Rant thread about combo league and state

[MRfStop]

and the crappy job that USTA does about allowing people who are well above what they rate themselves at. I already know that the things I am going to complain about are not going to change and I should just accept it and I should work on getting better etc.

This past 7.5 combo state there was a team from Dalton that had cleaned house. We had to play them the 5th match. We were tied for 1st and this match was the decider. My dad and I played a 4.0C and another guy who was self rated as a 3.5. The 4.0 was decent but the 3.5 was definitely on a different level. Hard serve, hard groundstrokes on both sides, great speed, decent movement, and decent volleys which all don't translate to a 3.5 level. He was in his 20s.

Looking back at the 3.5's 2017 seasons he only played mixed, combo, and tri-level and he went 15-1 in combo alone. The only loss was against two guys who are now 4.5s. He has 3 bagel sets in combo and 11 single game loss sets.

That was really discouraging because I played with my dad and went 2-4 overall and having to play against major sandbaggers that are getting away with it.

Is USTA ever going to clean this up or is this something that's going to continue on forever?

 

[brettatk]

I've played with several of those guys on the team you are talking about. I haven't ever met the 3.5 you are referring to though. Unfortunately that's how combo works these days. The teams that win are all at least a half a level if not more above what they are rated. Really sucks for those who are playing legit.

 

[JLyon]

there is a reason why these weekend tankers only play Combo and Mixed they never get a true rating and do not risk getting bumped unless a grievance can be filed or someone actually pays attention

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I thought having a self rated 3.5 who is actually 4.5 skill level was the only way to win 7.5 combo?

 

[ncgator]

I sent similar feedback to the Southern Section coordinator a few years ago, and he said they were considering establishing a Combo league rating similar to a Mixed rating, but since that hasn't happened, I don't think Southern has any plans to change.

 

[OrangePower]

All true, and I also know players who are underrated and only play combo since it's not going to get them bumped up.
But the flip side is, this is an opportunity to play very good players without harming your own rating!
So the bottom line for combo is don't get too caught up in making playoffs or whatever, and just enjoy playing high-level tennis.

 

[ncgator]

Agree. Not nearly as much "prestige" winning combo sectionals as adult league sectionals that advances to nationals. Combo league started years ago as an "off" season / silly season league (fall for Southern), and has grown in popularity and participation. Still fun to play against other very competitive / sandbagging teams.

 

[MRfStop]

I've played with several of those guys on the team you are talking about. I haven't ever met the 3.5 you are referring to though. Unfortunately that's how combo works these days. The teams that win are all at least a half a level if not more above what they are rated. Really sucks for those who are playing legit.

We played Andy Johnson and Eric Pope. I maybe exaggerating on Andy’s ability but he’s definitely not a 3.5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we won state the year before and the dalton team was a lot better than the teams we beat in 2016

 

[MRfStop]

All true, and I also know players who are underrated and only play combo since it's not going to get them bumped up.
But the flip side is, this is an opportunity to play very good players without harming your own rating!
So the bottom line for combo is don't get too caught up in making playoffs or whatever, and just enjoy playing high-level tennis.

I agree...but it’s our only chance of making it to sectionals since our regular leagues are strong and never do very well at state

 

[Moveforwardalways]

We played Andy Johnson and Eric Pope. I maybe exaggerating on Andy’s ability but he’s definitely not a 3.5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we won state the year before and the dalton team was a lot better than the teams we beat in 2016

How many people on your team that won state the year before were sandbagging? Always nice to hear complaints from a team that got out-sandbagged. It's a time honored USTA tradition.

 

[spun_out]

If you play in a 7.5 league, you aren't too good at tennis in the grand scheme of things. So wouldn't it be okay that you lost to someone who is better than you? Or do you really need that trophy? I can guarantee you that nobody is sandbagging at the ATP level.

 

[kevrol]

I sent similar feedback to the Southern Section coordinator a few years ago, and he said they were considering establishing a Combo league rating similar to a Mixed rating, but since that hasn't happened, I don't think Southern has any plans to change.

Southern needs to change this. If you don't play the normal leagues in the spring that count towards ratings they should rate you in whatever other leagues you play. If you only play combo in 2017 then you get a C rating that is based on your combo results.

 

[MRfStop]

Southern needs to change this. If you don't play the normal leagues in the spring that count towards ratings they should rate you in whatever other leagues you play. If you only play combo in 2017 then you get a C rating that is based on your combo results.

None really. Our 4.0s are pretty weak compared to cities like Columbus and Atlanta. None of the 4.0s that were on the team could play 4.5 and compete. All of the 3.5s that were on that team are now 4.0s except for 1 who is definitely a 3.5. There isn't a team in the league itself that went 15-1 and only lost to two current 4.5s. In this case I don't believe that that 3.5 is only .5 a level below what he should be. The 3.5 was definitely better than his 4.0 partner. That team would go undefeated in my regular (Macon) 4.0 league and would win a lot of matches against our local 4.5s

 

[MRfStop]

Southern needs to change this. If you don't play the normal leagues in the spring that count towards ratings they should rate you in whatever other leagues you play. If you only play combo in 2017 then you get a C rating that is based on your combo results.

I agree. I think that for a player to be allowed to play combo they should have to had played in the spring regular league.

 

[atatu]

I'm sure after you won state the first time there were guys complaining about your team too.

 

[MRfStop]

I'm sure after you won state the first time there were guys complaining about your team too.

Nah...the draws were pretty weak that year and didn't have the normal state teams from Atlanta. The best team we played was from Columbus and that was in the final. We had a lot of tiebreakers go our way that tournament.

 

[jmc3367]

If you win people will always complain. The truth is there is no way to guarantee you are playing people of the same skill level. That being said there should be some way to bring combo leagues in to the rating mix. I think if combo counted toward your rating there would actually be more straight level teams. I know a few guys that will not play straight level because they don't want to get bumped.

 

[MRfStop]

If you win people will always complain. The truth is there is no way to guarantee you are playing people of the same skill level. That being said there should be some way to bring combo leagues in to the rating mix. I think if combo counted toward your rating there would actually be more straight level teams. I know a few guys that will not play straight level because they don't want to get bumped.

You mean all of the Valdosta teams?
Combo should count towards your rating along with tri-level.

 

[jmc3367]

You mean all of the Valdosta teams?
Combo should count towards your rating along with tri-level.

We had a really good 6.5 team one year and a good 7.5 team one year. since then it's been down hill. I think the Valdosta 7.5 team was actually a good solid team and everyone is within there level with one exception and he is close (I am not on that team) . Yet they couldn't win state. I firmly believe that you have to be at least a .5 better than you actually are to win at combo. I am not sure about straight level. I know that 2 guys that were on our straight 4.5 team got bumped to 5.0. So now they can't even play a league in Valdosta. I think the only answer is to include combo in ratings somehow. keep self rates to a minimum of 1 or 2 on any team and then let the chips fall where they may

 

[Startzel]

How many people on your team that won state the year before were sandbagging? Always nice to hear complaints from a team that got out-sandbagged. It's a time honored USTA tradition.

It's a bit funny isn't it. The only way to compete at a district level is to be extremely sandbagging in combo. It really is the wild west in usta tennis.

 

[BeyondTheTape]

It's a bit funny isn't it. The only way to compete at a district level is to be extremely sandbagging in combo. It really is the wild west in usta tennis.

You mean the Wild Wild South. YEP.

 

[BeyondTheTape]

We played Andy Johnson and Eric Pope. I maybe exaggerating on Andy’s ability but he’s definitely not a 3.5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we won state the year before and the dalton team was a lot better than the teams we beat in 2016

C'mon man. name dropping on the forum. sad. i know the opponents. one of which didnt get a set off me. you should finger point at yourself to figure out what you could have done better. keep trying though. there's always tomorrow.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

C'mon man. name dropping on the forum. sad. i know the opponents. one of which didnt get a set off me. you should finger point at yourself to figure out what you could have done better. keep trying though. there's always tomorrow.

Agree. No reason to drop names on an anonymous message board. Poor form.

 

[ace18]

C'mon man. name dropping on the forum. sad. i know the opponents. one of which didnt get a set off me. you should finger point at yourself to figure out what you could have done better. keep trying though. there's always tomorrow.

Agreed, i'm good friends with one of the guys you mention...

 

[MRfStop]

Agreed, i'm good friends with one of the guys you mention...

Doesn’t change the fact that he’s a sandbagger

 

[ace18]

Doesn’t change the fact that he’s a sandbagger

I don't know the alleged sandbagger, I know the other guy. Doesn't change that fact that putting names out there is rude.

 

[ncgator]

Interesting how the "3.5" self-rated player only plays two mixed matches so he doesn't even get a Mixed rating. Sad that he cares that much about maintaining a 3.5 rating and only playing leagues where he won't get a true dynamic rating.

 

[MRfStop]

C'mon man. name dropping on the forum. sad. i know the opponents. one of which didnt get a set off me. you should finger point at yourself to figure out what you could have done better. keep trying though. there's always tomorrow.

You’re right. That’s why, now that I am a 4.0, I am working on my game, my footwork, endurance etc to prepare me for playing better players at state and other tournaments

 

[MRfStop]

Interesting how the "3.5" self-rated player only plays two mixed matches so he doesn't even get a Mixed rating. Sad that he cares that much about maintaining a 3.5 rating and only playing leagues where he won't get a true dynamic rating.

It’s because USTA Georgia is a joke and poorly managed. I don’t know about the other states in the southern district but Georgia is really bad. From the ratings to the state tournaments.

 

[Jonnycrunk]

It’s because USTA Georgia is a joke and poorly managed. I don’t know about the other states in the southern district but Georgia is really bad. From the ratings to the state tournaments.

I am a part of the Dalton Team that won it. I have to be completely honest and say we may have 1-2 players that were missrated but that’s it. No names of course. The rest are spot on. I mean all the other teams have missrated players...so having a few of your own only even it out. Unfortunately in USTA that’s what it takes to compete these days.

 

[MRfStop]

I am a part of the Dalton Team that won it. I have to be completely honest and say we may have 1-2 players that were missrated but that’s it. No names of course. The rest are spot on. I mean all the other teams have missrated players...so having a few of your own only even it out. Unfortunately in USTA that’s what it takes to compete these days.

I wasn’t able to see your other teams play but the guys we played were good. The 3.5 has a really good game that I believe is well above his current rating and is more like someone who is a above average 4.0. The whole weekend was pretty disappointing with the pro sets. I guess your 3.5s are the ones who stood out the most. Good luck at sectionals

 

[Startzel]

Unfortunately in USTA that’s what it takes to compete these days.

Yet people tell me I’m crazy.

 

[Snarf]

I'm considering filing a grievance against a particularly egregious example of this behavior. I guess I would call it a sportsmanship grievance. And my plan is to invite the Southern coordinator to run dynamic ratings for the player for tournaments, mixed, combo, and trilevel (none of which count here) and compare them to his spring results. Has anyone heard of this tactic being used? Any estimates on my chances of success? I don't like filing grievances - I have only filed one despite captaining many teams over the years. (Against a player on a team captained by the guy I'm considering grieving. Because he lied about not playing college tennis despite playing #1 at that time. And used a fake name so people wouldn't figure out what he was doing.)

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I'm considering filing a grievance against a particularly egregious example of this behavior. I guess I would call it a sportsmanship grievance. And my plan is to invite the Southern coordinator to run dynamic ratings for the player for tournaments, mixed, combo, and trilevel (none of which count here) and compare them to his spring results. Has anyone heard of this tactic being used? Any estimates on my chances of success? I don't like filing grievances - I have only filed one despite captaining many teams over the years. (Against a player on a team captained by the guy I'm considering grieving. Because he lied about not playing college tennis despite playing #1 at that time. And used a fake name so people wouldn't figure out what he was doing.)

USTA doesn’t do dynamic ratings for those leagues, so they cannot run them.

 

[Startzel]

I'm considering filing a grievance against a particularly egregious example of this behavior. I guess I would call it a sportsmanship grievance. And my plan is to invite the Southern coordinator to run dynamic ratings for the player for tournaments, mixed, combo, and trilevel (none of which count here) and compare them to his spring results. Has anyone heard of this tactic being used? Any estimates on my chances of success? I don't like filing grievances - I have only filed one despite captaining many teams over the years. (Against a player on a team captained by the guy I'm considering grieving. Because he lied about not playing college tennis despite playing #1 at that time. And used a fake name so people wouldn't figure out what he was doing.)

They’re not going to do anything about cheating in combo.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

They’re not going to do anything about cheating in combo.

After all, you gotta be able to cheat in something, or it’s no fun.

 

[Snarf]

USTA doesn’t do dynamic ratings for those leagues, so they cannot run them.

They can run them. At least that's what a usta employee who was on the national ratings committee told me.

 

[MRfStop]

From the sounds of it USTA isn't going to do anything about the leagues that are notorious for sandbagging etc.

 

[sam_p]

You mean all of the Valdosta teams?
Combo should count towards your rating along with tri-level.

Nope, the reason why they don't (and it is a good one) - combo is basically an exhibition league (no nationals) so if it counted for ratings guys would go into full tank mode. Similarly tri-level - one weekend and you could tank a bunch of matches on a team with no chance to advance.

My attitude is that if someone only plays combo and mixed to avoid getting a rating then they are costing themselves participating in the more important leagues, I know guys do it but it is mystifying to me.

 

[MRfStop]

Nope, the reason why they don't (and it is a good one) - combo is basically an exhibition league (no nationals) so if it counted for ratings guys would go into full tank mode. Similarly tri-level - one weekend and you could tank a bunch of matches on a team with no chance to advance.

My attitude is that if someone only plays combo and mixed to avoid getting a rating then they are costing themselves participating in the more important leagues, I know guys do it but it is mystifying to me.

Well you can still get a mixed rating. Several of the 4.5s in my area got a 4.5 mixed rating because is no 4.5 league here. Another one got bumped to 5.0 and he only played mixed as a 4.5.

 

[sam_p]

Well you can still get a mixed rating. Several of the 4.5s in my area got a 4.5 mixed rating because is no 4.5 league here. Another one got bumped to 5.0 and he only played mixed as a 4.5.

Certainly true

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Another one got bumped to 5.0 and he only played mixed as a 4.5.

Well, if he was beating everyone easily while playing with a 4.5 partner, maybe he needs to play with a 4.0 partner. That’s what the rating is for.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

lol, that's some major league sandbagging...
https://app.myutr.com/players/770647?tab=Doubles
basically 2 6's vs. 3-5 range in utr... (for comparison: according to utr i'm a 6.5 in dubs... and 4.5C ntrp, tennisrecord has me ~4.3)

personally i'd have taken the beating but gotten points from them cheaper than a lesson

 

[MRfStop]

lol, that's some major league sandbagging...
https://app.myutr.com/players/770647?tab=Doubles
basically 2 6's vs. 3-5 range in utr... (for comparison: according to utr i'm a 6.5 in dubs... and 4.5C ntrp, tennisrecord has me ~4.3)

personally i'd have taken the beating but gotten points from them cheaper than a lesson

 

[brettatk]

lol, that's some major league sandbagging...
https://app.myutr.com/players/770647?tab=Doubles
basically 2 6's vs. 3-5 range in utr... (for comparison: according to utr i'm a 6.5 in dubs... and 4.5C ntrp, tennisrecord has me ~4.3)

personally i'd have taken the beating but gotten points from them cheaper than a lesson

That's about how I feel about my upcoming season. I play Senior Mixed ALTA down here in Atlanta. We got moved up to AA which consists mostly of 4.5+ guys (I'm 4.0). I have a mens doubles match tonight and I'm sure I'll be playing against at least two 4.5's. Heck, I'm supposed to lose so I may as well hit out with no pressure. Should be fun.

 

[MRfStop]

That's about how I feel about my upcoming season. I play Senior Mixed ALTA down here in Atlanta. We got moved up to AA which consists mostly of 4.5+ guys (I'm 4.0). I have a mens doubles match tonight and I'm sure I'll be playing against at least two 4.5's. Heck, I'm supposed to lose so I may as well hit out with no pressure. Should be fun.

The Atlanta 4.5s are no joke.

 

[brettatk]

I was extremely rusty for not playing in a month, but it was fun. We lost 2-6 3-6 but had some good points. I started feeling a lot better out there towards the end. Have a USTA match to make up tonight and then two more ALTA matches over the weekend. Lots of good tennis coming up.

 

[MRfStop]

I was extremely rusty for not playing in a month, but it was fun. We lost 2-6 3-6 but had some good points. I started feeling a lot better out there towards the end. Have a USTA match to make up tonight and then two more ALTA matches over the weekend. Lots of good tennis coming up.

How did your make up and two ALTA matches go?

 

[rod99]

i've always said that self-rated players should be ineligible for any state tournament. that eliminates the majority of sandbaggers. self-rated players can play in the regular season (expand the roster so a team with some self-rated players can field a team at states) but make them ineligible for post-season play.

 

[brettatk]

How did your make up and two ALTA matches go?

Won the other makeup match for USTA and only ended up playing one ALTA match that weekend which I lost (mixed). Did not play well at all. Played a USTA match on Saturday and started playing much better (won in 3 sets). Playoffs start this weekend in 18+ so hoping I continue to play better. How is your first ALTA season going?