Rafa's road to the 2010 Wimbledon title

[NatF]

Nadal, Borg, Kuerten, Lendl are the only ones I would definitely put above them and maybe Wilander too. Bruguera and Courier are in the conversation of course but I don't think 1 extra RG makes up for Fed/Djok's better consistency and the nadal factor. Although I think on peak clay level Fed can stand up to Kuerten or Lendl and above Wilander. I'm one of the nice ones though. I tend to fall more on the side of "nadal screwed them" more than "the only reason they got to all the finals was the weak clay field". Both are true to some extent. But I do think it is insane to put Muster or Vilas above them for example. Courier has the peak level to hang with them, his RG peak was better than Djokovic's and similar to Fed's. I don't think Bruguera has the same top level. Vilas faced the same quandary they did except he never even came close to beating Borg on clay besides when Borg was 18.

So in short I think the top 4 is Nadal, Borg, Lendl, Kuerten in that order but after that there is a lot of room for debate between Wilander, Federer, Djokovic, Courier, Bruguera. Muster and Vilas are next and I think a guy like Ferrero belongs there too.

Appearing high on the list of best dirtballers is helped by the fact that so few of the games greats have prioritised it like grass - and by extention the quicker HC's at the USO.

 

[metsman]

Yeah, man, I could never understand the position that Nadal's victory over Roger at Wimbledon 09 would've been guaranteed.

Nadal in 2008 was playing his best tennis on grass, never reached that level again and he barely won the Wimbledon final, only after five sets. Gulbis pushed him to the limits in the second round as well.
He also had extremely tough matches at Queens and a mentally fragile Djokovic in the final who was a break up in both sets (not trying to diminish Nadal's success, just to state the obvious - even in his best year, he really struggled on that surface).

Assuming that he would have won the tournament in 2009, had he entered, was a pure speculation without any significant argument. Would really love to see him beating Hewitt, Roddick, Murray and extremely confident Roger in the final. He would have to repeat his performances from 2008 and even that might not be enough.

I agree with most of the post but it's important to remember that not everyone can be Federer on grass or Nadal on clay and win entire tournaments on natural surfaces without breaking a sweat. On natural surfaces it is common to be pushed and lose sets to an in form or hot player because of the nature of the game played on them. So I wouldn't say Rafa struggled on grass in 08...it was smooth sailing for the most part. 08 Queens is nothing...Fed routinely struggled at Halle right after clay season too.

 

[TheFifthSet]

How did this turn from Nadal's road to 2010 Wimbledon to Open Era clay greats?

Sigh, yeah, can't say I didn't do my part to derail the thread either

Sry Rafs @Rafa the King

 

[helterskelter]

My view is that Wilander's peak level on clay was higher than Lendl's, but Lendl was more consistent.

Nadal, Borg, Kuerten, Lendl are the only ones I would definitely put above them and maybe Wilander too. Bruguera and Courier are in the conversation of course but I don't think 1 extra RG makes up for Fed/Djok's better consistency and the nadal factor. Although I think on peak clay level Fed can stand up to Kuerten or Lendl and above Wilander. I'm one of the nice ones though. I tend to fall more on the side of "nadal screwed them" more than "the only reason they got to all the finals was the weak clay field". Both are true to some extent. But I do think it is insane to put Muster or Vilas above them for example. Courier has the peak level to hang with them, his RG peak was better than Djokovic's and similar to Fed's. I don't think Bruguera has the same top level. Vilas faced the same quandary they did except he never even came close to beating Borg on clay besides when Borg was 18.

So in short I think the top 4 is Nadal, Borg, Lendl, Kuerten in that order but after that there is a lot of room for debate between Wilander, Federer, Djokovic, Courier, Bruguera. Muster and Vilas are next and I think a guy like Ferrero belongs there too.

 

[metsman]

Appearing high on the list of best dirtballers is helped by the fact that so few of the games greats have prioritised it like grass - and by extention the quicker HC's at the USO.

Wouldn't necessarily say that. Of the Tier 1 ATG only Sampras never gave a crap about clay and that's because it made no sense for him to given the circumstances. Tier 2, probably more true as

I mean let's not forget that Federer changed his game and added more spin just to win RG and combat Rafa. He was obsessed with it in the 06-08 period and honestly it probably cost him slams at the other majors down the line ironically enough.

 

[Sysyphus]

Past a certain point on Saturday night, a distinct conclusion inevitably presents itself: browsing through TTW is more enjoyable after a particular mild level of intoxication.

Another conclusion presents itself at the same time: others have taken this maxim to heart as well.

 

[NatF]

Wouldn't necessarily say that. Of the Tier 1 ATG only Sampras never gave a crap about clay and that's because it made no sense for him to given the circumstances. Tier 2, probably more true as

I mean let's not forget that Federer changed his game and added more spin just to win RG and combat Rafa. He was obsessed with it in the 06-08 period and honestly it probably cost him slams at the other majors down the line ironically enough.

I wasn't talking about tier I was talking ATG's in general. Becker, Edberg, Sampras, Connors, McEnroe - all guys that specialised on quicker courts or skipped the FO in many years.

 

[metsman]

My view is that Wilander's peak level on clay was higher than Lendl's, but Lendl was more consistent.

They had very few meetings on clay considering they were two ATG in the same era, but for me the 87 RG was pretty much a peak for peak matchup and Lendl won in 4 competitive sets. Wilander was a better mover, but Lendl was still no slouch in that department and his ability to play offensive tennis while still being consistent is something Wilander did not have. His first serve was big too so I definitely consider him to have the higher peak level.

 

[metsman]

I wasn't talking about tier I was talking ATG's in general. Becker, Edberg, Sampras, Connors, McEnroe - all guys that specialised on quicker courts or skipped the FO in many years.

So that's about half the ATG then, little less, (and 3 of them were American). About what you would expect. Still many of the ATG did focus on clay and made winning the FO a priority. Nadal, Borg, Lendl, Wilander, Fed, Djokovic, Agassi(to a lesser extent but you can't say he didn't care about clay specifically, when he didn't care he didn't care about tennis period)

 

[NatF]

So that's about half the ATG then, little less, (and 3 of them were American). About what you would expect. Still many of the ATG did focus on clay and made winning the FO a priority. Nadal, Borg, Lendl, Wilander, Fed, Djokovic, Agassi(to a lesser extent but you can't say he didn't care about clay specifically, when he didn't care he didn't care about tennis period)

Half of them makes a significant difference when my point was that many of those players feature heavily on say grass all time lists etc...

 

[Rafa the King]

@metsman saying he would win Wimbledon 2009 is only if his knees don't give in and he manages to win RG that year, just too many ifs to say it would have happened.

 

[90's Clay]

Ridiculously good year. 3 slams on 3 different surfaces. Completely sick. Miss Prime Healthy Rafa.

 

[helterskelter]

They had very few meetings on clay considering they were two ATG in the same era, but for me the 87 RG was pretty much a peak for peak matchup and Lendl won in 4 competitive sets. Wilander was a better mover, but Lendl was still no slouch in that department and his ability to play offensive tennis while still being consistent is something Wilander did not have. His first serve was big too so I definitely consider him to have the higher peak level.

I posted that previous post quickly, but I actually don't really find the concept of "peak level" very useful. What I really meant is that I think Wilander had a lot more variety and a better tennis brain. Lendl certainly had more power, and so Wilander really had to be prepared to think very carefully about his tactics to stand a chance. But when he did, I think he could get the better of Lendl.

I wouldn't say Wilander was at his best in the 87 RG final.

 

[Druss]

It's really a shame that he couldn't play the 2009 tournament due to injury, as he won in 2008 & 2010. Someone took advantage of his setback, as usual.

So someone who made 10 finals at Wimbledon and one of those was a win in 2009, is 'lucky' to have won it because of someone else's apparent injury?

Interesting indeed!

 

[noobforehand20]

looking at that first round highlight against nishikori, i remember in the summer of 2010 when i went to the bolletieri academy, we were going to some court and the coach stopped to point out in that side court, there was a guy practicing there and the coach says that he recently played nadal in the first round of wimbledon, back then i didn't really care about that, i wasn't really wise back then, but now that i think of it i can't believe that i was a mere feet from kei nishikori before he became a big name and deepfully regret that i did not take more time to watch him there, only good thing i did was ask stepanek for an autograph

 

[lud]

Rafa in Wimbledon 2010
First thing that comes to mind is his medical time out against Petzchner. That was despicable by Nadal.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

2006 Final
2007 Final
2008 Champion
2009 DNP
2010 Champion
2011 Final

Chances are, he would have made a huge run for Wimbledon 2009. During his prime on grass, he was a huge force. Definitely underrated and forgotten by some due to his last few years.

His draw to the title would have been inform Hewitt, inform Roddick, inform Murray and inform Federer. I highly doubt he beats four high caliber grass court players in a row. As soon as he saw that draw, he pulled out, prompting inform Del Potro to take his place, who was schooled by Hewitt.