need help with topspin kick serve

[raiden031]

I'm working on my second serve, which is going to be a topspin kick serve (purposely excluding the twist kick serve from this thread). I'm having trouble consistently hitting this serve. Here are some derivations from my first serve I've been trying as a result of multiple sources of information I've read on the topic:

- Slightly move to an eastern backhand grip instead of a continental
- Toss the ball slightly behind you, instead of in front of you, and a little to the left.
- Brush upward on the ball more, and go through the ball less.

The problems I have are that sometimes the ball will go really high because of the upwards stroke, and will sail long or when landing in, its a serve that looks a bit like a mini topspin lob, with little pace. Also sometimes I have trouble getting a good hit on the ball because I have to stretch my back so much to reach the toss which is in an awkward position. Any pointers?

 

[Xevoius]

It is sort of something that you can only hit once in a while at first until you get the feel of what your body is doing when you hit it correctly. Then over time you will be able to replicate the toss and body movement to produce the same result.

It is a very difficult shot to master for most and it sounds like you have the right set of strategies.

Make sure to really stay bouncy off the balls of your feet. You want your body to be moving upward to get that extra cut upward on the ball.

Do not focus on getting any pace whatsoever on the ball but try to get your strings to make the sound like they are scraping the side of the ball. Focus on much higher than normal net clearance and allow the spin to pull the ball back into the serve box.

Good Luck!

 

[SlapShot]

Honestly, go out and practice it. You've got the ideas down, now go out and work at it.

I spent many days with hoppers working on a kick serve, and one day, it just kinda clicked. Now it's my primary serve, and my first serve is about 75% most days.

 

[gsquicksilver]

well, my old high school coach back in the days when he taught me that serve, recommend that i bend my knees more backward instead of arching my back as far. this, he says, will give me less back issues in the long run. i guess it just stuck with me, cuz 11 years later, i still bend my knees more backward instead of my back hitting this serve.

i don't know if this will help you but it did for me.

 

[andreh]

One note: You don't necessarily TOSS behind you, but the ball should be slightly behind you when you make contact with the ball. If you lean into the court (say, for a serve and volley) you may very toss in front of you. The lean will still place the ball slightly behind you at contact.

and BTW, what you described is exactly that of a twist serve, except possibly for the follow through which didn't mention.

 

[raiden031]

One note: You don't necessarily TOSS behind you, but the ball should be slightly behind you when you make contact with the ball. If you lean into the court (say, for a serve and volley) you may very toss in front of you. The lean will still place the ball slightly behind you at contact.

and BTW, what you described is exactly that of a twist serve, except possibly for the follow through which didn't mention.

What do you do differently between the twist and the topspin? The reason I want the top spin is because I would rather the ball bounce about face height, because it will tear up people at my level more than a twist would.

 

[andreh]

The twist is a topspin serve with a bit of sidespine that makes the ball kick high and toward the right-handed returners backhand. It is often used in the ad-court to force the returner wide.

 

[raiden031]

The twist is a topspin serve with a bit of sidespine that makes the ball kick high and toward the right-handed returners backhand. It is often used in the ad-court to force the returner wide.

But as far as serve technique, what do you do differently to get one or the other?

 

[Pusher]

It is sort of something that you can only hit once in a while at first until you get the feel of what your body is doing when you hit it correctly. Then over time you will be able to replicate the toss and body movement to produce the same result.

It is a very difficult shot to master for most and it sounds like you have the right set of strategies.

Make sure to really stay bouncy off the balls of your feet. You want your body to be moving upward to get that extra cut upward on the ball.

Do not focus on getting any pace whatsoever on the ball but try to get your strings to make the sound like they are scraping the side of the ball. Focus on much higher than normal net clearance and allow the spin to pull the ball back into the serve box.

Good Luck!

Thats good advice.

But a few questions;

1-Doesn't racquet preparation play a role? Maybe with the racquet tucked in closer to your back-the "scratch your back" technique?

2-Whenever I happen to hit a good kick serve it seems like I make contact in the upper portion of the frame-is that normal?

Thanks

 

[JWin]

My thought process in hitting that serve is to "feel" as though you are tossing more toward 11 or 12 rather than 1, and the sensation is that you are running the racquet at an angle [right handed player] to your left, and brushing over the top of the ball, to kick/topspin reduce the angle felt in your arm toward your left and toss a little so you "brush the top and side" rather than just the top.

This is what it feels like when I do it right, probably not what it looks like exactly, it has been a long time since I saw my serve on camera.

 

[metsjets]

as you bend your legs and arch (do not bend your back) your back backward, toss the ball so it will land on your head. standing straight, the ball should land a foot or two behind you.

 

[drgnpride]

the key is rotation of your torso. your whole body should be loose and relaxed. as you toss, rotate your shoulders and back so that you are showing your back to your opponent. toss should be slightly in front but more overhead and to your left (if you're a righty). if you toss it behind you you will have no pace and hit it into the net, you should be moving forward even though you're turning your back on the direction you're moving. keep your arm loose and relaxed and brush up on the ball, from bottom to top for pure topspin, and from 7 to 1 for twist. to get more pace, add knee flexion extension and eventually jump up to get the ball.

the degree of rotation feels unnatural and uncontrollable at first but as you practice it's more reliable than a flat serve and tougher to return than just dinking over a 2nd serve.

 

[sportsmad]

when they say toss slightly behind you remeber that you will be standing at right angles to the baseline so the toss will still be slightly in front of the baseline but at around 11 oclock.I have seen people get frustrated from trying to learn the kick serve all because they think that they have to toss the ball behind the baseline,when all they need to do is toss it slightly behind their head but still in front of the baseline.
sorry just read the above post drgnpride has already cleared this point up really well

 

[andreh]

But as far as serve technique, what do you do differently to get one or the other?

A regular topspin serve can be hit from a 12 o'clock toss simply by hitting "up" on the ball. Actually, most flat 1st serves have some degree a topspin because they are hit this way. A pronounced "topspin" serve usually just involves hitting more "up" on the ball instead of "through" the ball to give it extra spin a bit clearance over the net.

On twist serve the toss is more at 10-11 o'clock the path of the swing is more parallell to the baseline, which gives the ball some sidespin as well. Some times when people say "kick" they refer to either serve, other times they specifically mean the twist. I find that the term "twist" is only used by americans. The rest of the world seems simply to say "kick", but what type of serve they mean is often unclear.

 

[mucat]

- Slightly move to an eastern backhand grip instead of a continental
- Toss the ball slightly behind you, instead of in front of you, and a little to the left.
- Brush upward on the ball more, and go through the ball less.

2) Toss can still be inside the court, but the most important thing is to the left (in court dimension), since for the kick serve, you will be standing sideway, so it is behind you. As you get better with this serve, you will notice you do not have to toss to the left to excute it. But toss to the left does make it easier.

3) You still hit through the ball, just like the topspin groundstrokes, you want to have both pace and spin. To have both pace and spin on your kick serve, you need to have enough upward and forward movement on your forward swing. Try lower your contact point, it will be easier to create topspin. Your swing path should be from left to right and forward.

 

[andreh]

Also, it's not necessary to use a eastern backhand grip, but some find it adds more spin. I use a pure continental myself.

 

[Safina]

i have been using a "slide-step" to serve, but I think a platform stance might make it easier to execute this shot.
I say this because,
1. Federer does it
2. my torso seems to unwind too quickly with the slide-step, platform might keep me behind the ball and coiled longer.
3. i'm just searching for a clue on the kick serve