Only 6 goats but djoker close to 7
- Thread starter dgold44
- Start date
NatF
Bionic Poster
Borg was 25 when he retired...
6august
Hall of Fame
Weak era?
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Is it a coincidence that your mob always hypes up the obscure stuff?
vanioMan
Legend
I love your threads.
6august
Hall of Fame
Pardon???
PMChambers
Hall of Fame
This always looks like current game is GOAT, whether it is or not is debatable but having 3x GOATS playing essentially the same era is a bit unbalanced. In the last last 15 years 3 GOATS have played. Then there was 1 GOAT, Sampras, in a 25 year stretch covering 90-00 period. Prior to Sampras you need to go back to 68 for Laver though be played regularly to early 70's and played a short schedule into the mid 70's. So from 1970-2000 there where no GOATS. This was during the Golden Age of tennis. There seems to be a era bias, to say 3 all time greats played at the same time with 2 crossover era's and three distinct domination periods. I find it hard to have two GOATS in 1 era but 3 is pushing it, they can't all be the greatest, pick 1.
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
He made several finals though, and won many important hard court tournaments. Was a complete player. Can't say the same about someone else on your list.
N
Navdeep Srivastava
Guest
You meant Sampras or Pancho? In Sampras case 14 slam + 5 wtf are more than enough to be in tier 1 or in Pancho case, his dominance was unreal on other surface to even out his little bit shortcoming on clay.
PeterHo
Hall of Fame
"The domestic goat (Capra aegagrus hircus) is a subspecies of goat domesticated from the wild goat of southwest Asia and Eastern Europe."
So Novak is the GOAT, all the others cannot be goats by definition.
So Novak is the GOAT, all the others cannot be goats by definition.
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
Sampras. It's not that he never won Roland-Garros, it's that overall his clay resume isn't one of an all-time great. Borg didn't win the USO but made several finals and won important HC tournaments. Nole didn't win RG but made several finals and won important clay tournaments. Sampras...well. I'm not sure his clay resume is better than Rosset's or Rafter's.
Gonzalez didn't play much on clay, it was a circumstance of his era.
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
Professionalism. Gonzalez, Rosewall, Laver, Borg, Sampras, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic. They were talented, and they were professionals. They are at the top of the game. Other players were as talented, but they weren't half as dedicated. McEnroe, Becker, Agassi, Nastase, Safin, Wilander? They had other things to do.
I'm not surprised at all that 3 of the greatest players are contemporaries. They are in an era of utter dedication and they pushed themselves madly. Same with Gonzalez, Rosewall, Laver.
NatF
Bionic Poster
pc1
G.O.A.T.
He was strong on all surfaces.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Rosewall is not close to GOAT. Only one person has heavily pushed for Rosewall as the GOAT. Many put Rosewall out of the top ten. His rivals like Laver, Hoad, Gonzalez, Kramer, Trabert, Sedgman don't rank him as the best player they faced. Sedgman ranks him 13th. Gonzalez and Kramer rank Segura ahead of him and ranks Rosewall out of the first tier although to be fair he write that of Laver also. Hoad ranks a few ahead of him. Laver ranks a few ahead of Rosewall. Among them are Hoad, Gonzalez and Borg.
Only Olmedo ranks Rosewall as a possible GOAT probably because Rosewall beat up on him so much. I wonder who Olmedo thinks is the GOAT now.
Rosewall never was a strong dominating player. He's not even close.
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Well, I don't know about goats but...
if Djokovic achieves 6+ year end number 1, he surely would join the exclusive group of
Sampras (6 straight, only one in open era with official ranking system)
Laver (6 straight)
Gonzalez (7 or 8, includes 6 straight)
I'm not quite sure about :
Tilden ( 6 straight ? I'm not sure )
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Nashvegas
Guest
Connors not under consideration?
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Novak Djokovic is only the 9th greatest male tennis player of all time. He is not yet in Tier 1.
Here are the 8 greatest, who are all in Tier 1:
1. Roger Federer
2. Rod Laver
3. Pete Sampras
4. Pancho Gonzales
5. Rafael Nadal
6. Ken Rosewall
7. Bjorn Borg
8. Bill Tilden
These are the male players who are the true immortals of the game.
Here are the 8 greatest, who are all in Tier 1:
1. Roger Federer
2. Rod Laver
3. Pete Sampras
4. Pancho Gonzales
5. Rafael Nadal
6. Ken Rosewall
7. Bjorn Borg
8. Bill Tilden
These are the male players who are the true immortals of the game.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
He's arguably 7 already even without RG.
mattosgrant
Banned
This forum seems to semi ballistic at the idea he could be over Borg already. I don't know, I don't find it that unreasonable, both have 11 majors and Djokovic has a ton more time at #1 already, and neither have a Career Slam. Djokovic even has many more WTF titles too. I know the Australian Open situation then and all, but even then it hardly seems like a crazy suggestion. IMO you could certainly argue Borg being over Djokovic, but you could already argue the opposite as well.
I do respect Borg immensenly, I think his peak level on clay was even higher than Nadal's (although obviously cant rank over Nadal on clay since there is now a gulf in their achievements), and I think he could have been the overall GOAT had he played into his 30s. Ultimately though what is, trumps what if.
N
nowhereman
Guest
What about Muscles?
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
Personally I rank Borg higher than Djokovic (right now) because I consider him to be the equal of Nadal and Sampras. I can't decide which of these two I rank higher. Djokovic is not the equal of Nadal and Sampras yet. I'm pretty sure he will pass all of them.
Borg only played in a 3 slam era so he is allowed to have fewer slam than the others. He missed also many master cups in his best years. again a factor of his era. I value hugely his channel slams. I think they are a better proof of versatility then than now, and versatility is very important for the best players.
They have to be contender everywhere, and Borg was. Also the ranking system was problematic at this time, and he deserved to be n°1 for a longer time than he was.
6august
Hall of Fame
What if Djokvic loses this FO but wins Wimby and USO?
I assume that may be sarcastic
I need to start training for 2017 IW
Not easy watching tennis 8 hrs a day
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
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vanioMan
Legend
No man, seriously. I love them.
I take my tennis very seriously !!!
I have watched every match from Tilden to Pancho to laver to Borg to samp and fed
I don't get out much
5555
Hall of Fame
Is it a fact or an opinion?
Totally wrong. You didn't include the best ever, Henry the VIII, a man who didn't lose a single game for over 2 decades. Not to mention many more who had much better results than those you listed.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
That list is my opinion.
However, those eight men are almost universally considered to be in Tier 1 of tennis greatness, whatever order you rank them in.
mattosgrant
Banned
I have my doubts on Rosewall being tier 1 at all, and I certainly don't see him higher than Borg. I would have Djokovic above Rosewall at this point personally too.
I also strongly disagree with Sampras being over Gonzales. Both are similar- great fast court players, but Gonzales was overall more dominant and longer on top, even though Sampras was more dominant on grass. Gonzales was also much better on clay and slower hard courts than Pete. I might have Gonzales 2nd over Federer, but at absolute worst 3rd behind Laver and Federer.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
I think Sampras and Gonzales are very evenly matched, both supreme on fast courts and not that strong on clay. But of course you're fine to put Gonzales ahead of Sampras - that's why I said that you could rank those eight players in any order.
The only thing I strongly disagree with in what you've said is that Rosewall might not be Tier 1. His incredible longevity and number of top titles means he has to be.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
FFY Phoenix. If Djokovic is great enough to be referred to by using his full name then so are other all time greats that came before him.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Three channel Slams. In a row.
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
Looking at your list, it's occurring to me that you could have a really odd circumstance where a player (e.g., Djokovic) achieves statistical supremacy over another (e.g., Nadal) in most significant categories, yet remains several all-time ranking spots below him. In my mind, they are very nearly equals at this point. I think this list may be based strictly on major title haul?
