola, well, I just can't stand him for whatever reason, same with Mourinho. These new Hugo Boss mannequins they put as managers are not my cup of tea.

Even then Messi played well in the World Cup

Not that well, not. For his magnitude as a player I consider his perfomance much disappointing even taking his youth in consideration.

1982 WC was considered a failure for an also young Maradona (ah, those days when media were not the compulsive asslickers they're today) but if you see some matches (Hungary-Argentina for an example) Maradona showed in a single match 20X what Messi showed in his whole 2010 WC. And that was in the Maradona's bad WC.

 

[SempreSami]

Matches at the World Cup were far more open back then, teams more willing to go forwards and refs less fussy.

 

[Dilettante]

Matches at the World Cup were far more open back then, teams more willing to go forwards and refs less fussy.

I have four words for you:

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS

Or these other three if you like:

W.T.F.

 

[Feña14]

And for Villa, well, he played here in Valencia CF for years so I tell you: yes, he can perform the same or even better without a top-tier Barcelona surrounding him. He's probably the most complete striker out there.

He's the best out and out finisher, no doubts about that. I'd say Drogba is more complete, though. He can do it all, but his strength and aerial ability put him ahead of Villa for me personally.

 

[Dilettante]

You're probably right. I was thinking tactically, about the work Villa did for his teams during these years doing functions as a striker but also as a winger, etc. But individually I think you're right, Drogba has it all.

 

[Feña14]

You're probably right. I was thinking tactically, about the work Villa did for his teams during these years doing functions as a striker but also as a winger, etc. But individually I think you're right, Drogba has it all.

Yeah, Drogba can do all the things the little modern day strikers like Villa, Eto'o, Tevez etc.. can, but he combines it with all the power and aerial ability that the old school centre forwards used to have. Let's not forget he's often Chelsea's best defender at set pieces, aswell as the ability to play centre back (like we saw in the last 10 minutes against Arsenal in the last game).

I'm a huge fan of Villa, though. He and Drogba are in a league of their own.

 

[hugobosstachini]

I don't think Messi sucks. I think he's a great player, but nowhere near to the place many people insists in putting him. I've heard so many times the "new Maradona" stuff or even the "GOAT" stuff that it's really sickening. Even Maradona compared Messi with himself (???). And it's totally delusional. They market him that way for current football fans think they are witnessing the GOAT or something.

Don't know if Barcelona is overrated, maybe they are, but they're a great team anyway. Piece by piece, they're simply the best at the moment. Too much talent, overrated or not. And for Villa, well, he played here in Valencia CF for years so I tell you: yes, he can perform the same or even better without a top-tier Barcelona surrounding him. He's probably the most complete striker out there.

And about Guardiola, well, I just can't stand him for whatever reason, same with Mourinho. These new Hugo Boss mannequins they put as managers are not my cup of tea.

Well that's why I said bar Villa because effectively Barca or not I know that guy is an ultimate talent... in Valencia he was almost the one keeping the club alive...

As I said Messi without a solid structure around him Xavi, Iniesta... isn't nothing... Messi in another team to me wouldn't be doing half of what he's done right now... there are far more players who's shown that by themselves they can keep up a team I think of Christiano Ronaldo, Benzema in Lyon but also Villa...

As for Barca Chelsea wasn't far sometime ago to show how useless this team can be as soon as you can organize your midfield and defense as one though they failed... Rubin Kazan although they play very defensive has yet shown again for the second time in a row making them Barca's pet peeve how to annihilate Pep's team that the medias glorify...

But without having to defend at that extent the Inter of Mourinho is what I liked the most... Barca is a team people glorify for nothing just because it is a trend and even when the team plays boredom soccer and are completely uninspired.

Mourinho has showed with FC Porto that he was able to win a competition like C1 though I must admit he had good players to work with...

Guardiola does his usual man managing wich isn't that so difficult when you have only talents in your team and that everything rolls well...

Now let's put that same Guardiola in Liverpool or in a low leveled team or in the Italan Serie A for us to laugh a bit and see how effective his genius would be... Mourinho out of nothing can create something and he's alreasy shown it in the past Pep I'm 100% sure he doesn't have enough for that...

Barca are overrated because their home grown players wouldn't perform as well if they had grown up somewhere else? Isn't that the ultimate praise you can have as a top club, that you can almost field an entire starting 11 who came through the academy level? Pep may be a bit overrated but he made them play the most beautiful passing football in the world and made them better than they had been before his appointment. Also obviously he wouldn't be able to do the same thing at a lower leveled club with less funds, let's put Mourinho or Sir Alex at Bolton and see how many trophies they win year after year! The top managers are at the top clubs because they suit their styles and have goals of winning trophies every year. At a second tier or lower club the goals are different and the expectations would be wildly changed.

Messi doesn't 'suck' in the Argentine team, he's not as good obviously but the Argentine team have no midfield since Cambiasso doesn't get picked and their defence is quite frankly a shambles, Jonas Gutierrez at right back and Heinze at left back says it all. Even then Messi played well in the World Cup even though he didn't score.

Also if we're going to **** off forwards who perform worse with a weak midfield we may as well write off every forward out there, none of them are going to perform up to their potential with a weak midfield. Ibrahimovic, Eto'o, Drogba, Rooney, Torres, Forlan, Ronaldo, all of them can not do much without proper service or tactics to help them.

Higuain is 21 and scored bagfuls already, he's not the best but he has shown potential to be one of the best in a couple of years.

Messi is lucky he's in la Liga but let's be honest that guy and all his other companions Xavi, Iniesta would be utter useless in Premier league and none would be considered as great players this is something we all know.

It's brilliance for Barca to have most of it's men from their academy I don't reproach them that but just the overall glorification of spanish football bores me... mainly because of Barca Spanish football has become overrated.

I've cautiously watched the german team in the World cup and this is by afar the greatest soccer I've seen there just the rapid overall execution of the team made wonders now here comes spain with there boredom of left, right, middle, right, center, forward then back again before they even find and once of a gram of a solution... sometimes you can have time take a nap before they even score a goal... and here comes the media glorifying boredom at times. :-?

I cautiously watched Rubin Kazan vs. Barca and who's that team ?? A low leveled russian team that comes with a well organized composition and very disciplined team almost no stars and suddenly they show how overrated Barca is even able on just one 2 touches of ball to if they were a little bit more realistic at 5-10 mins from the end of the match to be the first or second team I can't recall to beat Barca 2 times in row... Messi was clueless as usual when you give liberty and you don't attack/tacle him by all means...


I disagree with you on that the forwards absolutely needs a good midfield to perform at their best... the forwards you talk about are midfield dependent... but I can clearly remember Karim Benzema when in Lyon who as you might guess doesn't have the greatest midfield and especially when they played in a 4-2-3-1 utter defensive system almost a 4-3-2-1 was holding the whole team on his own and had to do the job good or bad service eveytime... Lyon when Benzema was there was still wining the Ligue 1 title and making C1 regularly so that tells you a bit...

I'm not saying you don't need at least one person to feed you good balls but I think a player like David Villa has shown and once again in the World Cup that just him alone midfield or not can unblock any type of situations... Spain's midfield was uninspired for most in the World Cup and who was saving the team each and every time, time and time again ?

Remember also CR8 when in Manchester Utd. if I recall well from almost middle of the field unleashed a missile which touched the upper bar signifying that him alone could save Man U... remember also CR8 in the Portuguese team in the World Cup too these are things IMO someone like Messi can't do on his own he needs people to back him up now put CR8 or Villa on any position on the field and I'm 100% sure on just one shot they can creat something out of nothing. Messi to create something needs the vista of Xavi and Iniesta and suddenly when there's no one to help him see or send him he sucks e.g argentine team.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

Dale Earnhardt Jr.

... who the hell is Dale Earnhardt Jr. anyway?

 

[Ronaldo]

Nadal, loser