Questions about NG...

[Tiaxx]

Ok, so here's the story...

I'm currently undergoing physical therapy cause i have an injured shoulder.
I was talking to my coach today and he said that the guy that usually strings our rackets recommended that when i get back to playing tennis i should try NG so it's not so hard on my shoulder... (full bed, hybrid setup, that is yet to be determined...)

The string i'm currenly using is Hyper-G, so i kinda understand his recomendation of using NG when i get back.

I have one concern, and that is that i fall in love with NG and decide that NG is the way to go.
So with that in mind i have a few questions for you string experts out there...

1- Depending on the type of training i do, i usually break a string within 9 to 15 hours of playtime. If i start using NG (for the sake of argument let's assume i'll use a hybrid setup), will that setup last me longer? And if so, how much longer (looking for ballpark numbers here obviously....)?

2- Sometimes i decide to cut the string before breaking it, because the strings become dead. So how is the tension maintenance of a hybrid setup? Does it loses more or less tension than a full bed of Hyper G?

3- Now the fear i have. If i fall in love with NG. Is it worth it pricewise? I mean, comparing the difference in price of Hyper G and Wilson Champion's Choice for example.... The price difference is massive!!!
So i guess what i'm trying to determine is at the end of the year, will the difference in money spent be huge? Only slightly higher?

4- Going from Hyper G to a hybrid setup, what can i expect in terms of playing? As in spin, power, control, etc???

Thank you very much in advance guys...

 

[Booger]

There is zero advantage to using poly unless you are 4.5+ and want a little extra spin for the first few hours. That's it. If you hit hard enough to take advantage of poly, it's mush after the first few hours and totally dead after 6-8.

Natural gut is superior in every other way. Lasts a long time, holds tension, super soft, best for touch/feel, etc. 95% of rec players would be best served with a full bed of NG at moderate tension. The initial cost is higher (though not necessarily the total cost), but you're going to risk further pain and injury to save $20? Don't overthink it.

 

[Tiaxx]

There is zero advantage to using poly unless you are 4.5+ and want a little extra spin for the first few hours. That's it. If you hit hard enough to take advantage of poly, it's mush after the first few hours and totally dead after 6-8.

Natural gut is superior in every other way. Lasts a long time, holds tension, super soft, best for touch/feel, etc. 95% of rec players would be best served with a full bed of NG at moderate tension. The initial cost is higher (though not necessarily the total cost), but you're going to risk further pain and injury to save $20? Don't overthink it.

Ok but define long time... I literally have no idea what's the difference in durability. That's what i'm trying to find out...

I understand what you're saying about the risk of pain and injury, and that's why i'm considering the switch to NG.
Just need to find out if i will be spending more at the end of the year, and if so, by how much...
But ty for your response. Made me consider NG a bit more seriously that's for sure...

 

[esgee48]

Answer these questions: What frame do you use? What is your current string (detailed not just name)? What tension? How long does the string last in your frame? You provided no info and yet expect intelligent responses. What level of player are you (beginner ≤ 3.5, intermediate 4.0-4.5+, advanced ≥ 5.0)? What type of ground strokes do you currently have? What are you aiming for?

Answer the above before someone can determine if NG is appropriate for your game. You did not mention hybrids with NG or Multi or SG mains, which are options.

Polys have very limited lives. 2-8 hours of good playability. You definitely should cut them out before 12 hours. Multi also suffer from this to a certain extent due to loss of tension (well, some don't.) Go to TWU and read up on string characteristics.

 

[Booger]

Ok but define long time... I literally have no idea what's the difference in durability. That's what i'm trying to find out...

I understand what you're saying about the risk of pain and injury, and that's why i'm considering the switch to NG.
Just need to find out if i will be spending more at the end of the year, and if so, by how much...
But ty for your response. Made me consider NG a bit more seriously that's for sure...

Just going to have to try it.

 

[treo]

If NG will save your arm from injury, it is worth every penny. For me, NG is way cheaper than full poly. Instead of having to cut out dead poly every two weeks, full Tonic+ NG will last me over 4 months. It didn't break either. It frayed and lost some tension so I cut the knots off the one piece string job and used it again as a half set of a full gut job.

 

[EaglesTennis]

The Gut/Poly thread answers all of your question and even specifically talks about natural gut/hyper G hybrid

But long story short. DO IT, Hybrid

 

[Tiaxx]

Answer these questions: What frame do you use? What is your current string (detailed not just name)? What tension? How long does the string last in your frame? You provided no info and yet expect intelligent responses. What level of player are you (beginner ≤ 3.5, intermediate 4.0-4.5+, advanced ≥ 5.0)? What type of ground strokes do you currently have? What are you aiming for?

Answer the above before someone can determine if NG is appropriate for your game. You did not mention hybrids with NG or Multi or SG mains, which are options.

Polys have very limited lives. 2-8 hours of good playability. You definitely should cut them out before 12 hours. Multi also suffer from this to a certain extent due to loss of tension (well, some don't.) Go to TWU and read up on string characteristics.

That's not entirely true, but ok... I may have not provided with all the info you are asking for now, but i did provided some info...

Frame: Blade 98s 2015 model - current weight: 335g strung, give or take a gram...
String: Hyper G 1.25 16L
Tension: 24/25 Kg
How long it lasts: I answered that in my op but here it goes again: ...i usually break a string within 9 to 15 hours of playtime...
Lvl of player: No idea. I don't live in the US so we don't have ratings here like you guys have...
Type of groundstrokes: Erm, better see for yourself i guess? Not really sure how to describe and what you're looking for exactly...

What am i aiming for: looking to find out exactly if a switch to NG will cost alot more than my current setup at the end of the year... How long will a stringjob with the new setup will last in comparison with my current setup...
Also, what will i gain/lose in terms of strokes if i make the switch. Will i lose/gain power on strokes? Spin? etc,etc...
And since the debate is about NG i assumed it was clear that the hybrid part would be NG mains. Never mentioned SG or Multi...

If NG will save your arm from injury, it is worth every penny. For me, NG is way cheaper than full poly. Instead of having to cut out dead poly every two weeks, full Tonic+ NG will last me over 4 months. It didn't break either. It frayed and lost some tension so I cut the knots off the one piece string job and used it again as a half set of a full gut job.

Wow, 4 months? And neither the NG neither the poly lost tension during those 4 months? The problem i face with my current setup, is that if i don't break the string within say the 10h mark, the string starts to lose tension badly. The strings won't snapback into place,etc... And the racket starts acting as trampolim, launching balls to the backfence,etc...
This doesn't happen with your setup during those 4 months??? (not doubting your word, just really amazed that a stringjob can last 4 months...)

The Gut/Poly thread answers all of your question and even specifically talks about natural gut/hyper G hybrid

But long story short. DO IT, Hybrid

Ok. As soon as i get home from work and have time to sit down i'll take a look at it. 48 pages worth of read. Should get some nice info there. Thx mate...

 

[McLovin]

3- Now the fear i have. If i fall in love with NG. Is it worth it pricewise? I mean, comparing the difference in price of Hyper G and Wilson Champion's Choice for example.... The price difference is massive!!!
So i guess what i'm trying to determine is at the end of the year, will the difference in money spent be huge? Only slightly higher?

I'd just like to point out that TW is currently running a sale on Babolat strings: Buy 2, get 1 free.

And amazingly...this includes their Natural Gut. While I'm not a fan of the new 'BT7' version of the gut, at $29 a pack for VS Touch or Team, and $25 for Tonic +, it is without a doubt worth it at these prices. Its actually cheaper than KLIP Legend!

So, I say 'load up'! If you don't like it, you can always return unused packages to TW.

EDIT: On the price difference..using the sale prices, if you use Tonic + and pair it with...say...Cyberflash or Big Hitter Silver (both respectable polys at $8 per pack), you'd pay $33 for 2 sets of string, meaning it would only be $16.50/racquet. Yes, more expensive than full Hyper-G, but not ridiculously expensive. And if you buy a reel of the poly, it can sometimes cut the poly cost in half, making it $14.50/racquet.

 

[Tiaxx]

I'd just like to point out that TW is currently running a sale on Babolat strings: Buy 2, get 1 free.

And amazingly...this includes their Natural Gut. While I'm not a fan of the new 'BT7' version of the gut, at $29 a pack for VS Touch or Team, and $25 for Tonic +, it is without a doubt worth it at these prices. Its actually cheaper than KLIP Legend!

So, I say 'load up'! If you don't like it, you can always return unused packages to TW.

EDIT: On the price difference..using the sale prices, if you use Tonic + and pair it with...say...Cyberflash or Big Hitter Silver (both respectable polys at $8 per pack), you'd pay $33 for 2 sets of string, meaning it would only be $16.50/racquet. Yes, more expensive than full Hyper-G, but not ridiculously expensive. And if you buy a reel of the poly, it can sometimes cut the poly cost in half, making it $14.50/racquet.

1st of all, tyvm for the reply.
That is indeed a good deal.
I still have half a reel of Hyper G. Maybe i could use that in the begining to pair it up with NG?
14.50 a racquet is alot more that what i'm paying now, but i'm guessing i wouldn't be stringing as often as i do now right? That's mainly my question. How often will i be restringing with NG... (a rough estimate ofc...)

 

[McLovin]

I still have half a reel of Hyper G. Maybe i could use that in the begining to pair it up with NG?
14.50 a racquet is alot more that what i'm paying now, but i'm guessing i wouldn't be stringing as often as i do now right? That's mainly my question. How often will i be restringing with NG... (a rough estimate ofc...)

While not ideal, you can use Hyper-G as a cross (I do it for some people I string for), but to get the most of the gut/poly, it is normally best to find a smooth, round poly that will slide & snap-back easily on the gut. The sharp edges of the Hyper-G *may* cut into the gut and reduce its lifespan.

On the longevity...I know it sounds like a cop-out, but true answer is 'it depends'. It depends mostly on playing style, conditions, and court surface. Looking at the video you posted, I'd definitely look at one of the thicker guts...16 or 15L. Clay has a tendency to reduce the life of gut, and you seem to hit a fair amount of topspin.

I do not break strings (unless I'm in Florida, where the humidity combined w/ clay wears the gut down), but I also have more 'classic' grips (Eastern forehand, Continental 2-handed backhand). Indoors, I'll go 20 hours before I feel the poly start to lose its 'snap back' ability, and I'll cut it out. Outdoor hard courts...maybe 15-18 hours.

You'll only know the answer by trying it.

 

[PhxRacket]

I have been stringing my DR100s with fb NG (Babolat VS Touch 17 @57 #). Love it, but it snaps pretty quickly. Is that due to the 16x19 pattern? How would the same string do in a 16x20 pattern?

 

[Tiaxx]

While not ideal, you can use Hyper-G as a cross (I do it for some people I string for), but to get the most of the gut/poly, it is normally best to find a smooth, round poly that will slide & snap-back easily on the gut. The sharp edges of the Hyper-G *may* cut into the gut and reduce its lifespan.

On the longevity...I know it sounds like a cop-out, but true answer is 'it depends'. It depends mostly on playing style, conditions, and court surface. Looking at the video you posted, I'd definitely look at one of the thicker guts...16 or 15L. Clay has a tendency to reduce the life of gut, and you seem to hit a fair amount of topspin.

I do not break strings (unless I'm in Florida, where the humidity combined w/ clay wears the gut down), but I also have more 'classic' grips (Eastern forehand, Continental 2-handed backhand). Indoors, I'll go 20 hours before I feel the poly start to lose its 'snap back' ability, and I'll cut it out. Outdoor hard courts...maybe 15-18 hours.

You'll only know the answer by trying it.

Ok so ideally i want a smooth poly instead of Hyper-G. (if i decide to go NG, i'll have to decide if i want to trash the rest of the Hyper G reel i have or if i just use it till it ends and then buy a more "suitable" poly to go with NG)...
15-18 hours is not bad. Not a lot more than what i'm getting atm (depending on what i do on practice ofc). Have to do some math to see if it's worth it moneywise to make the switch...
Anyway, thx a lot for your answer, did shed some light on the subject...

Small Edit:

Sadly the Babolat 3 for 2 promotion is US only... I'm from Europe so i don't have access to that deal...

 

[Traffic]

Ok, so here's the story...

I'm currently undergoing physical therapy cause i have an injured shoulder.
I was talking to my coach today and he said that the guy that usually strings our rackets recommended that when i get back to playing tennis i should try NG so it's not so hard on my shoulder... (full bed, hybrid setup, that is yet to be determined...)

The string i'm currenly using is Hyper-G, so i kinda understand his recomendation of using NG when i get back.

I have one concern, and that is that i fall in love with NG and decide that NG is the way to go.
So with that in mind i have a few questions for you string experts out there...

1- Depending on the type of training i do, i usually break a string within 9 to 15 hours of playtime. If i start using NG (for the sake of argument let's assume i'll use a hybrid setup), will that setup last me longer? And if so, how much longer (looking for ballpark numbers here obviously....)?

2- Sometimes i decide to cut the string before breaking it, because the strings become dead. So how is the tension maintenance of a hybrid setup? Does it loses more or less tension than a full bed of Hyper G?

3- Now the fear i have. If i fall in love with NG. Is it worth it pricewise? I mean, comparing the difference in price of Hyper G and Wilson Champion's Choice for example.... The price difference is massive!!!
So i guess what i'm trying to determine is at the end of the year, will the difference in money spent be huge? Only slightly higher?

4- Going from Hyper G to a hybrid setup, what can i expect in terms of playing? As in spin, power, control, etc???

Thank you very much in advance guys...

Hi Tiaxx,
I think there are many of us that have had to get creative with our stringing to get poly-like performance but Ngut like comfort for fragile body parts. So please take what I say with a grain of salt but will attempt to answer your questions. Just for background, my strokes are probably just a little less powerful than yours, but at the same time, I wonder if you can use those strokes in a real tournament match. That's a lot of power with very little footwork. Having said that, my son probably hits a little closer to your power level so I'm an experienced stringer for a competitive junior.

1) Full bed NG should last your longer than full bed poly. Hybrid NG with smooth/slick poly should last you even longer. How long? Only you can tell after you've played it. I don't break poly, but I'll notch them over time and they'll eventually break. Usually the poly goes dead before that time. NG/poly hybrid notches the NG very little in comparison. So if 9-15hrs for full poly, I'd probably venture to say you should get 50% more time. But again, everyone's mileage is different.
2) NG has the best tension maintenance of any string. Cross that with a poly that can also maintain tension and you can play with the setup until it breaks.
3) My son plays HyperG 18. He was breaking strings every week. But it gave him the predictable performance level for him to play his matches. You need to decide the balance point. When going to a hybrid NG, I found that my string job would last longer and I'm cutting the cost by sharing it with a (cheaper) poly cross. So it wasn't so bad. Think of how much physical therapy costs you. I wouldn't let cost be the sole driver. If you can afford lessons, you can afford NG.
4) You will not get HyperG level spin. You can get the control. Power is tunable.

If you are not already a high level player, it may benefit you greatly to tone down some of the "performance" of your strings to work on your strokes. I went from full poly, to poly/sgut hybrid, to full sgut, back to poly/sgut hybrid, full bed of a low powered multi (Velocity), NG/Cream(soft poly) hybrid to hybrid Velocity/Cream.

I now have the comfort I need.
I have the control.
I'm working on my form to get nearly the same level of spin.
I get at least double the duration on a stringjob.
My stringjob is cheap.

It took some time to dial in everything. But I'm pretty content.

 

[esgee48]

I have been stringing my DR100s with fb NG (Babolat VS Touch 17 @57 #). Love it, but it snaps pretty quickly. Is that due to the 16x19 pattern? How would the same string do in a 16x20 pattern?

Go up in gauge, i.e. use 16 Ga or thicker. Switching to 16x20 will not help that much unless the center is very dense.

OP: Thank you for the extra info. Since you break Hyper G in 9-15 hours, you are fine. [Normal for polys] There's a Hyper G thread where a kid restrings his Hyper G before 12 hours. Your game is spin based per your video. FB NG will not last any longer than your current Hyper G. And you will have less spin if you use a shaped poly as a cross in NG/poly hybrid. Switching to NG/poly will not materially extend your string bed life. In fact, your poly is going to die anyway within 8-12 hours anyway, whether used as full bed or as a cross. Then your control will suffer. If you are willing to experiment, check out the Kevlar/ZX thread since that is a durable and long lived hybrid combo especially in the Blade 98S. 3¢

 

[Tiaxx]

Hi Tiaxx,
I think there are many of us that have had to get creative with our stringing to get poly-like performance but Ngut like comfort for fragile body parts. So please take what I say with a grain of salt but will attempt to answer your questions. Just for background, my strokes are probably just a little less powerful than yours, but at the same time, I wonder if you can use those strokes in a real tournament match. That's a lot of power with very little footwork. Having said that, my son probably hits a little closer to your power level so I'm an experienced stringer for a competitive junior.

1) Full bed NG should last your longer than full bed poly. Hybrid NG with smooth/slick poly should last you even longer. How long? Only you can tell after you've played it. I don't break poly, but I'll notch them over time and they'll eventually break. Usually the poly goes dead before that time. NG/poly hybrid notches the NG very little in comparison. So if 9-15hrs for full poly, I'd probably venture to say you should get 50% more time. But again, everyone's mileage is different.
2) NG has the best tension maintenance of any string. Cross that with a poly that can also maintain tension and you can play with the setup until it breaks.
3) My son plays HyperG 18. He was breaking strings every week. But it gave him the predictable performance level for him to play his matches. You need to decide the balance point. When going to a hybrid NG, I found that my string job would last longer and I'm cutting the cost by sharing it with a (cheaper) poly cross. So it wasn't so bad. Think of how much physical therapy costs you. I wouldn't let cost be the sole driver. If you can afford lessons, you can afford NG.
4) You will not get HyperG level spin. You can get the control. Power is tunable.

If you are not already a high level player, it may benefit you greatly to tone down some of the "performance" of your strings to work on your strokes. I went from full poly, to poly/sgut hybrid, to full sgut, back to poly/sgut hybrid, full bed of a low powered multi (Velocity), NG/Cream(soft poly) hybrid to hybrid Velocity/Cream.

I now have the comfort I need.
I have the control.
I'm working on my form to get nearly the same level of spin.
I get at least double the duration on a stringjob.
My stringjob is cheap.

It took some time to dial in everything. But I'm pretty content.

1st of all, ty for this excellent reply...
50% more is quite alot.
And don't get me wrong, i can afford NG. It's not like if i decide to go NG i have to go live under the bridge because i spend all my money on strings...
It's just me trying to figure out if we're talking about 100$ more at the end of the year or 500$ more at the end of the year. (Hypothetical numbers ofc...)
I would probably be able to cough out the 500$ at the end of the year. Explaining it to my wife is a different matter though!!!

Either way, your reply was top notch and was the type of answer i was looking for.
I certainly have something to think about now that's for sure...

Thx alot

 

[Tiaxx]

Go up in gauge, i.e. use 16 Ga or thicker. Switching to 16x20 will not help that much unless the center is very dense.

OP: Thank you for the extra info. Since you break Hyper G in 9-15 hours, you are fine. There's a Hyper G thread where a kid restrings his Hyper G before 12 hours. Your game is spin based per your video. NG will not last any longer than your current Hyper G. And you will have less spin if you use a shaped poly as a cross. Switching the NG/poly will not materially extend your string bed life. In fact, your poly is going to die anyway within 8-12 hours anyway, whether used as full bed or as a cross. If you are willing to experiment, check out the Kevlar/ZX thread since that is a durable and long lived hybrid combo. 3¢

Thx alot for the reply. Really appreciate it.