Which string pattern do you use with the tC97? I liked the feel of Pro Staff and Pure Strike, do you think I will like the feel of TC97?
Pro's Pro Strings!?
- Thread starter Jura-SB
- Start date
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
I don't quite understand this question.
why would it have to be validated by a pro to have a consideration?
many of us play with rackets that are 20 or 30 years old, but for example, which pro plays today with a pro staff st vincent 85? what prooue with a POG? which pro plays with a pro tour 630?
does that mean that these are bad material choices?
I always resume finally, my brother always says that:
at the time Jim Courier was playing with s-gut. what does it do? 20 or 25 years? if he was able to play with that 30 years ago, if I can reach a quarter of his level today with s-gut I'm ready right now!
nobody plays with full bed natural tubular anymore. Does that mean it sucks? I do not think so.
well, i don't think we have to look and figure out who is playing with what to decide what to play with! otherwise no one would seriously play with radical, babolat prestige and so many frames that are never used by the pros, just PCs on old frames! ....
agassi was playing with a kevlar hybrid, if I could play 10% of his level with a radical tour OS and a kevlar hybrid ..
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
I'm not so sure about that.
as much as a poly, there is so much inside .. the chemical makeup is so complex, that i wouldn't say no. (between an aluminum tower and a cyberpower for example, and more! but it's totally different.)
by cotnre between an aramid PP, a kevlar ashaway, a kevlar prince .. I would not bet a penny on the difference. let's not forget that these three strings use pure Kevlar fibers !.
and a kevlar fiber is a kevlar fiber! who has already played with kevlar, and broken kevlar, knows that they are micro fibers just braided / rolled up in a covering. it gets thinner quickly with wear (well, quickly, I understand myself) .. but once the coating is worn, we can see very well that it is fiber ... and I do not think that ashaway, prince where pro's pro "manufactures" its own kevlar fibers, but buys them from Dupont, and the two other kevlar / aramid / twaron manufacturers, it's the same thing !.
tennisBIEST
Professional
Did I offend you? It’s a legitimate question. What percentage of advanced players play with Synthetic Gut or Kevlar in your estimation? And why is that number so low? I’m curious Lucie.
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
no, not at all, I was just saying that today (we put a lot more importance on "who plays with" than on "does that suit me".
when I was 22 years old, I had a small clothing sponsor, as a girl, I was given ten tennis skirts, I think it was diadora, or lotto? I don't know with t-shirts and polo shirts for girls.
I've always hated playing in a skirt, and instead I bought branded tennis shorts from a tennis company, I think we really care too much about whether there are people who play or not with this or that material.
take for example a brand like Donnay, or worse, Prince at home.
on my island no one plays with donnay, and there must be no more than 15-20 people playing with Prince!
Why? are these bad rackets? no, certainly not.
but just that since nobody plays with it, (pro) the shops do not buy it, and therefore, therefore, nobody plays with it! ..
it's logic.
look at pro kenex, with its classic redondo, which was an excellent racquet, or even volkl C10, how many players are playing with it? or even currently the pro tour 2.0. how many players are playing with?
does that mean that these are bad materials? I do not think so.
I would even go further. one of the best strings I have tried to date is not used by any player, ATP or WTA!
the dyreex whisper and the dyreex super tour!
remember, when babolat released their first rackets, no one was playing with them ..
but to come back to the subject, initial, of kevlar / s-gut, it is normal that few or almost no players play with it ... it's simple: these top players change their strings every 9 games, therefore, no do not need string durability !.
tennisBIEST
Professional
So you believe there are 2 main reasons advanced players aren’t using Kevlar and Synthetic Gut.
1 nobody is using it
2 there isn’t a need for durability at the advanced level anymore.
1 nobody is using it
2 there isn’t a need for durability at the advanced level anymore.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Point of clarification ...
Pros Pro manufactures and sells a string called Pure Aramid which is similar to Kevlar but not exactly the same.
Pros Pro manufactures and sells a string called Pure Aramid which is similar to Kevlar but not exactly the same.
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
I do not know..
stupid questions (from me):
head from the 90s are still good choices today.
(head prestige classic, head radical, not to say PT57).
so, these frames have been fine, but the sotn still.
s-gut, was a string of choice in the 80s and 90s. Courier performed at his highest level with FB s-gut.
Today, I think that even at average, even interesting levels (I mean 5.5 to 6.0 or more?) we are very, very far from having the level of these players there at those times.
Agassi played Head Radical (PT59 OS, for me, OS version of PT57) and also played kevlar / s-gut.
in this case, logically, why what was used by a top racket + string player could no longer be used in terms of string, when the racket always would be? (PT59 + kevlar / s-gut hybrid).
For my part, I played this hybrid until very late. when the poly came out, only existed in 1.30mm and hurt my arm, I continued with kevlar / s-gut.
moreover, the natural gut / kevlar hybrid is very popular in some countries.
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
in every hybrid, the weak point is the weak point of the weakest string.
in a Kev / s-gut, the weakness of the s-gut and the locking of the kev will be the weak point
in natural gut / poly, the weakness will be the poly playability time.
kev does not lose tension.
natural gut does not lose tension (well, yes, but for both so little, and kev with loss of tension is quite playable) ..
a friend has been playing natural gut / kev for years! ...
and for him it's the best of both worlds!
kev is also stiffer than poly, but lasts much longer in tension stability than any poly.
i will wait until my poly is dead to try nat gut / kevlar ..
in a Kev / s-gut, the weakness of the s-gut and the locking of the kev will be the weak point
in natural gut / poly, the weakness will be the poly playability time.
kev does not lose tension.
natural gut does not lose tension (well, yes, but for both so little, and kev with loss of tension is quite playable) ..
a friend has been playing natural gut / kev for years! ...
and for him it's the best of both worlds!
kev is also stiffer than poly, but lasts much longer in tension stability than any poly.
i will wait until my poly is dead to try nat gut / kevlar ..
1HBHfanatic
Legend
-ive never ventured into this type of string, just hit it on someone's racket, a few times
-are there any redeeming qualities to this pros.pro version of kevlar?
-is it just a more durable multi string??
-btw, i am not switching or trying it, im just curious, tnx
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
Sometimes you are giving us oneliners but you forget to give the explanation.
Since we are discussion Pros pro strings here, what is according to you the difference between a string that is called pure kevlar and a another one that is called pure aramid?
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
i dont believe in natural gut because it is much too expensive. one set costs more than a reel of Pros pro strings Wilson gut costs even nearly twice as most Pros pro. Gut feels fantastic until it snaps. And it snaps very fast. i remember with old wooden closed patterned racquet it lasted < 2 hours. So you must be a pro like Fed or Clijsters to use it because when out of racquets they can ask for fast on court string service and they have the deep pockets to pay for those expensive stringjobs if they are not sponsored.
It notched super fast imo, it wasn't braided? like ashaway kevlar,
Karma Tennis
Legend
Sometimes you are giving us oneliners but you forget to give the explanation.
Since we are discussion Pros pro strings here, what is according to you the difference between a string that is called pure kevlar and a another one that is called pure aramid?
I imagine that most people would know the difference between Kevlar and aramid, just like most would not the difference between a Poly and a Co-
Poly string, or a monofilament nylon and multifilament nylon.
So I didn't want to waste their time explaining things that should be obvious. Otherwise Google is your friend.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
YES indeed google search is my friend and so is wikipedia:
Aramid - Wikipedia
I can only conclude you are here to bash Pros pro strings but you dont know even the fact that kevlar, aramid or twaron are just different names for the same material.
ofcourse you dont want to discuss about it because you are absolutely wrong just as in most cases Lucie is right here!
Dont be bothered by karma and his friends Lucie. They clearly dont know nothing they are talking about although they pretend to be some kind of experts
Karma Tennis
Legend
Kevlar, aramid and twaron are NOT the same materials.
Ashway Kevlar and Pros Pro Aramid are completely different products that play completely differently.
I agree Lucie. Just listen to the RS, he will tell you everything you need to know because he is a Professional.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Chemically, they are not exactly the same.
Ashway Kevlar is composed of long strands of Kevlar fibres braided together.
Pro's Pro uses Nomex fibres that are effectively "melted" together and then extruded like a multifilament string.
This is why Ashway and PP play differently. And that is also the main reason for the difference in price. They are certainly not the same as several threads here on TTW have discussed over they years.
But like I said, just ignore me and listen to Ron. He is the guru on Kevlar strings.
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
please explain to me.
what are aramid, kevlar and twaron made of, what makes them different? in terms of competition, chemical or otherwise? I would like to learn some.
moreover, i use kevlar and aramid, moreover they are not the same materials according to you, in configurations chosen (until 2015) for their abrasion resistance. and before I used an ashaway or prince pro blend configuration, using only kevlar or aramid. by replacing the crosses with tgv technifibre.
at that time, for me anyway, used only for resistance, kevlar and aramid played the same way.
then, i used aramid or kevlar in a cross use for the natural gut, to use the ability to have a very good tension stability, and in this case also i found that ashaway and pro's pro play exactly the same way .
Of course, I cannot comment on the comfort, the power or the flexibility of these strings (aramid or kevlar) since for me these characteristics do not exist.
but I would have liked to know where you bought PP kevlar sets to try them out, because I can't find any, or if you have any real PP leftover if you could sell me ..
tennisBIEST
Professional
I remember when this thread was a fun read. Now it’s just long winded responses and snarky comments back and forth.
Karma Tennis
Legend
It's still a fun read.
It's just that different people are at different stages of their experiences with tennis strings.
Viva la difference.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Afaik, PP have never sold Kevlar strings, only Aramid.
I had a friend who bought several different reels of PP strings about 5 years ago (inc. Aramid ones.). Some of us got to try various different ones over a period of about 6 months. Ashaway and PP definitely felt and played differently. Most preferred Ashaway because it provided much greater spin potential and was more comfortable on impact. However, it lost tension more quickly. We wondered why because we thought kevlar and aramid was the same material. On further investigation we learned that wasn't the case.
Doesn't matter, none of us use it anymore. And I'm the only one left that has any PP string in the stringing kit ... my favourite Black Out 1.24. But that has been retired in favour of Hyper-G which offers everything that BO did plus a whole lot more.
Anyway, Stay Safe.
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
I cannot more agree with you .
in the 90s aramid (or kevlar), for me what makes the difference between ashaway and pro's pro is the same difference between a 100% polyamide s-gut and an origin babolat, 100% polyamide, it is the construction
if ashaway is more comfortable i think it's its construction like you said braided but back then aramid / kevlar was used for wear resistance. in no case aramid or kevlar were used for their comfort. it would be like using natural gut for its durability to wear.
for me, I'm talking about today, not from 1990, one of the only interest of aramid (PP) is its very very long tension stability, and by using it in its 1.10 gauge, the thinnest to replace poly in cross use. for a hybrid, natural gut / kevlar. and with this in mind, PP having much better tension stability is a much better choice than ashaway. and even more than poly. since even after 8 p.m., Kevlar crosses do not lose their tension.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
I say "COME OUT of YOUR BUBBLE!" Kevlar, aramid or twaron have nothing to do with exoerience or hear say. Its the fact that they are thecsame material. Listen i m a chemist and if you have chemical proof these are different materials than provide us with your proof or otherwise dont spread your "alternate facts". We have already one trump on this world. That quite enough.
See above
There could be some misunderstanding by some who mistaken this Pros pro aramid spin string with the pure aramid. The aramid spin is just a sgut with an aramid coating. Ofcourse different aramid/kevlar/twaron strings could feel a little different because these aramid/kevlar/twaron fibers could be braided differently and there is perception we know that a more expensive string is often rated higher in comparison just because its expensive which is a recurring theme here on this thread. Twu with Michelle should really do a completely blind test of the different kevlar/aramid/twaron strings. That would give us a better indication but there is akways personal preferences too.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
Interesting nonsense again from you. How can Nomex be melted together and extruded? This material is used for its heat resistency in clothing eg.
You know what extrusing means?
topspinlob
Rookie
I agree with you @tennisBIEST... i just want some friendly chat about pro's pro string but now it's just gone haywire....
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
next month I'm testing an unconventional hybrid.
pro's pro pure aramid 1.10mm with crosses pro's pro dura ace "squash" ... 1.20mm
the dura ace I tested it quickly in FB, it looks a lot like a king gut, a little too powerful, it would need to put something to add control...
pro's pro pure aramid 1.10mm with crosses pro's pro dura ace "squash" ... 1.20mm
the dura ace I tested it quickly in FB, it looks a lot like a king gut, a little too powerful, it would need to put something to add control...
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
next month I'm testing an unconventional hybrid.
pro's pro pure aramid 1.10mm with crosses pro's pro dura ace "squash" ... 1.20mm
the dura ace I tested it quickly in FB, it looks a lot like a king gut, a little too powerful, it would need to put something to add control...
pro's pro pure aramid 1.10mm with crosses pro's pro dura ace "squash" ... 1.20mm
the dura ace I tested it quickly in FB, it looks a lot like a king gut, a little too powerful, it would need to put something to add control...
tennisBIEST
Professional
I just remembered I have the greatest tool of all! The IGNORE BUTTON!! Sleep tight!
Karma Tennis
Legend
That all makes sense. However, Natural Gut has its own challenges ... especially if one plays a lot on Clay or in wet conditions.
I did try simply restringing Cross strings for a while. That does work but you have to be careful not to nick the NG when untying the knots.
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what_army
Semi-Pro
Interesting, keep us posted!
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
in fact, i already know what i'm looking for.
I played a few weeks with isospeed pro control .. on1.20mm (ribon technology), with polyfibre hightec 1.10mm. that's good, but two drawbacks:
1) polyfibre very quickly loses its tension, and after 4 to 6 hours is completely dead
2) isospeed is too expensive to be replaced after 4 hours.
I was therefore looking for a coherent unit that would hold the tension a little, for the moment I am also waiting toalson asterisk 1.20mm to cover them with dura ace PP stroke PP pure aramid crosswise.
for the moment using these gauges, it is very dynamic, with a very short response time, we really feel the ball (I also tested kingut 1.25X black force 1.14mm as well as mantis power synth 1.20 X polyfibre 1.10,
each time the s-gut or multi is very nice, but the poly dies really too quickly, that's why I turn to pure aramid.
1HBHfanatic
Legend
-yet another reason i am not a fan of "Nat gut"
-i rather throw in a new set of syn.gut everytime!! and forget all this mess
-syntheitcs and polys are easy on my time and my money
what_army
Semi-Pro
Durability: I'm 3-4h into this hybrid and the Hitec crosses have now started to lose their outer coating due to thinning which means they will be breaking over the next 1-2h max. I have some photos I can post so that you get a sense of how the stringbed evolves over time.
Playability: I noticed a drop in tension after the first 30min or so but after that it has played very consistently. If this really lasts me around 5h, then it's good enough in terms of durability/playability and I won't have to be concerned about concept dying out.
All in all, I liked the blend of moderate control, low-ish power and good feel/comfort, and this is one hybrid I'll be sure to revisit in the future.
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ChrisG
Professional
do you mind telling me where did you buy interceptor ?
thanks
what_army
Semi-Pro
It was a professional seller on a local ads website, but these sites usually have great prices:
www.mundopelota.es
www.cordajesdetenisymas.es
what_army
Semi-Pro
Today the hitec crosses finally broke after ~5h as expected. What is more surprising is what happened when I cut the concept mains (strung at 24kg, I always string poly at 23 or 24kg). Well, when I cut one of the central mains today, the string snapped loudly and the two extremities of the string I had cut stood at least 3cm away from each other. This is not uncommon on multi strings but I'd never seen such good tension maintenance on a poly. Whenever I cut poly it's usually a much more underwhelming affair, and the extremities of the cut string remain relatively close to each other after having been cut. Very impressive.
I'm still committed to trying interceptor mains / multi crosses but will keep stringing concept / hitec on a few of my frames (I'll actually try concept / gutex 1.35 to see if durability is much improved).
And to wrap this review up, here's a photo of the stringbed (Lucie will not be impressed):
And how it looked at the 3-4h mark:
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
if you have two identical rackets I encourage you to try one with concept / multi, and the second with multi / concept! ..
that could be surprising! .. adapting well on the tension.
if poly / multi at 24-24, multi / poly I would set it at 26/22 .. or 25/23
but concept is a very surprising string. even in low voltage FB it is very surprising (under 20kg)
that could be surprising! .. adapting well on the tension.
if poly / multi at 24-24, multi / poly I would set it at 26/22 .. or 25/23
but concept is a very surprising string. even in low voltage FB it is very surprising (under 20kg)
AceyMan
Professional
My heart just skipped a beat, since I'm considering combos like this very pairing. I'm hoping Asterisk is like a syngut-plus (= not quite a super syngut like Gamma's stuff / Gosen AK CX Pro).
I'm curious about Concept now. Up till this moment, the PP polys I was most interested in were Blackout, Interceptor & Cyclone Power. I'm pretty sold on Blackout, as I want a reliable polygon string in my supply chest.
And +1 to the idea of a squared poly from Pro's Pro. What are they waiting for? They could upset the UltraCable / Black Code 4S / etc. demand curve.
/Acey
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ron schaap
Hall of Fame
. Take note Astrix i 1.20 is a quash string, so probably not sold at tennis webshop. I have the 1.30 which is more robust and sometimes using it in crosses with Concept 1.28 to give a little more power. I had a few sets in 1.25 Astrix which is much more stretching upon stringing so not very pleasant, however better feeling and power. Its a Toalson so more expensive than Pros pro sguts.
For square strings to produce they would have to cut a thick round strings, so its a different production process and maybe like in case with ultra cable an other material is used.
O and to use a soft multi in crosses which notches very fast you ofcourse reduce launch angle and spinpotential. The other way around the mains would notch quickly but can keep sliding. Probably not a very durable solution.
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lucieisland
Semi-Pro
Lucie Is Magic!...
note: 12.2m is for tennis, for squash it's 10-11m
on other face it's notified tennis string!
maybe going to try it with next new frames on hybrid, (BBO/asterisk Vs Super Tour (dyreex)/asterik Vs Big Star (Discho) / asterik)...
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ChrisG
Professional
Thanks !!
Sorry to ask but could you give me a short review of both interceptor and concept ?
France Government has just announce indoor tennis is not allowed for the next 15 days so I guess I’ll have time to string some frames !
what_army
Semi-Pro
How can they ban indoor sport when the RG will surely play with the closed roof? Back to the topic, I haven't tried interceptor yet but will post a review as soon as I do.
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
because in France we are the stupidest in the world! ...
we can't tell the difference between 20 people on a basketball court and 2 people on a tennis court! .. it's too complicated !.
and if we did, there would be enough jealous people of other sports to say that it is not normal, that tennis is a sport for the rich and that tennis players are privileged ....
Taveren
Professional
I have tested PP Claycourt Plus (multi) mains with either Red Devil or PP Synthetic Gut cross strung at 56/54lbs on my TC95 and TC97 and it lasts me max of only 9 hours playing dubs. Worst case it snapped during a heavy hitting session which was probably only in the 2-3 hour mark.
I love the feel, controlled power and comfort of this hybrid but I am ready to move away from it and stick to PP Poly hybrids as this is the 3rd time I snapped the multi (twice on my TC97 16x19 and once on my TC95 18x20)
So far IME my current go to hybrid is Blackout/RedDevil and Black Eruption/Concept still testing which one I prefer the most but both setups work well for my game.
I love the feel, controlled power and comfort of this hybrid but I am ready to move away from it and stick to PP Poly hybrids as this is the 3rd time I snapped the multi (twice on my TC97 16x19 and once on my TC95 18x20)
So far IME my current go to hybrid is Blackout/RedDevil and Black Eruption/Concept still testing which one I prefer the most but both setups work well for my game.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
Svp show me your magic mon amie? ;-);-)Lucie Is Magic!...
note: 12.2m is for tennis, for squash it's 10-11m
on other face it's notified tennis string!
maybe going to try it with next new frames on hybrid, (BBO/asterisk Vs Super Tour (dyreex)/asterik Vs Big Star (Discho) / asterik)...
is asterisk same as asterista? and why not use it in mains?
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
because BBO is a very good string (I couldn't find anything similar on PP )... the closest I found was discho big star and dyreex super tour.
but to confirm this I have to try them at the same time on the same frames.
but to confirm this I have to try them at the same time on the same frames.
Karma Tennis
Legend
So I did an experiment with Black Out.
I pre-stretched it for 6 hours before stringing it on an APD, full bed at 48 lbs.
Playability was very similar to usual without the usual significant tension drop straight off the stringing machine. And the playability duration is up from two hours to about five.
Spin and control potential remains the same. And there appears to be noticeably less notching of the mains.
Will probably try the same but hybrid it with a slick poly cross next.
I pre-stretched it for 6 hours before stringing it on an APD, full bed at 48 lbs.
Playability was very similar to usual without the usual significant tension drop straight off the stringing machine. And the playability duration is up from two hours to about five.
Spin and control potential remains the same. And there appears to be noticeably less notching of the mains.
Will probably try the same but hybrid it with a slick poly cross next.
1HBHfanatic
Legend
@Taveren
-for me PP multis are a bit disappointing now, ive tried ALOT of the ones they have currently, even pp.claycourt+ (cool color, but nothing else)
-i started with pro.supex.max.touch (used for about 10 years),
-i replaced that with pp.gutex.ultra (used for about 10 years after that)
-i replaced and moved on from pros pro multis in the last 2-3 years with head.velocity
-for me, the cost/performance of h.velocity is worth it for under $10, if it ever goes north of that, i will be looking for something else
-for me PP multis are a bit disappointing now, ive tried ALOT of the ones they have currently, even pp.claycourt+ (cool color, but nothing else)
-i started with pro.supex.max.touch (used for about 10 years),
-i replaced that with pp.gutex.ultra (used for about 10 years after that)
-i replaced and moved on from pros pro multis in the last 2-3 years with head.velocity
-for me, the cost/performance of h.velocity is worth it for under $10, if it ever goes north of that, i will be looking for something else
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
but bbo isnt thin at all. i mean when people mentions cyber power to be an improved Alu, why not use the 1.30 gauge cyber power which should be more stable than 1.20 and lot cheaper than bbo?
lucieisland
Semi-Pro
because thin string in 18/19 or 19/20 is fine, but in 16/18 OS it is not the same.
if BBO existed in 1.20 .. it would be happiness. just because i love PP doesn't mean i am anti luxilon .. i just think luxilon alu power is a scam! ..
if BBO existed in 1.20 .. it would be happiness. just because i love PP doesn't mean i am anti luxilon .. i just think luxilon alu power is a scam! ..
