Peak Federer Vs. Peak Djokovic
- Thread starter JohanLiebert
- Start date
Tennisanity
Legend
Is this some kind of proposal?
No, just some guidance.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well taking each big event into consideration, playing 5 matches at each event:
AO: Djokovic 4-1
IW: Djokovic 4-1
Miami: Djokovic 5-0
MC: Federer 3-2
Rome: Djokovic 4-1
Madrid/Hamburg: Federer 3-2
RG: Djokovic 3-2
Wimb: Federer 4-1
Canada: Djokovic 3-2
Cincy: Federer 5-0
USO: Federer 3-2
Madrid/Shanghai: Federer 4-1
Paris: Djokovic 3-2
WTF played in Shanghai: Federer 4-1
WTF played in London: Djokovic 3-2
AO: Djokovic 4-1
IW: Djokovic 4-1
Miami: Djokovic 5-0
MC: Federer 3-2
Rome: Djokovic 4-1
Madrid/Hamburg: Federer 3-2
RG: Djokovic 3-2
Wimb: Federer 4-1
Canada: Djokovic 3-2
Cincy: Federer 5-0
USO: Federer 3-2
Madrid/Shanghai: Federer 4-1
Paris: Djokovic 3-2
WTF played in Shanghai: Federer 4-1
WTF played in London: Djokovic 3-2
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Peak Fed beats peak Novak everywhere comprehensively except clay where it is close
abmk
Bionic Poster
peak to peak, IMO..
AO ( rebound ) : 6-4 federer
AO ( plexi) : 6-4 djokovic
IW : 6-4 federer
Miami : 7-3 or 8-2 djokovic
MC : 6-4 federer
Rome : 7-3 djokovic
Hamburg/Madrid : 7-3 federer
RG : 6-4 federer
wimbledon : 9-1 federer
canada : 6-4 djokovic
cincy : 9-1 federer
USO : 7-3 federer
shanghai : 6-4 or 7-3 federer
paris : 7-3 djokovic
YEC ( shanghai) : 8-2 federer
YEC (london) : 6-4 federer
AO ( rebound ) : 6-4 federer
AO ( plexi) : 6-4 djokovic
IW : 6-4 federer
Miami : 7-3 or 8-2 djokovic
MC : 6-4 federer
Rome : 7-3 djokovic
Hamburg/Madrid : 7-3 federer
RG : 6-4 federer
wimbledon : 9-1 federer
canada : 6-4 djokovic
cincy : 9-1 federer
USO : 7-3 federer
shanghai : 6-4 or 7-3 federer
paris : 7-3 djokovic
YEC ( shanghai) : 8-2 federer
YEC (london) : 6-4 federer
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
Now that I think about it, it also depends on the speed of the WTF London surface. 2010-2011 I could see Fed winning since the WTF was faster then than afterwards. 2014-2015 slow as molasses, Djokovic wins.
abmk
Bionic Poster
2010/11 speed , federer has the edge easily IMO
2014-15 speed , I'd still back federer , but it'd be pretty close. fed did beat him in the YEC RR in 15. even if it is slow as molasses, the bounce is low and the slice works fine there, unlike say Miami ..
To be fair if you're questioning that, surely you should also question his 55:45 USO results when Fed is 3-3 there but has 3 extra titles and had double MP in two of those
90/10, 80/20 is a bit over the top imo. For any given clay tournament I'd say it's 50/50 or 60/40 in favour of the other (like Rome for Nole, Madrid/Hamburg for Fed) or maybe 70/30.
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AO RA: 6-4 Federer
AO plexi: 6-4 Nole
IW: 5-5
Miami: 8-2 Nole
Monte Carlo: 6-4 Federer
Hamburg/Madrid: 7-3 Federer
Rome: 7-3 Nole
RG: 5-5 tie
Halle: 10-0 Federer
Wimbledon: 10-0 Federer
Canada: 7-3 Nole
Cincinatti: 10-0 Federer
USO: 9-1 Federer
Shanghai/Madrid: 5-5 tie
Basel: 7-3 Federer
Paris: 7-3 Djokovic (the slow version)
YEC Shanghai: 7-3 Federer
WTF London: 6-4 Djokovic (6-4 Fed on the 10-11 editions)
AO plexi: 6-4 Nole
IW: 5-5
Miami: 8-2 Nole
Monte Carlo: 6-4 Federer
Hamburg/Madrid: 7-3 Federer
Rome: 7-3 Nole
RG: 5-5 tie
Halle: 10-0 Federer
Wimbledon: 10-0 Federer
Canada: 7-3 Nole
Cincinatti: 10-0 Federer
USO: 9-1 Federer
Shanghai/Madrid: 5-5 tie
Basel: 7-3 Federer
Paris: 7-3 Djokovic (the slow version)
YEC Shanghai: 7-3 Federer
WTF London: 6-4 Djokovic (6-4 Fed on the 10-11 editions)
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed put on a dismal display in the final though, the match that mattered.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
I just focused on the one that made Nole look better!
Tennisanity
Legend
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
All other things equal you think attaching>defending? Not talking about fun to watch.
Incognito
Legend
Without Nadal, djokovic would have made the finals at RG in 2006 (cowardly claimed he sick lol), 2007 and 2008. I would loved to see Fed slaugter him on clay those years
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Guys, make sure you don't talk too much about Djokovic and Federer on clay and how they stand in the all time list, mods might think you are NadalAgassi/craigster/slatersleuth and ban you.
6august
Hall of Fame
Fiero425
Legend
Aesthetically no ones better than Federer, but I think Nole's run was more impressive; defeating his major rival 7 times in a row twice, record # of victories over top 10'rs, and wasn't owned by ANYONE! He was on par throughout with Fedal! Federer can't say the same; with a pigeon at the ready when he needed a title in Andy Roddick! Those were gift majors in 2009 with Soderling taking out Nadal at the FO and Roger accepting Roddick's choke job at Wimbledon with a huge lead! Nole hasn't had gifts like that with comparable opponents along the way to each final just about every time of significant titles won!
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
c'mon man...
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
Putting Fed aside, do you think that there was a version of Rafa that played at the same level as 2015 (or '11 if you prefer) Djokovic?
abmk
Bionic Poster
that's easy - clay season 2008-clay season 09 ....won a slam on clay, grass, slow HC, won Masters on slow HC(Indian Wells), fast HC(Canada), obviously on clay and won Olympics on fast HC.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Like Djokovic didn't have it easy with broken back Murray and old man Roger.Aesthetically no ones better than Federer, but I think Nole's run was more impressive; defeating his major rival 7 times in a row twice, record # of victories over top 10'rs, and wasn't owned by ANYONE! He was on par throughout with Fedal! Federer can't say the same; with a pigeon at the ready when he needed a title in Andy Roddick! Those were gift majors in 2009 with Soderling taking out Nadal at the FO and Roger accepting Roddick's choke job at Wimbledon with a huge lead! Nole hasn't had gifts like that with comparable opponents along the way to each final just about every time of significant titles won!
Fiero425
Legend
For a so called ATG, only Agassi has had a more fractured career than Nadal with some success to make a name for himself! Both underachieved for different reasons; Nadal too single-minded a player (clay) and Agassi a tortured soul! I never cared for either from the beginning; Nadal's gamesmanship and Agassi's PR campaign years before he won anything! Nadal's '08, '10, & '13 just don't measure up IMO! I just can't ever imagine another player coming close to 3 majors, playing 8 Masters' finals (winning 6), dominating the tour winning over 30 matches against top 10 players! The $20+ M in a season will be busted before I pass on; the money's so out of control!
The two have played each other that often that this topic is Actually boring. Federer has been vulnerable to Djokovic at every stage of Djokovic's career and vice versa.
I've said in the past that the ultimate dream match up would be peak Sampras versus peak Nadal, the ultimate aggressor versus the ultimate defender. Why you fanboys wasting bandwidth on a match up that has already been played out? Djok has beaten Federer and lost to him in Fed's peak and in his off peak and Federer has beaten Djok and lost to Djok in his peak and in his off peak, and they've done it on all surfaces. The permutations of this rivalry have already been played out yet you wanna theorise about it...LOL.
Talk peak Sampras v peak Nadal, that's what the masses want, not something that's been there and done that.
I've said in the past that the ultimate dream match up would be peak Sampras versus peak Nadal, the ultimate aggressor versus the ultimate defender. Why you fanboys wasting bandwidth on a match up that has already been played out? Djok has beaten Federer and lost to him in Fed's peak and in his off peak and Federer has beaten Djok and lost to Djok in his peak and in his off peak, and they've done it on all surfaces. The permutations of this rivalry have already been played out yet you wanna theorise about it...LOL.
Talk peak Sampras v peak Nadal, that's what the masses want, not something that's been there and done that.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yeah overall, at least generally. I do think Federer has the more complete game as well. Both guys can attack and defend so I will favour the more attacking biased player in principle. Djokovic from Doha/AO SF last year did put on an attacking master class - so I don't want to sell him too short.
His run from the clay season 08 to the same point in 09. His best passage of play imo.
Mazz Retic
Hall of Fame
Thinking about their matches I agree there isn't many peak ones where each player is at their absolute best. Novak's 2007 and early 2008 season is pretty interesting to look at as by this stage Federer is slowing exiting his peak but is still extremely good.
On grass overall Federer at his best (2004/5/6) is hard to beat. There may be a case that Novak's 2011 performance at Wimbledon would come close but even still I doubt it.
At the AO, both have played incredibly well but I would take Djokovic's peak performance there any day. He is not only ruthless but has amazing mental strength.
The USO and RG are hard to decide. While instinctively I would say Federer for the former, Djokovic has shown a very high level there but just underperformed in finals.
On grass overall Federer at his best (2004/5/6) is hard to beat. There may be a case that Novak's 2011 performance at Wimbledon would come close but even still I doubt it.
At the AO, both have played incredibly well but I would take Djokovic's peak performance there any day. He is not only ruthless but has amazing mental strength.
The USO and RG are hard to decide. While instinctively I would say Federer for the former, Djokovic has shown a very high level there but just underperformed in finals.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
So do you agree? Because i can't exactly tell whether this picture sends a message like "such objectivity, much wow" or "I am shocked at how much of a **** this guy is"
6august
Hall of Fame
So do you agree? Because i can't exactly tell whether this picture sends a message like "such objectivity, much wow" or "I am shocked at how much of a **** this guy is"
I may disagree with some points but it can't prevent me from expressing my great respect to your objectivity.
Yes it's a big Wow
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Which points do you disagree with?I may disagree with some points but it can't prevent me from expressing my great respect to your objectivity.
Yes it's a big Wow
6august
Hall of Fame
Maybe that's Miami 5-0 for Nole and Cinci 5-0 for Fed. I mean if they take it serious enough, bring everything they have into that match like it's the match of their life then I think Fed can walk away with at least 1 win at Miami and ditto to Djo at Cinci.
But what matters here is you're brave enough to give Fed a Zero chance at Miami. You're a true tennis fan. You make tennis better
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well I noticed that Fed doesn't really like the Miami conditions, while Djokovic loves them.Maybe that's Miami 5-0 for Nole and Cinci 5-0 for Fed. I mean if they take it serious enough, bring everything they have into that match like it's the match of their life then I think Fed can walk away with at least 1 win at Miami and ditto to Djo at Cinci.
But what matters here is you're brave enough to give Fed a Zero chance at Miami. You're a true tennis fan. You make tennis better
Also we have seen a significant amount of Djokovic-Federer Cincy matches to deduce that Fed is that much better there against any version of Djoko.
Aesthetically no ones better than Federer, but I think Nole's run was more impressive; defeating his major rival 7 times in a row twice, record # of victories over top 10'rs, and wasn't owned by ANYONE! He was on par throughout with Fedal! Federer can't say the same; with a pigeon at the ready when he needed a title in Andy Roddick! Those were gift majors in 2009 with Soderling taking out Nadal at the FO and Roger accepting Roddick's choke job at Wimbledon with a huge lead! Nole hasn't had gifts like that with comparable opponents along the way to each final just about every time of significant titles won!
Difference there is, Nole actually lost 2 GS finals to his pigeon Murray. Fed completely owned his pigeons (Roddick, Hewitt) at grand slams.
Then Nole was quite lucky at both USO 2015 and RG 2016. In the former grampa Fed took out Nole's daddy Wawrinka and the latter Murray did (setting up a nice pigeon in the final for that RG title gift in 2016).
Fiero425
Legend
So we're calling Murray a pigeon now? Seems a bit of an imbalance; Roddick 1 USO and #1 ranking for a minute compared to Murray's 3 majors, beat Djokovic each time, owns 2 OGM's, holding #1 ranking at the moment, and has a DC! [hand wavers back and forth] - Heaven knows I'm no fan of Murray, but even I have to acknowledge he's a lot better than Roddick! As for Nole beating Roger; if he's being called Grandpa Fed now, he beat his son at IW to win tourney! He's leading the RACE with an AO at the moment! I don't mind hyperbole, but it still has to be in the realm of reality when making an argument; THANK YOU!
So we're calling Murray a pigeon now? Seems a bit of an imbalance; Roddick 1 USO and #1 ranking for a minute compared to Murray's 3 majors, beat Djokovic each time, owns 2 OGM's, holding #1 ranking at the moment, and has a DC! [hand wavers back and forth] - Heaven knows I'm no fan of Murray, but even I have to acknowledge he's a lot better than Roddick! As for Nole beating Roger; if he's being called Grandpa Fed now, he beat his son at IW to win tourney! He's leading the RACE with an AO at the moment! I don't mind hyperbole, but it still has to be in the realm of reality when making an argument; THANK YOU!
Yes Murray is definitely both Nole and Fed's pigeon at grand slams. He's basically the Roddick/Hewitt of today's era except he's lasted longer.
Yes Fed is still a grampa but he's now playing his best baseline tennis since 2012.
Wow, this is a tough one!
Federer has a decent advantage on grass while Djokovic has a slight one on clay.
Hard courts? Wow, that's tough!
Oversimplifying things for conciseness, I reckon when a quality server meets a quality returner, the server has the edge. Advantage Federer?
On the other hand, Djokovic is/was mentally tougher and better under pressure. Advantage Djokovic?
I'll let the deciding factor be that overall, the eras hard courts have more for the returner/defender than the server/attacker. Advantage Djokovic, razor thin margin.
I voted 'hard to decide', btw
Federer has a decent advantage on grass while Djokovic has a slight one on clay.
Hard courts? Wow, that's tough!
Oversimplifying things for conciseness, I reckon when a quality server meets a quality returner, the server has the edge. Advantage Federer?
On the other hand, Djokovic is/was mentally tougher and better under pressure. Advantage Djokovic?
I'll let the deciding factor be that overall, the eras hard courts have more for the returner/defender than the server/attacker. Advantage Djokovic, razor thin margin.
I voted 'hard to decide', btw
Federev
Legend
It’s held up well!
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