Peak Safin is better than peak Djokodal on hc slam?

[Adriano Panatta]

Safin on hc had an incredible peak (Safin Us Open 2000 9,5/10,Safin AO 2005 9,5/10)
Nole is the boat on AO but meh in UO (10/10 AO 2011,9/10 UO 2011)
Nadal is very good in UO but i think is a bit overatted in AO (2005 Fed>2009) (9,5/10 in UO 2010,9/10 AO 2009)
Fed AO 2007 for me is 9,5/10 and 10/10 in UO 2006 (the boat on medium fast hc)

 

[NatF]

Big if true.

 

[RF-18]

It's criminal to include Djokovic in Nadal and Safins name in this sort of discussion. I don't know what's going on in this place.

 

[InsideOut900]

Not better, but around the same level. AO 05 is at the level of AO 11 from Djoker and above Nadal's AO 09.

USO 00 is only up there because of the final, so in a 1 match shootout I guess he is a bit better than 11 Djoker or 10 Nadal, but not over 7 rounds for sure.

 

[RS]

In a single match it might be close but over multiple or a extended series it's obviously Nadalovic for me.

 

[RS]

It's criminal to include Djokovic in Nadal and Safins name in this sort of discussion. I don't know what's going on in this place.

What does it tell us?

 

[weakera]

Nadal has the highest level of the three at both AO and USO

 

[RF-18]

What does it tell us?

That probably Medvedev belongs in this convo as well. Why not add Medvedev here then if we are going off a one or couple of performances. Medvedev in USO 21 had if I'm not wronh one of the highest percentages in terms of games won in open era and absolutely destroyed his opponents.

 

[weakera]

That probably Medvedev belongs in this convo as well. Why not add Medvedev here then if we are going off a one or couple of performances. Medvedev in USO 21 had if I'm not wronh one of the highest percentages in terms of games won in open era.

Medvedev's peak level is pretty high, fair point.

 

[RS]

That probably Medvedev belongs in this convo as well. Why not add Medvedev here then if we are going off a one or couple of performances. Medvedev in USO 21 had if I'm not wronh one of the highest percentages in terms of games won in open era and absolutely destroyed his opponents.

Are people going to any lengths to make Djokovic look bad?

 

[RF-18]

Nadal has the highest level of the three at both AO and USO

Ahahahahahahah. Good one m8.

 

[weakera]

Ahahahahahahah

It's almost not even up for debate.

 

[RF-18]

It's almost not even up for debate.

09 and 10 not anywhere enough. Listen, I'm not gonna debate this even. It becomes too disrespectful to Djokovic.

 

[weakera]

09 and 10 not anywhere enough. Listen, I'm not gonna debate this even. It becomes too disrespectful to Djokovic.

You're right in the sense that there isn't much debate to be had. Djokovic was a latecomer who owned the vulture era, he didn't do it during the big time.

 

[RS]

Good thread OP

 

[MichaelNadal]

09 and 10 not anywhere enough. Listen, I'm not gonna debate this even. It becomes too disrespectful to Djokovic.

lol

 

[Adriano Panatta]

Nadal has the highest level of the three at both AO and USO

I think Nadal have the second highest peak after Fed in all four slam (but with ATP Finals Nole is better).
Rafa FO 2008 11/10 Rafa W 2008 9,5/10 ATP Finals 2010 8/10
Nole FO 2013 9/10 Nole W 2015 9,5/10 ATP Finals 2013 9,5/10
Fed FO 2007 9/10 Fed W 2005 10/10 Fed Atp Finals 2006 10/10

 

[Dominic & Andrey]

PETE

 

[Adriano Panatta]

PETE

UO yes AO no

 

[NeutralFan]

Peak Nadal will expose Safin's movement like nobody else did. Nadal is a nightmare match up for players with not so good movement.

 

[thrust]

Are people going to any lengths to make Djokovic look bad?

It seems so, which is pathetic but that is what fanatical fans do.

 

[Razer]

Djoker 2011 > Federer 2007 > Safin 05 = Nadal 09

 

[RS]

Peak Nadal will expose Safin's movement like nobody else did. Nadal is a nightmare match up for players with not so good movement.

Nadal would exploit a lot of players in that period far easier than people think and leave TTW upest.

 

[NeutralFan]

Nadal would exploit a lot of players in that period easier than people think and leave TTW upest.

You just have to look at Nadal's h2h against such players. even baby Nadal bullied old Andre( who was having relatively great success in his last days)

 

[Adriano Panatta]

Djoker 2011 > Federer 2007 > Safin 05 = Nadal 09

AO ok but Us Open?

 

[NeutralFan]

Djoker 2011 > Federer 2007 > Safin 05 = Nadal 09

Fed 2007 didn't face Djokodal at AO so i have my doubt about his peak( especially when he has struggled badly against them at AO)

 

[Adriano Panatta]

Peak Nadal will expose Safin's movement like nobody else did. Nadal is a nightmare match up for players with not so good movement.

In AO probably yes but in Us Open of first 2000 i don‘ t know…the surface is fast and low bounce

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Not better, but around the same level. AO 05 is at the level of AO 11 from Djoker and above Nadal's AO 09.

Agreed.

USO 00 is only up there because of the final, so in a 1 match shootout I guess he is a bit better than 11 Djoker or 10 Nadal, but not over 7 rounds for sure.

Not just the final. He completely demolished Ferrero before.

 

[NatF]

Nadal has the highest level of the three at both AO and USO

Peak trolling well done.

 

[NeutralFan]

In AO probably yes but in Us Open of first 2000 i don‘ t know…the surface is fast and low bounce

Ummm Fed was beaten by teen Nadal at Dubai and that was faster than USO. Peak Nadal would have been a tough match up for Fed everywhere , even at you Wimbledon ( his worse slam)

 

[Adriano Panatta]

Ummm Fed was beaten by teen Nadal at Dubai and that was faster than USO. Peak Nadal would have been a tough match up for Fed everywhere , even at you Wimbledon ( his worse slam)

For Fed is a tough match but Safin had a great two handed backhand…Nadal 2010 US Open had a great serve so is a match 50% 50% but i prefer Safin final 2000 vs other version of Rafa on fast hc

 

[Razer]

Fed 2007 didn't face Djokodal at AO so i have my doubt about his peak( especially when he has struggled badly against them at AO)

Federer was better than Nadal, he proved it in 2017 that he always had it in him to triumph. Peak Federer will beat Peak Nadal at the AO if they are all on the big racquet since the early years.

AO ok but Us Open?

At US Open Federer > Djokovic = Nadal even peakwise .... I donno where to place Safin 2000....maybe he would clash well with Djokodal...

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Fed 2007 didn't face Djokodal at AO so i have my doubt about his peak( especially when he has struggled badly against them at AO)

Federer did face Djokovic at AO 2007, albeit a younger version obviously that hadn't reached the top 10 yet.

Anyway, you don't need to face a certain specific player to judge a level. Everyone who played tennis before 2000 didn't face Djokodal either.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Djoker 2011 > Federer 2007 > Safin 05 = Nadal 09

Safin 2005 is at least as good as Federer 2007, Federer had destroyed Agassi in 2005 before meeting him in a similar way as he did Roddick in 2007 almost. If not for Safin he would have won the event convincingly like he did in 2007 in 2005.

He is also on the same level as Djokovic 2011.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

It's a fair stretch IMHO. I would only consider AO 2005 but that's it.

 

[jl809]

Perhaps the actual difference between AO 05 Fed and AO 07 Fed is that one had to face a quality opponent and the other didn’t so the other looked like a god.

Likewise USO 10 Nadal vs USO 11 Nadal (except for the serve tbh which is kinda undeniable) or AO 11 Djokovic vs AO 12 or AO 13 Djokovic

(I don’t actually believe any of this, I’m just saying stuff)

 

[Pheasant]

Safin played like a maniac in the 2005 AO semi. 137 bomb serves, returned like a maniac. However, I’m still pissed to this day that Fed choked that 4th set tiebreaker away. Fed had him, but let him get away.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Posters are always looking for that hypothetical, about who was the greatest at their peakiest. Safin, in winning his two slam titles, was crazy good. Yes, he had other achievements in his career, but for whatever reasons, couldn't maintain or sustain that level. Somehow, I'll take the guy with 10 titles to 1 at the AO, and 4 to 1 at the USO. Who would win if they met at their presumed peakiest? Don't know, don't really care.

By analogy, growing up in the Phildelphia area, I root for their pro sports teams, including the 76ers (Sixers) in the NBA.

Not counting a championship in the 1950s (can't tell you much about it), the 76ers won two other championships in their long history, in 1967 and 1983. To that point, and for many years to come, that 1967 team was considered by many to be the greatest single-season team ever, and the '83 team, also dominant, ranks very high as well.

But when I look at aggregate titles, the Lakers and the Celtics both have won 17 titles to 3 for my Sixers. I don't regret rooting for the 76ers (a lot of great players, teams, wins, etc) but those other franchises have been much more successful despite those two quite peaky seasons.

 

[Pheasant]

I do love really small sample sizes to prove a point.

Donskoy is likely the hard court goat. Well, he’s in the top 3 and ahead of Federer. Donskoy toyed with Fed at his best tourney by spotting him a 5-1 lead in the tiebreaker, only to come back and scorch Fed. And that was peak Fed, who was 19-1 during that 2017 winter hard court season, which included going 7-0 vs the top-10 and 3-0 vs Nadal.

The only other candidates that can compete with Donskoy are Djokovic and especially Istomin.

 

[NeutralFan]

Federer did face Djokovic at AO 2007, albeit a younger version obviously that hadn't reached the top 10 yet.

Anyway, you don't need to face a certain specific player to judge a level. Everyone who played tennis before 2000 didn't face Djokodal either.

Meh!! we do need tough players to ascertain it.

 

[NeutralFan]

Federer was better than Nadal, he proved it in 2017 that he always had it in him to triumph. Peak Federer will beat Peak Nadal at the AO if they are all on the big racquet since the early years.



At US Open Federer > Djokovic = Nadal even peakwise .... I donno where to place Safin 2000....maybe he would clash well with Djokodal...

2017 Nadal wasn't peak Nadal , Nadal's movement was regressed very much. I like this new narrative but before 2017 even Fed fan gave up on any slam meeting between them. Peak Fed is not beating peak Nadal even at USO let alone AO where Nadal will run him down. Fed had only one win HC win against Nadal till 2009 for a reason and that too was dubious. you can bring Hypotheticals but data says otherwise. Even at Wimbledon it won't be that easy due to match up.

 

[NeutralFan]

For Fed is a tough match but Safin had a great two handed backhand…Nadal 2010 US Open had a great serve so is a match 50% 50% but i prefer Safin final 2000 vs other version of Rafa on fast hc

Safin had an average movement by modern standard that Nadal will exploit.

 

[RS]

Could El Aynaoui AO 03 beat them?

 

[Third Serve]

It's almost not even up for debate.

lol good bait

 

[Third Serve]

Who would win if they met at their presumed peakiest? Don't know, don't really care.

Sir, that’s the point of this entire thread.

 

[Adriano Panatta]

Could El Aynaoui AO 03 beat them?

He could win vs Safin final AO 2002

 

[RS]

He could win vs Safin final AO 2002

I mean like would he beat any good versions of them or even better prime versions. AO 2002 Safin is considered average on here.

 

[EdMcMush]

is this a psyop by making safin/hewitt/old aggasi better than we remembered

 

[Turning Pro]

Nadal has the highest level of the three at both AO and USO

I will say.

Nadal's peak on HC in slams is Higher than Djokovic is on Clay.

That isn't even up for debate.

 

[Adriano Panatta]

I mean like would he beat any good versions of them or even better prime versions. AO 2002 Safin is considered average on here.

Nah vs good version of Djokodal win 1 set maybe…AO isn’ t the best slam of Roddick