mike danny
Bionic Poster
Oh, ok.
No one takes Nadal's place as my main rival ever, doesn't matter what Alcaraz does
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
duaneeo
Legend
That was the gist of my post: quantity not quality. 18 slams meetings of two same-aged ATGs, yet only 3 epic matches...one outside of both players' peak/prime. And of course, 10 of the 18 slam meetings were at RG, as there were too-few meetings at the other slams.
Fiero425
Legend
Fiero425
Legend
"Sometimes you have a bad day at the office" as Aussies use to say like Stolle! I think half those contests between more than likely had an imbalance mentally or physically! It had to be rare for them to be in sync at the top of their games!
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
LMAO What a stupid ignorant post. Did you wake up out of a slumber and just get all your facts from Wikipedia?
Federer/Nadal Basel 2015 was a Finals match with Nadal having beaten several strong players en route to the final against Federer.
Miami 2017 was another Nadal/Federer final with Nadal having beaten multiple strong leading up to Federer.
Prior to the Sunshine double, Nadal had made the finals in Mexico which proved his strong form and confidence.
And right after Miami, Nadal won 3 consecutive clay tournaments including Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Madrid.
Basically Nadal was beating EVERYONE except Federer in those tournaments they played on hards.
But whatever...keep reaching
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Probably because the guy on the other side of the net had something to do with that LOL
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
You clearly haven't watched any of these matches. Who cares what Nadal won on clay in 2017? He was absolute garbage in Miami final. Just like Federer winning Wimbledon 2012 doesn't mean he wasn't total garbage in RG semifinal. If anything, Nadal was coming to that Miami final with almost a year with no titles. And yeah, losing to Querrey definitely shows he was in great form, LOL. Stop writing BS. Watch the matches first.LMAO What a stupid ignorant post. Did you wake up out of a slumber and just get all your facts from Wikipedia?
Federer/Nadal Basel 2015 was a Finals match with Nadal having beaten several strong players en route to the final against Federer.
Miami 2017 was another Nadal/Federer final with Nadal having beaten multiple strong leading up to Federer.
Prior to the Sunshine double, Nadal had made the finals in Mexico which proved his strong form and confidence.
And right after Miami, Nadal won 3 consecutive clay tournaments including Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Madrid.
Basically Nadal was beating EVERYONE except Federer in those tournaments they played on hards.
But whatever...keep reaching
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Nadal lost to a superior player on the day. No excuses needed.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
He played like trash. And I'm not going to say it was a win over a strong Nadal when it clearly wasn't the case. At least watch matches before writing some BS.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Federer played like trash in a lot of his matches against Nadal and choked in many of them. What now?
Fiero425
Legend
Please stop with the injury BS! If hurt, DON'T PLAY!
Well, Nadal is not sitting at home because he is bored to compete on the tour.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
"Pales in comparison" Is never used to just mean a slight difference.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
In what sense?
You think Nadal doesn't mind losing to Fed, just because he did better from 2008-13?
Rafa lost his edge in 2014, and hasn't beat Fed or Djok off clay since. It wasn't a failure of Fed but rather Nadal peaking and then declining.
Fiero425
Legend
I'm from the "conspiracy generation!" At times I truly believe Nadal's running game on the tour! He literally plays when he wants; been that way for years! It's one of the many reasons Nadal can never be The GOAT IMO! Even if having 30 Majors, the rest of the resume is bereft of any other significant record; YE #1's, Wks. @#1, YEC's!
Fiero425
Legend
What was Fed waiting for? Time was running out by the time he was playing those Wimbledon finals in 2014, '15, & '19 against Novak! He won another title in 2017 over Rafa w/o Niovak in the picture! I heard Fed finally went thru a racket change w/ enlarged head! He really waited late in his 30's when it was unheard of winning majors past 32 or so! Fedalovic made it "no big thang" w/ the guys picking up more than a baker's dozen majors shared past age 32; Novak the most w/ 8!
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
What was Fed waiting for? Time was running out by the time he was playing those Wimbledon finals in 2014, '15, & '19 against Novak! He won another title in 2017 over Rafa w/o Niovak in the picture! I heard Fed finally went thru a racket change w/ enlarged head! He really waited late in his 30's when it was unheard of winning majors past 32 or so! Fedalovic made it "no big thang" w/ the guys picking up more than a baker's dozen majors shared past age 32; Novak the most w/ 8!
Waiting? He wasn't waiting for anything. During 2008-13 he completed the CGS, Channel Slam in 2009, tied and surpassed the Slam record, and continued taking it to Rafa as best he could.
Rafa slipped a little bit, and just like that Roger and Novak were in front of him.
Rafa beat Fed at AO14...and then only got one more win over him, ever, at any venue...no one really likes to talk about that fact
Fiero425
Legend
I guess my memory must be turning into mush! I could have sworn Fed went over 5 years w/o winning a major and barely made a handful of finals during that period! No matter his record against Rafa, he wasn't getting past Novak on any surface! Pls don't hark back to 2009 again or even 2013! That's a decade ago! You make it seem like we're speaking in the year 2018 or so! Add 5 more years to it and catch up! Fed went way past his "due date" and Rafa seems to be doing the same thing! If this isn't as ugly as it could get, IDK when after Rafa hasn't done squat since the 2022 FO, even dropping 2023 United Cup matches to lower ranked players!
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
Yes, Steve Kerr was the best 3-pt shooter in NBA history, he is the GOAT of NBA. Ah, wait, there are other sides of NBA…“Since”
“Off”
So, yes, if you are disadvantaged against your main rival on 3 out of 4 surfaces but superior on one of the 4, I’d say there is an issue
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
I guess my memory must be turning into mush! I could have sworn Fed went over 5 years w/o winning a major and barely made a handful of finals during that period! No matter his record against Rafa, he wasn't getting past Novak on any surface! Pls don't hark back to 2009 again or even 2013! That's a decade ago! You make it seem like we're speaking in the year 2018 or so! Add 5 more years to it and catch up! Fed went way past his "due date" and Rafa seems to be doing the same thing! If this isn't as ugly as it could get, IDK when after Rafa hasn't done squat since the 2022 FO, even dropping 2023 United Cup matches to lower ranked players!
Your memory is fine, you just changed your argument since the one about Rafa didn't hold up
Silverbullet96
Hall of Fame
Unless of course, Djokovic goes on to have an even more historic rivalry with Alcaraz.
StannisTheMannis
Hall of Fame
I can't remember the last time Novak led Rafa in the slam count, could you help me?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You better learn from your sensei, slay
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Rafa is chasing Novak now bestie!You better learn from your sensei, slay
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Lol Nadal is not chasing Novak bc he beat Tsitsipas and Casper Ruud.Rafa is chasing Novak now bestie!
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
I think he’s done chasingRafa is chasing Novak now bestie!
Hitman
Bionic Poster
The Bloodline is over....
arvind13
Professional
The "rivalry"
That ***** Novak will never admit that federer was his greatest rival and that he was lucky to be 6 years younger to him
arvind13
Professional
It’s not 50/50 in their prime. It was close to 50/50 when Novak was in his prime and federer was out of his prime. Prime to prime it would have been 60-40 or 70-30 federer.
Nadals main Rival was Fed because he ended Federers dominance in slams and dethroned him from No 1 ranking. Federer trailed Nadal in h2hs from start not against Djoker so Federer considers Nadal as main Rival.
If you look at Nadal Federer rivalry they have more Memorable 5 setters where both were in prime.
Fed lost 4 5 setters to djoker having MPs in 3 of them but all of them were outside Federers prime. Djokovic wasn't a big threat for Fed in mid 20s but Nadal was. Late in 30s roles reversed. Djoker became big threat.
Fiero425
Legend
IDK how people can note Federer had multiple match points against Djokovic, but he lost because he wasn't in his prime! Too strange to keep seeing & hearing!
Yeah lunatic ********** like you can hear and see 2007 uso Final and and 2009 USO SF. Against same player where he won tight 3 setters. The same player in his prime beat djokovic 3 times in a row at USO.IDK how people can note Federer had multiple match points against Djokovic, but he lost because he wasn't in his prime! Too strange to keep seeing & hearing!
Like djokovic was still a baby from 2008-10 where he has to wait till Federer and djokovics decline to start winning.IDK how people can note Federer had multiple match points against Djokovic, but he lost because he wasn't in his prime! Too strange to keep seeing & hearing!
Again he had a pause from 2012 AO to 2014 Wimbledon cos Of Murray,Fed and Nadals resurgence.
Phoenix*
Professional
Nice coping but its 22-10 for Djo. And 30s is still prime in todays era. Fed was not outside his prime, just not good enough.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Who the hell except self-serving Federer fans care about subjective opinions of how long a player is in his prime? If you are good enough to make it to semis and finals of Slams (often without losing a set), then you are supposed to beat the guy across the net.
Fed - It is your non-ATG BH that stopped you and not the fact that you were not in your prime. Both your rivals broke down your BH in every long match. Also if you were as strict with your diet and stretching regimen like Djokovic, maybe you could have kept beating him in your thirties. You made a life choice to keep eating pasta, chocolates, drink wine etc. Don’t have your fans make excuses now.
GOATs eat grass or anti-inflammatory food especially when they get old. Did you?
Fed - It is your non-ATG BH that stopped you and not the fact that you were not in your prime. Both your rivals broke down your BH in every long match. Also if you were as strict with your diet and stretching regimen like Djokovic, maybe you could have kept beating him in your thirties. You made a life choice to keep eating pasta, chocolates, drink wine etc. Don’t have your fans make excuses now.
GOATs eat grass or anti-inflammatory food especially when they get old. Did you?
Federev
Legend
The question has relevance when one is interested in who is actually the best tennis player at their best. Novak's current haul isn't a relevant question for me. I think were he 35-36 (what we saw of Federer in 2017 for example), Roger would be cleaning up too if he had ZERO ATGs to compete with. Very likely Rafa as well, (or if the one potential ATG great cramps up out of fear).
I'm more interested in who is the best at their best.
So when Federer dominates in his peak years (including winning over Novak at slams) in a way that Novak didn't at his peak - and then when Federer is so competitive past his peak (2009-2012) v Novak, when Novak himself should be in his peak years, and when we don't see Novak dominating Federer until 2014 and after, it begs the question of who is the better player at their best.
For me, those years of Fed's peak 2004-2007, and his competitive play w Novak after his peak, winning against him at slams in 2008, 2009, 2011, and 2012 when Novak should have really been dominating, are pretty definitive.
I don't need Federer to change his diet. Though I do wish he could have solved his BH earlier.
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Clay lover
Legend
I don't know whether on an absolute level Federer displayed a higher peak, but I definitely think Federer at his peak had a more entertaining aggressive game.
Agree with his diet. People are not monks and should be allowed to indulge in whatever they want to so long as they accept the potential consequences. Life is always a balancing act between entertainment and success and I'm not ashamed to admit I've consistently cheated over towards the entertainment side - no shame in that.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
23 > 22 bestie!
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Those 22 weigh more to me bestie lol, you're never going to convince everyone
again, I could not be less impressed by those last 3 slams, if they did it for you, great
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Maybe not you. However, deep down you know novaks the best and the general masses think so. You just struggle to admit it. It isn’t that hard to be objective and put subjective feelings aside! LolThose 22 weigh more to me bestie lol, you're never going to convince everyone
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I think all 3 are so ridiculously ahead of everyone else it's enough of a credit to him. I absolutely know how good Novak is, you'll never hear me say he isn't.... (just boring affffff). But I have too much respect for his abilities (and Nadal's) to think he's all of a sudden better than the other two based on what happened at the FO, I'm not going to sit here and pretend it was difficult, nor impressive, it didn't make him any greater than I thought he was a year ago.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
You think Nadal is a better player than Djokovic in your heart?Those 22 weigh more to me bestie lol, you're never going to convince everyone
Nadal is not very good on low-bouncing surfaces like grass/indoor courts and not as versatile as Djokovic, is he? He plays 20 feet behind the baseline and doesn‘t dictate point patterns as much as Djokovic, does he? He likes to eat paella, drink wine, play golf during tournaments (2 or 3 rounds every day during IW according to tournament volunteers), go fishing on his boat and slack off during the off-season so that he gets injured often in January at the start of the season unlike his main rival, doesn’t he?
Success in life comes from being disciplined, being prepared and being adaptable to change. Would you agree that a big reason Djokovic is the GOAT is because he is better at those things? Let’s not kid ourselves by making the usual TTW meme excuses about weak eras, age gaps etc. Djokovic did better than his rivals in terms of career accomplishments because he didn’t have an exploitable BH like Fed or a game that needed high-bouncing courts like Nadal. To come from third place by far to take the lead in just about every major record shows his caliber. Let’s be honest with each other that holistically, he was just a little bit better and more committed/professional to making improvements than his two rivals. Capiche?
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Um.... no.
Nadal literally was out there doing the same thing Novak did at Novak's current age (in more impressive fashion I might add.) Cute write-up though
arvind13
Professional
30 is prime in today’s era? Who’s coping now?
Federev
Legend
That's a forgiving way to see it. If he had done that while they were at their best and with a few ATGs below him it would very clear. But that's not at all what has happened.
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canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
Ageing slows you down. To beat players younger than you as Djokovic is doing now you need to be much better than them. They have the benefit of youth on their side. Unless the generation below is just very poor. So either Djokovic good or next gen poor.
If you accept Djokovic is good (I do), you need to also accept that the same calculation needs to be applied to the relationship between Federer and Djokovic. Djok with the benefit of youth getting thrashed at wtf 2019 says all you need to know.
Phoenix*
Professional
You. Messi just won the world cup at 35, Djo keeps winning everything at 36, Nadal - same thing. Federer swept the field at 36 when Djo was injured etc.
messiahrobins
Hall of Fame
Nadals success v Federer was based largely on his insane foot speed and defense at his peak where he could force roger tomhave to repeatedly have to hit that extra shot often on the BH side which would eventually breakdown. Their rivalry h2h is exactly how one would expect it to play out as once the nadal footspeed had declined and therefore his defence he was always going to struggle v Federer off clay. Further evidence of this was the shellacking he got off Djokovic at AO 2019. Another example of how the elite atg level player was able to dismantle him with his primary asset deckines i.e elite movement and defense. Those who think Nadals FH was his main asset really were not watching closely enough. Many players had better FHs. Federer Delpotro Gonzalez berdych and a few others had better FHS.LMAO What a stupid ignorant post. Did you wake up out of a slumber and just get all your facts from Wikipedia?
Federer/Nadal Basel 2015 was a Finals match with Nadal having beaten several strong players en route to the final against Federer.
Miami 2017 was another Nadal/Federer final with Nadal having beaten multiple strong leading up to Federer.
Prior to the Sunshine double, Nadal had made the finals in Mexico which proved his strong form and confidence.
And right after Miami, Nadal won 3 consecutive clay tournaments including Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Madrid.
Basically Nadal was beating EVERYONE except Federer in those tournaments they played on hards.
But whatever...keep reaching
Fiero425
Legend
That AO in '19 was something else! Nadal was playing well enough, but Djokovic was crushing the ball, running him from side to side like a chicken w/ his head cut off!
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