Scrap String - Rules when to Ditch vs. Toss

[LOBALOT]

Sorry... I meant Ditch vs. Keep...

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I am sure I am gong to get a variety of opinions but might as well ask.

I went downstairs and decided to clean up my stringing area. I had 17 foot remnants from reels of this string and 16 foot remnants of that. I sorted through it trying to figure out if the string is something I should keep or if I should toss it.

What rules do use to determine if you should keep a piece of string or toss it based on the length you have and it's composition?

For example I had a 16 foot scrap of 16G OGSM and I thought why the heck am I keeping this as it had to be $2 worth of string which I would probably never use.

 

[mad dog1]

16’ and 17’ lengths can be used for crosses. 16’ is just long enough for a mid to midplus racquet with 18 crosses while the 17’ length is just long enough for a racquet with 19 crosses if you tie your starting knot very close to one end to minimize scrap. You may also need a starting clamp as a bridge to reach the tension head.

 

[Wes]

Personally, I keep almost every remnant. Especially, segments that are 13' or longer.
And "why?", you may ask.

17' is often the amount I use for the (nylon based) crosses on certain frames that have even 19 crosses (and that's even not resorting to using a starting knot).
16' is the exact amount I use for the (nylon based) crosses on a particular frame (that happens to have 18 crosses).
Also, Wilson Spin Effect frames, and Prince ESP frames need even less string for their (14, 15 or 16) crosses (in the event that one comes my way).
13' is the amount I needed for a specific purpose (albeit, very few).

Scrap string is handy for other things (tension calibrator string... starting clamp bridge string... blocked hole prevention... making a "starting pin"... actually weighing a string segment to then enter values into Racquet Tune... lightly "burning" the inside wall of a grommet that has [or you suspect has] a rough edge/burr that may have caused a previous snapped string... etc., etc.)

Also, if you plan ahead (by measuring exactly how much is left on a reel that's getting low, but not very close to it's end) you will likely be able to prevent yourself from having unusable lengths left.
Example: I measured how much was left on one of my syn. gut reels. It was exactly 63'7" (or 763").
So, before I go cutting, say another 18' or 19' piece off of that reel, I do a little math.
Math reveals that, if I don't cut any more string from that particular reel, it has exactly enough string, to do just the crosses, in a 95" frame (which has 18 crosses) exactly 4 more times. So, by choosing to reserve that particular reel, solely for those particular string jobs, there is zero wasted.

 

[Irvin]

I keep a few remnants of SG string to use for bridging but only a few. Other than that if the remnant is not 20' it's gone.

 

[Karma Tennis]

You could use the scrap pieces and experiment with TriBrids, QuadBrids, PentaBrids, etc.

 

[10shoe]

The only thing Wes did not mention is that in a Weed racquet with Live Periphery stringing you need an 8 ft length of "something else". So, even something that short may come in handy some day. Additionally, the crosses in many squash racquets can be completed with 11 ft of string. But in both those cases we are talking nylons. Finding a use for 11 and 12 ft lengths of poly is another story. I keep them 'cause I'm a stubborn case but will gladly donate them to someone doing TriBrids, QuadBrids and PentaBrids.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, there's really no reason why you couldn't use 11 or 12 ft of poly up in a full poly job if you are willing to do a Live Periphery type box like on a Weed. Offer rescinded till further notice....

 

[Irvin]

@10shoe If I ever string a Weed frame with PPS I will start Saving the string I use to string it.

EDIT: Correction, I just thought I would probably use string off a reel so it will not matter.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

anything 16' or longer I keep for crosses
15' and shorter is a bit hard to find a cross situation for,,, but some of the spin-effect Wilson racquet work..

 

[10shoe]

@Irvin

If you are willing to use the "Yonex Loop" on racquets that are not Yonex why not extend that open mindedness of yours to using the Weed Live Periphery system on racquets that are not Weed?

 

[10shoe]

I have one customer who plays the Steam 99s with Alu/VS Gut. Has 2 racquets and strings them same time. Have 12 ft of leftover VS at the end. Useless for virtually everything except crosses in squash....which is exactly what I used it for.

 

[Irvin]

@Irvin

If you are willing to use the "Yonex Loop" on racquets that are not Yonex why not extend that open mindedness of yours to using the Weed Live Periphery system on racquets that are not Weed?

I would, but I thought we were talking about stringing Weed rackets or any other racket that used abnormal string lengths.

 

[10shoe]

I would, but I thought we were talking about stringing Weed rackets or any other racket that used abnormal string lengths.

I thought we were talking about scrap string.

 

[10shoe]

So, my own racquet needed strings today and I decided to see how it plays strung "like a Weed".

First I installed 27' of Addiction 16, doing 12 M's and 16 X's in a 50/50 pattern with one half of the string doing all the odd x's starting with 3X and the other half doing all the even X's starting with 4X. I did this so I wouldn't have any loose mains in the hitting zone. Then I used an 8 ft scrap of GSG 17 Black starting with the 7LM and did the peripheral m's and x's.

Did all the strings at the same tension and DT is a bit higher than usual. This is likely because all the odd x's get pulled twice...first held with starting clamp, and then fixed clamp after the even x is tensioned.

Will play test and report back.

 

[10shoe]

Hit with the racquet against a wall and actually I think I like it better this way. Very easy on my aching wrist.

 

[Wes]

Hey @10shoe, would you mind showing us several photos of that frame? I'm interested to see how it came out.
Particularly, those loops of string on the outside of the frame from doing the odd X's with one end, and the even X's with the other.

BTW, periphery stringing was exactly what I used that 13' piece for (that I referenced in post #3).

I can't remember ever putting a really stretchy multifilament, solely in the crosses, of a PS85.
However, with only 18 crosses in that 85" head, that would be an awfully short length required. Something less than 15' for sure... probably even less than 14'?
I have strung a PS85 with only 29' before (very stretchy multi @ #60, 1pc. ATW).

 

[10shoe]

Hey @Wes

I thought black would look good but frankly it made watching for crossovers impossible. Since it's my personal racquet I just closed my eyes and took my chances. Looking at it afterwards there's definitely extra runs of string but no actual crossovers but I needed a magnifying glass to see it at all. BTW, 7 ft of string would suffice for the racquet below.

 

[travlerajm]

I keep anything longer than a few feet. For my own racquets, there is no reason why I can’t use multiple pieces with multiple tie-offs.

 

[10shoe]

I haven't put any polyester strings in my own racquets in years so I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who does and is willing to string their racquet up the same way I did it. So, a full poly job but with the outside m's and x's done peripherally. I'd be interested in hearing whether there were noticeable differences in performance.

 

[10shoe]

A recent patient. Counted a total of 20 knots.

 

[Irvin]

I haven't put any polyester strings in my own racquets in years so I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who does and is willing to string their racquet up the same way I did it. So, a full poly job but with the outside m's and x's done peripherally. I'd be interested in hearing whether there were noticeable differences in performance.

I can do that if no one else volunteers but I’m not going to drop the outer string by 5 lbs each step though, with poly I use much lower tensions so the drop should (IMO) be lower around 8% each drop.

 

[10shoe]

Thanks Irvin!

I did the entire racquet at 45 lbs. Didn't do any tension drops. Just used a scrap string to do the outside m's and x's. Only follow Weed's proportional instruction when I'm doing Weed's. Doin Weed hehehehehe....

 

[Wes]

A recent patient. Counted a total of 20 knots.

Ohh. My. God.
WTF????

 

[Wes]

I haven't put any polyester strings in my own racquets in years so I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who does and is willing to string their racquet up the same way I did it. So, a full poly job but with the outside m's and x's done peripherally. I'd be interested in hearing whether there were noticeable differences in performance.

I already have.
A Prince Phantom Pro 100P with (black) poly center and (green) syn. gut periphery, at #44 throughout. Used 24' of poly (for the center 10 mains and center 12 crosses) and 12.5' of syn. gut for the rest.
Like your experiment, I too was just messing around with one of my own frames and didn't pay a ton of attention to making all the strings lay perfectly.
No true crossovers on it, however, not everything is laying exactly the way I would like.
However, part of my own criteria in doing it was to utilize only the designated tie-off locations - which I did.

I'd post pictures, but don't know how many hoops I'd have to jump through to make that happen.
I see that you used imgbb.com to do your photos. Is that pretty painless, or would you recommend another service for sharing photos? It seems that imgbb.com has a 16MB limit.
Suggestions from others also welcome.

 

[10shoe]

Hey @Wes

Yeah, I really like imgbb but I don't have an account with them or anything. I'm a perpetual guest. Very easy to upload compared to other services I've used. If they are counting how much space I am using that's news to me but an average photo is about 100kb so it may be a while before they clamp down on me.

The thing I am wondering about with this peripheral stringing is whether there is a benefit to the player. So far, I only have one outing under my belt and that being against a wall and with nylon. My wrist is not in the best shape so normally I find volleying against the wall irritates it. Not so with this setup, which I find intriguing.

 

[Wes]

Ok, let's see if this works...

 

[Irvin]

Thanks Irvin!

I did the entire racquet at 45 lbs. Didn't do any tension drops. Just used a scrap string to do the outside m's and x's. Only follow Weed's proportional instruction when I'm doing Weed's. Doin Weed hehehehehe....

That sounds more like a Lendl pattern than Weed's method of stringing. http://weedracquet.com/media/7eafaaed2a7e4bbffff82aa7f000101.pdf

 

[Wes]

That sounds more like a Lendl pattern than Weed's method of stringing. http://weedracquet.com/media/7eafaaed2a7e4bbffff82aa7f000101.pdf

How can you be certain of whether Lendl (or Bosworth) is reducing the tension at the periphery or not?
Rather... what, do you feel, is the difference between the "Lendl" pattern and Weed's pattern?

 

[Irvin]

How can you be certain of whether Lendl (or Bosworth) is reducing the tension at the periphery or not?
Rather... what, do you feel, is the difference between the "Lendl" pattern and Weed's pattern?

I can’t but in 10shoe’s post above he said he did the entire racket at 45 pounds. Weed’s instruction uses 2 piece stringing with 1 piece for the mains and another for the crosses.

EDIT: In and earlier post he said he was looking for someone to do a full poly job but with the outside m's and x's done peripherally. I assumed he meant to drop tension as in Weed’s instructions. I strung one of my racket with FB of poly @45/41 dropping the outer string by 4 lbs but have not played yet.

EDIT: I chose not to drop tension by 5 lbs because I started with 45 lbs not the higher tension Weed calls for with the larger head rackets.

 

[Irvin]

Rather... what, do you feel, is the difference between the "Lendl" pattern and Weed's pattern?

I forgot the second half of your question. In your pictures (looks nice by the way) you used a different string for the outer 3 mains and crosses. Weed uses one string for the mains and another for the crosses. They drop the cross tension by 5 lbs from the mains so if you were stringing a Weed racket at 65 lbs for mains you would drop the center crosses to 60. The outer mains would be at 60-55-50. And the top and bottom crosses would be at 55-50-45.

What I think I will feel in the racket that I strung if it will not feel that much different. But because I dropped out outer string in 4# steps it will be taking a lot of the pressure off the outer corners of the frame. Notice in Weed's instructions the max tension is 75# except if you're using poly or Kevlar then the max is 70#. My guess is the stiffer strings put a greater force on the corners that a string that absorbs more of the shock because it has more stretch.

 

[10shoe]

I don't know what the Lendl pattern is but I am wondering whether my customers using full beds of poly would find their racquets more comfortable/playable if the outside mains and crosses were done peripherally. Added bonus... I get rid of several dozen 11 ft lengths of miscellaneous polys.

 

[Irvin]

@10shoe i did string my racket with 1 piece not that it makes a difference. I normally string the racket with Stringway’s Online TA which results in lower tensions in mains and crosses than 45/41. The Weed method felt A little tighter to me.

I’m going to string it again but use a white string, 2 piece stringing, and use the Stringway suggestions for the center mains and crosses. I’ll still drop the 3 outer strings by 4# but this time I’m going to mark the strings next to the grommets on the outer strings. I’d be interested in seeing if the strings have any movement after they are strung.

 

[Irvin]

@10shoe when you talk about the live peripheral stringing using 8’ of the Durban CDT string that string does not come in anything but 8’ length I think. It is a very stretchy string. I would not use scrap length of 8’ string for Durban stringing. On the chance that I get string my first Weed racket ever I still would not save a 8’ section of string. I would just cut 8’ of ZX or ZX Pro off a reel.

 

[10shoe]

@Irvin

Durbin has been out of business for eons. If you order string from Weed, the stuff that they pass off as Durbin string is AG Guterman's cheapest nylon, genuine garbage.

BTW, the Weed link you posted is for their line of 125 sq in racquets...in this neck of the woods seen as frequently as unicorns.

 

[Irvin]

@Irvin

Durbin has been out of business for eons. If you order string from Weed, the stuff that they pass off as Durbin string is AG Guterman's cheapest nylon, genuine garbage.

BTW, the Weed link you posted is for their line of 125 sq in racquets...in this neck of the woods seen as frequently as unicorns.

The only reference I’ve seen to 8’ sections of string was for Durbin stringing (Durbin box) was here https://weedracquets.com/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=2 That pattern show 36’ for normal string and 8’ for the Durbin box.

Live periphery stringing does not use the Durbin String, those patterns are in the link above also. Those patterns remind me of Sergetti stringing or proportional stringing.

 

[Irvin]

I haven't put any polyester strings in my own racquets in years so I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who does and is willing to string their racquet up the same way I did it. So, a full poly job but with the outside m's and x's done peripherally. I'd be interested in hearing whether there were noticeable differences in performance.

Now you’ve got me wondering. Just what peripheral strginging patter are you suggesting? When using Weed’s pattern they vary the tension on all mains and crosses from the center out.

 

[10shoe]

Live

Now you’ve got me wondering. Just what peripheral strginging patter are you suggesting? When using Weed’s pattern they vary the tension on all mains and crosses from the center out.

Very simple. Let's say you normally string your racquet with Alu Power at 50 lbs and it has a 16 x 19 pattern. All the strings tensioned at 50 lbs.

The experiment: String 12 center mains and 15 center crosses with 1 piece of Alu Power. All strings tensioned at 50 lbs. Then take an 8 ft piece of Alu Power and do the outside mains and crosses in a box fashion also at 50 lbs.

That is essentially what I did with my racquet except I used nylon, did it at 45 lbs, and used a 50/50 variant to do the center mains and crosses.

I would do this myself if my wrist could tolerate it but it's not up to it.

BTW, thanks for asking!

 

[Irvin]

@10shoe ok I understand now but that presents a problem (to me.) If I only string the 2 outer mains and crosses with the box I end at the same point I start and have 2 knots in that corner. I’ll have to check and see if I have a racket that fits well with that pattern.

EDIT: Assuming I do have a racket that fits that pattern, I’m going to use the Stringway TA so I keep the tension difference on mains and crosses instead of using 1 constant tension. Sounds interesting.

 

[10shoe]

Yes. One of the advantages of the Blade Lite is that it has 20 crosses and lots of large grommets. I don't know if you can tell from the picture in post #16 but I tied off the white string (Addiction) at 12LT and 13 RT. Didn't have to enlarge anything either.

 

[Irvin]

I plan on only using normal tie off locations. If I use the 50/50 pattern for the center mains and crosses of the racket and I’ll have one tie off at the bottom and I can use the opposite side for start and end of my box pattern that way everything still looks normal.

 

[10shoe]

Have you ever used this 50/50 variant? I mean, it's not suitable for all racquets. Wouldn't work on an EXO3 racquet or a Pure Aero for instance.

 

[Irvin]

Have you ever used this 50/50 variant? I mean, it's not suitable for all racquets. Wouldn't work on an EXO3 racquet or a Pure Aero for instance.

Yes I have and no it wouldn’t on many racket where the crosses must be strung 1 way where there are dedicated in and out grommet holes.

EDIT: You could string a Ported racket like the main + box pattern on the old T2000, then you a scrap section String with 2 piece 50/50 for the center crosses. Not recommended but maybe possible.

EDIT: you could also string some rackets except for the outer strings but I’d prefer to string the crosses top down. Then finish with a scrap string doing the outer box.

 

[Irvin]

@10shoe just strung 2 rackets with Black Code 4S last night and have a scrap left over I’d normally toss. I’ll try to string up a frame with the “Durbin” box today.

 

[10shoe]

I used the pattern I did because I didn't want a loose 6th main. The gifs below are kind of old and somewhat wrong but illustrate well enough that there is more than one way to do a 50/50 pattern. I basically used the second method.

 

[Irvin]

@10shoe well I just finished stringing the racket. As far as possible it can be done but with a shaped poly string like I was using anything String that was not pre woven twisted badly. IMO not worth doing if you can’t get away from the twisting. Also the box pattern on the outside of the frame is hard to weave. If I do it again I would try to preweave it just after the finishing up he mains. I think 10’ of string would be more than enough to preweave it all. I’ll try to hit with it later and let you know if I can tell a difference.

 

[Irvin]

^^^ nice GIFs

 

[10shoe]

It occurs to me that on a machine with 6pt mounting that 2nd 50/50 pattern could be problematic. I have a 2 pt mount so for me it's very easy, but the way I do it requires using a starting clamp on the odd crosses. Every one of them.

 

[Irvin]

Not sure which 2 pt machine you have but if you have a glide bar machine (without short rails) and you can move clamps to either side it is easy if you have fixed clamps different story whether you have 2 pt or 6 point. I used a flying clamp for the bottom and my fixed clamps for the top. May be better to use flying clamps for both sides. You may also need a starting clamp.

 

[LOBALOT]

Wow, it is interesting what happens with these threads but I am having fun watching!!!!

OK, I will hang on to the scrap string no matter the length.

 

[10shoe]

Wow! An OP who didn't just start a thread and then disappear!

 

[1HBHfanatic]

I remember seeing a picture online of someone using like 20 different lengths/colors of strings to complete a racquet
looked,,,,,, ummmm interesting,, and great for holidays and Christmas and stuff,, haaaa
had more than 4 color strings on it and lots, lots, lots of knots, haaaa