Questions for Seles Fans

[Warriorroger]

Getting sick and tired of the Seles - Graf discussion. I wouldn't mind giving Seles the edge if fans would come up with answers, instead of posting stats of 19 year old Seles and an old Chris Evert quote (she changed her mind later on during the Hall of Fame induction of Graf)

Seles fans, I hope you take the challenge and answer my questions, 1 by 1.

Question one
How is it possible that Seles stays away for 2.5 years, wins the first tournament she enters, reaches the final of the first grandslam year she enters?

Question two
How come that after losing the final, you guys say that she isn't in the best of shape? (I think you are pretty good when you reach a final after a 2.5 year absence)

Question three
When did Monica dominate Graf?

I have looked it up for you"

1989:3 matches: Graf won all 3 (winner is Steffi Graf) 3 - 0 Graf
1990:2 matches: Seles won all 2 (winner is Monica Seles) 3 - 2 Graf
1991: 2 matches: Graf won all 2 (winner is Steffi Graf) 5 - 2 Graf (Seles peak year by your stats!!!!!)
1992: 2 matches: tie 1 - 1 (no winner) 6 - 3 Graf
1993: 1 match: Monica won match (winner Monica Seles) 6 - 4 Graf
1995: 1 match: Steffi won match (winner Steffi Graf) 7 - 4 Graf
1996: 1 match: Steffi won match (winner Steffi Graf) 8 - 4 Graf
1998: 1 match: Steffi won match (winner Steffi Graf) 9 -4 Graf
1999: 2 matches: tie 1 - 1 (no winner) 10 - 5 Graf

Question 04
Who is older Steffi or Monica?

Question 05
Let us say that Steffi is 5/6 years older. How come she could still be a contender at an older age than Monica, who is such a great player if I beleive you guys?

If the fans can up with answers to my questions instead of the:
stats of matches and the chris evert quote, they wil get my greatest respect.

 

[Warriorroger]

I rest my case

 

[Joe Pike]

Getting sick and tired of the Seles - Graf discussion. I wouldn't mind giving Seles the edge if fans would come up with answers, instead of posting stats of 19 year old Seles and an old Chris Evert quote (she changed her mind later on during the Hall of Fame induction of Graf)

Seles fans, I hope you take the challenge and answer my questions, 1 by 1.

Question one
How is it possible that Seles stays away for 2.5 years, wins the first tournament she enters, reaches the final of the first grandslam year she enters? ...

She was in peak mental and physical shape. Only Graf could stop her. In 1992 and 1993 Seles won U.S. Open but didn't face Graf (who lost in earlier rounds).

Seles deteriorated from 1997 on though. 1991 until 1996 were her best years. Sadly she didn't play for 2 years in between.

 

[Warriorroger]

All the 1995 and onward slams won by either of them, Monica or Steffi, were won fair and square. Had Monica not returned the discussion was legitimate, because then we would have never known. Monica choose to return and no one would have expected her to win grand slams right away, but she reached the final of the first grand slam she enters, shows what a talent she is. Had she been more fit, she might have won, who knows. In 1996 and onwards no excuses can be made anymore. Monica was younger than Steffi, still Steffi won almost all the major tournaments. So, I don't understand the discussion anymore. Monica had every chance of gaining up, she is almost 5 years younger than Steffi. Don't give me that crap that she never recovered. She was still young in 1996 and should have won more majors.

Just explain to me that the older more injured Graf was still winning the big ones and Monica did not.

 

[Joe Pike]

All the 1995 and onward slams won by either of them, Monica or Steffi, were won fair and square. Had Monica not returned the discussion was legitimate, because then we would have never known. Monica choose to return and no one would have expected her to win grand slams right away, but she reached the final of the first grand slam she enters, shows what a talent she is. Had she been more fit, she might have won, who knows. In 1996 and onwards no excuses can be made anymore. Monica was younger than Steffi, still Steffi won almost all the major tournaments. So, I don't understand the discussion anymore. Monica had every chance of gaining up, she is almost 5 years younger than Steffi. Don't give me that crap that she never recovered. She was still young in 1996 and should have won more majors.

Just explain to me that the older more injured Graf was still winning the big ones and Monica did not.

Yes, Seles was out of the game for more than 2 years and Graf raked up many slams (six, IIRC).
But Graf retired in 1999 when Seles was only 25 years old. She had a Graf-free world in front of her. And what did she do? Letting herself humiliated by the likes of Hingis, Davenport, Williams sisters - no-one of them will be called one of the greatest ever in 20 or 30 years.

So we can conclude that Graf was there when the occasion come and that Seles blew her chances. Wait, that would be unfair to say. No, she didn't have the abilities to profit from Graf's career end (which was cause by injury, BTW).

I think this whole Graf/Seles discussion is ridiculous. Graf is recognized as the greatest player ever and Seles was a tough opponent of hers for some years, maybe the toughest after Navratilova. Seles can tell her grandchildren that she played the great Graf and even was better than her for some years in the world rankings!

 

[Warriorroger]

Yes, Seles was out of the game for more than 2 years and Graf raked up many slams (six, IIRC).
But Graf retired in 1999 when Seles was only 25 years old. She had a Graf-free world in front of her. And what did she do? Letting herself humiliated by the likes of Hingis, Davenport, Williams sisters - no-one of them will be called one of the greatest ever in 20 or 30 years.

So we can conclude that Graf was there when the occasion come and that Seles blew her chances. Wait, that would be unfair to say. No, she didn't have the abilities to profit from Graf's career end (which was cause by injury, BTW).

I think this whole Graf/Seles discussion is ridiculous. Graf is recognized as the greatest player ever and Seles was a tough opponent of hers for some years, maybe the toughest after Navratilova. Seles can tell her grandchildren that she played the great Graf and even was better than her for some years in the world rankings!

You're right! Still hope that a Monica Seles will take the time to answer the questions. They are both great players though. This discussion will probably last forever.

 

[Joe Pike]

You're right! Still hope that a Monica Seles will take the time to answer the questions. They are both great players though. This discussion will probably last forever.

I don't think so.

I will rage on in the U.S. for some years maybe (Seles being a citizen). In Europe it is forgotten already ...

 

[MikeMcKenzie]

GRAF LOST TO COETZER MANY TIMES.....enough said

 

[Warriorroger]

GRAF LOST TO COETZER MANY TIMES.....enough said

mmm yeah

Their head to head is 11 - 4

In 1997 Amanda won four times, even a 6-0 6-1 vicotory, she was a better player than before, but Graf was coming from a knee surgery. Doesn't matter if Steffi couldn't beat hear, she shouldn't have played, so thoe victories are real. From 1997 on they only met once officially and Graf won that 6-3 - 6-0.

Overal 11 -4 , yeah she lost many times

 

[arnz]

Does that mean Coetzer > Graf? Or Nalbandian > Federer? They both have winning records against the greatest, so by that logic they must be greater?

 

[Warriorroger]

One more fact the head to head compared

Martina Navratilova: Seles (7 - 10) Graf (8 - 8 )
Martina Hingis: Seles (15 - 5) Graf (2 - 7)
Lindsay Davenport: Seles (10 - 3) Graf (6 - 8 )
Jana Novotna: Seles (4 - 4) Graf (4 - 29)
Gabriela Sabatini: (3 - 11) Graf (11 - 29)
Arantxa Sancez: (3 - 20) Graf (8 - 28 )
Serena Williams: (4 - 1) Graf (1 - 1)
Venus Williams: (9 - 1) Graf (2 - 3)

Head to head Seles - Graf 5 - 10

 

[BaselDazzle]

Man, I can't wait for williams planet and wtzplayerz/grandslamchamp/tennisballz to join this discussion.

Wariorroger, I know you started this thread a while back, but if you're sick of the Seles/Graf debate, don't start a thread on it. Anything with Seles'(or Graf's for that matter) name in it is guaranteed to turn into a troll-fest, even though your posts are non-inflammatory (kudos for that).

 

[Warriorroger]

Does that mean Coetzer > Graf? Or Nalbandian > Federer? They both have winning records against the greatest, so by that logic they must be greater?

Coetzer doesn't have a winning record.

What people seem to forget, that the one player who gave Steffi trouble, was Sabatini and Navratilova. Not Seles. Roger Federer has the same with Nadal, Nadal will beat Roger on clay. And I know the stabbing took a lot of ''who knows what would have happened'' away. But Seles was 5 years youngers and she lost to an aging injured Graf who did better gainst the new generation.


A lot of fans don't realise that Steffi was good in 1990-1992, but she was having form trouble, her forehand was predictable and the slice was becoming less effective. Seles exploited that. In 1993, being number 2, of course she still had to beat the competition Monica also had to beat if she was there. So if one say that the slams are hollow, so are Monica's, becuase the majority of her peak years when not won against Graf. Why would Monica be in her peak at 19. Graf was at her peak in 1995-6, playing wiht a better rcket and coach.

 

[fererrodf]

I'm both their fans. Seles was more dominant 91-92 - no doubt! That's about it.
She came back and won the Canadian Open , wa the finalist of US Open only losing to Graf. Won 96 Aus Open - give her credit- diid very well, i must say.

Don't give me all the stats when she was stabbed and out of the pro circuit ( seen too many, no point).

Like seles a lot, but still, you can't simply use that as an excuse and say she was robbed of those year (move on).

Like it or not (seles' fans), she was stabbed (that was the bottom line).

I like her. She was the one who introduced power on both sides and was precise. Like what she did and i do hope she comes back next year. Really do miss her but it's about time we stop the stats when she was stabbed. Like I say, she was the one to beat 91/92 (that's about it). Grow up.....

By the way, I like both of them.

 

[Warriorroger]

Man, I can't wait for williams planet and wtzplayerz/grandslamchamp/tennisballz to join this discussion.

Wariorroger, I know you started this thread a while back, but if you're sick of the Seles/Graf debate, don't start a thread on it. Anything with Seles'(or Graf's for that matter) name in it is guaranteed to turn into a troll-fest, even though your posts are non-inflammatory (kudos for that).

Thanks for the advice, but it is like pretzls, I 'don't like them, but I keep on eating them. I don't know why I keep posting, it's a little fire I can't resist: whenever I read that old Evert quote or the best of 15 tournaments numbers, you're right I will try to keep out

 

[jhhachamp]

I really hope Joe Pike is not a new user name for warriorroger. I could be wrong, but it seems that every single one of his posts defends warriorroger. We already have a Seles fanatic posting under at least 3 different user names trying to make himself sound like people agree with him. I really hope Warriorroger has not created a new user name to fight the Seles fanatic by using the same pathetic strategy of adopting multiple user names.

 

[Warriorroger]

I really hope Joe Pike is not a new user name for warriorroger. I could be wrong, but it seems that every single one of his posts defends warriorroger. We already have a Seles fanatic posting under at least 3 different user names trying to make himself sound like people agree with him. I really hope Warriorroger has not created a new user name to fight the Seles fanatic by using the same pathetic strategy of adopting multiple user names.

no no, we are not the same, don't worry! LOL

 

[Joe Pike]

I really hope Joe Pike is not a new user name for warriorroger. ....

Wow, you did you find out?