Sara Errani ban increased

[Bartelby]

Her mother has cancer and is a professional pharmacist.

The story is that a professional pharmacist keeps powerful drugs in food preparation areas.

The story is furthermore that the tablets somehow rolled into the broth into which the tortellini were subsequently placed.

She claimed accidental ingestion, and the Tribunal did not disagree, but attributed minor fault due to the carelessness that caused the problem.

Sharapova's story is that she relied on others and that other failed to notice the ban, so once again there is fault but not of a substantial nature.

Letting pova off for the meldonium with a "it didn't help but she should have been careful" is laughably naive imo. She took it for years - had to get it from the Baltics, neither her home country nor residence - and for no actual medical condition. If she does have a medical condition, what does she take for it now?

As to whether or not it helped her, I've read that it helps with recovery, I don't know. She isn't the same since suspension but that could be age/rust. But the point is intent: It's so very obvious that she took it to cheat.

I'm not sure what the case with Errani was. If her mother really has cancer then her story is believable.

 

[EloQuent]

Her mother has cancer and is a professional pharmacist.

The story is that a professional pharmacist keeps powerful drugs in food preparation areas.

The story is furthermore that the tablets somehow rolled into the broth into which the tortellini were subsequently placed.

She claimed accidental ingestion, and the Tribunal did not disagree, but attributed minor fault due to the carelessness that caused the problem.

Sharapova's story is that she relied on others and that other failed to notice the ban, so once again there is fault but not of a substantial nature.

Minor fault for a legit accident = 10 months? Harsh imo.

Sharapova intentionally doped for a decade, and continued after it got formally banned. I don't know how you can defend that

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Kinda makes you wonder why Pova didn't get a harsher punishment.

Apparently meldonium doesn't really do much anyway though so that probably factored in. She also claimed it was accidental, and it wasn't technically on the banned list until very recently.
But still, it's the principle. And she thought it was doing something.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Letting pova off for the meldonium with a "it didn't help but she should have been careful" is laughably naive imo. She took it for years - had to get it from the Baltics, neither her home country nor residence - and for no actual medical condition. If she does have a medical condition, what does she take for it now?

As to whether or not it helped her, I've read that it helps with recovery, I don't know. She isn't the same since suspension but that could be age/rust. But the point is intent: It's so very obvious that she took it to cheat.

I'm not sure what the case with Errani was. If her mother really has cancer then her story is believable.

Could be wrong but as I remember Pova's case linked in to a larger state-sponsored doping effort too.
I know a whole bunch of other Russian athletes got pinged as well. Might not have been meldonium in their case but it looks pretty suss from where I'm sitting.

 

[Mainad]

Unfortunately for your account, the amount of cocaine in his system was so miniscule that it provided physical evidence for his story.

Evidently it wasn't miniscule enough to not show up in a drugs test and cause his initial ban!

Errani had no such evidence and the mother concerned was a trained pharmacist!

Admittedly her story sounds unlikely but she insists it was an accident and if they can give other players the benefit of the doubt, I think they should afford her the same courtesy on this occasion providing she has no history of failing drugs tests of course.

 

[EloQuent]

Could be wrong but as I remember Pova's case linked in to a larger state-sponsored doping effort too.
I know a whole bunch of other Russian athletes got pinged as well. Might not have been meldonium in their case but it looks pretty suss from where I'm sitting.

According to the Wikipedia page for Meldonium, hundreds of athletes were taking it and lying about it, which was why they banned it. Most from eastern Europe. Dunno if it was state sponsored or just availability. But all these athletes thought it helped, and knew that they weren't supposed to be doing it or why lie before it was banned?

Also, it seems to have been developed by the soviets for military use, to build stamina. Who knows if it actually worked but that's comic book creepy stuff right there.

 

[Booger]

Meanwhile the most notorious doper in all of modern sports just won another grand slam lol. Not that I care, but it's a bad look for the sport.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

According to the Wikipedia page for Meldonium, hundreds of athletes were taking it and lying about it, which was why they banned it. Most from eastern Europe. Dunno if it was state sponsored or just availability. But all these athletes thought it helped, and knew that they weren't supposed to be doing it or why lie before it was banned?

Also, it seems to have been developed by the soviets for military use, to build stamina. Who knows if it actually worked but that's comic book creepy stuff right there.

Sounds about right

 

[EloQuent]

Evidently it wasn't miniscule enough to not show up in a drugs test and cause his initial ban!



Admittedly her story sounds unlikely but she insists it was an accident and if they can give other players the benefit of the doubt, I think they should afford her the same courtesy on this occasion providing she has no history of failing drugs tests of course.

Drug tests catch trace amounts actually. I know people who failed tests and legit were clean.

Errani story sounds so weird, but if there's cancer medicine around the house it could have happened. Why would she take it on purpose?

 

[Bartelby]

Because the drug also functions as a masking agent.

Why would she take it on purpose?

 

[Booger]

Why would she take it on purpose?

Cancer drugs are the most abused class of drugs by endurance athletes. For some reason, there's STILL this perception that all PED's = anabolic steroids. How do you think Nadal and Djokovic played high level defensive tennis for endless hours and seemed to be totally recovered a day later?

 

[EloQuent]

Because the drug also functions as a masking agent.

The cancer drug does? Hmm that could be suspicious.

 

[Bartelby]

Wikipedia's politically controversial pages are actually edited by people with right-wing agendas.

The person who developed Wikipedia is actually an Ayn Rand disciple and moves in leftish-liberal circles in Britain.

According to the Wikipedia page for Meldonium, hundreds of athletes were taking it and lying about it, which was why they banned it. Most from eastern Europe. Dunno if it was state sponsored or just availability. But all these athletes thought it helped, and knew that they weren't supposed to be doing it or why lie before it was banned?

Also, it seems to have been developed by the soviets for military use, to build stamina. Who knows if it actually worked but that's comic book creepy stuff right there.

 

[EloQuent]

Wikipedia's politically controversial pages are actually edited by people with right-wing agendas.

The person who developed Wikipedia is actually an Ayn Rand disciple and moves in leftish-liberal circles in Britain.

ok lol that's just conspiracy talk. If anything it has a left bias. And "Ayn Rand disciple leftish-liberal" is a contradiction

Edit- but forget Wikipedia, don't rely on it. Click through the links and go to the sources. Or just Google it and prove it wrong. Either these athletes were taking it or they weren't.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Wikipedia's politically controversial pages are actually edited by people with right-wing agendas.

The person who developed Wikipedia is actually an Ayn Rand disciple and moves in leftish-liberal circles in Britain.

Hahahah what

Not even saying you're wrong but how do you know the first bit? Curious.
Link for Wikipedia being a libertarian-right psyop?

 

[Bartelby]

Sharapova never intentionally doped and that is what two courts decided.

She used it inadvertently after it was banned, like many others.

CAS explicitly criticised WADA for its inadequate attempts to communicate the ban.

Minor fault for a legit accident = 10 months? Harsh imo.

Sharapova intentionally doped for a decade, and continued after it got formally banned. I don't know how you can defend that

 

[Bartelby]

It's a documented fact that is going to be the subject of a legal trial.

He started off a Randist and now moves in neo-liberal circles with a slight leftsh hue, so there is no contradiction.

He is a powerful person as he controls in part how politics is remembered through Wikipedia so part of the governing class cultivates his support.

This is all pretty standard politics.

ok lol that's just conspiracy talk. If anything it has a left bias. And "Ayn Rand disciple leftish-liberal" is a contradiction

 

[EloQuent]

Sharapova never intentionally doped and that is what two courts decided.

She used it inadvertently after it was banned, like many others.

CAS explicitly criticised WADA for its inadequate attempts to communicate the ban.

She took it for a decade. Just an honest mistake? Oops sorry this is a heart medication that's not FDA approved? I didn't realize, thought it was Tums.

 

[Booger]

According to the Wikipedia page for Meldonium, hundreds of athletes were taking it and lying about it, which was why they banned it. Most from eastern Europe.

This makes sense given their economic history. Same with China. Of course they are going to dope as hard as possible. What I've never been able to understand is Italy and Spain's pro-doping culture.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

It's a documented fact that is going to be the subject of a legal trial.

He started off a Randist and now moves in neo-liberal circles, so there is no contradiction.

A trial?
The plot thickens

Hopefully that dastardly wikipedia gets what it deserves

 

[Bartelby]

If you had your reputation tarnished in the pages of something that purports to be objective, then you'd be annoyed too.

A trial?
The plot thickens

Hopefully that dastardly wikipedia gets what it deserves

 

[EloQuent]

It's a documented fact that is going to be the subject of a legal trial.

He started off a Randist and now moves in neo-liberal circles, so there is no contradiction.

ok w/e I don't care. See my edit. It says that it was
1. developed by soviets for military use
2. used by hundreds of athletes
3. said athletes didn't disclose this even when it wasn't banned

which of these facts do you dispute?

 

[Bartelby]

What's not to understand about fame and fortune?

This makes sense given their economic history. Same with China. Of course they are going to dope as hard as possible. What I've never been able to understand is Italy and Spain's pro-doping culture.

 

[EloQuent]

This makes sense given their economic history. Same with China. Of course they are going to dope as hard as possible. What I've never been able to understand is Italy and Spain's pro-doping culture.

Spoiler

because they're sort of 3rd world countries too?

 

[Deleted member 688153]

If you had your reputation tarnished in the pages of something that purports to be objective, then you'd be annoyed too.

Who has legal liability for what's on there though? It can be edited by literally anyone

 

[Bartelby]

1. Devoloped in Latvia when it was part of the USSR.

2. Used by hundreds of athletes.

3. Some may have disclosed it but Sharapova certainly didn't.

ok w/e I don't care. See my edit. It says that it was
1. developed by soviets for military use
2. used by hundreds of athletes
3. said athletes didn't disclose this even when it wasn't banned

which of these facts do you dispute?

 

[Russeljones]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/44440473

This seems pretty harsh. It looks to me like the tennis authorities are making an example of one player to make their anti doping measures look 'tough.' Compare it to Kodra, a clear drugs cheat who was not punished properly.

Is this ban justified?

Considering how long she got away with doping, this is a slap on the wrist.

 

[Bartelby]

The writer/editor and the publisher both have legal responsibility, but the publisher is usually the one with the deep pockets.

Who has legal liability for what's on there though? It can be edited by literally anyone

 

[EloQuent]

Who has legal liability for what's on there though? It can be edited by literally anyone

Not exactly. They have mods and lock pages sometimes. (Don't construe this to imply agreement with the other person about Wikipedia)

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Not exactly. They have mods and lock pages sometimes. (Don't construe this to imply agreement with the other person about Wikipedia)

True. Things get moderated pretty quickly in my experience. And yeah, some pages are locked.

 

[Bartelby]

If it is not bureaucratically defined as a doping agent, then she wasn't doping.

And in any event there is no pharmacological evidence for it being a PED.

WADA banned it as part of the ongoing campaign against 'Russian meddling', as I think it's now called.

Considering how long she got away with doping, this is a slap on the wrist.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

The writer/editor and the publisher both have legal responsibility, but the publisher is usually the one with the deep pockets.

I guess we'll see how it goes.
I hope the courts aren't going to start crushing free speech or free publishing or anything.

 

[Bartelby]

Governments crush free speech, as they've done in America, Britain and Australia.

Courts merely administer the law as it exists.

I guess we'll see how it goes.
I hope the courts aren't going to start crushing free speech or free publishing or anything.

 

[EloQuent]

1. Devoloped in Latvia when it was part of the USSR.

2. Used by hundreds of athletes.

3. Some may have disclosed it but Sharapova certainly didn't.

oh wait my mistake, 1 wasn't from Wikipedia. It was from Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tbox-five-facts-about-meldonium-idUSKCN1G20IT
Scientist Ivars Kalvins invented meldonium in the 1970s when Latvia was still a Soviet republic. It was used to boost the stamina of Soviet troops fighting at high altitudes in Afghanistan in the 1980s, Kalvins told a Latvian newspaper in 2009

 

[EloQuent]

If it is not bureaucratically defined as a doping agent, then she wasn't doping

Nah. She's taking shady stuff for a decade with clear intention to boost performance, ima call her a doper.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Governments crush free speech, as they've done in America, Britain and Australia.

Courts merely administer the law as it exists.

Judicial overreach is definitely a thing though.

 

[Bartelby]

You can't be talking about Errani as she was convicted of a one-off offence, so make yourself clear in future.

In fact, why don't you make yourself clearer now?

I am not talking about whatever she was caught with, you dolt.

 

[Bartelby]

So a drug manufacturer is spruiking the benefits of a drug he makes money from.

What a revelation!

oh wait my mistake, 1 wasn't from Wikipedia. It was from Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tbox-five-facts-about-meldonium-idUSKCN1G20IT
Scientist Ivars Kalvins invented meldonium in the 1970s when Latvia was still a Soviet republic. It was used to boost the stamina of Soviet troops fighting at high altitudes in Afghanistan in the 1980s, Kalvins told a Latvian newspaper in 2009

 

[Bartelby]

I seriously doubt that's the case in Britain and Australia, but in countries where law is a form of undergraduate philosophy this is the case.

Judicial overreach is definitely a thing though.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I am getting my pop-corn ready, and saving this thread for reading, in the sure event that it gets axed.

 

[Booger]

I am getting my pop-corn ready and saving this thread for reading, in the sure event that it gets axed.

Have TW mods ever said why we're supposed to pretend PED abuse isn't rampant in tennis?

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Have TW mods ever said why we're supposed to pretend PED abuse isn't rampant in tennis?

Tennis has never been more clean than nowadays.

I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[ghostofMecir]

They now need to ban the rest of the WTA tour.

 

[Bartelby]

All the usual suspects are easily tracked and eliminated from the game, so all that is left is error or desperation.

On the other hand, sophisticated forms of doping can't and won't be caught and they don't even have the budget to try.

Tennis has never been more clean than nowadays.

I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[MatsPhilander]

 

[Rogerjohnson81]

.

 

[Bartelby]

The doctrine is strict liability. If it is in your system you are guilty. It's really then a question of how serious an error you made.

She got ten months because her contribution was minor and this is entirely in line with previous suspensions, whereas two months was not.

Absolutely disgusting ruling. The ruling body admitted the most likely explanation for the cancer drugs present in her system is her mothers cancer medication finding its way into her food inadvertently. Holding a player responsible for unintentional consumption is outrageous. Given the amount of pollutants in our water and food supply and how animals are farmed people can literally consume anything without knowing it. Go to a restaurant and someone in the kitchen makes a mistake and you can be banned from sport. That is ridiculous. Controls on doping should be to prevent clear cases where a person consumes large quantity of some performance enhancer against the rules. That’s a clear case. The governing bodies should always give benefit of the doubt to players when their career is at stake. Small traces of anything is not indicative of voluntary consumption. Players are not going to send everything they eat to a lab to be analyzed before they eat it.

 

[Purplemonster]

When is Serena going to get caught ??

 

[AM75]

Unfortunate news though. I know I may be alone on this but I actually enjoyed her run to the Roland Garros finals in 2012.

Now one can say that the WTA had 2 "cheaters" in 1 RG final.

 

[AM75]

When is Serena going to get caught ??

Never, she's too good for the WTA business.