Roger Federer and Bill Tilden

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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation08.html


After you read the similarities between kennedy(who believed privately that he was Lincoln reincarnated resolutely) and Lincoln, YOU have to go see the serve of Tilden on the John Yandel site. Once you see Tildens serve, and once you read the similarities between Kennedy(name means one who cannot die in Gaelic) and Lincoln, you might understand WHY Federer's game SEEMS so otherworldly. Because Tilden had a game that was otherworldly too. And seemed to barely be trying whilst hitting huge power and spin.

Now I am not a proponent of reincarnation. But no one seems to be able to explain why this Federer guy seems to be BORN to play. Well maybe he is just doing it again, in terms of domination. If that is the case, NADAL may be Billy Johnson his only foe who could even make him break a sweat. And who had a huge western forehand. Remember, the Christian church was all about reincarnation till the council of Nicodea.

But you have, HAVE to see Tilden's serve in the Yandel file. IT IS DEFINITELY ROGERS SERVE.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
I saw Federers serve live this year and was stunned at how simple and beautiful it was. BUT I knew I had seen it somewhere. I went into Yandel's site and saw it immediately. The serves are absolutely IDENTICAL. Huge, huge power, same delivery, and NO EFFORT at all. No effort at all. Unmistakeable.
 
Amone

Amone

Hall of Fame
Oh, I get it now! Federer's going to lose his right hand middle finger! Everyone watch out for it, I called it first! And actually, Tilden's game was based on having every shot, and it wasn't an accident. He could probably have hit any pro's serve, it's not like he favored any one. Reading his written works taught me a lot about the guy, and you know what? His favorite thing was to not play favorites for any specific shot, because then he'd lose the edge of having every possible shot in the game in his repetoir.

Also, Nadal's nothing like Johnson. More like Ichiya Kumagae, but Big Bill had no problem with Kumagae. Specifically, Kumagae used a severe grip, and had such topspin as to be a "Freak" shot by Tilden's reckoning. He was best suited to clay courts, and relied on athleticism as opposed to ball pace or speed to win. It's pretty clear who he's more like, considering that "Little Bill" Johnson hit a flat, speedy-- but not pacey-- forehand, less like Nadal's and more like Berdych or Blake.

There might be similarities, but then again, there might just be coincidences. If you were to look, you'd find similarities between most players and most other players. Here's one to look for: Marat Safin and Ken Rosewall. You heard it here first.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
Tilden was so dominating, that he is basically forgotten. He absolutely dominated. Till he was close to 50. Because he was so fluid. Tall, and phenomenal movement with huge power and spin. I mean, does that sound familiar??? A friend of mine who is very wealthy says all the elite know about this and wait literally for people to come through on the wheel, whatever that is.
 
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DashaandSafin

Hall of Fame
Yea, Im sure Roger is an reincarnation of Tilden *rollseyes*

He was born to play? So what? So were the other 99 players in the top 100. They have all been described as born to play, otherwise they would not be so good.

Besides, the players in the old days didnt hit with "huge" power. Watch the videos buddy, Laver looks like hes hitting with the pace of a junior player.

Your friend whose very wealthy? Wow!!! Nice statment, or lack thereof.
 
Amone

Amone

Hall of Fame
Bjorn99 said:
Tilden was so dominating, that he is basically forgotten. He absolutely dominated. Till he was close to 50. Because he was so fluid. Tall, and phenomenal movement with huge power and spin. I mean, does that sound familiar??? A friend of mine who is very wealthy says all the elite know about this and wait literally for people to come through on the wheel, whatever that is.
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That's interesting, because John McEnroe was also dominating, as was Jimmy Connors, as was Pete Sampras (who isn't dead yet), as was Don Budge, as was Roy Emerson, as was Fred Perry, as was Jack Kramer, as was Rod Laver, Bjorn Borg, as was Ivan Lendl, as was Stefan Edberg.

If you really, really want a connection, though, look at Ken Rosewall and Bill Tilden. Both believed in the value of "Intensive Practice," something I find much more similar than a simple matter of wins and losses.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
Did you read the Lincoln and kennedy? C'mon, what are you excuses for that? And read this about Tilden...


Tall, lean, and gangly, with long arms, enormous hands, and exceptionally broad shoulders, Tilden possessed what was called at the time a "cannonball" service. Although he could serve aces almost at will, he had little interest in advancing to the net behind his serve. He primarily used spin and slice serves, reserving his famous cannonball for crucial moments in the match. Allison Danzig, the main tennis writer for The New York Times from 1923 through 1968 and the editor of "The Fireside Book of Tennis", called Tilden the greatest tennis player he had ever seen. "He could run like a deer," Danzig told CBS Sports.

It was little known at the time, but mid-way through the 20s the tip of Tilden's middle finger on his hand that gripped the racquet became infected and had to be amputated. He also had a chronic knee problem that hindered him seriously from time to time. This too was concealed from the public and hardly seemed to impede him in his long string of victories.


Tilden hitting an overhead with classic form, circa 1925In spite of his powerful serve, Tilden preferred to play mostly from the backcourt, where he dazzled opponents with his ever-changing tactics: a mixture of guile, of chopped and sliced shots, of dropshots and lobs, and of sudden powerful ground strokes deep to the corners. He hit superbly angled shots on nearly impossible returns and liked nothing better than to face an opponent who threw powerful serves and ground strokes at him and who rushed the net -- one way or another Tilden would find a way to hit the ball past him.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
What prompted all this was Federer's walk which is the most distinctive walk I have ever seen, AND the serve. I knew when I saw it live that I had seen someone with a pretty well identical serve. And for a guy with a elephant wood racquet to hit a serve similar to what Roger does, has to have a lot of serve. Anyways, read the Kennedy and Lincoln link, and Kennedy himself believe implicitly that he was walking Lincoln's walk, and his wife had him buried in the same manner to the tee, true to his desire.

Keep an open mind and don't be so quick to judge.
 
Amone

Amone

Hall of Fame
Bjorn99 said:
What prompted all this was Federer's walk which is the most distinctive walk I have ever seen, AND the serve. I knew when I saw it live that I had seen someone with a pretty well identical serve. And for a guy with a elephant wood racquet to hit a serve similar to what Roger does, has to have a lot of serve. Anyways, read the Kennedy and Lincoln link, and Kennedy himself believe implicitly that he was walking Lincoln's walk, and his wife had him buried in the same manner to the tee, true to his desire.

Keep an open mind and don't be so quick to judge.
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I'm not being quick to judge. I'm pretty superstitious (for an atheist) and I just don't buy it. There are similarities, but I find two things hard to believe: One, that Tilden would, reincarnated, play tennis. And Two, that because Roger Federer is a dominating player with a spinny serve, that he's the second coming of Bill Tilden. If it weren't for the net play, I might argue that you had John McEnroe there. Admittedly, there are some similarities that I didn't see in the beginning, like the fact that Federer doesn't approach the net much.

However, there are also some things that aren't similar. Federer's serve isn't that dominating, the rest of his game is. For an entry under Big Serve, see Ivanisevic, Goran and Sampras, Peter. I'm not even sure Federer has a particularly big serve at his disposal, at this point. He did before, but he's let it go. And before you say he's capable of acing folks, I saw Mikhail Pernfors second serve ace somebody (Todd Martin?) once, and he's got about as much power as I have money. Which is none.

EDIT: Uh... apparently second serve with a dash between it is a curse word, I guess. So I had to fix it.
 
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babySuri

Banned
Bill Tilden was jailed several times for fondling and groping underage boys. How can you compare this guy to Federer? Tilden is a child molester! How do you appreciate a player who molested children? Some people here are disgusting or have no morals.
 
Amone

Amone

Hall of Fame
babySuri said:
Bill Tilden was jailed several times for fondling and groping underage boys. How can you compare this guy to Federer? Tilden is a child molester! How do you appreciate a player who molested children? Some people here are disgusting or have no morals.
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And Safin's an alcoholic. What of it? :confused: You can recognize the difference between tennis and social life, right?
 
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babySuri

Banned
Amone said:
And Safin's an alcoholic. What of it? :confused: You can recognize the difference between tennis and social life, right?
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What if Tilden molested your grandpa back in the day? Would you be so quick to post a silly response? How can you put alcoholism and a CRIME like child molestation on the same plane? How?!

Tilden is a child molester. That's the bottom line. I would not support any player, no matter how great they are, if they are a criminal, and especially if they commit crimes against helpless children. Disgusting.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
I never mentioned that and think very highly of Federer. Very highly. I just find it interesting that is all. I am a big fan of kennedy and was always surprised at finding out how obsessed he was with Lincoln and his legacy. Until I read the comparison. And the Lyndon Johnson and Andrew Johnson comparison is just freaky.

And Tilden was suspected of being innocent by many. I would like to believe that too. I read his book about six years ago and he seemed like a master of the game.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
babySuri said:
Bill Tilden was jailed several times for fondling and groping underage boys. How can you compare this guy to Federer? Tilden is a child molester! How do you appreciate a player who molested children? Some people here are disgusting or have no morals.
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Now who is being a judgemental hollow? DID I mention once anything about being a child molestor? Ever? No, so keep quiet. I respect Roger, he is by far and away my favourite player of the modern era. I also, without ever having seeing him, loved what I read about Tilden.

Tilden and Federer are the two most similar PLAYERS of all time. Socially, and all that, I couldn't care less about and have NO IDEA.
 
Amone

Amone

Hall of Fame
babySuri said:
What if Tilden molested your grandpa back in the day? Would you be so quick to post a silly response? How can you put alcoholism and a CRIME like child molestation on the same plane? How?!

Tilden is a child molester. That's the bottom line. I would not support any player, no matter how great they are, if they are a criminal, and especially if they commit crimes against helpless children. Disgusting.
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It's a deplorable trait in both cases. I don't like child molesters, I don't like alcoholics. Of course they're on different levels! But the fact is that there's a certain point where I don't like to discuss it past, and you know, I think that being alcholic to the point where it interferes with your tennis game is just past that point, where child molestation is much further past that point. And as a result, I just separate it from their tennis game.

Think John McEnroe and yelling, for another example. Some people I know can't stand his game because he *****es so much, but you know, he did have a nice game.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
And Amone, the walk, the serve, the build, the style, the approach, the huge leg stride for forehands and backhands, the fluidity, the way they played was pretty well IDENTICAL. And the mental approach was also identical. Forget Rosewall, (who isn't dead) laver and the rest. I am talking an identical serve and STYLE. And gesticulations. It is way beyond coincidental. By the way, first day in police school you are taught that there is no such thing as coincidences.

And the way they DOMINATED. Tildens opponents were always beaten at THEIR best game. Where have we heard that before? I think Roger is hip of this, and thus, the retro look at Wimby this year.
 
Amone

Amone

Hall of Fame
Bjorn99 said:
And Amone, the walk, the serve, the build, the style, the approach, the huge leg stride for forehands and backhands, the fluidity, the way they played was pretty well IDENTICAL. And the mental approach was also identical. Forget Rosewall, (who isn't dead) laver and the rest. I am talking an identical serve and STYLE. And gesticulations. It is way beyond coincidental. By the way, first day in police school you are taught that there is no such thing as coincidences.

And the way they DOMINATED. Tildens opponents were always beaten at THEIR best game. Where have we heard that before? I think Roger is hip of this, and thus, the retro look at Wimby this year.
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Maybe if you go to a religious school, I suppose. o_O But public school taught me nothing about coincidences, except how to spell them.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
The serve, like all shots is a kinetic chain. Signatured by your personal musculature, genetics etc.... And interestingly enough, you really, really don't see serves that look like one another. Which is amazing considering all the copying and emulation that is going on these days. So that is what really blew me away when I saw the Tilden serve. It is unmistakable. Its Roger. The elegance, the absolute lack of intensity with big power, the spin, the RPM's, the whole ball of wax. And WITH a wood racquet.

Then you start looking at their running styles and racquet angles and then it just gets completely spooky. Nobody else besides these two, had the ability to morph their game into their opponents and beat them at THEIR own game(the opponents).

Anyways, until the council of Nicodea, the Christian Church was based on this concept, and then after if you talked about it, you were burned at the stake.
 
exruda

exruda

Semi-Pro
Bjorn99 said:
Remember, the Christian church was all about reincarnation till the council of Nicodea.
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Where did you get this BS from?

There is a difference between reincarnation and discussions about the nature of Jesus!

Edit: And I checked, and from what I see Nicodea is not a proper version of the name for the city where a council was held in 325 (the city is Nicaea, now known as Iznik) :mrgreen:
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
Well I don't want to upset peoples beliefs or mind control but it is commonly known as Nicodea. But you could very well be right. Remember one thing, the truth is hidden, at all times, so if it is front and center, be very suspicious. What is, ISN'T, what isn't IS. Pretty basic. :mrgreen:
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
You know, I could probably believe that Federer was a reincarnated Tilden if Mirka was a guy.

Didn't JFK only have 3 children? One who died at birth, Caroline and John Jr?

I think some of the "facts" on the link provided are bogus.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
babySuri said:
Bill Tilden was jailed several times for fondling and groping underage boys. How can you compare this guy to Federer? Tilden is a child molester! How do you appreciate a player who molested children? Some people here are disgusting or have no morals.
Click to expand...

From what I have read, many of his crimes were concocted because they wanted to get him since he was gay.
 
exruda

exruda

Semi-Pro
Bjorn99 said:
Well I don't want to upset peoples beliefs or mind control but it is commonly known as Nicodea. But you could very well be right.
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Commonly known by whom, may I ask?
The only different version for Nicaea I know is Nice.
Now, this is no proof at all, but if you google "council of Nicodea" you get one result, ond for "council of Nicaea" -- more than 200.000 Now, if 1 result means to you it's "commonly known"....

Remember one thing, the truth is hidden, at all times, so if it is front and center, be very suspicious. What is, ISN'T, what isn't IS. Pretty basic. :mrgreen:
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Ah, well, you see, I follow the Ockhams razor rule, which states quite the contrary: the most simple and straightforward solution is the true one.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
Bjorn99, I don't know if you really believe these things you are posting, or just having fun. Since you coach juniors, I sincerely hope you are not part of a "tennis cult" (that would be a first) with you as the resident guru.
 
D

DashaandSafin

Hall of Fame
Rabbit said:
You know, I could probably believe that Federer was a reincarnated Tilden if Mirka was a guy.

Didn't JFK only have 3 children? One who died at birth, Caroline and John Jr?

I think some of the "facts" on the link provided are bogus.
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Extremly true. It is similar to those "conspiracy" videos that float around. It slightly bends the facts to let you ONLY see that one particular asset. It dosen't give you the whole picture.

You can find whatever you want to belive on the internet. For example, I'm sure there's a work out there that compares Bush to Jesus, and it seems actually believable.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
Thanks for your concern. And I can assure you that my students are receiving my tennis knowledge and not much more.

And this is fun. But being observant, and scientifically interested, and noticing how difficult it is for two serves to be similar. This is very interesting.

And, for any student of the game, only two players have moved like this in the history of the game and come up with multitudes of shots whereas their peers only featured a few at best. Tilden made other players look pedestrian, and so does Federer. Both moved in a way that was balletic and so maybe did Borg. But Borg beat people basically in one way, Federer and Tilden delighted and delight in beating people every which way and side way. WHY? Because they could. They could/can morph into any game you want, and beat you with your best stroke. Gonzales hit the hardest forehand I have ever seen the other night, and Federer was literally waiting for it and half volleyed it with slightly more speed back. Only guy to do that in the history of the game consistently? Tilden.

Yes it is fun, but it is sort of more than that. The truth, which is fought tooth and nail by every generation, is definitely stranger than ficition.
 
ShooterMcMarco

ShooterMcMarco

Hall of Fame
I just watched all of the clips of Tilden, the motion looks a little similar, except he hits the ball while its still rising.
 
H

heycal

Hall of Fame
ShooterMcMarco said:
I just watched all of the clips of Tilden, the motion looks a little similar, except he hits the ball while its still rising.
Click to expand...

Where exactly are these clips of Tilden's serve?
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
In those days, they did that, hitting the ball on the rise. But the second clip was eerilly similar. Remember I saw this guys serve recently and was blown away by its snap. Absolutely effortless serve. Didn't even look like he was trying. Same with Tilden, effortless. And the ball explodes off the racquet by some unseen force and energy.
 
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heycal

Hall of Fame
sureshs said:
From what I have read, many of his crimes were concocted because they wanted to get him since he was gay.
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I read the Frank Deford biography, which I got the impression was an authoritative study of Tilden, and it did not suggest his crimes were concocted. The book was sympathetic to him in many ways, but was pretty clear in saying that Tilden was guilty of the crimes with which he was charged, and that if one wanted to label him, a pedophile who was attracted to boys was a more fitting description than gay, which is an entirely different thing. According to Deford, Tilden was not known to ever have had any sexual relationships with other adults of either sex.
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
That was quite a book. I don't remember the parts about his disease, I guess I didn't want to concentrate on them.
 
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