Sampras/Becker vs Nadal/Djokovic??

[Nathaniel_Near]

Sampras vs Becker - 1995 Wimbledon Final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x9i4DAr3qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yejw0l1Dm2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak7nQ-OLr60


Nadal vs Djokovic - 2011 Wimbledon Final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2C9aViTWcE


At the time of these Finals, Sampras and Becker had 5 Slams each, Nadal and Djokovic had 10 and 2 Slams respectively, so the comparative greatness of these players at the time the matches occured are pretty equal.


The 95 Final displays amazing serving as well as some excellent volleys and aggressive game style.

The 2011 Final displays brilliant defense and consistency; an impressively high intensity from the baseline


Which of these matches displays the greater level of grasscourt tennis??

 

[nadalwon2012]

Sampras/Becker by far. Nadal/Federer 2007/2008 Wimbledon is the highest standard though.

 

[stormholloway]

Is this doubles?

 

[kiki]

Sampras vs Becker - 1995 Wimbledon Final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x9i4DAr3qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yejw0l1Dm2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak7nQ-OLr60


Nadal vs Djokovic - 2011 Wimbledon Final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2C9aViTWcE


At the time of these Finals, Sampras and Becker had 5 Slams each, Nadal and Djokovic had 10 and 2 Slams respectively, so the comparative greatness of these players at the time the matches occured are pretty equal.


The 95 Final displays amazing serving as well as some excellent volleys and aggressive game style.

The 2011 Final displays brilliant defense and consistency; an impressively high intensity from the baseline


Which of these matches displays the greater level of grasscourt tennis??

There is no possible comparative.Sampras and Becker played on old grass and Nadal and Djokovic ( or Federer) on current grass.No posible to compare

 

[Mustard]

1995 Wimbledon has the old grass and with old equipment, although the grass was firmer that year due to no rain, meaning higher bounces. The differences between the surfaces were more polarised than ever in the 1990s. 2011 Wimbledon has the new grass which bears more of a resemblence to the Kooyong grass where the Australian Open was played from 1972-1987. The differences between the surfaces in 2011, whilst still there, have considerably narrowed since 1995 so that very few players are like a fish out of water on a certain surface. There's also the decline of serve and volley tennis for several reasons.

 

[deluxe]

Sampras vs Becker - 1995 Wimbledon Final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x9i4DAr3qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yejw0l1Dm2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak7nQ-OLr60


Nadal vs Djokovic - 2011 Wimbledon Final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2C9aViTWcE


At the time of these Finals, Sampras and Becker had 5 Slams each, Nadal and Djokovic had 10 and 2 Slams respectively, so the comparative greatness of these players at the time the matches occured are pretty equal.


The 95 Final displays amazing serving as well as some excellent volleys and aggressive game style.

The 2011 Final displays brilliant defense and consistency; an impressively high intensity from the baseline


Which of these matches displays the greater level of grasscourt tennis??

There's no grass court tennis being played in the Nadal Joker game...

 

[kiki]

There's no grass court tennis being played in the Nadal Joker game...

There´s been no classic grass court play since the middle 90´s.Hewitt-Nalbandian or Nadal-Djokovic finals in old classic grass would be as unreal as a FO final between Connors and Mc Enroe in the early 80´s or between Edberg and Becker in the early 90´s...

 

[Mustard]

There´s been no classic grass court play since the middle 90´s.Hewitt-Nalbandian or Nadal-Djokovic finals in old classic grass would be as unreal as a FO final between Connors and Mc Enroe in the early 80´s or between Edberg and Becker in the early 90´s...

Ivanisevic vs. Rafter in the 2001 Wimbledon final was "classic grass-court play".

 

[kiki]

Ivanisevic vs. Rafter in the 2001 Wimbledon final was "classic grass-court play".

yes, so was Sampras-Rafter in 99 or 2000, probably those 2 matches were the last great S&V matches we will have seen over a decade...for now

 

[Mustard]

yes, so was Sampras-Rafter in 99 or 2000, probably those 2 matches were the last great S&V matches we will have seen over a decade...for now

The reason serve and volley has massively declined goes a lot deeper than the change of grass at Wimbledon, though. Around the early noughties, there just seemed to a load of baseliners coming through and no serve and volleyers. The change of equipment was a big factor, and a narrowing of the contrasts in the surfaces.

 

[Mike Sams]

The reason serve and volley has massively declined goes a lot deeper than the change of grass at Wimbledon, though. Around the early noughties, there just seemed to a load of baseliners coming through and no serve and volleyers. The change of equipment was a big factor, and a narrowing of the contrasts in the surfaces.

Djokovic played a S/V point in the 4th set, catching Nadal off guard.

 

[MichaelNadal]

The grass and strategy there are so different, it's almost like a different sport. You can't watch those highlights and not appreciate true grass-court tennis, the thinking they have to do on that lightning fast grass is amazing. Becker looks like a boss as usual too lol.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

The reason serve and volley has massively declined goes a lot deeper than the change of grass at Wimbledon, though. Around the early noughties, there just seemed to a load of baseliners coming through and no serve and volleyers. The change of equipment was a big factor, and a narrowing of the contrasts in the surfaces.

Exactly. Different ethoses have pervaded through the tennis landscape to an extent which obfuscates the aspects of the query.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Here is one way I posed the question over at tennis lounge, with my mediocre article.

At the time of these Finals, Sampras and Becker had 5 Slams each, Nadal and Djokovic had 10 and 2 Slams respectively, so the comparative greatness of these players at the time the matches occured were pretty equal. The question is, has tennis moved on to better places today, as so many people -- including tennis experts such as John McEnroe or Andre Agassi -- seem to think?

The 1995 Final is impressive in many ways. Much of the tennis played is almost unanswerable due to acute attacking ethos of the tennis. Consistently huge first serves would be bombed by both Sampras and Becker -- two players known to have some of the best serve ability of all time. Also, they would both try to venture to the net as frequently as possible, and with technique that today's top players on the whole can only purely dream of, punched the ball away with power and accuracy for volley winners. Surely, the whole dynamic of this final feels very different to that of 2011; the loss of service for any player could almost signal the end of a set.

The 2011 Final displays brilliant defense and consistency; an impressively high intensity from the baseline. Though the technique of today's players on the volley and serve (at the top of the game at least) is inferior, these players are able to produce a consistency and intensity of play from the baseline that was rarely seen back in the 1990's or even the earlier 2000's. It would be fair to give today's players a distinctive advantage in this respect, seeing as a clear advantage can be given to the serve and volley aspects of the top players in the 1990's. At times, Nadal's and Djokovic's retrieval abilities are utterly mesmorising, and would surely cause greater problems to players such as Becker and Sampras, who would likely become increasingly frustrated.

But, is it enough?

Could the awesomely resilient nature of Nadal's and Djokovic's play stand up to the sort of tennis tactics that are almost unanswerable; after all, what can anybody do about 130mph aces painting the lines or 110 mph second serve aces, or indeed superbly precise volleys; first strike tennis. Could today's players pose enough questions to unsettle the mind of the true aggressors and to sow enough seeds of doubt into their mind to come up with, more often than not, the victory?


This should be interesting to discuss but I must make one thing clear:

Obviously if a player is born into a different time, their tennis will be differently shaped, not just through adapting to different court surfaces, but existing in a landscape of different ethea in which the coaches of the time would lend a different stamp to the young, impressionable mind.

Which ethos, considering all things, is superior?

 

[kiki]

The reason serve and volley has massively declined goes a lot deeper than the change of grass at Wimbledon, though. Around the early noughties, there just seemed to a load of baseliners coming through and no serve and volleyers. The change of equipment was a big factor, and a narrowing of the contrasts in the surfaces.

No, the 90´s had big S&V players, like Pete,Stich,Edberg,Becker,Rafter,Goran and Krajicek, but also phenomenal backcourters like Agassi,Kuerten,Bruguera,Courier,Muster,Chang or Kafelnikov.It clearly had a lot of variety ( like 70´s and 80´s except that there were no touch players in the 90´s).

We have no variety at all and the only man that could have brought it, Mr Federer renounced to that years ago.

Hewitt,Safin,Roddick,Djokovic,Nadal or Murray are one dimension players, no matter how fast or how strong they run or hit the ball.And, definitely, courts, balls and equipments have helped a lot that we see the kind of " tennis" that we have seen over the last decade

 

[Mustard]

No, the 90´s had big S&V players, like Pete,Stich,Edberg,Becker,Rafter,Goran and Krajicek, but also phenomenal backcourters like Agassi,Kuerten,Bruguera,Courier,Muster,Chang or Kafelnikov.It clearly had a lot of variety ( like 70´s and 80´s except that there were no touch players in the 90´s).

I know. I said it changed in the early noughties. This was the time when the established generation, the likes of Sampras, Ivanisevic, Rafter and Henman were still playing serve and volley and playing grass-court tennis in the "traditional way", but the players coming through the ranks were almost all baseliners. The fact that the number of serve and volley players dried up in the early noughties suggests that the change of style goes a lot deeper than just a narrowing of the gaps between the different surfaces.

2002 Wimbledon made it very obvious, though, that something was changing. It was a very strange tournament to say the least, some very surprising results and it was odd seeing serve and volleyers playing well at Wimbledon, like Krajicek, yet getting beaten by much more inexperienced baseliners, like Malisse.

 

[kiki]

I know. I said it changed in the early noughties. This was the time when the established generation, the likes of Sampras, Ivanisevic, Rafter and Henman were still playing serve and volley and playing grass-court tennis in the "traditional way", but the players coming through the ranks were almost all baseliners. The fact that the number of serve and volley players dried up in the early noughties suggests that the change of style goes a lot deeper than just a narrowing of the gaps between the different surfaces.

2002 Wimbledon made it very obvious. It was a very strange tournament to say the least, some very surprising results and it was odd seeing serve and volleyers playing well at Wimbledon, like Krajicek, yet getting beaten by much more inexperienced baseliners, like Malisse.

I just can´t imagine, not being heavily drunk or drugged a Wimbledon final between Hewitt and Nalbandian on old grass ( or nadal-Djokovic, for that matter)...sounds so strange to me as a Ashe-Tanner final on french clay, f.i.

 

[Mustard]

About that 1995 Wimbledon final, Becker apparently won just 15 points on Sampras' serve all match, and 7 of those were double faults!

 

[kiki]

Best matches between Sampras and Boris were all on fast, true indoors.Some of them are the best matches of the 1990´s.