Racquet reviews: just tell me how it feels

[maxpotapov]

Here’s why many racquet reviews I read on TW make little sense to me: people discuss at length racquet’s performance – how it volleys, how it serves etc., and give too little detail on how it actually feels. The thing is, most playtesters can adapt their technique to almost any racquet, some of them can adapt (customize) any racquet to their technique, but no one can change fundamental characteristics of the frame, such as flexibility, layup, material density etc. And this is the most important information for those who read about racquet before demoing it. I mean, how helpful is it for me to know if you hit incredible ground strokes or volley with this particular racquet if I have no idea what your technique is? Maybe if I meet playtesters in person and watch video review, I will get some idea of how racquet would perform in my case, but then again – I can adapt my technique or customize the frame to make it work for me… if I like how it feels (sounds, flexes, vibrates, its sweet zone/dead zone, if it is thick/solid or hollow, firm/crisp or soft/mushy, quick through the air, etc. etc.).

Therefore, my petition to all TW reviewers: just tell me more how racquet feels, with different string setup and/or customization. :!: :?:

 

[Devilito]

lol i agree. Nothing like seeing racquet reviews along the line of, "this racquet is good for spin"

 

[TennisMaverick]

Here’s why many racquet reviews I read on TW make little sense to me: people discuss at length racquet’s performance – how it volleys, how it serves etc., and give too little detail on how it actually feels. The thing is, most playtesters can adapt their technique to almost any racquet, some of them can adapt (customize) any racquet to their technique, but no one can change fundamental characteristics of the frame, such as flexibility, layup, material density etc. And this is the most important information for those who read about racquet before demoing it. I mean, how helpful is it for me to know if you hit incredible ground strokes or volley with this particular racquet if I have no idea what your technique is? Maybe if I meet playtesters in person and watch video review, I will get some idea of how racquet would perform in my case, but then again – I can adapt my technique or customize the frame to make it work for me… if I like how it feels (sounds, flexes, vibrates, its sweet zone/dead zone, if it is thick/solid or hollow, firm/crisp or soft/mushy, quick through the air, etc. etc.).

Therefore, my petition to all TW reviewers: just tell me more how racquet feels, with different string setup and/or customization. :!: :?:

I've said that tons of times.

It's about the inherent qualities of the racquet, STUPID! Not how it relates to what you like.

I hope all is well with you and the family!

 

[TennisMD]

Here’s why many racquet reviews I read on TW make little sense to me: people discuss at length racquet’s performance – how it volleys, how it serves etc., and give too little detail on how it actually feels. The thing is, most playtesters can adapt their technique to almost any racquet, some of them can adapt (customize) any racquet to their technique, but no one can change fundamental characteristics of the frame, such as flexibility, layup, material density etc. And this is the most important information for those who read about racquet before demoing it. I mean, how helpful is it for me to know if you hit incredible ground strokes or volley with this particular racquet if I have no idea what your technique is? Maybe if I meet playtesters in person and watch video review, I will get some idea of how racquet would perform in my case, but then again – I can adapt my technique or customize the frame to make it work for me… if I like how it feels (sounds, flexes, vibrates, its sweet zone/dead zone, if it is thick/solid or hollow, firm/crisp or soft/mushy, quick through the air, etc. etc.).

Therefore, my petition to all TW reviewers: just tell me more how racquet feels, with different string setup and/or customization. :!: :?:

The TW review team does a good job, but remember they are selling rkts, so you have to read the language itself, in it people like Chris will talk about feels solid, buttery feel could whip the ball through the strike zone. All of these comments are related to the intrinsic qualities of the rkt. So factoring in all of these issues and also their playing style and level of play can be very helpful in my opinion

 

[dParis]

The TW review team does a good job, but remember they are selling rkts, so you have to read the language itself, in it people like Chris will talk about feels solid, buttery feel could whip the ball through the strike zone. All of these comments are related to the intrinsic qualities of the rkt. So factoring in all of these issues and also their playing style and level of play can be very helpful in my opinion

^^^ What TMD said. Remember, TW is marketing racquets. For the stuff you are looking for, I don't know if there's a better place to find it than right here, in the "Talk Tennis" Racquets forum.

 

[movdqa]

The TW playtesters try the frames out for a month (I believe) and play around with strings, lead tape, etc. so their impressions are a lot better than one with a two to five hour playtest. Some racquets that I've moved to have taken one to three months to get a comfortable setup with. My approach is to buy on spec and then modify the racquet to where I like it. I can probably play with anything that is not too stiff.

 

[maxpotapov]

2TennisMaverick: thanks, we're doing great! Inherent qualities - this is the right word (adding to my vocabulary)

2Devilito: yeah, "the racquet is good for spin" always leaves me wondering if racquet has some unusual qualities that make it good for spin, other than open string pattern or certain balance or...??? (always hurts my brain)

2TennisMD: intrinsic - another word for my vocabulary. I agree TW team does a great job, especially now that they added "meet the team" and video reviews. But this is the structure and logic of their written review that everyone now immitates that puts too much emphasis on "how racquet does player's job" (like putting spin on the ball etc.).

2dParis: like I said ^^^ people on Talk Tennis tend to follow TW reviewers logic, telling mostly of how racquet behaves in different situations (from the baseline, at the net, serve etc.)

2movdga: buying on spec is too tricky and expensive, not all RA 63 ratings are equally stiff on impact and then there is a perception of firmness or plushness or metallic feel which no amount of customization can change. That's why I'm reading reviews!

 

[movdqa]

I read the reviews too and form opinions from them too.

I think that customization, including strings, can have a huge impact but I'm willing to go well over 13 ounces. I have some frames at 17 ounces and any harshness that was ever there is gone at that weight. You can hit the ball with any part of the frame and feel nothing.

 

[maxpotapov]

I have some frames at 17 ounces and any harshness that was ever there is gone at that weight. You can hit the ball with any part of the frame and feel nothing.

:shock: I'm sure I would feel nothing after I hit with 17 ounces bat - my hand will go numb or will be torn from my shoulder

Too bad I'm too paranoid to mess with lead now that I have 2 years old in my house, so no over 13 ounces frames for me

 

[movdqa]

17 ounces is not so bad if the swingweight is reasonable.

I wondered why silver wasn't considered a material for weighting racquets back when it was $4 an ounce. The price is crazy high today.

 

[maxpotapov]

17 ounces is not so bad if the swingweight is reasonable.

I wondered why silver wasn't considered a material for weighting racquets back when it was $4 an ounce. The price is crazy high today.

wait, is silver flexible and sticky like lead? :lol:
Actually, I checked the prices, it is just $30+ per ounce, I can definitely afford some silver tape!
And then I checked periodic table, it would take twice the amount of silver tape compared to lead. Just another layer or two, no problem other than aerodynamics
Gold would be the perfect choice, same weight as lead, great investment too

 

[movdqa]

If you like gold, you would like platinum even more. It is rarer than gold but currently selling at a discount to gold. Platinum eagles are less liquid and much harder to find compared to gold eagles but they are nice to have in a collection.

 

[maxpotapov]

If you like gold, you would like platinum even more. It is rarer than gold but currently selling at a discount to gold. Platinum eagles are less liquid and much harder to find compared to gold eagles but they are nice to have in a collection.

Well, I can put platinum eagle in the butt cap, but how do I make platinum tape to counterbalance it?
OK, I derailed my thread already

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

I think the best way to approach the TW reviews is to try to figure out which play tester you most identify with. For me, that's Chris. A classic example for me was the Dunlop Bio 200 test where everything Chris says gels with my own experience as opposed to Spencer and Troy who have different experiences. I have since tried other frames and the same holds, I tend to agree with Chris.

I guess that makes a certain sense as his game is more like mine than any of the other playtesters, although I don't know if this is a co-incidence or not! It may simply be that we like the same kind of tennis racquets...

Anyway, that's what I suggest, do a bit of research and see if you can identify the playtester who best 'fits' you and your game.

 

[movdqa]

I haven't found any playtesters that play my style or type in racquets though there's a little bit in each player that I like. It seems that there are far more players on these boards that use 12.6 ounce and up frames than there are preferences for those on the TW review team.

They have stated that they can't use heavy racquets for regular playing as this would interfere with play-testing; which I would understand. However, it would be nice to have a playtester that uses a K88, BLX 90 or some other heavy racquet doing specific tests of other heavy frames.

------------

I lined up gold and platinum eagles against a 4 5/8 buttcap and I don't think that you could fit one in there. You definitely wouldn't be able to fit a silver eagle in there.

 

[SirGounder]

This is why I tend to just read the overall impression section of reviews. I really don't care if it serves well or volleys well. I just want to know how it feels as a whole.

 

[baek57]

This is why you should demo it yourself. Even if someone tells you how it feels, your perception will be different from theirs anyway.

 

[galain]

Feel is such a subjective thing to try and explain - I think that's why it's better to stick with the frame's playing qualities as the backbone of any review.

In saying that, I agree with Max - feel is what will make me decide on a stick above any other factor - but I do think it's hard to convey with any consistency.

I've heard people on this board describe sticks like the POG as soft and flexible - two words I'd never use for the feel of that stick. I was really enjoying one of the TW reviews (can't remember which one) and Granville was really enthusiastic about the stick, before he likened the feel to his KFactor 95 - which completely killed the review for me. It could wel lhave felt totally different had I gone ahead and tested the stick - but I know from my own experience, I would never be happy with a stick that felt like the KFactor 95.

I'm all for the reviewers commenting on feel, but it's probably not the most objective quality to focus on in giving us the information.

 

[maxpotapov]

Feel is such a subjective thing to try and explain - I think that's why it's better to stick with the frame's playing qualities as the backbone of any review.

In saying that, I agree with Max - feel is what will make me decide on a stick above any other factor - but I do think it's hard to convey with any consistency.

I've heard people on this board describe sticks like the POG as soft and flexible - two words I'd never use for the feel of that stick. I was really enjoying one of the TW reviews (can't remember which one) and Granville was really enthusiastic about the stick, before he likened the feel to his KFactor 95 - which completely killed the review for me. It could wel lhave felt totally different had I gone ahead and tested the stick - but I know from my own experience, I would never be happy with a stick that felt like the KFactor 95.

I'm all for the reviewers commenting on feel, but it's probably not the most objective quality to focus on in giving us the information.

Compared to K95 with 69RA, POG might feel like soft and flexible, especially OS version
But man, it is so firm/hard on impact, and Prince carries this firmness throughout Graphite/19 mm line, EXO3 included. Good example that flex does not tell the whole story.

Back to the point - commenting on feel is absolutely subjective, but can be backed up by objective info, like specs of the frame, type and tension of the string, and comparison to other well known frames (this is where What plays like a... feature is really helpful).
I know it is easier to put words together about playing qualities of the racquet as a basic structure of the review, but I've read enough reviews (especially on Talk Tennis) with little or no information besides this basic structure (Groundstrokes, Serve, Volley, Serve Returns).
I respect TW playtesters work ethics, when they use like a month to form an expert opinion on racquet's performance, but then it makes more sense to tell how it influenced your game when you switched to a new frame for extended period of time, rather than how it is tailored to your likes/dislikes.

 

[RyKnocks]

Example 1: I feel that my Radical MP is very solid and mute. Many others think it's very hollow and stiff feeling.

Example 2: Many people think the Volkl PB10 Mid is a super plush and comfortable racquet while I think it's very harsh and attributed to a shoulder injury.

Example 3: Many people feel that the EXO Tour 100 is a very plush and flexy racquet while I think it feels very hollow and has a lot of vibration.

The point is, you may not agree with the majority vote and vice versa. Like others have said, find a tester that you can best identify with and take their word for it, or demo the racquets before you commit to buying. The reviews here are merely a stepping stone to your final purchase, not the final word.

 

[TennisMD]

2TennisMaverick: thanks, we're doing great! Inherent qualities - this is the right word (adding to my vocabulary)

2Devilito: yeah, "the racquet is good for spin" always leaves me wondering if racquet has some unusual qualities that make it good for spin, other than open string pattern or certain balance or...??? (always hurts my brain)

2TennisMD: intrinsic - another word for my vocabulary. I agree TW team does a great job, especially now that they added "meet the team" and video reviews. But this is the structure and logic of their written review that everyone now immitates that puts too much emphasis on "how racquet does player's job" (like putting spin on the ball etc.).

2dParis: like I said ^^^ people on Talk Tennis tend to follow TW reviewers logic, telling mostly of how racquet behaves in different situations (from the baseline, at the net, serve etc.)

2movdga: buying on spec is too tricky and expensive, not all RA 63 ratings are equally stiff on impact and then there is a perception of firmness or plushness or metallic feel which no amount of customization can change. That's why I'm reading reviews!

We agree you have to discard comments that claim the rkt does things only the player can do such as your example putting spin on the ball. That why I said read their words such as whips through the ball for that commentator he is saying the rkt allow him to do more things in a more capable fashion, not that it can make you make the shot. Comments on feel again very subjective but after reading alot of the reviews you know what they are implying. So it is tricky to ascertain what is the best source. For me it is a combo of many things, the reviews, TW University, and the forums and most important is the demo, I agree it takes more than a week to know if you really have the right rkt,but in some instances it can rule a rkt right out, for example if you go into the demo knowing what you want over what you have this should be readily apparent and if it is not you are having to work to hard to make the rkt fit and it won"t. This is where marketing can be detrimental, eg it is the hot rkt because a pro you emulate plays with it so you try and make it fit you. In other words do not buy on emotion. The only way I would deviate from this rule is arm injuries you may love and play bet with a stiff rkt but if it continually hurts you then you need to make another rkt fit, as this is a game of a lifetime.
So enjoy your experimentation and have fun with the game

 

[maxpotapov]

The only way I would deviate from this rule is arm injuries you may love and play bet with a stiff rkt but if it continually hurts you then you need to make another rkt fit, as this is a game of a lifetime.

That's exactly what should be emphasized more than anything: how arm friendly the racquet is, instead of talking all the time how it performs. Unless I'm a touring pro, this is all I'm concerned about: my comfort and health. And even touring pros, most of them use more flexible custom frames, rather than lightweight harsh retail bats. They don't have time to adjust their technique to every new racquet that comes to market (therefore they use paintjobs), but I have all the time in the world - just give me something that feels good and works good for my body, and I will learn how to play with it.

So, I would add to my opening question, "Just tell me how it feels for you and your elbow/wrist/shoulder"