Rant about some mofo wanting to change my forehand stroke...

J

jz000

Semi-Pro
So after like 5 hours of tennis today, this guy wanted to rally some with me.
It was a good session... I got my 1H back hand stroke good vs his flat balls yay (this year I'm gonna work on 1hbh no slicing loll)

Anyway, after the session, he's like "your forehand is big and loopy, you should consider a more compact stroke for returning fast balls". He starts to show me Federer's stroke, and tells me that he has Fed's stroke.

Now to protect my own stroke that I'm working on, I go to tell him that he doesn't have Fed's stroke, and that my stroke is fine, and that I understand what I'm doing. We argue for about 15mins, about staying loose, wrist pronation, etc... which he doesn't have a clue about. Whatever.

At the end, I tell him that he's wrong to try to change my stroke, or anyone's for that matter. And he tried to deny it, blah blah, probably pissed I out rallied him or something, or that I helped him with his backhand because he was off balance, but he still wanted to be the know-it-all... who the **** knows.

Now I'm 30, looks like 23, and he's like 40ish. **** off man, I just wanna have fun, I'm not gonna listen to just anybody about stroke mechanics and let it all get into my head, (which is starting to).

Thx TT for reading.
tl;dr I wanna ****ing punch this guy lol.
 
S

scotus

G.O.A.T.
jz000 said:
So after like 5 hours of tennis today, this guy wanted to rally some with me.
It was a good session... I got my 1H back hand stroke good vs his flat balls yay (this year I'm gonna work on 1hbh no slicing loll)

Anyway, after the session, he's like "your forehand is big and loopy, you should consider a more compact stroke for returning fast balls". He starts to show me Federer's stroke, and tells me that he has Fed's stroke.

Now to protect my own stroke that I'm working on, I go to tell him that he doesn't have Fed's stroke, and that my stroke is fine, and that I understand what I'm doing. We argue for about 15mins, about staying loose, wrist pronation, etc... which he doesn't have a clue about. Whatever.

At the end, I tell him that he's wrong to try to change my stroke, or anyone's for that matter. And he tried to deny it, blah blah, probably pissed I out rallied him or something, or that I helped him with his backhand because he was off balance, but he still wanted to be the know-it-all... who the **** knows.

Now I'm 30, looks like 23, and he's like 40ish. **** off man, I just wanna have fun, I'm not gonna listen to just anybody about stroke mechanics and let it all get into my head, (which is starting to).

Thx TT for reading.
tl;dr I wanna ****ing punch this guy lol.
Click to expand...

Here at Talk Tennis, we don't punch someone for offering unsolicited advice or for being full of himself.

Now if he put his bag on the bench, then yes, you should have punched him into oblivion.
 
dct693

dct693

Semi-Pro
If you're having fun, just keep doing it. That guy obviously wasn't enjoying himself without trying to make himself feel superior in some way.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
jz000 said:
So after like 5 hours of tennis today, this guy wanted to rally some with me.
It was a good session... I got my 1H back hand stroke good vs his flat balls yay (this year I'm gonna work on 1hbh no slicing loll)

Anyway, after the session, he's like "your forehand is big and loopy, you should consider a more compact stroke for returning fast balls". He starts to show me Federer's stroke, and tells me that he has Fed's stroke.

Now to protect my own stroke that I'm working on, I go to tell him that he doesn't have Fed's stroke, and that my stroke is fine, and that I understand what I'm doing. We argue for about 15mins, about staying loose, wrist pronation, etc... which he doesn't have a clue about. Whatever.

At the end, I tell him that he's wrong to try to change my stroke, or anyone's for that matter. And he tried to deny it, blah blah, probably pissed I out rallied him or something, or that I helped him with his backhand because he was off balance, but he still wanted to be the know-it-all... who the **** knows.

Now I'm 30, looks like 23, and he's like 40ish. **** off man, I just wanna have fun, I'm not gonna listen to just anybody about stroke mechanics and let it all get into my head, (which is starting to).

Thx TT for reading.
tl;dr I wanna ****ing punch this guy lol.
Click to expand...
lol, i've been that guy (ie. giving unsolicited feedback - but for obvious stuff: (eg. don't stand in the alley when i'm serving... conti grip vs. frying pan for serving)... learned my lesson... now i never say a thing unless explicitly asked.

personally if he had done that to me... let's say i have a big loop... the convo would go something like this (especially if i'm out rallying him in a coop rally):
"you should change your big loop fh"
"why"
"to be more more fed-like"
"why do i want to be swiss?"
"because it takes less time to prep"
"but you don't hit that hard, so i have plenty of time to prep"
"..."
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
jz000 said:
So after like 5 hours of tennis today, this guy wanted to rally some with me.
It was a good session... I got my 1H back hand stroke good vs his flat balls yay (this year I'm gonna work on 1hbh no slicing loll)

Anyway, after the session, he's like "your forehand is big and loopy, you should consider a more compact stroke for returning fast balls". He starts to show me Federer's stroke, and tells me that he has Fed's stroke.

Now to protect my own stroke that I'm working on, I go to tell him that he doesn't have Fed's stroke, and that my stroke is fine, and that I understand what I'm doing. We argue for about 15mins, about staying loose, wrist pronation, etc... which he doesn't have a clue about. Whatever.

At the end, I tell him that he's wrong to try to change my stroke, or anyone's for that matter. And he tried to deny it, blah blah, probably pissed I out rallied him or something, or that I helped him with his backhand because he was off balance, but he still wanted to be the know-it-all... who the **** knows.

Now I'm 30, looks like 23, and he's like 40ish. **** off man, I just wanna have fun, I'm not gonna listen to just anybody about stroke mechanics and let it all get into my head, (which is starting to).

Thx TT for reading.
tl;dr I wanna ****ing punch this guy lol.
Click to expand...

Dude's probably hating his own life if he has to walk around telling people he's got "Federer's strokes".

Just humor him. Or bagel him.
 
Dartagnan64

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Rule number one of sports, unless it's a family member, never offer unsolicited advice.

Corollary to that is: Never offer advice about swing mechanics.

You can help people with tactics, set up and stance, but once they start swinging, there is little you can do with "tips" to change the mechanics. That requires very high level coaching, video analysis and a total makeover.

If someone is struggling and asks me for advice, I keep it simple. Many errors can come down to simple stuff like wrong grip, late prep, lifting head too early. Just give a few helpful reminders of things they've probably been told a thousand times before. Trying to get people to pronate through a stroke or concentrate on ISR or their racket drop is a recipe for disaster.

But I wouldn't have gotten mad at this guy, I'd have laughed myself silly as soon as he brought out the "I've got Federer's strokes." Only Federer has Federer's strokes and no two-bit-public-court-dwelling-rec player is ever going to come close.
 
J

jz000

Semi-Pro
I wasn't gonna let this guy get into my head about tweaking my strokes over and over...
I like my forehand, and maybe one day it will evolve into Fed's forehand, lul.

At the time, I felt like barking back at him was the best way to defend my stroke, and to gauge my confidence level of it.
I just hope his words won't sneak into my head after I miss a shot or two
So probably should've just gave him the finger and walked away lol.
 
user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Dartagnan64 said:
Rule number one of sports, unless it's a family member, never offer unsolicited advice.

Corollary to that is: Never offer advice about swing mechanics.

You can help people with tactics, set up and stance, but once they start swinging, there is little you can do with "tips" to change the mechanics. That requires very high level coaching, video analysis and a total makeover.
Click to expand...

But tactics, set ups, stances a lot of time really correlate with swing mechanics though. For instance, a lot of people don't know how to swing the racket when they are pulled off wide to one side, or the ball is slightly behind or parallel their body. On and on.

Imo, the op is too harsh on fellow recreational players. The thing about rec tennis is there's really no rule except for fun and many people think giving unasked for advices and arguing about them is fun. Apparently the OP is also the type that likes to engage in such activities. :)
 
Dartagnan64

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
user92626 said:
But tactics, set ups, stances a lot of time really correlate with swing mechanics though. For instance, a lot of people don't know how to swing the racket when they are pulled off wide to one side, or the ball is slightly behind or parallel their body. On and on.

:)
Click to expand...

Again I'm not talking high level foot work and tactics. Just keep it simple. Hold a conti grip to volley. Turn your shoulders early. Stay low or bend your knees. Focus on the contact point and don't lift your head too soon. Get to the net if you hit a nice deep return.
 
J

jz000

Semi-Pro
user92626 said:
But tactics, set ups, stances a lot of time really correlate with swing mechanics though. For instance, a lot of people don't know how to swing the racket when they are pulled off wide to one side, or the ball is slightly behind or parallel their body. On and on.

Imo, the op is too harsh on fellow recreational players. The thing about rec tennis is there's really no rule except for fun and many people think giving unasked for advices and arguing about them is fun. Apparently the OP is also the type that likes to engage in such activities. :)
Click to expand...

Naw man, there's unwritten rules to having fun while being a serious 4.0-5.0
This, I've discovered was one of them. Having experienced this, I will handle it better next time. Maybe it's more yelling back loll
 
Last edited:
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
jz000 said:
Shots fired.
Click to expand...

prevzia.jpg
 
user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
jz000 said:
Naw man, there's unwritten rules to having fun while being a serious 4.0-5.0
This, I've discovered was one of them. Having experienced this, I will handle it better next time. Maybe it's more yelling back loll
Click to expand...

Any kind of rules that players themselves bring to recreational parks tend to be the ones that create troubles. If you pay attention, the problem-free games are usually the ones where everyone shrugs off everything and anything!

I believe I'm very easy going but I tend to go into the opposition direction when other people start to pull out rules of their own. Example, "you cannot make noise or laff when we are about to hit. This (Sunday morning) game is very serious" "You hit the ball so you cannot call it out"...
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
jz000 said:
S"your forehand is big and loopy, you should consider a more compact stroke for returning fast balls".
Click to expand...

Do you disagree with this? Sounds like you guys started a pissing contest instead of sticking to orig subject
 
sredna42

sredna42

Hall of Fame
nytennisaddict said:
lol, i've been that guy (ie. giving unsolicited feedback - but for obvious stuff: (eg. don't stand in the alley when i'm serving... conti grip vs. frying pan for serving)... learned my lesson... now i never say a thing unless explicitly asked.
Click to expand...

Yeah, same.
You never mean it condescendingly or anything, just as well meant opinion that , but it only ever goes down like cold vomit. And fair enough. I find I don't like it either when people try to tell me things I know won't work for me, or it just comes off as them acting as though you are a dyslexic 3.0.

Best to just say nothing ever.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I walked past a MXDs match where the guy crossed to intercept a floater and netted the volley. The woman was not very happy, saying "that was my ball". The guy tried explaining how it was superior strategy but I suspect it fell on deaf ears.

I kept my mouth shut and kept walking. +1 for S&V-not_dead_yet.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
sredna42 said:
Yeah, same.
You never mean it condescendingly or anything, just as well meant opinion that , but it only ever goes down like cold vomit. And fair enough. I find I don't like it either when people try to tell me things I know won't work for me, or it just comes off as them acting as though you are a dyslexic 3.0.

Best to just say nothing ever.
Click to expand...
the guy that taught me this lesson went off on me,... "don't tell me how to f'ing play! stfu and play your game, and i'll play mine."
the guy was a 3.5 that was about to have a heart attack.
and we were playing two 3.5's that were having major issues returning my kicker...
i told him to stand toward the center to poach, vs. having 1 foot inside the doubles alley.
lesson learned.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
nytennisaddict said:
the guy that taught me this lesson went off on me,... "don't tell me how to f'ing play! stfu and play your game, and i'll play mine."
Click to expand...

Yup; future high-level doubles player he.

the guy was a 3.5 that was about to have a heart attack.
and we were playing two 3.5's that were having major issues returning my kicker...
i told him to stand toward the center to poach, vs. having 1 foot inside the doubles alley.
lesson learned.
Click to expand...

But I bet he never got passed down the line!
 
norcal

norcal

Legend
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Yup; future high-level doubles player he.



But I bet he never got passed down the line!
Click to expand...

Yeah I keep my mouth shut. It's hard though when something like this happens (fortunately rarely):

I'm playing with a weaker partner who does zero at net, just stands there. He is holding serve (imho) because I am active at net, going after attackable returns and generally getting in the returner's head - making them anxious on their returns.

I'm getting broken sometimes (partially my fault of course for not serving better) partially because my partner just stands there and the returner knows they can return cross court (or even middle-ish) all day long with no fear of a poach, even on a soft return. So the returner gets a good groove going.

So it's 3-4 and I'm going to serve and I'll say something like, "let's get this one!"

My partner responds, "hey, at least I'm holding my serve."

mad.gif
Hard to hold my tongue there...
 
P

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
nytennisaddict said:
the guy that taught me this lesson went off on me,... "don't tell me how to f'ing play! stfu and play your game, and i'll play mine."
the guy was a 3.5 that was about to have a heart attack.
and we were playing two 3.5's that were having major issues returning my kicker...
i told him to stand toward the center to poach, vs. having 1 foot inside the doubles alley.
lesson learned.
Click to expand...
Hand them some bagels and say "nice playing" at the end. lol.
If i am playing with somebody way above my level, i will try to learn as much as i can.
 
vex

vex

Legend
In all honestly OP, mostly likely neither you or the other guy know much about mechanics beyond your own strokes. Neither of you should give advice so don’t take him too seriously when he tries
 
jm1980

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
norcal said:
So it's 3-4 and I'm going to serve and I'll say something like, "let's get this one!"

My partner responds, "hey, at least I'm holding my serve."

mad.gif
Hard to hold my tongue there...
Click to expand...
You should say "maybe that's because I am not standing there like a potted plant when you serve"
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
norcal said:
Yeah I keep my mouth shut. It's hard though when something like this happens (fortunately rarely):

I'm playing with a weaker partner who does zero at net, just stands there. He is holding serve (imho) because I am active at net, going after attackable returns and generally getting in the returner's head - making them anxious on their returns.

I'm getting broken sometimes (partially my fault of course for not serving better) partially because my partner just stands there and the returner knows they can return cross court (or even middle-ish) all day long with no fear of a poach, even on a soft return. So the returner gets a good groove going.
Click to expand...

How about having him line up in I formation? That alone might result in some returner errors that otherwise wouldn't have happened. At least it gets him involved at the net [he may strenuously object, though].

So it's 3-4 and I'm going to serve and I'll say something like, "let's get this one!"

My partner responds, "hey, at least I'm holding my serve."

mad.gif
Hard to hold my tongue there...
Click to expand...

That's another mark of a low-level doubles player: one who thinks that holding serve is solely the result of the server.
 
F

Friedman Whip

Professional
norcal said:
Yeah I keep my mouth shut. It's hard though when something like this happens (fortunately rarely):

I'm playing with a weaker partner who does zero at net, just stands there. He is holding serve (imho) because I am active at net, going after attackable returns and generally getting in the returner's head - making them anxious on their returns.

I'm getting broken sometimes (partially my fault of course for not serving better) partially because my partner just stands there and the returner knows they can return cross court (or even middle-ish) all day long with no fear of a poach, even on a soft return. So the returner gets a good groove going.

So it's 3-4 and I'm going to serve and I'll say something like, "let's get this one!"

My partner responds, "hey, at least I'm holding my serve."

mad.gif
Hard to hold my tongue there...
Click to expand...
I assume that was the last time you ever played with that guy.

If my doubles partner makes a suggestion I will generally give it a try or two if it seems reasonable. If it doesn't I've found that it's best for me to just say 'yeah ok' and then play the way I think is best. If he's too persistent then we'll have to have a talk.
 
Last edited:
S

samarai

Semi-Pro
we all have terrible stroke mechanics, thats why its recreational tennis. Why would u argue with the guy for 15 minutes. Now if we are playing doubles and u have terrible court positioning or wnat to hit winners with every shot that comes to you, then yes im going to be throwing out some advice. I do notice that younger recreational players become very confrontational.
 
J

jz000

Semi-Pro
vex said:
In all honestly OP, mostly likely neither you or the other guy know much about mechanics beyond your own strokes. Neither of you should give advice so don’t take him too seriously when he tries
Click to expand...

"No I have Fed's stroke, watch... wait I can only do it standing still, I can't move like Federer."
 
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K

Kevo

Legend
I tend to refrain from offering advice on people's stroke mechanics unless they ask or are actually taking a lesson from me. I haven't had anyone offer up stroke advice to me in many years. I suspect this other gentleman noticed a real deficit in your stroke and was just trying to help. I could be wrong though. He could be one of those guys that swears he never foot faults even though he does it on every serve.

One sure way to not get offered advice about strokes is to bust out the old wood frame and proceed to fire winners past them with it. :)
 
winstonlim8

winstonlim8

Professional
Why not just tell him (sweetly!) that "When you can actually beat me, the you can tell me how to hit the ball."

Oh, and smile while you are doing it, too.
 
Morch Us

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
There is this old dirty trick for doubles tournaments, especially if the opponent doubles folks are clearly better than you both individually, and of similar level themself. It is to target one specific player, and make him look clearly worse than the other. If the opposition is not experienced enough playing together for some time, this is good enough to break the chemistry of the team, and hand over the match.

norcal said:
My partner responds, "hey, at least I'm holding my serve."
mad.gif
Hard to hold my tongue there...
Click to expand...
 
Morch Us

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
@jz000 first of all I would say that you own your strokes, and you are right that you should not change your strokes because of some random guy. Do whatever works for you, and dont fix it if it is not broken.

Now that being said, I totally believe the intent of the guy was not really that bad. He might have learned this new teaching from his kids coach or from internet video, and got thrilled by it and transferred that to you. So nothing really to rant about it. I think you just took it too personal, and took it as an insult.

Now to the point he might got excited about. In reality Federer is known to be the role model of this "linear" forehand with less circular loop. But it is not about no-racket-takeback or anything, you still swing with a loop, but the momentum is more linear. Watch this video FULL

But again, do not change your forehand, if the big loop works for you. It is a lot better than no-loop, and should be good enough for most of the rec-players.

jz000 said:
This is an example of a big loopy forehand:
Click to expand...
 
Hmgraphite1

Hmgraphite1

Hall of Fame
Good video , for me the key is, you start to rotating shoulders at Pat, the dog. This forces the racquet back and the wrist lag, he called it a Flip (wilson). But warning if you have a heavy racquet approach with caution cause your wrist will really get flipped back.
 
N

NLBwell

Legend
I don't talk to people about their tennis strokes unless its a paid lesson or they are friends/family and ask me to help.
 
Crocodile

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
I don't have a problem listening to other people's opinions and it doesn't mean you have to take it on board. Saying that compact and small loop is preferable to a large loopy technique for efficiency,
 
NuBas

NuBas

Legend
You need to find a different place to play, go somewhere where people can actually play and you won't find guys like this one. If it happens next time just tell him, I know my pro coach and I are working on it and then maybe he will just shut it.
 
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