My Groundstrokes: BACKHANDS AND FOREHANDS - please give me some feedback

[egilgrim]

I recently participated in the Norwegian national championship. My ranking allowed me to skip the qualification and enter the first round right away. Anyways, in the first round I met a guy who's ranked 9 in the boy's 16 and under division. I had a lot of background information about this player and his weakness (his extremely weak backhand) was pretty clear to me. So even though he is ranked 9 in the nation and I'm ranked about 80 I thought I had an okay chance to stay with him. And during the warm-up his strokes didn't seem to good to me and especially his backhand was an opportunity just waiting to be taken advantage of. But when we started playing I was shocked, and terrified. He had extreme power on his strokes and I could barely keep 2 balls in the court because of the power he was putting out. And the snowball-effect appeared, because whenever I could barely get my racket on a ball and chip it back he got another chance to hit an atomic winner. My point here is that I need to get more steam on my groundstrokes if I want to compete at this level, and I watched some more matches in the 16 and under and my strokes looked very weak compared to the higher ranked guys. Here's a video of my groundstrokes and some approach shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTg0hRefafA

My question for you guys is: How can I improve my technique to get more power, or just improve it in general. I'm left-handed with a windshield-wiper topspin forehand and a 2-handed backhanded. I'd appreciate some feedback thanks.

 

[courtratlwc]

You're making contact too high on your forehand. It looks like you're hitting them above shoulder level most of the time, which is causing you to lose power.You should try hitting the ball lower by your waist. It also looks like you may be opening up too soon on your forehand, but I could be wrong. Btw, what grip do you have on your backhand?

 

[dozu]

your FH looks deep and heavy... could you not find his BH during the match? was he controling the court with his FH?

you BH does look a little weak... I can't comment much on the 2hbh as myself uses 1h, but feels like there is some tension in your motion especially during the take back.. have you tried relax some more?

the 1h slice.... your wrist broke down on a few of them, which usually result in floaty balls... keep 'em firm and you should produce penetrating slices which keeps you safe from getting attacked.

 

[new_tennis_player]

I don't think hitting fh from a high position is all bad. But capitalize on it by hitting slightly down or at least straight with a lot of topspin. This will either give your opponent less time to setup or allow you to hit some winners.

Your 2hbh looks good. The 1hbh not as good, although certainly not bad.

You started young and with some hard work, you are on your way to becoming an advanced player.

 

[Rui]

Hitting against a machine is nothing like the guy you played.

Still, the high forehands you hit were topspin. That means you would be trying to either keep the point neutral or hoping for a short return. You are right to try to pick up the pace.

In my opinion, you need to transfer your body weight through your contact point on your forehand especially. You plant your foreward foot well before the ball arrives and then you pivot on it. You won't be able to generate power from that stance unless you hit much flatter. (Topspin takes off speed.)

Your backhand is a little more fluid. Sometimes you step up to the contact point and your weight edges forward after the ball is struck. That's better than twisting in place.

There a several videos on this board regarding footwork. Look some up.

 

[egilgrim]

your FH looks deep and heavy... could you not find his BH during the match? was he controling the court with his FH?

you BH does look a little weak... I can't comment much on the 2hbh as myself uses 1h, but feels like there is some tension in your motion especially during the take back.. have you tried relax some more?

the 1h slice.... your wrist broke down on a few of them, which usually result in floaty balls... keep 'em firm and you should produce penetrating slices which keeps you safe from getting attacked.

Thanks for your quick reply, and thanks to everybody else that have posted so far. Well, he hit about four or five backhands during the whole match, the rest of the time he ran around my shots that I placed there. Those four or five backhands he hit was some of the few points I got.

 

[dozu]

Thanks for your quick reply, and thanks to everybody else that have posted so far. Well, he hit about four or five backhands during the whole match, the rest of the time he ran around my shots that I placed there. Those four or five backhands he hit was some of the few points I got.

then you just gotta change it up... if he runs around this much, his FH corner must be open sometimes, you just have to keep him honest, to expose the BH side.... nobody is THIS quick to hit only 4-5 BH the entire match, unless you stubbornly trying to find his BH corner and he can just park there to hit the FH.

 

[egilgrim]

then you just gotta change it up... if he runs around this much, his FH corner must be open sometimes, you just have to keep him honest, to expose the BH side.... nobody is THIS quick to hit only 4-5 BH the entire match, unless you stubbornly trying to find his BH corner and he can just park there to hit the FH.

The problem I found was that he hit so hard, served so hard and just hit 200 % on whatever was coming to him so my shots ended up being very weak and slow, probably half the speed of what I hit with in that video.

 

[LeeD]

First of all, you hit very well, easily into what some of us consider the 4.5 range.
But you only hit heavy slow looping topspins, which give the opponent time to set up any way they want, and you don't hit forcing shots, but rather, you hit rally balls.
So flatten out your shots, or at least swing 40% harder using your whole body. Look at Nadal. He hits loopy shots predominantly, but can hit a HARDER looping shot using his whole kinetic chain when he wants to hit a baseline winner.
And variety being the "spice of life", you don't have it. You pound the heavy topspin over and over, so while it works fine against the majority of your competition, some guys will eat up that loopy high ball softy stuff. You found him.
Learn to slice some, like Federer, Nadal, Haas, Sampras, just for variety and alternative weapons. Learn to spin the ball sidespin, to add the variety.
Like your second serve, you don't always want to hit it the same way. You need, for a second serve, not only slice, but top/slice, pure top, kick, and twists.

 

[egilgrim]

First of all, you hit very well, easily into what some of us consider the 4.5 range.
But you only hit heavy slow looping topspins, which give the opponent time to set up any way they want, and you don't hit forcing shots, but rather, you hit rally balls.
So flatten out your shots, or at least swing 40% harder using your whole body. Look at Nadal. He hits loopy shots predominantly, but can hit a HARDER looping shot using his whole kinetic chain when he wants to hit a baseline winner.
And variety being the "spice of life", you don't have it. You pound the heavy topspin over and over, so while it works fine against the majority of your competition, some guys will eat up that loopy high ball softy stuff. You found him.
Learn to slice some, like Federer, Nadal, Haas, Sampras, just for variety and alternative weapons. Learn to spin the ball sidespin, to add the variety.
Like your second serve, you don't always want to hit it the same way. You need, for a second serve, not only slice, but top/slice, pure top, kick, and twists.

Thank you very much for your feedback mate, any comments on the technique on my slice though?

 

[ho]

you hit pretty well on your fh side, good.
But your 2hbh will be the one you need to improve. the obvious different of your 2hbh and the pro 2hbh is you hit far out on the side. it means you hit with your 2 arms only. to be effective, power and consistent, you need to hit closer to your body, and hit only with your body rotation, NO ARM.
have a pro 2hbh and your 2hbh, see the different and slowly fixe it.

 

[odessa]

Thanks for your quick reply, and thanks to everybody else that have posted so far. Well, he hit about four or five backhands during the whole match, the rest of the time he ran around my shots that I placed there. Those four or five backhands he hit was some of the few points I got.

How is that possible ?

You should be able to make him play a backhand return every time you serve.
There is not to much wrong with your topspin shots with these balls but if you try to hit with this style when the balls are coming fast and heavy your motion is probably to big.
Also train to hit power shots with alot of spin (you have a lots of spin with your grips and swing path, very nice racket drop) but with a flater arc. Use two lines over the net : one two feets over the net and one five feets. You want to hit between the two lines and balls should land between service and baseline. your high shot is good but you need to mix it up more aggressive shots.

Serve and return decides who is in charge in a tennis match. If somebody has a weak backhand you should be able to be competitive on your serve games.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I recently participated in the Norwegian national championship. My ranking allowed me to skip the qualification and enter the first round right away. Anyways, in the first round I met a guy who's ranked 9 in the boy's 16 and under division. I had a lot of background information about this player and his weakness (his extremely weak backhand) was pretty clear to me. So even though he is ranked 9 in the nation and I'm ranked about 80 I thought I had an okay chance to stay with him. And during the warm-up his strokes didn't seem to good to me and especially his backhand was an opportunity just waiting to be taken advantage of. But when we started playing I was shocked, and terrified. He had extreme power on his strokes and I could barely keep 2 balls in the court because of the power he was putting out. And the snowball-effect appeared, because whenever I could barely get my racket on a ball and chip it back he got another chance to hit an atomic winner. My point here is that I need to get more steam on my groundstrokes if I want to compete at this level, and I watched some more matches in the 16 and under and my strokes looked very weak compared to the higher ranked guys. Here's a video of my groundstrokes and some approach shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTg0hRefafA

My question for you guys is: How can I improve my technique to get more power, or just improve it in general. I'm left-handed with a windshield-wiper topspin forehand and a 2-handed backhanded. I'd appreciate some feedback thanks.

Your groundstrokes look pretty solid to me, although, I can't see the flight of the balls. The one thing that looks a little "different," to me, is that you are contacting the ball farther away from your body on your forehand than what I think is optimal. I would suggest setting up about 6" closer to the ball and making contact with a slightly bent elbow. But again, I can't see the flight of the ball. Your technique may work well for you. If so, stay with it. Federer also sets up far away from the ball.

But, my question to you is: why do you think you lost because of your groundstrokes? Is it possible that his tactics and/or approach to the game was better than yours? Tell me, what is your basic strategy? How do you construct points? What is your plan to set up winning points? Or, do you just bash the ball and hope your opponent misses first, or try to pick a weakness and hit only to that?

 

[masterxfob]

first and foremost, you need to seriously improve your footwork. the only time you actually step into a shot and appear to be in balance is on your 2hbh. your footwork on the slice and fh look horrendous, no weight transfer whatsoever and your back foot is all over the place. you haven't developed the proper strokes yet, so keeping that back foot down is going to be vital for you to develop any kind of power.

i guarantee that you will be a much better player just from getting your footwork proper. improve that first then correct your technique on the fh and slice. trying to correct everything at once will completely destroy your game.

 

[mtommer]

OP,

Frankly, you hit just fine. Also, to be as frank, "if you want to run faster, run faster." so to speak. From what I see in your video the only thing preventing you from hitting harder is that you aren't trying to hit harder. You're not using your momentum to the ball to generate additional power. You're not snapping or exploding you're body around your pivot point.

You have to realize that technique doesn't have so much to do with power. Power comes from timing and how well you see the ball. Technique allows you to harness your power to produce repeatable and more efficient performances.

 

[egilgrim]

Your groundstrokes look pretty solid to me, although, I can't see the flight of the balls. The one thing that looks a little "different," to me, is that you are contacting the ball farther away from your body on your forehand than what I think is optimal. I would suggest setting up about 6" closer to the ball and making contact with a slightly bent elbow. But again, I can't see the flight of the ball. Your technique may work well for you. If so, stay with it. Federer also sets up far away from the ball.

But, my question to you is: why do you think you lost because of your groundstrokes? Is it possible that his tactics and/or approach to the game was better than yours? Tell me, what is your basic strategy? How do you construct points? What is your plan to set up winning points? Or, do you just bash the ball and hope your opponent misses first, or try to pick a weakness and hit only to that?

Well, as I mentioned I tried to mainly keep the ball to his backhand side, just keeping it in play there because his backhand side was weak and inconsistent. I noticed somebody mentioning that I should have served to his backhand more and therefore gotten the advantage when I was serving. I realize now that I was so upset on trying to overpower this guy on the only stroke he didn't hit first and therefore ended up just bringing it as hard as possible down the middle, something that resulted in him managing to crush yet another winner on his forehand side.

 

[anchorage]

There are two areas that you can improve immediately.

The first is to get more racket acceleration through the ball. Your current swing speed looks relatively constant; from the slo mo's there's a small increase in speed through contact but not enough. So, think acceleration.

Second, keep your head still through the shot. Again, the slow mo's show you don't do that.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Well, as I mentioned I tried to mainly keep the ball to his backhand side, just keeping it in play there because his backhand side was weak and inconsistent. I noticed somebody mentioning that I should have served to his backhand more and therefore gotten the advantage when I was serving. I realize now that I was so upset on trying to overpower this guy on the only stroke he didn't hit first and therefore ended up just bringing it as hard as possible down the middle, something that resulted in him managing to crush yet another winner on his forehand side.

But, my question is - what is your "general" approach to setting up and winning points? What do you try to accomplish with your strategy, generally? For example both Nadal and Federer have a "general" approach that they employ against all opponents. Exploiting the weakness of particular opponent is only a secondary strategy - an exception to your general strategy.

 

[egilgrim]

But, my question is - what is your "general" approach to setting up and winning points? What do you try to accomplish with your strategy, generally? For example both Nadal and Federer have a "general" approach that they employ against all opponents. Exploiting the weakness of particular opponent is only a secondary strategy - an exception to your general strategy.

Well, I just keep the ball in play and wait for a short ball that I can attack their weakness on. Is that what the pros do or not?

 

[xinunix]

on your 2hbh look at the one you hit at 9:14-9:15, make every 2hbh look just like that. overall your fundamentals are very good but you tend to use too much arm at times and you miss out on the potential power from your legs and core. in that 2hbh at 9:14-9:15 everything was in sync, you hit the ball on the rise, you drove through that ball footwork was good. my advice, watch that shot and figure out how to repeat it.

 

[Chanto]

Well, I just keep the ball in play and wait for a short ball that I can attack their weakness on. Is that what the pros do or not?

That does seem to suit your current playstyle. The problem is, if you can't keep the ball in play, then what? It sounded like you were having trouble doing that against your opponent. Playing against guys like that, you have to go for broke, imo.

 

[xinunix]

Another thing I just noticed on your backhand slice, pause the video at 10:49 and look at how low your racquet head is going into that slice. The end result of a low racquet head is almost always a fluffy floating slice that is going to set up right in the wheelhouse of your opponent, especially one like you played last week. Try keeping the racquet head high and the ball out in front of you, really use your legs to drive through the slice, the result will be a much tighter slice that stays low which will force your opponent to have to stretch or reach to return it rather than just teeing off on a waist high ball. Watch your weight shift on that slice, instead of driving through the ball (weight shift into the court and through the ball) you step sideways which basically means that shot is being hit all arms.

When you are on the defensive against a solid hitter a nice tight slice with good angles is key to regaining control of a point. Floaters like the one you hit at 10:49 are a gift to your opponent.

 

[egilgrim]

That does seem to suit your current playstyle. The problem is, if you can't keep the ball in play, then what? It sounded like you were having trouble doing that against your opponent. Playing against guys like that, you have to go for broke, imo.

So you want me to step in and attack sooner rather than later?

 

[egilgrim]

Another thing I just noticed on your backhand slice, pause the video at 10:49 and look at how low your racquet head is going into that slice. The end result of a low racquet head is almost always a fluffy floating slice that is going to set up right in the wheelhouse of your opponent, especially one like you played last week. Try keeping the racquet head high and the ball out in front of you, really use your legs to drive through the slice, the result will be a much tighter slice that stays low which will force your opponent to have to stretch or reach to return it rather than just teeing off on a waist high ball. Watch your weight shift on that slice, instead of driving through the ball (weight shift into the court and through the ball) you step sideways which basically means that shot is being hit all arms.

When you are on the defensive against a solid hitter a nice tight slice with good angles is key to regaining control of a point. Floaters like the one you hit at 10:49 are a gift to your opponent.

Thank you very much, will try that on the court tomorrow.

 

[Fugazi]

First of all, your topspin BH is by far your best shot. So use it as much as you can. Your one handed slice doesn't quite have proper technique and spin IMO. Try to had more spin and hit it with more power.

Your FH lacks racquet head speed, and you hit the ball too high. Your FH needs to be much firmer. I suggest that you pack a bit of muscle to improve that FH, but you can also just focus on putting more power and topspin by using your forearm more. Don't just caress the ball, hit it with all you got!!!

Louis
(5.0 player)

 

[Chanto]

So you want me to step in and attack sooner rather than later?

If you really think about it, it's not the speed of the ball, it's the amount of time it takes for it to get to the other side that really counts. If you hit a really powerful forehand, couldn't you get the same effect from moving in and taking volleys? Slower, perhaps, but to your opponent it will feel like you're getting the ball over faster. Hitting the ball on the rise will definitely be an asset to your game if you can do that well too.

 

[Fugazi]

I can't believe that some people said your FH is Ok and your BH needs work... Believe me, it's the opposite. Like I said earlier, you need to hit much, much firmer on your FH. Technique is not bad really, but needs more tone (not just during your forward swing, but also during your backswing: Just watch Nadal or Federer from up close to see the extent of their racquet speed).

To get a bit more power off that BH, try hitting the ball on the rise, somewhere around hip level.

Louis
(unverified 5.0-5.5 player, former national level junior in Canada)

 

[Limpinhitter]

Deleted by poster!

 

[xinunix]

After watching your forehand some more one thing that might help is to work on the timing of your weight transfer with your swing. If you watch those segments where you hit a series of forehands in a row you can start to see a pattern. You have a very open stance, which is fine but your hips are opening and your weight is transferring well before you are making contact with the ball. As a result, all of that kinetic energy from your weight transfer is totally lost leaving only your arm to transfer energy into the ball. Watching the video it is pretty consistent, your swing goes through two steps, 1) open hips transfer weight 2) arm swing. What I would work on is making those 1 step. You need to be making contact with the ball at the same time you are opening up and transferring your weight. This will result in a much more fluid driving swing and you will get a lot more power then you are getting right now trying to compensate with your arm. I have found that a good way to feel the difference is to force yourself to close your stance a bit (only while practicing, open stance is fine if your timing is working), that will help you find the timing. The goal is to have your weight transfering through the ball at the exact same time your racquet is making contact, which results in a more fluid kinetic chain and maximizes your power.

 

[masterxfob]

you guys are going to confuse the f_ ck out of this kid. what he really needs to improve is his footwork.

 

[egilgrim]

After watching your forehand some more one thing that might help is to work on the timing of your weight transfer with your swing. If you watch those segments where you hit a series of forehands in a row you can start to see a pattern. You have a very open stance, which is fine but your hips are opening and your weight is transferring well before you are making contact with the ball. As a result, all of that kinetic energy from your weight transfer is totally lost leaving only your arm to transfer energy into the ball. Watching the video it is pretty consistent, your swing goes through two steps, 1) open hips transfer weight 2) arm swing. What I would work on is making those 1 step. You need to be making contact with the ball at the same time you are opening up and transferring your weight. This will result in a much more fluid driving swing and you will get a lot more power then you are getting right now trying to compensate with your arm. I have found that a good way to feel the difference is to force yourself to close your stance a bit (only while practicing, open stance is fine if your timing is working), that will help you find the timing. The goal is to have your weight transfering through the ball at the exact same time your racquet is making contact, which results in a more fluid kinetic chain and maximizes your power.

Okay, my forehand has a tendency to mess up when I play long matches, can the reason be because I use my arm too much?

 

[NLBwell]

First, don't be too hard on yourself, he is ranked 9 for a reason.

As xinuix said in his very good post, your back hip comes through too soon on the forehand, thus releasing the tension (energy) out of your body before it gets to the ball and you end up pushing at the ball with just your arm. You end up just kind of spinning around. In general, on all of your shots, you aren't getting much power from your lower body and trunk. Your slice backhand is pretty much a scoop. You need to learn how to hit a decent slice. One can hit a hard driving slice if hit through it with a flat racket face. Again, you aren't using your lower body well. Your 2 hander is a little better, you do set your lower body better. All your shots are hit quite far from your body, which can be a problem. In general, there is little energy going into the ball.

To hit harder, go out and hit a bunch of balls as far as you can. Do this a lot of times - maybe every day for a couple of weeks. You need to get the feeling of channeling your body's energy into the ball. If you have a sledgehammer, pound some things into the ground or into a wall (not a lot, it can be hard on your joints). After you learn how to hit a ball hard (you will get the feeling of how the kinetic chain works) then go out on the court and learn how to use it. You will develop very different strokes. You probably will lose a lot of control and get worse for a while until you develop control because the ball will be moving much faster.


Also, move the ball away from your feet. Taking the time to do that is quicker than being out of tennis for a year because of a broken ankle (like Tommy Haas).

 

[NLBwell]

When looking at your forehands at around the 7:30 to 8:00 mark, notice how much energy is going into spinning your body around, how much is going to the right, how much is going upwards, and how little is going into the ball. You are pretty much just using the front of your shoulder to push the ball whereas there is actually quite a lot of energy in your swing - it is just dissipated and doesn't get to the ball.

 

[pvaudio]

Three things in order of nececssity:

1. Footwork. Your footwork is straight up garbage. I know you're using a ball machine, but act like you're out there. Stay on your toes and be ready to move at any moment. That's why you couldn't return your opponents balls: they weren't too hard, your feet were just too slow.

2. Take the ball on the rise! You're just sitting there waiting for a high ball to come back down which is in turn changing the "opponent's" defensive ball into either a neutral ball or a defensive return for you. Step into the court and neutralize the high bounce.

3. Get more variety on both wings. You're just hacking down on it with a lot of topspin when most of those shots need to be hit through far more than you're doing.

Try that and see if it doesn't help.