Sampras-Agassi 1999 YEC. UNREAL ATTACK. Sampras UNBEATABLE HERE

[380pistol]

yeah, got that site ...

Movement: Roger Federer

http://tennis.com/features/greatestshots/greatestshots.aspx?id=108832

So much for federer's movement not even being in the top 5. ha ha

P.S. I repeat federer's backhand not being in the list does not mean it is far inferior to agassi's. Agassi's is better, but not by a big margin.

This is classic. When the anoint Federer the greatest mover, it's golden to you. But when he doesn't make the backhand list, the excuses.

Again Agassi's margin on the backhand is larger than Roger's on the forehand.

Oh how about this......
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/flash/perfect

Footwork went to whom???
Backhand went to whom???

 

[bet]

Thanks for saving me the hassle. I mean watch Agassi vs Chang 1994 US Open. You're right Agassi was never in the upper echelon when it came to athleticism, but was quick in his own right.

These guys see 33 plus Dre and assume that was what he was in his younger days.

Yes, well some of these posters are obviously clueless and more tellingly so full of hubris that they think having seen a few Agassi matches in his ailing years they can make statements about what he was like when younger. Either that or they didn't see it even when he was young. In any case, Agassi's quickness when he was young is not a real point of contention. He was extremely quick, period. As Carillo said in 88 of Agassi and the on the rise baseline style he played back then, (Note: Carillo is an idiot but she was correct here) "his eyes and his hands and his feet are so quick, he can do it".

 

[SirBlend12]

The first 7 seconds of the OP's vid made me choke on my own tongue.

That reel never gets old.

 

[abmk]

This is classic. When the anoint Federer the greatest mover, it's golden to you. But when he doesn't make the backhand list, the excuses.

lol, I said he is one of the top 5 movers in the history of the game for sure and you disagreed ; I showed that the same website which you referred to had him as the best , forget about 2nd/3rd/4th/5th ! You were OWNED, that's it :lol:

I didn't bring up that site, because these sort of sites are not absolute proof of anything ... its an opinion of experts . However if he has been rated as the best there, it means he must atleast be good enough to be in top 5 in the movement criteria. Most( rather all ) of the former players and the current ones surely would agree that his movement is phenomenal and good enough to be in the top 5 of all time

When did I ever say federer's backhand is in the top 10/top 15 or something like that !?

All I said was federer's BH was not far behind agassi's and the two are on the same level on faster courts !

 

[helloworld]

lol, I said he is one of the top 5 movers in the history of the game for sure and you disagreed ; I showed that the same website which you referred to had him as the best , forget about 2nd/3rd/4th/5th ! You were OWNED, that's it :lol:

I didn't bring up that site, because these sort of sites are not absolute proof of anything ... its an opinion of experts . However if he has been rated as the best there, it means he must atleast be good enough to be in top 5 in the movement criteria. Most( rather all ) of the former players and the current ones surely would agree that his movement is phenomenal .

When did I ever say federer's backhand is in the top 10/top 15 or something like that !?

All I said was federer's BH was not far behind agassi's and the two are on the same level on faster courts !

Fed's backhand does not rival Agassi on any type of court, not on grass, clay, rebound, hard, carpet, or even ice. Fed's backhand has been exposed on all surfaces including grass this year, yet ignorant people still find some way to compare his backhand to the REAL backhand. Andre is the KING of backhand. Fed's backhand? It's not consistent and breaks down easily. People used to pick on it all the time before he improved his movement.

 

[abmk]

Well I'll summarize... Agassi made the both forehand and backhand shortlists, and Federer just the forhand.

If you think Federer's gap on the forehand is greater than Agassi's gap on the backhand, all I can do is laugh. Agassi made the forehand list (and would by the genral consensus), Roger didn't make the backhand list.... care to explain why???

Just assume for a second this scenario:

Say agassi has the 9th best FH and the 7th best BH. And Federer has the best FH and the 12th best BH . Now if you make a list of the top 10 FH s and BHs , both agassi's FH and BH will be in there, but only federer's FH will be in there. But according to the ratings, the gap in ratings b/w their FHs is more than the gap in ratings b/w their BHs.

I just explained a scenario "oversimplyfying" in the process. I know it is much more complex than that !

For someone who jocks Roger so hard it's laughable that you don't even know the nuances of his game. One of Federer's greatest attributes is his anticipation. Anicipation is mental, not physical, so how can you equate that with movement???

Lol, if you don't have good anticipation, how can you move well on a tennis court ? You might be fast, but its no good if your anticipation is bad. Your opponents will trick you ! Anticipation is also a part of movement on a tennis court. I never equated it with movement.

So much for knowing the nuances of THE game !

Does Fed move on clay like Nadal, Bruguera, Borg, Wilander even Guga???

No, he doesn't , but he moves well ......

Nadal moves well on hardcourts, it's his game and body not holding up which hurts him, not his movement.

He doesn't move that well. But yeah, he's not bad by any means.

 

[drakulie]

any chance of those French Final Open Highlight Videos???

 

[abmk]

Fed's backhand does not rival Agassi on any type of court, not on grass, clay, rebound, hard, carpet, or even ice. Fed's backhand has been exposed on all surfaces including grass this year, yet ignorant people still find some way to compare his backhand to the REAL backhand. Andre is the KING of backhand. Fed's backhand? It's not consistent and breaks down easily. People used to pick on it all the time before he improved his movement.

Fed's backhand breaks down easily ? : lol :

It is consistent , surely not as much as agassi's , but not many have been ... Federer surely has the greater variety on his backhand .

I'd put their BHs on the same level on grass and med-fast to fast hard courts. .


You don't win 13 slams being primarily a baseliner without having a consistent backhand ! Or is that tough to fathom !?


Here is federer giving a lesson on the backhand to the "KING" of backhand as you want to call him !( and forehand too )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WWQZ306dqw

 

[bet]

Just assume for a second this scenario:

Say agassi has the 9th best FH and the 7th best BH. And Federer has the best FH and the 12th best BH . .

TWELFTH?!!? LOL. Some kind of joke?? Federer's forehand is strong for a "weakest side" but it's not in the top 30. That's just scary!
There have been numerous players who made careers out of their backhand.

 

[bet]

Fed's backhand breaks down easily ? :lol

It is consistent , surely not as much as agassi's , but not many have been ... federer surely has the greater variety on his backhand .

I'd put their BHs on the same level on grass and med-fast to fast hard courts. .


Here is federer giving a lesson on the backhand to the "KING" of backhand as you want to call him !( and forehand too )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WWQZ306dqw

Yes, and here's proof of why Agassi's serve is superior to Federers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HbnT_sNeQM

This guy is utterly hopeless with the logic and ignorant of tennis history. Silly silly stuff.

If tennis were nothing but a backhand contest, Federer would lose 8 out of 10days to Agassi.

 

[abmk]

TWELFTH?!!? LOL. Some kind of joke?? Federer's forehand is strong for a "weakest side" but it's not in the top 30. That's just scary!
There have been numerous players who made careers out of their backhand.

Well, I already said it was a lot of oversimplification and that was just an assumption . It doesn't mean agassi has the 7th best BH or federer has the 12th best ..............

There is no way you can quantify the difference b/w a particular strokes of players ....

 

[bet]

Well, I already said it was a lot of oversimplification and that was just an assumption . It doesn't mean agassi has the 7th best BH or federer has the 12th best ..............

There is no way you can quantify the difference b/w a particular strokes of players ....

OK, fair enough! But your insistence that Federer's backhand is nearly equal to Agassi's....it's flabbergasting!!!

Murray, Nalbandian, Agassi himself, Nadal.....coaches like Bolletierri, Gilbert, etc have all gone into matches planning to pressure and break-down Federer's backhand. Sometimes it didn't work, sometimes it DID! But in any case, I promise you, no player, crossing multiple generations, went into a match with Agassi planning to attack and break down Agassi's backhand!


Actually, I'll self-correct that Mcenroe once went into a grass-court match planning just that, though his plan was based on stretching and putting Agassi in awkward positions, not a break-down of the stroke itself. Mac later admitted Agassi's backhand was far too good and the strategy was not effective.

 

[abmk]

Yes, and here's proof of why Agassi's serve is superior to Federers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HbnT_sNeQM

This guy is utterly hopeless with the logic and ignorant of tennis history. Silly silly stuff.

If tennis were nothing but a backhand contest, Federer would lose 8 out of 10days to Agassi.

yeah, right ! talk about bias !

I never said fed's BH overall is better than agassi's, agassi's is surely better . I never said that video proved federer's BH is better than agassi's.

and you bring a video saying agassi's serve is better than federer's ?

you are the one hopeless with logic AND words.

 

[bet]

yeah, right ! talk about bias !

I never said fed's BH overall is better than agassi's, agassi's is surely better . I never said that video proved federer's BH is better than agassi's.

and you bring a video saying agassi's serve is better than federer's ?

you are the one hopeless with logic AND words.

LOL! Hopeless.

 

[drakulie]

^^^^^^Bottom line>>>

Agassi has one of, if not the greatest backhand ever. Federer is not even in the conversation.

Now, if someone could provide me those highlight videos of Sampras playing in a French Open finals>>> I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[abmk]

OK, fair enough! But your insistence that Federer's backhand is nearly equal to Agassi's....it's flabbergasting!!!

Murray, Nalbandian, Agassi himself, Nadal.....coaches like Bolletierri, Gilbert, etc have all gone into matches planning to pressure and break-down Federer's backhand. Sometimes it didn't work, sometimes it DID! But in any case, I promise you, no player, crossing multiple generations, went into a match with Agassi planning to attack and break down Agassi's backhand!


Actually, I'll self-correct that Mcenroe once went into a grass-court match planning just that, though his plan was based on stretching and putting Agassi in awkward positions, not a break-down of the stroke itself. Mac later admitted Agassi's backhand was far too good and the strategy was not effective.

well, I said the difference in their FHs is greater than the difference in their BHs the other way around.

For the nth time I repeat agassi's is definitely better overall , but the difference is narrowed down on the faster courts .

Players could only look to exploit federer's BH because the rest of his game was too good ... ( except maybe his net game , but then that doesn't become significant if he doesn't come upto the net often )

 

[bolo]

Fed's backhand does not rival Agassi on any type of court, not on grass, clay, rebound, hard, carpet, or even ice. Fed's backhand has been exposed on all surfaces including grass this year, yet ignorant people still find some way to compare his backhand to the REAL backhand. Andre is the KING of backhand. Fed's backhand? It's not consistent and breaks down easily. People used to pick on it all the time before he improved his movement.

It's actually been very hard to breakdown his backhand since he won that first AO. It's been a very very consistent rally shot and whenever he is in trouble he can always just slice it back.

Overall you are correct imo and it's nowhere near as good as agassi's in terms of offense. Right now on the tour many guys have more powerful backhands than Fed. across many surfaces (nalbandian, davydenko, djokovic, murray, safin, nadal, berdych, youzhny, haas, malisse, gasquet etc.).

Fun to watch guys try and break it down, but rarely happens although it's happened a little bit more this year.

 

[JoshDragon]

It's actually been very hard to breakdown his backhand since he won that first AO. It's been a very very consistent rally shot and whenever he is in trouble he can always just slice it back.

Overall you are correct imo and it's nowhere near as good as agassi's in terms of offense. Right now on the tour many guys have more powerful backhands than Fed. across many surfaces (nalbandian, davydenko, djokovic, murray, safin, nadal, berdych, youzhny, haas, malisse, gasquet etc.).

Fun to watch guys try and break it down, but rarely happens although it's happened a little bit more this year.

I agree with you, although it's been Federer's forehand that's been letting him down this year.

 

[bet]

It's actually been very hard to breakdown his backhand since he won that first AO. It's been a very very consistent rally shot and whenever he is in trouble he can always just slice it back.

Overall you are correct imo and it's nowhere near as good as agassi's in terms of offense. Right now on the tour many guys have more powerful backhands than Fed. across many surfaces (nalbandian, davydenko, djokovic, murray, safin, nadal, berdych, youzhny, haas, malisse, gasquet etc.).

Fun to watch guys try and break it down, but rarely happens although it's happened a little bit more this year.

Ironically it reminds me a lot of Sampras. Guys like Agassi, Courier etc would POUND Sampras' backhand over and over and over again. They knew their absolute best chance in any rally was to get a crosscourt rally going either using their bh or inside out forehands. It rarely worked with Sampras either and it made them open to other avenues of attack. It was amazing to watch because they were relentless (courier in particular) and yet you could see the pressure was on them! Sampras would say, OK, I can rally with you, no problem, roll some back, drive some back, slice some back....better make every shot good because I'm hanging out in the bh corner and if you give me a chance I"ll run around and clock a forehand....don't even TRY to burn me by going up the line because you know what comes next...RUNNING FOREHAND CITY! Agassi had it a bit better in this regard as his up-the-line backhand is arguably the best the game has seen, but he to was wary because Sampras was so quick and wanted that running forehand so bad!

 

[bolo]

I agree with you, although it's been Federer's forehand that's been letting him down this year.

That's happened a bit more this year too especially in that post mono window between wimbledon and the Open.

 

[bolo]

Ironically it reminds me a lot of Sampras. Guys like Agassi, Courier etc would POUND Sampras' backhand over and over and over again. They knew their absolute best chance in any rally was to get a crosscourt rally going either using their bh or inside out forehands. It rarely worked with Sampras either and it made them open to other avenues of attack. It was amazing to watch because they were relentless (courier in particular) and yet you could see the pressure was on them! Sampras would say, OK, I can rally with you, no problem, roll some back, drive some back, slice some back....better make every shot good because I'm hanging out in the bh corner and if you give me a chance I"ll run around and clock a forehand....don't even TRY to burn me by going up the line because you know what comes next...RUNNING FOREHAND CITY! Agassi had it a bit better in this regard as his up-the-line backhand is arguably the best the game has seen, but he to was wary because Sampras was so quick and wanted that running forehand so bad!

I agree that it is reminiscent of sampras against agassi and courier. Sampras hurt agassi and courier many times with that running forehand, and agassi especially in that final match. He was a little fortunate in one way in that those two were not more equipped in the speed and feel dimensions. Imo because federer is a bit more of a jedi warrior with the racquet and the fact that he's likely fitter he is able to stay in rallies on the backhand side a little longer than sampras.

 

[bet]

I agree that it is reminiscent of sampras against agassi and courier. Sampras hurt agassi and courier many times with that running forehand, and agassi especially in that final match. He was a little fortunate in one way in that those two were not more equipped in the speed and feel dimensions. Imo because federer is a bit more of a jedi warrior with the racquet and the fact that he's likely fitter he is able to stay in rallies on the backhand side a little longer than sampras.

"JEDI WARRIOR WITH THE RACQUET". Geez, I can't even respond. I can't even respond. That's the stupidest analogy EVER. What does it even mean?? Cripes!

Nor is it clear whether your'e even comparing Federer to Sampras or Agassi/Courier. Incidently, Agassi when young and Courier always(in one direction) were extremely fast. That's why they're multiple grand slam champions from the baseline.

PS. I'm sorry, that was harsh. But it's a meaningless analogy and...I"m not 12.

 

[bolo]

"JEDI WARRIOR WITH THE RACQUET". Geez, I can't even respond. I can't even respond. That's the stupidest analogy EVER. What does it even mean?? Cripes!

Nor is it clear whether your'e even comparing Federer to Sampras or Agassi/Courier. Incidently, Agassi when young and Courier always(in one direction) were extremely fast. That's why they're multiple grand slam champions from the baseline.

PS. I'm sorry, that was harsh. But it's a meaningless analogy and...I"m not 12.

lol, I don't really believe you are sorry. That's the beauty of the edit function and delete keys, you don't really have to say sorry in the same post.

Now imo federer is a little bit more flexible with the racquet than sampras, he slices more and he hits those backhand flicks a lot more than sampras ever did. Sampras himself has said that backhand flick that federer consistently hits is a shot that he has not seen before.

Federer is also able to defend hard hit returns of serve near his feet in a much easier manner than sampras. He doesn't give up any ground there. Imo federer also seems to be a little quicker with the racquet on the return of serve than Sampras. Overall my claim is that federer is more of a finesse player from the back of the court than sampras-more of a jedi warrior from the back of the court as opposed to sampras who is more like Conan the Warrior. lol

Agassi and Courier are not as fast as sampras, I don't think that is really up for debate. I am happy to change my mind if you can show me any credible evidence that they are similar in terms of speed. Their lack of speed directly lead to their problems in tracking down his running forehand and gave sampras a huge advantage over them when the rallies stopped being stationary. Imo if they were faster they would have had a better chance in some of their hard court encounters with Sampras.

 

[abmk]

It's actually been very hard to breakdown his backhand since he won that first AO. It's been a very very consistent rally shot and whenever he is in trouble he can always just slice it back.

Overall you are correct imo and it's nowhere near as good as agassi's in terms of offense. Right now on the tour many guys have more powerful backhands than Fed. across many surfaces (nalbandian, davydenko, djokovic, murray, safin, nadal, berdych, youzhny, haas, malisse, gasquet etc.).

Fun to watch guys try and break it down, but rarely happens although it's happened a little bit more this year.

agree with you on this.

I don't recall anyone saying anything contrary to the bold part.

 

[abmk]

Incidently, Agassi when young and Courier always(in one direction) were extremely fast. That's why they're multiple grand slam champions from the baseline.

They are multiple GS slams mostly because of their groundstrokes ( & high determination in case of courier ) . Agassi won 5 of his 8 GSs after 98. His movement then was definitely not that good .

I'm yet to see any proof of agassi being anywhere close to chang in terms of movement/speed !

 

[abmk]

Yes, and here's proof of why Agassi's serve is superior to Federers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HbnT_sNeQM

That video proves basically nothing . All it shows is one agassi ace on match point , yeah what a big proof of agassi's serve being better than federer's :lol:

 

[flying24]

They are multiple GS slams mostly because of their groundstrokes ( & high determination in case of courier ) . Agassi won 5 of his 8 GSs after 98. His movement then was definitely not that good .

I'm yet to see any proof of agassi being anywhere close to chang in terms of movement/speed !

Why even bother. Some people obviously have their Sampras/Agassi hardon which will never go down. Continue on and next thing you will have to argue with these fanatical nuts why Sampras doesnt have one of the greatest backhands ever and Agassi not one of the best volleys ever.

 

[abmk]

Why even bother. Some people obviously have their Sampras/Agassi hardon which will never go down. Continue on and next thing you will have to argue with these fanatical nuts why Sampras doesnt have one of the greatest backhands ever and Agassi not one of the best volleys ever.

ha ha :lol:

 

[flying24]

ha ha :lol:

Just picture it coming next.

"Sampras does have one of the best backhands ever. It is way better than Federer's, and just as good as Connors's or Agassi. You must not have watched Sampras play in his prime to realize this."

"Agassi volleys way better than Federer, and in fact just a well as Edberg or Rafter. You would realize this if you actually watched Agassi play in his prime rather than the end of his career."

 

[380pistol]

lol, I said he is one of the top 5 movers in the history of the game for sure and you disagreed ; I showed that the same website which you referred to had him as the best , forget about 2nd/3rd/4th/5th ! You were OWNED, that's it :lol:

I didn't bring up that site, because these sort of sites are not absolute proof of anything ... its an opinion of experts . However if he has been rated as the best there, it means he must atleast be good enough to be in top 5 in the movement criteria. Most( rather all ) of the former players and the current ones surely would agree that his movement is phenomenal and good enough to be in the top 5 of all time

When did I ever say federer's backhand is in the top 10/top 15 or something like that !?

All I said was federer's BH was not far behind agassi's and the two are on the same level on faster courts !

Shut up!!!!!!! Let's see this when the article names Federer the greatest mover, I got owned. Yet when that same greatest shots breakdown has Agassi on the shortlist for the forehand, but Federer nowhere to be found on the backhand what does that make you???

Then you claim they are no proof of anything.... yet had no problem riding with them when they anointed Roger the greatest mover. Hypocrite.

I guess I don't only own, I'm puttting you out to rent!!!!!!!!!

You say you never said Fed's backhand is the top 15. Well Agassi's definitely is, and he's make the top 10 forehands ever. So how exactly if Federer's edge on the forehand greater than Agassi's on the backhand????

 

[380pistol]

Just assume for a second this scenario:

Say agassi has the 9th best FH and the 7th best BH. And Federer has the best FH and the 12th best BH . Now if you make a list of the top 10 FH s and BHs , both agassi's FH and BH will be in there, but only federer's FH will be in there. But according to the ratings, the gap in ratings b/w their FHs is more than the gap in ratings b/w their BHs.

I just explained a scenario "oversimplyfying" in the process. I know it is much more complex than that !

So flawed. Agassi maybe has the best backhand ever (top 3 at worst probably) and his forehand is in the top 10.

Federer is in a dogfight (with Lendl, Sampras and even Courier) for best forehand ever (open era and even ali time), but his backhand may not even make the top 20.

Again check the link of best backhand Federer did not make the shortlist...why??? List the best backhands ever and where does Roger's come in?????

If you combine the 2 Dre comes out higher. Like I keep telling you the Agassi has a greater gap on the backhand than Roger does on the forehand.

Lol, if you don't have good anticipation, how can you move well on a tennis court ? You might be fast, but its no good if your anticipation is bad. Your opponents will trick you ! Anticipation is also a part of movement on a tennis court. I never equated it with movement.

So much for knowing the nuances of THE game !

What about Gilgert, Santoro, even Agassi. They all anticipate well and how does that effect movement??? We know what you think about Agassi's movement.

Is anticipation physical or mental???? I wait for you to explain to me how it's physical. One's physical ability (movement) aids them on how they can physically respond to what the brain (mental) anticipates).

No, he doesn't , but he moves well ......

The what was your point about mentioning surfaces???

He doesn't move that well. But yeah, he's not bad by any means.

Your point???

 

[abmk]

Shut up!!!!!!! Let's see this when the article names Federer the greatest mover, I got owned. Yet when that same greatest shots breakdown has Agassi on the shortlist for the forehand, but Federer nowhere to be found on the backhand what does that make you???

Then you claim they are no proof of anything.... yet had no problem riding with them when they anointed Roger the greatest mover. Hypocrite.

I guess I don't only own, I'm puttting you out to rent!!!!!!!!!

lol, I said you got OWNED because you were the one who brought up that website and you were the one who said federer's movement isn't even in the top5 whereas that site had him as the best .

I didn't/don't base my opinion on what that site says or for that matter on what any other site says !

Its quite obvious to the "unbiased" eye that he is definitely in the top5 in history in terms of movement .

 

[abmk]

What about Gilgert, Santoro, even Agassi. They all anticipate well and how does that effect movement??? We know what you think about Agassi's movement.

Is anticipation physical or mental???? I wait for you to explain to me how it's physical. One's physical ability (movement) aids them on how they can physically respond to what the brain (mental) anticipates).

Anticipation is of course a mental aspect. I never said it is a physical aspect. However it is an important part of movement as you can move well only if you anticipate well. Good anticipation without good movement isn't that great a combo. On the other hand, good anticipation with good movement is something lethal !

The what was your point about mentioning surfaces???

Your point???

Federer at his peak ( now he is a step slower ) is more comfortable and moves better on clay than rafa does on hard now.

 

[abmk]

Federer is in a dogfight (with Lendl, Sampras and even Courier) for best forehand ever (open era and even ali time), but his backhand may not even make the top 20.

definitely not pete and courier, Fed's forehand is *definitely* better than theirs. Lendl maybe has an argument , but I would still rate federer's higher .

 

[abmk]

am still waiting for something that shows agassi's movement was close to peak chang's at any point in history !

 

[abmk]

So flawed. Agassi maybe has the best backhand ever (top 3 at worst probably) and his forehand is in the top 10.

Federer is in a dogfight (with Lendl, Sampras and even Courier) for best forehand ever (open era and even ali time), but his backhand may not even make the top 20.

Again check the link of best backhand Federer did not make the shortlist...why??? List the best backhands ever and where does Roger's come in?????

If you combine the 2 Dre comes out higher. Like I keep telling you the Agassi has a greater gap on the backhand than Roger does on the forehand.

Its not as simple that . I just showed a "simplified" scenario.

The difference b/w say the 2nd best and 3rd best FH may not be the same as the one b/w 3rd best and the 4th best.

It also depends on the opponent who is playing . For example, a player may have more trouble with federer's variety on BH than with agassi's consistency on his.

Some players would be troubled by federer's BH slice more than andre's consistency on his BH .....

On the other no one would truly be comfortable against the FH of an on-fire federer !

How effective the BHs are also depends on the surface ...

In a Fed-Agassi match, definitely BH edge to agassi , no doubt about that.

It is more complex than just comparing the so called "ratings"... considering all these factors I stand by what I said.

 

[helloworld]

Saying that Federer's backhand rivals Agassi is like saying that Agassi's serve is as good as Federer's. It's utterly rediculous. abmk, go back and read other posters. Almost everyone disagree with you and yet you still keep saying the same thing all over. Don't be so ignorant. Get real.

 

[abmk]

Saying that Federer's backhand rivals Agassi is like saying that Agassi's serve is as good as Federer's. It's utterly rediculous. abmk, go back and read other posters. Almost everyone disagree with you and yet you still keep saying the same thing all over. Don't be so ignorant. Get real.

You are the one who needs to start "reading" and getting real. I said their BHs are close on faster courts , with agassi's being the better one overall .

There is no aspect of agassi's serve that is better than federer's. On the other hand , federer's BH has more variety than agassi's and he is clearly better than agassi in that ..

 

[drakulie]

^^^^abmk, you made a foolish comment. Just move on.

BTW, Fed's backhand is nowehere near the level of Agassi's.

 

[rod99]

You are the one who needs to start "reading" and getting real. I said their BHs are close on faster courts , with agassi's being the better one overall .

There is no aspect of agassi's serve that is better than federer's. On the other hand , federer's BH has more variety than agassi's and he is clearly better than agassi in that ..

stupid post. any player with a 1 handed backhand of course has more variety than a player with 2 hands. fed's backhand isn't in the same league as agassi's. in fact, fed's isn't in the top 25 in the open era (and sampras' isn't in the top 45-50). doesn't mean they had a bad backhand but the rest of their games were so strong that they could dominate with an average backhand

 

[julesb]

stupid post. any player with a 1 handed backhand of course has more variety than a player with 2 hands. fed's backhand isn't in the same league as agassi's. in fact, fed's isn't in the top 25 in the open era (and sampras' isn't in the top 45-50). doesn't mean they had a bad backhand but the rest of their games were so strong that they could dominate with an average backhand

Federer's backhand is atleast much stronger than Sampras's but you are right nowhere near as good as Agassi's still.

Backhands: Agassi>>>Federer>>Sampras

 

[GameSampras]

If Fed's backhand really better than Petes was? Debatable. Sampras' BH was always underrated IMO and I blame it more due to his archaic wilson pro staff as I do his BH in general. Check out Pete's BH today with the new racket technology. Its pretty darn good

 

[380pistol]

lol, I said you got OWNED because you were the one who brought up that website and you were the one who said federer's movement isn't even in the top5 whereas that site had him as the best .

I didn't/don't base my opinion on what that site says or for that matter on what any other site says !

Its quite obvious to the "unbiased" eye that he is definitely in the top5 in history in terms of movement .

If you stopped jocking Federer for about 2.5 seconds you'd understand the reason I posted that link. It was to show (the genral consensus) that Agassi is conidered to among the elite when it comes to forehands and backhands, while Federer will not likely make any list where the best backhands are concerned, so how do you summize Federer's advantage on the forehand is greater than Dre's on the backhand???

Obvious to whom?? You?? I never said Federer's not a great mover, but you unquestionably put him in the top 5 and I said that can be questioned, and just threw out names.

Anticipation is of course a mental aspect. I never said it is a physical aspect. However it is an important part of movement as you can move well only if you anticipate well. Good anticipation without good movement isn't that great a combo. On the other hand, good anticipation with good movement is something lethal !

So you just proved me correct. Movement is physical, anticipation i mental. Many anticipate well but don't have the physical attributes to accentuate it like Roger. Federer has great anticipation, but that's more of a testament to his mental make up, rather than his ability to move.

definitely not pete and courier, Fed's forehand is *definitely* better than theirs. Lendl maybe has an argument , but I would still rate federer's higher .

"Definitely not Pete and Courier. Wow. And you talk about an "unbiased" eye. You kill me. But then again you belive Fed gap on the forehand his bigger than Dre's on the backhand so what else should I expect???

Its not as simple that . I just showed a "simplified" scenario.

The difference b/w say the 2nd best and 3rd best FH may not be the same as the one b/w 3rd best and the 4th best.

It also depends on the opponent who is playing . For example, a player may have more trouble with federer's variety on BH than with agassi's consistency on his.

Some players would be troubled by federer's BH slice more than andre's consistency on his BH .....

On the other no one would truly be comfortable against the FH of an on-fire federer !

How effective the BHs are also depends on the surface ...

In a Fed-Agassi match, definitely BH edge to agassi , no doubt about that.

It is more complex than just comparing the so called "ratings"... considering all these factors I stand by what I said.

Wrong, wrong, and.... oh yes..... wrong!!!!

Again Agassi is considered among the elite on both wings, Federer is not where the backhand is concerned. Agassi will likely make top 10 on both, while Fed likely doesn't make top 20 on the backhand. So how is Roger's gap greater on the forehand, other than in your own mind???

Federer's backhand has been broken down by numerous players (Nadal, Agassi, Hewitt, Nalbandian, Safin, Gasquet, Ljubicic to name a few) and I've documented this with match references showing it's happened on different surfaces. When has Agassi's forehand done the same???

No one would be comfortable vs Federer's forehabd when it on?!? Obviously it's one of the best ever. The debate is Agassi's forehand vs Roger's backhand, and how many (except Pete at times) were able to go at Agassi backhand and have success???

It's simple Federer possesses the better forehand, Agassi the backhand. Now is Federer's edge (forehand to Agassi'd backhand) greater than Agassi's edge (forehand to Roger's backhand)??? No.

 

[lambielspins]

And you talk about an "unbiased" eye. You kill me.

You actually consider yourself a remotedly unbiased eye. That kills me even more. Almost as much as the laughter your hyperventilating posts give me when I browse them.

 

[35ft6]

Sampras was truly unbelievable when he was clicking on all cylinders on a fastish surface, but keep in mind this is a highlight reel.

 

[abmk]

Obvious to whom?? You?? I never said Federer's not a great mover, but you unquestionably put him in the top 5 and I said that can be questioned, and just threw out names.

Rafter - nope , I couldn't even bother contradicting you that time ......
Hewitt , Chang , Nadal - on the same level, I consider federer at his peak slightly better ...

There is also the factor to be considered that federer's economical style ensures he does not 'burn out' quickly through injuries , its not so in the case of nadal,chang,hewitt .....

What you did was similar to mentioning Ivanisevic,krajicek,becker,stich,karlovic (maybe even roddick !) and saying pete's serve is NOT unquestionably in the top5 ( Note: I consider pete's serve as the best ever ! ) . Enough said ....

So you just proved me correct. Movement is physical, anticipation i mental. Many anticipate well but don't have the physical attributes to accentuate it like Roger. Federer has great anticipation, but that's more of a testament to his mental make up, rather than his ability to move.

Wow !!!!!

What sort of logic is that !?

If you don't anticipate well, where exactly do you move ? Isn't anticipation a part of movement in tennis ? Or is it a race where you just sprint ? :lol:

"Definitely not Pete and Courier. Wow. And you talk about an "unbiased" eye. You kill me.

oh yeah !

 

[abmk]

If Fed's backhand really better than Petes was? Debatable. Sampras' BH was always underrated IMO and I blame it more due to his archaic wilson pro staff as I do his BH in general. Check out Pete's BH today with the new racket technology. Its pretty darn good

oh yeah ! next one please !

 

[380pistol]

You actually consider yourself a remotedly unbiased eye. That kills me even more. Almost as much as the laughter your hyperventilating posts give me when I browse them.

I am truly sorry. Really I am. Obviously somewhere along the line I gave you the impression that I actually give a rat's ass about what you think. I deeply apologize for that..... cuz I don't!!!!!!!

 

[380pistol]

Rafter - nope , I couldn't even bother contradicting you that time ......
Hewitt , Chang , Nadal - on the same level, I consider federer at his peak slightly better ...

There is also the factor to be considered that federer's economical style ensures he does not 'burn out' quickly through injuries , its not so in the case of nadal,chang,hewitt .....

What you did was similar to mentioning Ivanisevic,krajicek,becker,stich,karlovic (maybe even roddick !) and saying pete's serve is NOT unquestionably in the top5 ( Note: I consider pete's serve as the best ever ! ) . Enough said ....

"You" consider... what makes your opinion worth anything. You said Federer is Undoubtedly top 5 in movement ever. I said I can question that.

Rafter... are you insane???? He will beat Fed in speet. Solid fotwork. Excellent courtcoverage (maybe even ahead of Roger). He had to, cuz his game was inferior to Roger's. I mean I laugh reading your posts.

Chang, Hewitt, Nadal ... will all beat Roger in a foot race, are better defenders, and cover the coourt just as well, if not better than Federer. Federer has more in reserve and a better arsenal which is what enhances him, not strictly his movement.

Chang, Hewitt, Nadal for eg. will defend better, and get to more balls than Federer period. Where Federer's strength lies is what he can do when he gets to these balls. Hewitt may get to more balls, but Roger can do more with one he gets to. Agaian a testament to Federer's arsenal more than his movement.

Chang, Hewitt and Nadal will draw errors cuz their opponents will have to do more to get balls past them and/or to win points. Fed will as well but not like those 3. Fed's ability to go fromoffense to defense, hit offensive type shots from defensive positions, keep rallies neutral is what pressures his opponent. Federer s also more dangerous on offense than them thus enhancing his defensive capabilies.

Federer has great movement but other attributes that he possess work well for him, while other need to rely strictly on movement more than him.

Save your economical stuff. Pancho, Sampras may be the most economical movers/players ever. Do you know what being a great mover enatils. Obviosly you don't, cuz the man who probably has the title (Borg) you've yet to mention.

I can undoubtedly say say Sampras is top 5 in regards to the serve ever, top 3 and probably best ever, and make arguements to support my belief. And yes Sampras serves better than Federer moves.

Wow !!!!!

What sort of logic is that !?

If you don't anticipate well, where exactly do you move ? Isn't anticipation a part of movement in tennis ? Or is it a race where you just sprint ? :lol:



oh yeah !

I asked you about anyone from Brad Gilbert to Fabrice Santoro. All have excellent anticipation why weren't they considered great movers???

Ancicpation is the mental part, movement is the physical part.

Hence Gilert/Santoro have the mental but not the physical. Blake has great footspeed but is a horrible mover cuz his anticipation as well as his footwork is sub par. He has the physical but not the mental. Federer combines the two very well.

Is the ability to anticipate mental or physical??? Let me know genius.

 

[abmk]

"You" consider... what makes your opinion worth anything. You said Federer is Undoubtedly top 5 in movement ever. I said I can question that.

Rafter... are you insane???? He will beat Fed in speet. Solid fotwork. Excellent courtcoverage (maybe even ahead of Roger). He had to, cuz his game was inferior to Roger's. I mean I laugh reading your posts.

Rafter moves better than federer overall , ha ha. Yeah, that's why he didn't make it to the shortlist in the very same website link that you gave, isn't it ? :lol:

An even bigger lol @ the bold part. So rafter had to cover court better than federer because his game is inferior ? :lol:

Chang, Hewitt, Nadal ... will all beat Roger in a foot race, are better defenders, and cover the coourt just as well, if not better than Federer. Federer has more in reserve and a better arsenal which is what enhances him, not strictly his movement.

Chang, Hewitt, Nadal for eg. will defend better, and get to more balls than Federer period. Where Federer's strength lies is what he can do when he gets to these balls. Hewitt may get to more balls, but Roger can do more with one he gets to. Agaian a testament to Federer's arsenal more than his movement.

Chang, Hewitt and Nadal will draw errors cuz their opponents will have to do more to get balls past them and/or to win points. Fed will as well but not like those 3. Fed's ability to go fromoffense to defense, hit offensive type shots from defensive positions, keep rallies neutral is what pressures his opponent. Federer s also more dangerous on offense than them thus enhancing his defensive capabilies.

Federer has great movement but other attributes that he possess work well for him, while other need to rely strictly on movement more than him.

Save your economical stuff. Pancho, Sampras may be the most economical movers/players ever. Do you know what being a great mover enatils. Obviosly you don't, cuz the man who probably has the title (Borg) you've yet to mention.

@ bold part : tennis is definitely not a foot race, so you need not type all that non-sense .....

I said I'd put them on the same level , but federer tops that list because he is more economical and his movement serves him better in the long run ....

Add to it that nadal isn't yet a great mover on hards, he is very good but not great, hewitt wasn't that comfortable on clay and chang wasn't that comfortable on grass . Is there any surface where federer finds it uncomfortable moving ?

lol @ saving economy stuff for myself. Why ? Because you can't contradict that ? :lol:

Note that I never said federer is the most economical mover or something like that .... or is that too tough to comprehend ?

I haven't watched too much of borg . From whatever I've seen, he was brilliant. Hence I didn't contradict/argue against that ...

I can undoubtedly say say Sampras is top 5 in regards to the serve ever, top 3 and probably best ever, and make arguements to support my belief. And yes Sampras serves better than Federer moves.

How do you compare the two ?

I asked you about anyone from Brad Gilbert to Fabrice Santoro. All have excellent anticipation why weren't they considered great movers???

Anticpation is the mental part, movement is the physical part.

Hence Gilert/Santoro have the mental but not the physical. Blake has great footspeed but is a horrible mover cuz his anticipation as well as his footwork is sub par. He has the physical but not the mental. Federer combines the two very well.

Is the ability to anticipate mental or physical??? Let me know genius.

*yawn *

Do you even try to comprehend what others say !? or do you just say what you want to without even reading what others have written ?

I already said that anticipation is a mental aspect .

When did I ever say anticipation is the only part of movement ? Just great anticipation does not ensure great movement, just as great footspeed doesn't ensure great movement. Its when a person has clearly above average footspeed and anticipation ( & footwork ) , that he becomes a great mover, which federer is . You cannot be a great mover without having all the 3 !