Peak Safin is better than peak Djokodal on hc slam?

Razer

Legend
2017 Nadal wasn't peak Nadal , Nadal's movement was regressed very much. I like this new narrative but before 2017 even Fed fan gave up on any slam meeting between them. Peak Fed is not beating peak Nadal even at USO let alone AO where Nadal will run him down. Fed had only one win HC win against Nadal till 2009 for a reason and that too was dubious. you can bring Hypotheticals but data says otherwise. Even at Wimbledon it won't be that easy due to match up.

Federer and Nadal are not equal peers to be compared like that. There is a 5 years difference between them, while there has always been some edge for Nadal in the matchup due to Federer never being able to escape Nadal's grasp as he bloomed early and kept on exploiting the chinks, if you put them aged same then Federer will be in a much better position to exploit Nadal's decline and Nadal himself could find Roger to be very hard to tackle due to that. If Nadal doesn't have his peak footspeed in 2017 then Federer's forehand also declined bigtime at the beginning of the 2010s, Federer is always older than Nadal, so if Nadal becomes a grandpa in Tennis then Federer can only be a great grandpa in tennis. We need to stop looking at Nadal being at a disadvantage in 2017, it is a very big deal that Federer reversed the mindblock at such a late stage. That kind of things never happens man, when an older champ becomes a lapdog of a younger ATG then coming out of it becomes harder and harder and harder ever year as you age. The AO 2017 proved it, Nadal is the third wheel outside Clay. All his peak stunts are great in their own right but he should not have gone down to Fed in later years the year he did. If Federer was same age as Nadal then he would have been forced much earlier in the early 2000s itself to do something about his backhand than do nothing about it and wait many years playing submissive to Nadal.... That complacency he would not have had and it would have benefitted him
 
I will say.

Nadal's peak on HC in slams is Higher than Djokovic is on Clay.

That isn't even up for debate.
Nadal on hc has better peak the Djokovic on clay.A good question is who is the best on grass (i think Nole 2015 win in 5 vs Rafa 2008 but Rafa is a worse matchup for Roger than Nole)
 

Razer

Legend
@NeutralFan - The whole premise of your argument is that Nadal at his best is a better Hard Courter than Federer at his best.

I'm afraid that is just not true.
 
@NeutralFan - The whole premise of your argument is that Nadal at his best is a better Hard Courter than Federer at his best.

I'm afraid that is just not true.
Federer is better but Rafa AO 2009 and UO 2010 is a terrible matchup for him(2007 Wimbledon is the best evidence).Fed 2007 AO and 2006 UO win in 5 set but is only my opinion, Rafa has a short peak but very hight out of clay.
 

Razer

Legend
Federer is better but Rafa AO 2009 and UO 2010 is a terrible matchup for him(2007 Wimbledon is the best evidence).Fed 2007 AO and 2006 UO win in 5 set but is only my opinion, Rafa has a short peak but very hight out of clay.

Cream always rises to the top, you cannot be better and also not have a higher peak.

I know TTW believes such weird things about 1 match peaks and mythical peaks but I am of the opinion that title counts never lie. Federer has not reached all those finals and semi finals without having a higher peak.... if Nadal was aged same as Federer then Federer would be forced to make a raquet change earlier and he would beat all those 2009 Rafas and 2010s Rafas etc etc..... Djokovic at the AO would be impossible for Fed to triump over as was Agassi for Pete, but other than that the cream always does rise to the top...... Rafa's mythical peaks are all overrated..... bigtime.
 

Razer

Legend
If Nadal had such a high peak then he would not have had to depend on some loser politician to ban Nole to get a 2nd AO so late at age 36..... ?
 
Cream always rises to the top, you cannot be better and also not have a higher peak.

I know TTW believes such weird things about 1 match peaks and mythical peaks but I am of the opinion that title counts never lie. Federer has not reached all those finals and semi finals without having a higher peak.... if Nadal was aged same as Federer then Federer would be forced to make a raquet change earlier and he would beat all those 2009 Rafas and 2010s Rafas etc etc..... Djokovic at the AO would be impossible for Fed to triump over as was Agassi for Pete, but other than that the cream always does rise to the top...... Rafa's mythical peaks are all overrated..... bigtime.
Nadal in UO 2010 is a monster and serve very well(Djokovic played a better match than 2013 final),i don’ t know beacuse after this tornarmene his serve is worse.A0 2009 yes is a bit overrated Federer with a better mentality could win in 4 set maybe and Verdasco isn’t peak Djokovic
 
If Nadal had such a high peak then he would not have had to depend on some loser politician to ban Nole to get a 2nd AO so late at age 36..... ?
High peak(near peak Fed and peak Nole) but his level post prime isn’ t very good…post prime Federer and post prime Federer is better and isn’ t near.
 

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
Djokovic at the AO would be impossible for Fed to triump over as was Agassi for Pete, but other than that the cream always does rise to the top......

Djokovic would win more, but it wouldn't be impossible for certain Federer's versions such as 2005 or 2007 to get a win.

Rafa's mythical peaks are all overrated..... bigtime.

His clay peak is the highest anyone has ever had on any surface. 2008, 2010 and 2012 are untouchable.
 

Pheasant

Legend
I think that even I could have taken out Safin in the 2002 AO final, based on how hungover he was. And I stink at tennis, even for a middle-aged dude with no real tennis chops.
 

Pheasant

Legend
All that Safin had to do was be sober for that weekend and he would have been on 3 Slams today, but he was too carefree.
Very true. I can see him talking to his buddy like this, especially considering the fact that the final was played on Marat's 22nd birthday!

Safin's buddy: Hey Marat. It's your birthday tomorrow. But tomorrow is Sunday. I want to take you out to have a truckload of alcoholic drinks to celebrate. Also, there will be a lot of female companions out there, birthday boy.

Marat: But I have a grand slam final tomorrow

Safin's buddy: Dude, you already shredded Sampras in a hard court slam final. This is Johansson you are playing, not Sampras. You could beat that guy with a badminton racket. Also, are you deaf? I said there will be lots of lady companions out there, birthday boy.

Safin: Pick me up at 7pm.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
Very true. I can see him talking to his buddy like this, especially considering the fact that the final was played on Marat's 22nd birthday!

Safin's buddy: Hey Marat. It's your birthday tomorrow. But tomorrow is Sunday. I want to take you out to have a truckload of alcoholic drinks to celebrate. Also, there will be a lot of female companions out there, birthday boy.

Marat: But I have a grand slam final tomorrow

Safin's buddy: Dude, you already shredded Sampras in a hard court slam final. This is Johansson you are playing, not Sampras. You could beat that guy with a badminton racket. Also, are you deaf? I said there will be lots of lady companions out there, birthday boy.

Safin: Pick me up at 7pm.
Can confirm. I am the buddy.
 

Devin

Semi-Pro
The only place where there's a case for Safin is USO 2000 final. That was a great performance and above anything Djokovic and Nadal showed at USO later stages.

Over the scope of an entire tournament, Djokodal has a higher level though.

2005 Safin had a higher level than 2009 Nadal at AO IMO. Djokovic has reached higher levels though.
 
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