Topspin Shot
Legend
He needs more shoulder tilt.
Secret of fast serve
- Thread starter sureshs
- Start date
He needs more shoulder tilt.
Faithfulfather
Rookie
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner.
mawashi
Hall of Fame
Can't wait till he gets from bionic to invisible then we don't have to read the crap.
arche3
Banned
I second and third this notion. Mods please make it so.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
tennis balla, the kevlar mains were strung at 18-19 lbs., but were the syn gut crosses also strung at 18-19 lbs. as well?
mawashi
Hall of Fame
BP is totally different, BP would argue that small is big and big is small till the thread gets deleted lol!
The difference between a baby babbling and suresh's posts is baby makes more sense.
Cow... moo
clap clap!Don't rotate the shoulders just more force into the court.... that's how to do a face plant...
:evil:
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
what is the BESt excercise to increase flexiblity in your shoulder and Arm ? this will increase your serve speed, many pros know this and do this training ?
Lots of you guys don't know this, but not every court has a court right next to it. In the case of my vid, there is around 12' of courtspace, used as an ENTRANCE to the courts, right where I was serving into, so NO wide serves can ever hit a side fence, where there isn't one.
As for height of bounce, you are correct, no way to really tell, BUT .....
Notice on Alex's first slice serve wide, someone caught it one handed, very casually. Notice on my serves, Alex made no attempt, and ware were both goofing around a bit. I did miss another because I was being too casual.
Can YOU catch a first slice serve one handed? If you can, it's not very fast.
As for height of bounce, you are correct, no way to really tell, BUT .....
Notice on Alex's first slice serve wide, someone caught it one handed, very casually. Notice on my serves, Alex made no attempt, and ware were both goofing around a bit. I did miss another because I was being too casual.
Can YOU catch a first slice serve one handed? If you can, it's not very fast.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
Yes, whole racket was strung that low. You get some big time string movement at that tension as well. I was using a 16x18 racket at the time so it was a big problem.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
LeeD you're still going on about your serve?
Topspin Shot
Legend
Why don't you use this tension on a regular basis?
r2473
G.O.A.T.
I'm going to try this just for fun.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
I didn't like the feel and the fact that the strings moved around so much.
r2473, when you try this use a thinner gauge. We used kevlar 18gauge for the mains and 17gauge syn gut for the crosses. The strings broke somewhat quick, the crosses, but it was fun to try out. Let me know how you get on with it. The one technical thing he said is its gotta be strung on a constant pull stringing machine, so basically any electronic stringer. Don't attempt it on your table top Klippermate haha.
dunlop_fort_knox
Professional
the zen of accumulating a massive post count...
I'd never found huge difference switching racquets/strings when you swing full out. They tested a pro with a wood racquet and he served with a few mphs of his regular modern racquet.
The strings and racquet make the biggest difference for dinkers ironically. If you dink the ball - then a very bouncy string can enable you to keep more of the incoming ball speed.., IMHO.
The strings and racquet make the biggest difference for dinkers ironically. If you dink the ball - then a very bouncy string can enable you to keep more of the incoming ball speed.., IMHO.
forthegame
Hall of Fame
wrong thread
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Are you getting the best out of your current flexibility? A coach I had the other day was saying you should feel some stretch in your front shoulder in the power position..
That is to say you are coiling back as if you are going to throw the racquet and the from of your shoulder area will feel a stretch (you won't be facing forward - the fully coiled position).
I think that if you were to get into this position you would gain more power and increase your flexibility naturally. At my gym they have a this handly 'flexibility' trainer for your hamstrings. Now I don't think it really works - however if you go do say squats or leg presses (with your leg high on the plate) you will forcibly stretch your hamstrings. And thus on the trainer you become more flexible.
In short if you want a more flexible arm serving you have to make sure you are really stretching it out some when you serve.. I never heard that before - but man it seemed to work. I never really felt that stretch before when I served.
Steady Eddy
Legend
It's because of this post that I decided to get my racquet strung. Since I already play with a 115 in^2 head, and am using a power string, I'm getting it at 40 lbs. I hope that will give me something like the power and spin you describe.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Not going to work with nylon or gut.
Steady Eddy
Legend
In the post he says 'synthetic gut', which is what I'm getting.
mawashi
Hall of Fame
What took you so long and the term is sumo sash... Your point being??
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Topspin Shot
Legend
In the post he says 'synthetic gut', which is what I'm getting.
He did it with a Kevlar/syn gut hybrid. Low tensions can work with these hybrids or full poly setups, not full syn gut.
mawashi
Hall of Fame
Just dislocate your shoulder and you'll have complete flexibility. Not too sure about the serve or pros bit.
GuyClinch, you need to know......
Wood rackerts can come very close to the service speeds of modern rackets because the sweetspot on wood racket's is higher than on modern rackets, giving you effectively a longer lever.
BUT, the late '70's aluminum rackets serve the fastest of all rackets, having both the higher sweetspot and the ease of swing of modern rackets. I think the YonexOPSGreens were the fastest serving racket's ever made, at any time.
Now longer is good for percentage, but lots of players have trouble serving really fast, AND play a decent game of tennis with 29" long rackets, so they don't seem to count.
Modern rackets have the sweetspot much lower than the old rackets, effectively shortening the lever arm.
Wood rackerts can come very close to the service speeds of modern rackets because the sweetspot on wood racket's is higher than on modern rackets, giving you effectively a longer lever.
BUT, the late '70's aluminum rackets serve the fastest of all rackets, having both the higher sweetspot and the ease of swing of modern rackets. I think the YonexOPSGreens were the fastest serving racket's ever made, at any time.
Now longer is good for percentage, but lots of players have trouble serving really fast, AND play a decent game of tennis with 29" long rackets, so they don't seem to count.
Modern rackets have the sweetspot much lower than the old rackets, effectively shortening the lever arm.
It has always been like that
Topspin Shot
Legend
With a straight arm, unscrew a lightbulb hanging from the ceiling. This is ISR (along with some forearm pronation).
user92626
G.O.A.T.
REally? I'm lefty. Is it still unscrewing a bulb?
Easiest analogy for me is knocking a door. Works well too when the door is a plane in front of you. Set the plane/contact point right up against your body or further out front. Up to you.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Grrr. Then it's screwing in a lightbulb for you.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
The serve like all other strokes is perfectly safe and worthwhile to learn and apply for our level. What has always been more dangerous is the running with its ill effects. You can get too competitive and run too hard and destroy your knees, ankles or fall.
In general, yes. I am talking about one aspect of the serve.
Topspin Shot
Legend
No. Just no. All good servers use ISR. It's part of a throwing motion. If you throw properly, you will use ISR without realizing it. No good server uses ISR to the extreme that he has to hit a reverse slice. If you want a good serve, forget about "adding" ISR, learn to throw a ball, and you'll get ISR without any trouble. Trying to add ISR on purpose gets you Sir Shankalot's old motion (no offense). Ignore whatever articles you're reading, and if you must read them, keep them off the forum so other new players don't get misled and injure themselves trying ISR or stunting their motions by trying not to use ISR.
Everything good, don't force anything.
ISR might be just another way of saying the way the rotator cuff moves on any throwing motion.
The angle of the racket to the forearm increases or decreases the effects of ISR or pronation.
Don't force anything, allow the racket's weight to do the work for you.
ISR might be just another way of saying the way the rotator cuff moves on any throwing motion.
The angle of the racket to the forearm increases or decreases the effects of ISR or pronation.
Don't force anything, allow the racket's weight to do the work for you.
as you throw a ball, the elbow leads as it goes forward past your R ear (from right handed person's perspective), then you hand comes flying past your R ear and the palm will be slightly facing your R ear. As you continue the motion throwing the ball upward and out, the hand will catch the elbow and go in front of the elbow on the follow thru. As the hand catches the elbow, the forearm will rotate outward (pronate) and the hand will end up facing slightly away from your R ear as it continues in follow through. Hand slightly facing the R ear as it goes past ear and hand ends up facing slightly away from R ear in follow thru. This is ISR and pronation of the forearm.
To keep it simple, put your throwing arm pointing at back fence with palm slightly down and a slight bend in the elbow. Keep it as loose as a spaghetti noodle. Raise your front arm up to shoulder hi and point it forward and to side at 45 degree angle. Now rotate the shoulders quickly forward and tuck the front arm tuck close to L side. Rotating the shoulders should whip back spaghetti arm up and forward in a throwing motion. All the ISR, supination and pronation stuff should just happen automatically.
Making 10 or 12 throws with a nerf football using loose arms with shoulder rotation and whipping your spaghetti arm into the throw should teach you a lot about serving. Let the shoulders pull the loose arm through.
To keep it simple, put your throwing arm pointing at back fence with palm slightly down and a slight bend in the elbow. Keep it as loose as a spaghetti noodle. Raise your front arm up to shoulder hi and point it forward and to side at 45 degree angle. Now rotate the shoulders quickly forward and tuck the front arm tuck close to L side. Rotating the shoulders should whip back spaghetti arm up and forward in a throwing motion. All the ISR, supination and pronation stuff should just happen automatically.
Making 10 or 12 throws with a nerf football using loose arms with shoulder rotation and whipping your spaghetti arm into the throw should teach you a lot about serving. Let the shoulders pull the loose arm through.
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torpantennis
Legend
Secret of a fast(er) serve? For me it was a switch to a stronger grip, a bit towards BH grip from pure conti. Now my racquet face points to the sky before toss, similar to what Raonic does.
Tried that. The grip change gives more spin and control, but loses some speed.
torpantennis
Legend
^^With the added spin I can hit all-out, which adds to the pace (and FURTHER adds spin).
Fastest serves for most player's are hit flat.
Adding a stronger grip adds spin, allowing you to swing faster, but the ball doesn't go faster, it just has more spin, while going slower.
A flat serve swing doesn't need to be nearly as fast as an effective topspin serve swing. It needs a certain amount of accuracy in the swing, so pure top speeds swinging is usually NOT required.
On a topspin serve, you can swing faster because the margin of error is higher, and you lead with the edge of the racket up to, and past the impact zone.
Adding a stronger grip adds spin, allowing you to swing faster, but the ball doesn't go faster, it just has more spin, while going slower.
A flat serve swing doesn't need to be nearly as fast as an effective topspin serve swing. It needs a certain amount of accuracy in the swing, so pure top speeds swinging is usually NOT required.
On a topspin serve, you can swing faster because the margin of error is higher, and you lead with the edge of the racket up to, and past the impact zone.
dlam
Semi-Pro
The secret for me has been just to use my imagination and target the service line or top of the net as an place to focus where the ball travels over or lands at.
that will take care of the feel and mechanics.
Thinking about a body part during the motion is sure one for me to lose fluidity , timing and rhythm for my serve and double fault.
Once I stop bouncing the ball i stop all mechanical thoughts and get ready to serve to my target.
Its really amazing how the body response if the mind does not get over clutter with too many commands and just let it happen
i think it is insane to find a new 'secret' after ever match.
there are probably 10,000 new serving secrets and counting depending on how many ways you want to think about it.
that will take care of the feel and mechanics.
Thinking about a body part during the motion is sure one for me to lose fluidity , timing and rhythm for my serve and double fault.
Once I stop bouncing the ball i stop all mechanical thoughts and get ready to serve to my target.
Its really amazing how the body response if the mind does not get over clutter with too many commands and just let it happen
i think it is insane to find a new 'secret' after ever match.
there are probably 10,000 new serving secrets and counting depending on how many ways you want to think about it.
psv255
Professional
For me it's being relaxed above the shoulder, body loose as if drunk until close to the moment of contact - basically quick yet precise timing. add to that a good, precise ball toss and you have consistency along with a heavy serve.
In a match I slow down as much as I can - to me it feels like its slow already but my doubles partner says I'm still like Dolgo
In a match I slow down as much as I can - to me it feels like its slow already but my doubles partner says I'm still like Dolgo
I gota "secret" that we all should ignore....
Hitting serves today, ankle sore, I tried my old motion, bending over like McEnroe or Goran at prep, to hit some flat first serves.
Found quite noticeable added POP, and a clearly higher bounce, possibly because I was engaging my ab crunch core muscles at impact, forcing the shoulder's forwards.
I served this way most of last year's summer thru Nov., then adopted an upright relaxed prep position thru sheer laziness and a month off tennis.
The line at the backwall, serving into the lefty morning sun, is 42" high. Lots of serves going in or close, and bouncing almost to the line. NONE exactly as high, all lower, but some close to 10" lower.
Old, slick, painted cement courts, air temps 58, month old DunlopHDHardCourtChamp balls.
Hitting serves today, ankle sore, I tried my old motion, bending over like McEnroe or Goran at prep, to hit some flat first serves.
Found quite noticeable added POP, and a clearly higher bounce, possibly because I was engaging my ab crunch core muscles at impact, forcing the shoulder's forwards.
I served this way most of last year's summer thru Nov., then adopted an upright relaxed prep position thru sheer laziness and a month off tennis.
The line at the backwall, serving into the lefty morning sun, is 42" high. Lots of serves going in or close, and bouncing almost to the line. NONE exactly as high, all lower, but some close to 10" lower.
Old, slick, painted cement courts, air temps 58, month old DunlopHDHardCourtChamp balls.
