Self rated 3 strikes question

[dannywilliams10s]

Hey all, I can't find the answer to this question in writing so I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction...

I coach a lady who self-created at 3.0. She is playing in a 3.5 league and just got her third strike and bumped up to a 3.5S rating. Does she start over with 0 strikes at 3.5 and would again need to get 3 strikes to get bumped or is it accelerated since she has been bumped once? I hope this makes sense and thanks for any and all help!

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[kevrol]

Am guessing it depends on her dyanamic ratings for the matches she played. If they were in the 4.0 range then I'd think they would stay. If they were only in the 3.5 range then I'd guess she still has 0.

 

[NumbersGuy]

I think kevrol has it right. In theory she could have even been DQed straight to 4.0 had she beaten three high 3.5s badly. So you might want to check her scores and the TennisRecord ratings (as an approximation) of her opponents to get a feel to whether she is at risk for DQ to 4.0 anytime soon.

 

[Justagamefool]

Indeed. It is possible one or more of her 3.5 strikes are actually 4.0 strikes.
All that is certain is she will be no lower than 3.5 at year-end. She may get promoted to 4.0 at that time.
Granted if that happens, she should never have been rated 3.0.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Am guessing it depends on her dyanamic ratings for the matches she played. If they were in the 4.0 range then I'd think they would stay. If they were only in the 3.5 range then I'd guess she still has 0.

But then wouldn't she have been double-bumped?

 

[schmke]

But then wouldn't she have been double-bumped?

One or two of the 3.0 strikes could have also been 3.5 strikes and the DQ/promotion would only be to 3.5. But if two of the strikes were 3.5 strikes, she is just one more away from the next DQ/promotion to 4.0.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

One or two of the 3.0 strikes could have also been 3.5 strikes and the DQ/promotion would only be to 3.5. But if two of the strikes were 3.5 strikes, she is just one more away from the next DQ/promotion to 4.0.

Aah; I didn't know strikes were level-specific. I always thought "strike" meant only "you're too good for your current level", not how much "too good".

 

[J_R_B]

Aah; I didn't know strikes were level-specific. I always thought "strike" meant only "you're too good for your current level", not how much "too good".

Well, almost all matches have ratings, so they can tell what levels those matches are strikes at. If you're 3.0 S-rated and play a 3.5 match that generates a rating of 3.81, that is a strike at both the 3.0 and 3.5 level. If you play a matches that generates a 3.38, that is a strike at the 3.0 level but not 3.5. If you hit 3.81 three times in a row, you can be "promoted" directly from 3.0 to 4.0 (those match ratings indicate that you are playing above average 4.0 tennis already anyway).

 

[CHtennis]

I know of some cases where people have gotten bumped two levels and usually it happens in the postseason where they are dominating above level players. But how much does a 6-0, 6-0 win over someone who has a 2.6 rating push up your rating? I would not think that would get you to 4.0 rating, even someone at a 2.99 rating you would not think that would get you above a 3.5. I dont really know how it works, but there are a fair amount of 6-0, 6-0 wins within level that I would think it would be very very hard to get a match rating that high.

 

[J_R_B]

I know of some cases where people have gotten bumped two levels and usually it happens in the postseason where they are dominating above level players. But how much does a 6-0, 6-0 win over someone who has a 2.6 rating push up your rating? I would not think that would get you to 4.0 rating, even someone at a 2.99 rating you would not think that would get you above a 3.5. I dont really know how it works, but there are a fair amount of 6-0, 6-0 wins within level that I would think it would be very very hard to get a match rating that high.

I think it's impossible to get a 4.0 rating for a match with a 3.0 rated player (i.e. DNTRP < 3.00). You would have to play up in a 3.5 match (or play someone who is already rated way over level) in order to get a 4.0 rating as a 3.0. OP's question was about someone who was a 3.0S playing up in a 3.5 league. The answer is that she doesn't "reset" with zero strikes at 3.5 once she was "promoted" from 3.0 to 3.5 if some of her matches at 3.5 were actually strikes against 3.5, too.

 

[trey.luby]

When a player self-rates, that self-rating only demonstrates what their entry level into league play is....so if you self-rate as a 3.0 that shows that the minimum league level you can play is 3.0....but what is not widely understood or known is that no matter what level you self-rate, you are entering the NTRP system as a 0.0....your dynamic numbers build off of the players you play against....so even if you self-rate as a 3.0 but instead play 3.5 matches....your dynamic NTRP is going to key off that and be in the 3.5 range assuming you are even semi-competitive...if you self-rate as a 3.0 but then play against 4.0 players, your rating keys off that and generates a 4.0 dynamic range and you would likely be double-bumped. This is why it makes no sense to 'protect' your rating by trying to self-rate too low for the league you really want to play in. So it makes sense that a 3.0S playing 3.5 gets DQ'd. Typically a DQ player is denoted by a D by their rating such as 3.5D and is the equivalent to a 3.5C meaning its now a computer protected rating and you cannot be bumped up again dynamically during the year so interesting to see her rating still show an S after the DQ.

 

[schmke]

Typically a DQ player is denoted by a D by their rating such as 3.5D and is the equivalent to a 3.5C meaning its now a computer protected rating and you cannot be bumped up again dynamically during the year so interesting to see her rating still show an S after the DQ.

Not entirely true. It is true that a DQ'd player is usually shown as a 'D', but the 'D' is not the same as a 'C' as a 'D' is not protected and can still accumulate strikes against their new promoted level.

And for whatever reason, when players are only playing up and get DQ'd, I have seen them simply change it to the next level 'S' as appears was done in this case. Net effect is no different as there are no matches to reverse, the new level is what they are eligible to play at, and they are still subject to strikes against the new level.

 

[OnTheLine]

Not entirely true. It is true that a DQ'd player is usually shown as a 'D', but the 'D' is not the same as a 'C' as a 'D' is not protected and can still accumulate strikes against their new promoted level.

And for whatever reason, when players are only playing up and get DQ'd, I have seen them simply change it to the next level 'S' as appears was done in this case. Net effect is no different as there are no matches to reverse, the new level is what they are eligible to play at, and they are still subject to strikes against the new level.

Adjunct question .... as an S rating really remains an S even if it is a D ... how about an A rating ....

If a C rate appeals down and becomes an A, they are subject to strikes ... I get that
How about a C rate appeals UP (gets an A rating) are they technically subject to being dynamically DQed?

 

[trey.luby]

Not entirely true. It is true that a DQ'd player is usually shown as a 'D', but the 'D' is not the same as a 'C' as a 'D' is not protected and can still accumulate strikes against their new promoted level.

And for whatever reason, when players are only playing up and get DQ'd, I have seen them simply change it to the next level 'S' as appears was done in this case. Net effect is no different as there are no matches to reverse, the new level is what they are eligible to play at, and they are still subject to strikes against the new level.

This may be the case now but has not always been the case as Southern tells it to me. We had a case back in the last year before they instituted the 40's league where a player on an opposing team self-rated as 3.5 and then played 3.5 and got DQ'd to 4.0 and received a 4.0D rating, he was also playing 4.0 league and advanced to State.....he then played 4.0 State and when I was protesting how one of my players was DQ'd after losing to him but he was not, Southern told me that the D rating becomes a protected rating at that point.

 

[kevrol]

Adjunct question .... as an S rating really remains an S even if it is a D ... how about an A rating ....

If a C rate appeals down and becomes an A, they are subject to strikes ... I get that
How about a C rate appeals UP (gets an A rating) are they technically subject to being dynamically DQed?

Interesting question but I've yet to see the appeal up player who is anywhere close to being in danger of being DQ'd at their new level.

 

[schmke]

This may be the case now but has not always been the case as Southern tells it to me. We had a case back in the last year before they instituted the 40's league where a player on an opposing team self-rated as 3.5 and then played 3.5 and got DQ'd to 4.0 and received a 4.0D rating, he was also playing 4.0 league and advanced to State.....he then played 4.0 State and when I was protesting how one of my players was DQ'd after losing to him but he was not, Southern told me that the D rating becomes a protected rating at that point.

Interesting. Either the rule has changed or someone misunderstood it or was misapplying it. If the rule was as you state happened in this case, it is a huge loophole though. Simply self-rate too low and get the first DQ, then you are safe?

 

[badmice2]

Interesting question but I've yet to see the appeal up player who is anywhere close to being in danger of being DQ'd at their new level.

From my league experiences, any A rated player, going up or down, are subject to 3 strikes. however i believe that 3 strikes rule only affect under rated players and not over rated - another words you cannot get a DQ and be sent down because you over rated.

Also to clarify from a few different threads, dynamic DQ applies to S and A players regardless of the rating level reported. To the point on a 3.0S getting DQ and bump to 3.5, once a player gets their 3rd strike, dynamic rating takes over and any subsequent bump is base on dynamic rating. The only way to "avoid" this is to get a C rating at year end.

Also some info which may be helpful (at the very least applicable to Norcal league):

C rating is not subject to 3 strikes; grievance cannot be file against the player (unless under extreme circumstances).

S/D rating is subject to both 3 strikes AND grievance can be file at any given time without warning. To the latter point, a player does not have to have any strike to get bump if a captain files a grievance and it's upheld.

A rating is only subject to 3 strikes. Grievance cannot be file against the player.