Pls RANK which of these strings are best as cross for Nat. Gut mains?

[alexbc997]

Hi all,

I am changing rackets and strings, definitely going Nat. Gut for main, but not sure about Poly cross. Due to shipping delays, I ordered a string that didn't arrive, then ordered another, changed my mind, ordered another pair so now have to pick 2 or 3 to keep, return the rest.

I am going to string 2 new rackets, and will eventually change my old racket strings as well. So, do need a cpl of these to keep, and then after a few weeks of trial, can change, or stick to one or another. What I am looking for is a bit more spin than Nat. Gut, yet soft enough not to hurt arm (albeit its in cross), and to last long enough not to negate longevity of Nat. gut.

PLEASE HELP me decide! You can pick 2 from the list.

Old Racket: nCode 6.1 95 with Technifibre X-1 strings
NEW Racket: 2x Pro Staff 6.1 100 v13
Mains: Wilson Nat. Gut 16 gauge
Style: Old school, continental grip, one handed backhand, more flat hitting than spin
Level: 4.0 in College, now in my 40s after years of not playing, now around 3.0-3.5
Injuries: Old shoulder injury but mostly OK now, no arm issues

Poly options:

• Luxlion Alu Power Rough 1.25
• Luxilon Alu Power Soft 1.25
• Luxilon Element 1.25
• Yonex Poly Tour Pro 1.25
• Yonex Poly Tour Fire 1.20
• Yonex Poly Tour Fire 1.25
• OEHMS Alu Pearl Rough 1.25

PS. I know some other strings are recommended like IsoSpeed Cream, but I didn't have that as an option.

 

[Fighting phoenix]

I would stay away from Alu power due to bad tension maintenance, especially with such precious strings in the mains. Element, or fire, are better options

 

[Automatix]

I've used natural gut like 2-3 times in my entire life but the consensus on the boards when going for durability is:
- use smooth round strings, so all "Roughs" are out;
- use a gauge as similar as possible to reduce "sawing" - so 1.20 is out.

Additionally there's also tension maintenance of each string to take into account.

P.S. When reading @Fighting phoenix post it also occured to me that some strings have a reputation of "loosing" their playability faster than others e.g. Alu Power.

So that would cross out Alu Power...

 

[Fighting phoenix]

I've used natural gut like 2-3 times in my entire life but the consensus on the boards when going for durability is:
- use smooth round strings, so all "Roughs" are out;
- use a gauge as similar as possible to reduce "sawing" - so 1.20 is out.

Additionally there's also tension maintenance of each string to take into account.

I’ve found rough strings to be a great cross - they’re not shaped, they’re round strings with holes punched in them, so they still work well as a cross

 

[Automatix]

I’ve found rough strings to be a great cross - they’re not shaped, they’re round strings with holes punched in them, so they still work well as a cross

Visual aid...

Title:	Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough
Category:	Surface
Creator:	Jens
Published:	2005-04-14
Description:	Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough surface view.
Source:	Stringforum.net

 

[alexbc997]

I've used natural gut like 2-3 times in my entire life but the consensus on the boards when going for durability is:
- use smooth round strings, so all "Roughs" are out;
- use a gauge as similar as possible to reduce "sawing" - so 1.20 is out.

Additionally there's also tension maintenance of each string to take into account.

P.S. When reading @Fighting phoenix post it also occured to me that some strings have a reputation of "loosing" their playability faster than others e.g. Alu Power.

So that would cross out Alu Power...

Thanks. One major reason I went for Alu rough, is that it’s Federer’s choice. Which may mean not much as they change strings every few games but for sure the combo should work for playability and combination of strings. It also not as stiff as regular Alu power and a bit bigger tension maintenance (on the TW tests).

 

[SinneGOAT]

If you want another string, 4g is amazing in gut hybrids. It reigns in the power a lot, and the tension maintenance is amazing. Spin and control are the huge advantages.

 

[Fighting phoenix]

Visual aid...

Title:	Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough
Category:	Surface
Creator:	Jens
Published:	2005-04-14
Description:	Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough surface view.
Source:	Stringforum.net

Well, from what I’ve experienced with gut and rough crosses I didn’t have a problem with them shaving into gut mains like I did with a shaped poly.

 

[WYK]

I've used natural gut like 2-3 times in my entire life but the consensus on the boards when going for durability is:
- use smooth round strings, so all "Roughs" are out;
- use a gauge as similar as possible to reduce "sawing" - so 1.20 is out.

Additionally there's also tension maintenance of each string to take into account.

P.S. When reading @Fighting phoenix post it also occured to me that some strings have a reputation of "loosing" their playability faster than others e.g. Alu Power.

So that would cross out Alu Power...

Rough strings aren't often 'rough'. Most of them only describe the fact the surface is dimpled(as in Luxilon's and RPM's cases).
These versions of rough strings are actually even more slick and frictionless than their non rough counterparts.
Hence, the reason many pros use these with gut strings, as well as a cross for their non-rough counterparts.
RPM Rough 125 actually rates as one of the slickest strings TWU has ever tested.

 

[WYK]

Visual aid...

Title:	Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough
Category:	Surface
Creator:	Jens
Published:	2005-04-14
Description:	Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough surface view.
Source:	Stringforum.net

Exactly, as you can see in the image, less of the string actually would be in contact with the gut as the rough string is irregular.
Notice it has no harsh edges that would actually contact the gut. The lumps are smooth and rounded, only the inner craters of the dimple are diamond shaped(due to the machine imprint). Those craters are filled with air. As in when the gut moves over them, it is riding on air, and not poly.
Thus, it actually contacts the gut less often than a smooth round string would when the gut moves, and it allows the gut to more easily move and snap back.

I string a few hybrids for college players, and this does indeed seem to be the case. The gut lasts longer and you get more spin.
This is why pros often use ALU Rough as a cross.

 

[WYK]

Well, from what I’ve experienced with gut and rough crosses I didn’t have a problem with them shaving into gut mains like I did with a shaped poly.

That is exactly my experience, too. ALU Rough and RPM Rough extend the life of gut, and increase the spin.
Stiff shaped polys will absolutely grind away the gut.

 

[LOBALOT]

That is exactly my experience, too. ALU Rough and RPM Rough extend the life of gut, and increase the spin.
Stiff shaped polys will absolutely grind away the gut.

ALU rough and RPM rough are not the same. RPM rough does not have divots but bumps. It is also not round.

 

[LOBALOT]

Although I have reels ALU, ALU Rough, Element, Poly Tour Pro, etc. I have not used them as crosses for gut. I have strung ALU/ALU rough as crosses to gut for others.

My personal goto is gut 16/fire 17 so out of the strings you had in your list that was the one I selected.

 

[WYK]

ALU rough and RPM rough are not the same. RPM rough does not have divots but bumps. It is also not round.

They both have divots and bumps(by virtue of the divots). Though it is not round like ALU is, RPM is not really sharp and stiff and shaped like some 5 and 6 sides polys are. It is worked in a similar fashion to ALU. It just has a more linear/squared divot. The photos make the string look like it has a well-defined profile, but in practice and behaviour, it is rather rounded. I'll see if I can get of pic of what I have here.

And here's Babolat's own photos of it:

Again, I think some people are arguing semantics, and ignorance. In practice, and in use, at the pro and college levels, ALU and RPM Rough work great as crosses for gut.
You have at least two people so far in this thread that have strung racquets with the aforementioned strings. We aren't just arm chare BSing here.

 

[LOBALOT]

Though it is not round like ALU is, it is not really sharp and stiff and shaped like some 5 and 6 sides polys are. It is worked in a similar fashion to ALU. It just has a more linear/squared divot. The photos make the string look like it has a well-defined profile, but in practice and behaviour, it is rather rounded. I'll if if I can get of pic of what I have here.

And here's Babolat's own photos of it:

Again, I think some people are arguing semantics, and ignorance. In practice, and in use, at the pro and college levels, ALU and RPM Rough work great as crosses for gut.
You have at least two people so far in this thread that have strung racquets with the aforementioned strings. We aren't just arm chare BSing here.

I have a reel of it in the basement and string it all the time. I am not getting hung up on semantics. From our macroscopic perspective the texture may look round but from the main that is sliding across it it is not.

I mean if you like the string as a cross use it but I don't agree with this not making a difference.

 

[WYK]

I have a reel of it in the basement and string it all the time. I am not getting hung up on semantics. From our macroscopic perspective the texture may look round but from the main that is sliding across it it is not.

I mean if you like the string as a cross use it but I don't agree with this not making a difference.

The whole idea is it is not round. It has divots and is mostly round. Though really more of a gear kind of pattern in the pics, by the time the consumer gets it, it looks and acts rounded. It behaves like it is round in practice vs 5 or 6 sided and stiff string, which is the most important part since, in practice, we use it on a tennis court and not in a laboratory.
Again - semantics. Look at Babolat's own photo above. Does this look like it has sides to you?
Bear in mind the post you quoted me in starts with 'Though it is not round...'

The whole point is it will not wear gut, and it works great with gut. Let's see what labolat says of that.

 

[WYK]

Here's an example of what we are talking about. When you place a cross in the stringbed opposite the gut, you want it to give the gut some of the qualities poly has, but you also want it to go easy on the gut(unless yer a pro who doesn't care, or just have money to spend.
The quality many here are talking about when it comes to gut lasting is whether the poly will have too much friction with the gut. Or whether it will cut into the gut.
This means you likely do not want a star shaped poly string that is stiff. In any case, the shaped poly likely will not add anything over a round one in this case. It is why pros and some college kids use a shaped poly on top of a round or rough one. The shaped poly does all the work of punching into the felt and grabbing it, while the round or rough poly allows the shaped poly to slide across it, adding spin, control, etc etc.

Now, some are wondering what we mean when we say rough vs shaped. Well, you saw the photos up above. Rough polys are often just treated mechanically - usually dimpled(this is what Babolat and Luxilon do). Shaped means they have some sort of a polygon cross section like a star, or maybe geared. But as you can see with the babolat photo above, RPm Rough does not have a gear shape. It has a very vague hint of being 8 sided. Which is one of the reasons it basically acts round in the stringbed.

Another reason for using something like RPM Rough is this chart. In it I am comparing Yonex Poly Tour Fire, a silicon injected string Talk Tennis likes to consider slick, and is often suggested as a cross. I like it as a cross, too. However, I prefer RPM Rough when I can get it because it is actually far more slick(better COF) than PTF. This is a great chart, because aside from the friction ratings, they measure up similarly:

The better the COF, the less resistance the main string has sliding against it. The less friction, the less wear on the gut.

 

[codonnell]

If you want another string, 4g is amazing in gut hybrids. It reigns in the power a lot, and the tension maintenance is amazing. Spin and control are the huge advantages.

I agree with 4g, you’ll get more playability for the $ and the high stiffness is reigned in by the gut.

 

[maxplough]

The number one determinant of gut durability in my experience is the effective diameter of the cross string. Sharp-edged shaped polys have a tiny effective diameter; smooth-rectangular or oval strings a very large one. I strongly recommend GS Irukandji (tested extensively in the 6.1 100) for the crosses with gut, if you have a source for it—it more than doubles gut life in my experience, perhaps significantly more. Failing that, going from say 1.20 to 1.30 in round crosses will have a modest but noticeable positive effect. You might have to decrease the tension to maintain effective stiffness.

Next up are the gut guage (I personally don't see much downside to 1.35 vs 1.25) and cross tension (higher is worse)

 

[alexbc997]

Thanks everyone for your input. Lots of great discussions.

For now, I’ve decided to go with Nat Gut/Alu rough for my first racket and try. Won’t do the second one until I play with this for a bit.

Interesting that second vote goes to Yonex Poly tour pro and not fire. Could ppl who voted for Pro, explain why? Is it because it’s softer? Wouldn’t Fire slickness be more beneficial?

 

[alexbc997]

Just an update.

Got my Pro Staff 6.1 100v13 strung with Wilson Gut 1.30 at 56lbs in main, and Luxilon Alu rough 1.25 at 52lbs in the cross. The combo is absolutely sublime. It has excellent power, great spin, control and pocketing is ideal. How long the tension will last, who knows but my tennis shop said it should hold up as poly is in cross and shouldn’t lose it that fast.

So, I highly recommend this particular combo for the playability and combination of characteristics. Whether or not they last long remains to be seen.

 

[DropvolleysRhard]

I use either Alu power 1.15, Head Hawk Touch 1.15 with VS 17g gut in my speeds. My sone uses poly tour rev with gut in his Strike 97s and Gravity Pros and loves it. I did gut/poly tour rev in my ultra pro V4 this past fall and it is a nice combo.

 

[alexbc997]

I use either Alu power 1.15, Head Hawk Touch 1.15 with VS 17g gut in my speeds. My sone uses poly tour rev with gut in his Strike 97s and Gravity Pros and loves it. I did gut/poly tour rev in my ultra pro V4 this past fall and it is a nice combo.

Why 1.15?! Some here say not to use too thin of a gauge vs. 1.30 mains.

 

[stapletonj]

Given that Alu has a reputation for going dead pretty quickly, I would let you know that there are several threads over on the stringers section that address
cutting out the crosses and restringing them only.

TL/DR = You can, just be very careful.

 

[DropvolleysRhard]

Why 1.15?! Some here say not to use too thin of a gauge vs. 1.30 mains.

Because I like it’s playability better. Thinner is more elastic and better feel. Mains are gut 1.20. Downside to thinner is it breaks quicker but since the 1.15 is in crosses not as big a deal. My son works at my good friends shop so I can string my rackets free anytime so I don’t worry how quickly I break them.

 

[einca13]

The best cross for gut I have ever found is 4G. Poly Tour Fire is a close 2nd.