Nishikori "frustrated" at being stuck in GS quarter finals.
- Thread starter George Turner
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Mainad
Bionic Poster
Nishikori has always had a great game apart from a rather weak serve. He wouldn't have got as high as #4 in the world otherwise and he is still firmly entrenched in the top #10. That's got to say something. His main trouble is his body. In addition to his height disadvantage, his fitness and stamina are always suspect. We just know that if he has had to come through several tough matches in a row (as at this year's RG) he will eventually get blown off the court by somebody or he will withdraw at some point. His body just can't hold up against that kind of sustained pressure. It's his great misfortune.
The fact that he wins such a high percentage of deciding set tie-breaks proves to me that he is a fighter. The way he faced down Paire when Paire was serving for the match is, to me, a typical indication of that so, for some to argue that he is a quitter, is unfair and not really borne out by the facts. He almost always tries his best but his body just keeps letting him down. It's his body rather than his courage or willpower that is lacking.
He has certainly been over-hyped (I'll never forget for instance how he, and not Murray, was touted by many tennis commentators as one of the favourites for 2016 RG when Andy had just won Rome and had 2 clay Masters titles to his name whereas Kei had never won anything big on clay and never got past the 4th round whereas Andy reached the final) although that is not his fault. He will turn 30 at the end of this year and has yet to win anything big. It's now highly unlikely he will ever win a Slam but I don't think a Masters title is beyond his reach and I hope he manages to win 1 of those before he's done. His talent deserves at least that much.
The fact that he wins such a high percentage of deciding set tie-breaks proves to me that he is a fighter. The way he faced down Paire when Paire was serving for the match is, to me, a typical indication of that so, for some to argue that he is a quitter, is unfair and not really borne out by the facts. He almost always tries his best but his body just keeps letting him down. It's his body rather than his courage or willpower that is lacking.
He has certainly been over-hyped (I'll never forget for instance how he, and not Murray, was touted by many tennis commentators as one of the favourites for 2016 RG when Andy had just won Rome and had 2 clay Masters titles to his name whereas Kei had never won anything big on clay and never got past the 4th round whereas Andy reached the final) although that is not his fault. He will turn 30 at the end of this year and has yet to win anything big. It's now highly unlikely he will ever win a Slam but I don't think a Masters title is beyond his reach and I hope he manages to win 1 of those before he's done. His talent deserves at least that much.
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Mainad
Bionic Poster
That guy's thoughts on anybody apart from Sampras and the Big 3 were always summed up in a 3 letter word usually spelled out in big black capitals.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Nadal really went out on a limb here.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Ferrer had a much better return game. With a better serve I think Ferrer would have had a few majors. Nishikori? I don't think so. His return game is over-hyped.
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
Ferrer only really started getting consistent 7 years ago, at around age 29, the age Nishikori is now. Time is running out for NIshikori, and his mental weakness doesn't help. Also doesn't help that the tour has some strong young players now, as opposed to 2012 (where the young players were Nishikori himself)
RaulRamirez
Legend
American version?
RaulRamirez
Legend
Agreed. I was going to post something similar about his great (isn't it the best in history, as recorded?) deciding-set record. You don't amass that by being emotionally fragile - there is definitely a fighter in him.
George Turner
Hall of Fame
7th most dangerous player in the world?
What has the world come to if that's the case
Looking at past players typically ranked around 7;
2011-2015 Tomas Berdych/David Ferrer
2006-2010 Andy Roddick, Nikolay Davydenko
2000-2005 Marat Safin, Lleyton Hewitt (both reached number one)
1995-1999 Tim Henman, Todd Martin
1990-1994 Michael Stich, Michael Chang, Boris Becker (was never at his very peak after losing the 1991 Wimbledon final)
1985-1989 Washed up John McEnroe, Old Jimmy Connors
Of this lot, Roddick, Safin, Hewitt, Stich, Chang and Becker were clearly more dangerous "number sevens". Most of the others (aka Berdych, Martin etc.) Were slightly better players than Kei.
He is a relatively weak number seven.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I don't think that ranking necessarily equals danger.
George Turner
Hall of Fame
Certainly doesn't. But Typically a world number seven would be more dangerous than Kei.
RaulRamirez
Legend
I don't know how to assess "dangerous". Kei's a very good and consistent player. If my quick figures are correct, he's made the QFs or better in 10 of the last 16 majors that he's entered. Not bad at all.
The record shows that he's quite 'dangerous' in the first 4 rounds of majors, and not as 'dangerous' afterward. By that point, he's a little worn down and usually battling bigger, better players.
The record shows that he's quite 'dangerous' in the first 4 rounds of majors, and not as 'dangerous' afterward. By that point, he's a little worn down and usually battling bigger, better players.
I was very bullish on Kei back at the end of 2014, but he's plateaued since then. His numerous physical setbacks and the endless drubbings he's received at the hands of the Big 3 have kind of shattered any confidence he once had that he could break through and beat the best players on the best stage. He just seems mentally beaten before he even steps on court. His serve is obviously not a big help either, but the rest of his game should allow him to be more competitive with the top guys than he has been the last few seasons.
The comparison based on playing styles makes sense, but how is Nishikori the American version of anything?
Deon Sanders
Legend
Its not even easy money anymore to bet heavy against him every single second week
The word has been out for a while now. Keith's picture is next to the encyclopedia entry for mug
The word has been out for a while now. Keith's picture is next to the encyclopedia entry for mug
Dont understand the hate you have for Kei losing to the clay GOAT. I honestly think many of you guys are just Nadal haters that wanted Nadal to have to fight harder so that he might be more tired for Djokovic or Thiem this Sunday. You have to be delusional to think that the scoreline in a best of 5 on Parisian clay would be that much better even if Kei had played at 150%.
And LOL at the hate and puzzlement many of you have that Kei keeps reaching QF’s at slams. He’s a good, consistent top 10 player who should be reaching the 4th round/QF’s of slams and masters consistently, which he indeed does. He’s just not a serious contender at the business end of Slams outside of the stars perfectly aligning e.g. 2014 US Open. Not everyone is a GOAT contender. The ATP tour is mich more than just the top 3. Kei’s only crime is being overhyped of which he is a victim of.
And LOL at the hate and puzzlement many of you have that Kei keeps reaching QF’s at slams. He’s a good, consistent top 10 player who should be reaching the 4th round/QF’s of slams and masters consistently, which he indeed does. He’s just not a serious contender at the business end of Slams outside of the stars perfectly aligning e.g. 2014 US Open. Not everyone is a GOAT contender. The ATP tour is mich more than just the top 3. Kei’s only crime is being overhyped of which he is a victim of.
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
Glassikori is that way due to his height. He doesn't have a dominant serve, so he has to rally too much on his service games. All that extra rallying from a young age has taken its toll on his body. So I'm not surprised he only has one trip to a GS final. OTOH, you have to admire his doggedness in how he keeps coming back from injuries to the top 10.
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
On WTA they don't know how to return serve and it's 2019. On the ATP, bad 2nd serves get punished by everyone since 20 years ago. So as much as I love Ash's game, it's still junior league.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Nishi, the perrenial walkover
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
I never understand why people blame Nishikori (or Raonic) for there being nobody of their age who is better than them. They are both very good players who held down positions in the top 10 for a while and the top 20 for most of their careers, who made Slam finals, and Masters finals, and did close to as well as they could do for their ability. They are not good top 4 players, no. But they are good top 10 players, and that's an outstanding achievement. If there were a Djokovic born in 1989 or 1990, nobody would be so hard on Nishikori or Raonic as they are. But it is nothing whatsoever to do with them that there is no Djokovic in their age cohort (the actual Djokovic isn't that much older, but, anyway). In Dimitrov's case, he's probably underachieved, and so he can be criticized for that, although if he prefers a career as a nearly man and the more relaxed and fun life that goes with that, fair play to him, too. However, he could have achieved more than he has. I don't think that Nishikori or Raonic could do so.
As for Nishikori's losing streak in quarter-finals, it's the byproduct of his mental strength, actually. He's not that much better than the lower-ranked players, so he has to work much harder to beat them. That he consistently does so, anyway, is a credit to him. He would indeed be more likely to test Nadal or Djokovic if he went in fresh, but that's a product of having less cushion than them over lower-ranked players and of the seeding system deliberately helping them more than it does him.
As for Nishikori's losing streak in quarter-finals, it's the byproduct of his mental strength, actually. He's not that much better than the lower-ranked players, so he has to work much harder to beat them. That he consistently does so, anyway, is a credit to him. He would indeed be more likely to test Nadal or Djokovic if he went in fresh, but that's a product of having less cushion than them over lower-ranked players and of the seeding system deliberately helping them more than it does him.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
It's like asking what Gasquet could do to win slams. The answer is "nothing," since he's not good enough. Neither is Kei.
His career highlight will almost certainly be making the USO finals in 2014.
skip1969
G.O.A.T.
Nishi is one of those players who can be dangerous. And he's fairly consistent . . . when he's not injured. And that's the thing. His game/power has it's own limitations, but he fragile as hell, too. He seems super likeable and he's no more horrible to watch than any of the other grinders on tour. But I don't rate him at the Slams cos he's made of glass.
There have been a slew of players in his mold, good but not great. And dangerous . . . to a point. And there's no shame in that. He's just not top tier. For me, he's like the guy I expect to make his seeding, and then totally flame out to someone obviously better than he is.
There have been a slew of players in his mold, good but not great. And dangerous . . . to a point. And there's no shame in that. He's just not top tier. For me, he's like the guy I expect to make his seeding, and then totally flame out to someone obviously better than he is.
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jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Here is the full quote:
“I have got to keep trying to work, to finish in straight sets, but that means maybe I’m not good enough tennis-wise and also mental-wise. I just have to keep working. I’m always stuck in the quarter-finals in Grand Slams, and I think the next goal is to be in the semi-final or final.”
Maybe he means "I am not good enough yet, but if I keep working I'll get better results"
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
Kei was my next #1 back when I started follwing him as a junior. I gave him the first year to acclimate to the ATP, but thought he'd be a GS finalist and #1 pretty quick. Of course, early injuries I thought were a setback, but even after he just never quite developed past a top 10 guy. I mean, success is measured in many different ways over a career, and Kei is very successful, but not in terms of those top honors of titles. He is akin to a Ferrer, who is anothe of my all-time faves, but Kei had the weapons beyond a Ferrer. Just crazy.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe, but I find that hard to believe considering it will only get tougher from here. I mean the young guys are starting to come around. He is about to be 30, and with his injury history, it is not projecting good.
Bukowski
Professional
It’s really simple. His game is just too 1 dimensional. No variety. Average at best net game. And all in an era that’s dominated by guys who play his game better. He will never beat Novak or Rafa in these matches by playing their game, which is what he tries to do every time.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Wow 2011-2015 was strong as hell.
Spanglish72
Rookie
He's maxed out his talent, just like David Ferrer did.
Dansan
Semi-Pro
The guy since 2014 has made at least the quaterfinals in slams, and people say he's a weak player Kei is a hard worker with a lot of fight. For fans, it's stressful/frustrating watching his matches because they are always long, close, and nail biter finishes where he barely eeks out the W. He's also a really nice person that treats the game and his opponent with a lot of respect. I think for him personally it has to be very frustrating to get to this level and hit a plateau but he's playing against the likes of Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, Thiem.....Not many can get past this wall of once in a lifetime talent currently. For his time, he has been hugely successful IMO
Kei is a hard worker with a lot of fight. For fans, it's stressful/frustrating watching his matches because they are always long, close, and nail biter finishes where he barely eeks out the W. He's also a really nice person that treats the game and his opponent with a lot of respect. I think for him personally it has to be very frustrating to get to this level and hit a plateau but he's playing against the likes of Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, Thiem.....Not many can get past this wall of once in a lifetime talent currently. For his time, he has been hugely successful IMO
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
Thiem death stare is best death stare
Changing that avatar was a terrible mistake.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
How so?
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Nishikori's body is only half the excuse. I feel like a lot of people have overrated his talent for a long time. The truth is that even if he was ever 100% healthy for a long period of time he still loses to the Big 3, 9 times out of 10 because he's just not as good as them on most days, and he's not scaring them at all with that serve+FH combo. In terms of potential to upset the Big 3 at the occasional slam you need Wawrinka/Cilic/Anderson type power and going back a bit farther, Berdych, Tsonga, and Delpo were always considered moderately dangerous, and even those guys only did it once in a blue moon.
Nishikori was never in that category simply because of stature.
Nishikori was never in that category simply because of stature.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
Your new avi isn’t as memeable.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I feel sure there was someone else who had the potential to cause the odd upset against the odd Big 3er but for the life of me I can't seem to recall who that was.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
To who, exactly? Here are his H2H's against the big guys:
Fed: 7-3
Rafa: 10-2
Djoker: 16-2
So Kei's record against the big three is an abysmal 7-33.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, at least he completed the match unlike the Australian Open against his master, Djokovic.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Huh. I heard differently from a reliable source. Wasn't it something like 2-5000 against the top guys?
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
He was 0 17 against Federer.
How embarassing but you are ok with that, of course.
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The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
It'd be great if he could reach the second week without being fricking gassed or physically hindered, my anticipation for a good match against a big three player would be higher...
If only he was a little more serve dominant...
If only he was a little more serve dominant...
wangs78
Legend
I see what you did there
wangs78
Legend
Kei is basically underpowered. Very similar to Ferrer. And guess what, they are about the same height.
I think people who say he gives up and tanks are wrong. That body language is just due to him knowing how hard he has to fight to beat an opponent who can hit harder than him with less effort.
He does need to take more risks and be more aggressive. It may mean fewer wins and fewer Slam QFs but at least when he does make it he'll have a better chance of winning.
I think people who say he gives up and tanks are wrong. That body language is just due to him knowing how hard he has to fight to beat an opponent who can hit harder than him with less effort.
He does need to take more risks and be more aggressive. It may mean fewer wins and fewer Slam QFs but at least when he does make it he'll have a better chance of winning.
-snake-
Hall of Fame
Funny you should say that, all this could be applied to DelMartyr too, and yet, you're always trashing the guy every chance you get. Let Gazelle hate whoever he wants.
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
Unfortunately the Pareto Distribution gets very unkind on the extreme left side, with a large, unbridgeable gap between the top three guys and the rest of the field. Not even the guys close to them are capable of staying with them, because the gaps get more extreme as the top 20% of the distribution thins out towards #1.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Please quote me saying Delpo shouldn't dare to make Slam QFs again or something along those lines.
wangs78
Legend
I wouldn't call that abysmal at all. You look at all the players who have won or made Slam finals and spent the last 10+ years playing the Big 3 and Kei comes out in the top half in terms of win rate.
Murray 29-56 (34%)
Tsonga 16-36 (31%)
Delpo 17-45 (27%)
Nishikori 7-33 (18%)
Berdych 13-65 (17%)
Ferrer 11-59 (16%)
Wawrinka 11-59 (16%)
Cilic 5-32 (14%)
Anderson 2-19 (10%)
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Thundergod
Hall of Fame
The sad thing is that the USO 14 win vs Djokovic and that horror show vs Fed at last year's WTF are the only wins I remember and I almost forgot the latter win.
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