Serve it up article - wrist snap on serve again.

GuyClinch

Legend
Okay first off I am not a great tennis player..and i am trying to improve my serve.

I read an article on TennisOne the very nice pay site and I have to know what you people think of this bit here. It's from the Heath Waters article "Serve it Up"

Now that we have the arms and legs working together properly we will move on to our final element the wrist snap.

The proper use of the wrist snap action is in my opinion the most single important element to achieving not only a more powerful serve, but a more consistent and accurate serve as well.

Whether you master the leg and arm coordination or not, despite your service technique, the one thing that can instantaneously transform your serve is the proper wrist snap.

I am always amazed at how quickly this one concept can improve and enhance any player's serve. It is not that we do not naturally use our wrist to some extent when we strike the serve, it is that we typically do not focus enough of our mental effort upon the snap and form of the snap during each and every serve that we attempt.


Observe how Roddick rolls the wrist from the c*o*c*k*e*d hammer position before contact to the pronated position you see in the finish with the racquet pointing towards the ground.

Once this is focused upon the lights will go off like fireworks. I guarantee it. For each and every serve you must make a conscious effort to snap the wrist like a whip and vigorously seek the proper form ending as we will demonstrate. So let's look at what I am talking about with Roddick's serve and then let's watch the test group do a drill that you can do yourself.

Notice Roddick's c*o*c*k*e*d wrist in the hammer position (visual on left) before contact and then the final position of the elbow up while the racquet is pointing to the ground.

Think of the St Louis ARCH as a visual. However as soon as you achieve this position let your racquet naturally follow through so as to prevent injury.

To practice the wrist snapping action stand about 10 feet from the fence, get your racquet into the “L” position then toss and let her rip.

Your focus should be on snapping your wrist through the ball to the ending finish of “elbow up and racquet head down” as you see Roddick and the test group demonstrating below. At first you may want to briefly hold this position, however, after you have mastered the basic form of “elbow up in an arched position and racquet head down” then let the racquet finish wherever it wants to without trying to stop

Alright so the deal is I SHOULD think about consciously snapping my wrist? I thought the loose arm theory ruled. Whereby you get your snap from letting your arm do whatever naturally with a loose wrist. Incidentally anyone know some stretches that can help my arm and shoulder get "looser" for more power on my serve?

Also while I get a little natural pronation on my lousy flat serve - I don't really see how you can get good pronation when you alter your swing some to hit topsin and slice serves. Though I suppose likely I am hitting these a bit wrong..

Anway this wrist snap thing ticks me off. I have TWO coaches tell me to snap the wrist. And I SWEAR one day with one coach it really seemed to work.

What do you big servers or teaching pros think about this. I am a big guy I should have a HUGE serve and I don't. So I really have to know.

Pete
 

BSousa

Rookie
Im not a teaching pro, but in my club, in the <5 years playing tennis group, I probably have the fatest serve, shame my accuracy with it sucks. I have around 60-65% 1st serve percentage.

Here is one tidbit of information I got over these last few months. Don't consciously snap your wrist. You may help it a bit, but thats just it. Don't force the snap. IT will damage your arm when you do it.

I used to do it and I must say, it does improve the speed of your serve, even consciously. Unfortunally, if this doesn't come without much effort, it will damage your arm (trust me on this one :))

My serve is a lot like Roddicks. I like his serve, and step by step I've been trying to adapt it to myself. I must say that at the beginning the wrist snap didn't come naturally, but as my arm movement improved, the wrist snap started to appear. I think in any serve motion, as soon as you reach a level where you keep your wrist loose and achieve moderate speed on the swing, the snap will just pop.

Another thing that seems to help me, but this was by trial and error and many folks I know don't do it so it may be just a personal thing is to hold the racquet just at the end, with the pinky finger (the smaller one,think this is the right name, just over the buttcap, even slightly off the racquet. This makes me hold the racquet in a more relaxed way with only the four fingers, improving the wrist snap. I don't know if this is textbook or not, it just works for me.

Good luck

Hope it helps
Bruno
 
Lets start a movement to abolish the word combination...

"WRIST SNAP"

I don't think it's worth teaching with.

So what do you say instead?

The more correct you get, the more people need to pull out an anatomy book...

Passive Ulnar flexion from hyperextension to a non hypeflexed hand position while pronating?

I think the answer for most people is less talk and more demonstration. Pictures are another way to go. German Tennis Federation "Tennis course I" has a nice chapter on wrist action.

How intense the contraction should be is debateable, I tend to side with the argument that it should be done as a reaction only to the stretch that is put on it during loading and that it is no where near being a maximal contraction.

Instructors should discourage hand flexion past neutral (where the angle of the metacarpals goes further into flexion than being in line with the ulna) sorry about the jargon.

a bent wrist on follow through is a sign that the ball is being slapped with the hand and that internal arm rotation is being compromised.
 

vin

Professional
Eric Matuszewski said:
So what do you say instead?

My opinion is that the 'wrist snap' is the result of an action rather than an action itself. Allowing the wrist to stay loose during the upward swing allows the racquet head to eventually accelarate to a higher velocity than that of the hand. This means that the position of the racquet is going to catch up to the hand at contact, and pull ahead of the hand after contact, and begin to continue it's rounded path down towards the ground while the hand is still up high. Then the forearm follows, then the elbow, etc. I think a tight wrist would resist the racquet head acceleration that causes this. I think trying to force the 'wrist snap' would succeed in causing the wrist to break after contact but would undermine the acceleration resulting from the racquet being pulled up towards the ball. So then you'd have a wrist snap, but it probably wouldn't be as effective.

So ... maybe the alternate saying should be 'loose wrist'? Or maybe the 'wrist snap' should be ignored all together, or be viewed as simply a position that verifies that other mechanics of the serve were executed correctly.

Just a thought from a non expert. :)
 

Hit 'em clean

Semi-Pro
The pronation of the forearm is important, but naturally occurs if you have good form/technique. You can accentuate the pronation with different grips, etc. Sometimes the simple thing is to concentrate not on the pronation, but rather positions you want to achieve throughout the service motion that will naturally produce the desired effect. Telling someone to simply pronate... do it faster or to a greater degree often leave people focused on one apsect and they lose sight of the whole.

The article does discuss achieving a position in the follow through with the elbow high and pointed to the sky and the thumb and hand down. Using that as a reference point will help you achieve your own personal and natural pronation.

You can help things to a degree, but best results are usually had by letting it happen naturally. Hitting a ball into the fence or bouncing a ball down into the ground while feeling and concentrating on pronation are great muscle memory tools. But when you go to hit a serve, don't lose sight of the goal which is a relaxed, fluid service motion. Ideally the best servers know how to hit their best serves with a minimal amount of effort. Bad servers usually put extra effort in to every serve and get minimal results.
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
Well folks I have had time to digest the article and had time to cool off, trying to not get my emotions involved in this thread. This is the type of stuff that can really irritate me, especially when it comes from "authorities" in tennis. However, film doesn't lie and I hope that the following information can allow us to put this to bed - for good.

So let me start saying that Eric couldnt be more correct if you paid him. Both Eric and I are teaching professionals (with Eric being in an active status). So for now, two teaching pros have learned that the "wrist snap" teaching and emphasis is a myth more than it is reality. I am sure Mahboob isn't far behind to post his comments supporting this as well.

There are also many other professionals "in the know", people who have studied pro film, not just looked at them, but studied them and have also determined that the wrist snap is a myth. Trying to do something that isn't there can be harmful to your health. The human eye can not pick up the subtle movements of the body during a fast motion and is only capable of picking up where something started and how it finished. From there it sort of fills in the blanks and that is were things can be misinterpreted.

It is no secret that a loose arm, shoulder region, and wrist (which means a loose grip) is essential in transferring energy to the ball. There is no if's, and's, or but's to this, it is pure fact.

So lets review what is it that generates the racquet head speed necessary to hit a hard fast serve and the role of the wrist. We are going to isloate the arm and the shoulder region and pretend that the lower body and the torso was initiated properly to help transfer the kenetic energy.

HOW DO WAVES BREAK ON THE SHORE?

roddick.gif


Your probably wondering "what in the world does this have to do with the role of the wrist in a serve"? Well it has a lot to do with it so please bear with me.

Waves are generated by winds the whirl around the surface of the water. The stronger the wind the bigger the waves. Most of the waves we see that break on a beach are generated miles away from the shore. When a wave is generated and travels through deep water (keeping things simple) a swell will move towards land. A swell in the ocean is a wave but hasn't broken yet.

As the wave or swell travels closer and closer to shore, friction from the ocean's bottom causes the bottom half of the wave to slow down while the upper half without the same friction continues at the same speed. By the time it reaches shallow water, the difference in speed of the top half of the wave is so much greater than the bottom half that it "breaks" or folds over itself.

In California, the continental shelf (the bottom surface of the ocean) gets shallower slowly so that the bottom half of the wave slows down gradually. When it reaches a point where the bottom half cant keep up (shallow water), the wave breaks. But the wave breaks much slower than compared to a wave that breaks in Hawaii's North Shore. Plus, the winds that generated the wave in California's shore tend to be less severe as compared to the winds that generate waves on the North Shore of Hawaii.

On the North Shore of Hawaii, the waves do not slow down gradually as they do in California. There is no continental shelf to gradually slow down the bottom half of the wave. In Hawaii, the winds that generate the waves you see usually originate from Alaska which are very powerful winds. They also generate these waves in very deep water (some that are moving so deep you cant even see the swell on the surface) that travel 30 mph and sometimes faster.

When the wave reaches the North Shore, very little friction has been applied to these waves. On top of this, Hawaii's North Shore's shelf "suddenly" gets shallow and is not gradual like it is in California. The pressure slowing down the bottom half of the wave is tremendous. In other words, the wave or swell comes from deep water to shallow water very quickly.

Since the shelf in Hawaii acts like a sudden "braking" mechanism, the top of the wave is suddenly thrusted forward and upward which produces the very powerful waves you see on TV and what Hawaii's waves are famous for.

If you have read this, you will be able to pick up where I am going with this. You would see that the swell moving through the water resembles the coiling and the torso/lower body movement that will eventually transfer the energy to the shoulders, arm, and wrist. the braking mechanisms are a lot like what happens as one body element transfers the momentum to the other body element. The water represents the looseness of the body and the arm during the serving motion as it moves to meet the ball.

The bottom-lne to all of this is the sudden slowing down of one part while another continues is the "braking" and accelerating that needs to happen in the serve. Flexibility and looseness is what is important to transfer this moving energy, not a purposely done wrist snap as the force that initiated the motion has been completed (the legs, hips, and shoulders).

THE SERVE

roddick.gif


When the shoulders slow down by using the non-dominant arm to "brake" or decelerate them, the arm continues to sling forward. Look at Roddick's serve closely. Notice the looseness in his shoulders and the extention he gets at his elbow. Notice the shoulders stop rotating once they are square and it flings the extending arm into the ball. Also, notice the wrist did not "snap".

As the arm slows down, the wrist is slung forward, when the wrist slows down (usually right at impact, the sudden force against the ball causes the wrist to slow down), the weight of the racquet is then forced downward (or breaks) as it has no other place to go - much like a breaking wave. When a wave is breaking the force is dissappating. The same with the serve. You want to make contact when the elbow has fully extended, this is when you are applying the maximum force generated by the legs, hips, and shoulders. The forward and upward energy at this point produces the "bang" you want in the serve then the wrist bends down from the transfer of force to the racquet.

So lets look at why the wrist needs to be loose and when it actually performs its role in the serve.

If you study professional serves you will realize the wrist is most involved when the arm stops or brakes as it reaches full extention. Look at the images for proof. When the upward swing starts in the serve motion, the wrist is thrusted back (lays back) and as the shoulders brakes, the arm begins to transfer the speed to the ball, the wrist isnt in a position yet to break (or catchup) yet and since it started out in a stopped position at the begining of the up swing, it is forced backwards or is laid back as it travels up with the arm. When the arm reached full extension, this "braking" cause the wrist to sling forward and the racquet hits the ball as illustrated below:

back.gif


The non-dominant arm can be looked at as that shelf in Hawaii's waters. The arm/shoulder/hand is the water - fluidness. The top of the wave at its maximum peak is the the wrist. Look again:

bbb.gif


If you learn nothing from my words above, learn this. It is the elbow extending that provides the "brakes" at full extension that allows the wrist and forearm to catchup and transfer the built up speed into the ball. Not purposely snapping the wrist! So, keep a loose arm AT THE ELBOW and extend making contact at full extension, the rest will take care of itself.

Take a closer look at other pictures for more insight:

roddick.gif


racquetfig1.jpg


racquetfig2.jpg


racquetfig3.jpg
 

wpeng4

New User
That's fantastic analysis, BB. Thanks a lot! I've tried to add the pronation to my serve without success. Some time, I can get a little extra pop off the serve, but most of time I would start pronating too early. The result is a mis-hit. The serve motion is so fast that I feel it is nearly impossible to consciously add pronation to one's serve with consistency, because of the capability of human timing. Just my 2 cents.
 

Ryoma

Rookie
I just talked to a guy in the tennis gathering last night. He told me to hold the racket with an eastern backhand grip and give it a firm grip on the V (which is on the left slant for me) and the serve will be more consistent. Mentally, I think of swinging the racket head out at the ball. Before this, I have to consciously pronate my forearm. But now, as BB said, the racket has nowhere to go and the arm pronate naturally. Hope this help. :idea:
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
Ryoma said:
I just talked to a guy in the tennis gathering last night. He told me to hold the racket with an eastern backhand grip and give it a firm grip on the V (which is on the left slant for me) and the serve will be more consistent. Mentally, I think of swinging the racket head out at the ball. Before this, I have to consciously pronate my forearm. But now, as BB said, the racket has nowhere to go and the arm pronate naturally. Hope this help. :idea:

Good. I am sure you know now that the "guy" that said the V is the secret is giving another "hogwash" tip for all! A consistant serve is not a result of holding the racquet better in the V of your hand. If it was that easy we would all be there.

A consistant serve starts with the toss. Other things like the head staying up and allowing your wrist to catchup from the arm fully extending are more important aspects for a consistant serve then holding your racquet tighter in the V!

Extention of the arm is the secret to transferred power. There are two major braking mechnisms in the serve in the upper body:

1. The shoulders stopping when the non-dominant arm folds in.

2. The extended arm at the elbow

The body and the coiling of the shoulders stores the energy to be released. The uncoiling and looseness of the body, shoulders, and arms releases the energy. The braking actions allow the transfer of energy to happen to different parts of the body into the ball.
 

AngeloDS

Hall of Fame
Could you please upload the images again? I'm completely clueness on increasing my racquet head speed. I use too much arm, and not enough "body." I don't understand how your body is suppose to work in the serve. Like how the hips, legs, body etc. work in the serve.
 

kevhen

Hall of Fame
I serve more consistently and with more pace when I consciously think about snapping my wrist down on my hard flat serves. The only other thing that helps pace is for me to remember to take my racquet back as far as comfortable so I have more time to accelerate it. You can also add weight to your racquet head for more power but don't add too much. Otherwise ball toss consistency and lots of practice with smooth technique are the keys.
 
S

SageOfDeath

Guest
If you are hitting up well your wrist will snap on its own. Its not something to do conciously. Also you need to use the right grip.
 

Puma

Rookie
I would like to compliment BB for an excellent post. I would like to add that for those who are just learning the serve, (me too, I am still in the learning phase) please heed the advice to not try to apply the "Snap". I myself hurt my arm/shoulder doing this very same thing. Lucky for me I didn't damage the rotator.

The breakover of the wrist at full extension is where it is. If you don't extend, you will not have the correct results. This is why so often we hear to toss it higher so we can extend. No extension no "breakover" or "release" or for a lesser term "snap". This is not to say you cannot hit a serve or for that matter hit it well without full extension.

I have tried to pronate. I have practiced it. I can hit flat serves this way as well as a topspin serve as well. This is done by taking the racket back and leading with the elbow. It works and it can hurt your arm/shoulder....

Swinging up to full extension is how the greatest amount of power with the least amount of effort is accomplished. The breakover or "snap" is a result of that motion......
 
Great posts, BB. I remember the "waves breaking on the shore" from a post you made a long time ago, it still completely applies. If the people here would just search through your posts, they'd find all their questions answered. ;)

"Wrist snap" should not be done consciously and is detrimental to your game. Pronation should still not be done consciously.

The wrist is a result of a large kinetic chain, beginning with the torso and shoulders. As they turn and lead into the ball, the elbow comes naturally slinging over. The elbow in turn starts the wrist, which pronates through with your forearm.

If you're going to think consciously about anything, just think about starting to rotate with the shoulders. And when you get used to doing that, you'll get even better as you stop thinking about it. And with this, you'll find yourself suddenly blasting bombs, and completely relaxed.

Personally, I've looked at some of Heath Waters' stuff and disagree entirely. He has a site called Virtual Tennis Academy, but I just found it to be average and sometimes wrong. Expensive as well.


To BSousa- You know, a 60-65% first serve percentage is actually extremely good.
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
I have to say that when I saw the topic I thought I'd make another post, but after reading most of what's here, why? Bungalo really said it all, as did the last post by Phil D. I don't agree with some or even a lot of the stuff that's posted here, but it's too bad that the vast majority of players and even coaches with strong views on these controversial technical issues aren't discussing them at the level on this board. Still it's reason for hope.

Everyone loves to talk about how to grow the game, get more players etc. My own take on that is one of the major stumbling blocks is the way the game is taught. Not that virtually all coaches aren't trying to do their absolute best. It's very hard work and not a lot of income either. It's just that our level of understanding has been at a low level for a long time, and now that does appear to be gradually improving.
 
John,

Thanks for the post. I myself began as a classical player, and still am in a number of ways. I quit tennis for a bit, and came back four years ago. I made a huge effort to change my game to keep up with the updates and become "modern".

But the amount of resources were hard, as you've said. Most coaches repeat what they were taught and believe worked, and either don't have confidence in teaching what they haven't learned well in the modern game, don't know much about the changes, or simply are confused by the information out there. I certainly was.

At first, I found many believing the only difference in the modern game was the open stance and the extreme grips. While these are major, it's obviously not true.

Moderntennis.com was a great site, but is still under construction. And for the most part, in learning the modern game I had to give up and just adapt on my own. It's a severe block for anyone trying to teach the game. I'm especially interested to learn more on it, as I plan to play for a long while, and I've got twins learning the game now.

This board is certainly great, with the most passionate arguments I've ever seen. SOMETIMES enlightening. I've...argued myself, LOL.
 

ubel

Professional
I wanted to bring this up again because I was wondering about my serve: the wrist snap (forced or natural) is supposed to counter-act the tweaking affect of the ball contacting the racquet, correct? Therefore you only want enough wrist-snap or a firm enough wrist + grip so that the racquet doesn't slide/contort in your hand and is firm enough so that racquet can add the maximum amount of spin or power to your serve.

Oversnapping will, of course, add power, but at the expense of damage to the wrist (see Safin vs Federer 05 Aussie Open), while a firm enough wrist and snap will allow you to create the maximum amount of power generated from shoulder rotation and your legs driving your body up into the ball? Does that sound right?

This all came up because of earlier today when I was practicing my serve..
I hadn't serve practiced in a week or so, and when I went out there I was plum-stuck as to why I wasn't getting nearly as much kick as usual. My grip was also getting rather matted down with sweat and I was afraid the racquet would slip out of my hand so I super-tightened my grip on my serve..

Voila, my topspin serves start to kick and have a lot more arc, though it was noticeably less than I know was possible with my motion. I messed around a bit with snapping my wrist while doing this and I did get more power but my trajectory was wayyy off (straight down into the bottom of the net sometimes) since I didn't know how to control the snap enough.

I didn't think about it enough until now, but what was actually happening was the racquet was tweaking and being pushed back by the ball on contact due to a weak foundation at my wrist + hand grip. This was dampening the effect of my serve's swing path. I was overcoming this, however, with a tighter wrist (firm foundation), then with testing wrist snaps (firmer foundation + added power) but I didn't add two and two together until now.

Just as a wrap-up:
good toss + eyes on the ball + leg drive + shoulder rotation + loose arm + correct swing path
+ firm wrist/slight wrist snap to counter-act the racquet tweak at contact
= excellent serve?

Or not at all.. all the posts here say the fluid motion of your body should force the natural wrist snapping motion necessary to create power. My mechanics must really freaking suck cause I just can't get the wrist snap necessary to get that power on my serve. I'll try to loosen my arm a bit more tomorrow, it may be due to tightening up to try and force the motion.
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Excellent service motion discussion, and certainly another classic post by BB.
Thanks!

One thing I thought I'd mention is with regards to "fluid motion" of the body. For me, I serve best when my serve is very rhythmical. I played the cello a bit and the trombone before that and sang for years, so music has been and still is an integral part of my life. I see the serve as a symphony with 10 movements: stance, toss/going back, going forward, hip stretch, reach, rotation back, rotation forward and up, arm uncoils, the hit, and recovery. Or something similar. But you get the idea. For me, it is DANCE and music....

-Robert
 

Trinity TC

Semi-Pro
JohnYandell said:
...My own take on that is one of the major stumbling blocks is the way the game is taught. Not that virtually all coaches aren't trying to do their absolute best. It's very hard work and not a lot of income either. It's just that our level of understanding has been at a low level for a long time, and now that does appear to be gradually improving.
Hi John,

I agree wholeheartedly. I can only speak of Canada but even at the elite level, most teaching pros seem to be doing it by rote.
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
Phil Daddario said:
Great posts, BB. I remember the "waves breaking on the shore" from a post you made a long time ago, it still completely applies. If the people here would just search through your posts, they'd find all their questions answered. ;)

Thanks Phil.
 

treo

Semi-Pro
A problem when coaches say "snap your wrist" is that most people visualize a movement similar to someone playing the bongos.
 

Swissv2

Hall of Fame
Bill, your pictures don't work anymore...would it be possible to post them again? thanks much.
 

Kevo

Legend
Bill's pictures are linked to a pay site. They will only work for people with access to that site.

As for wrist snapping, go play some catch with a baseball. Have you ever heard anyone tell a kid to snap their wrist? I haven't. I played for about 6 years as a kid, and I never heard that advice. I did hear advice about how to take the ball back, where to put my feet, and other things leading up to the throw, but never snap the wrist. The reason is that it happens by itself. I like to think of a serve as throwing the racquet face at the ball. The spin and pace come from the angle I throw the racquet face at. The wrist snap happens by itself. Also, with many things in life it works better most of the time if you start slowly and build up speed. Going to fast all at once can lead to a crash.
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
Swissv2 said:
Bill, your pictures don't work anymore...would it be possible to post them again? thanks much.

That article was written many months ago. At the time I jumped the gun and posted the article without copyright permission. The only way we can get the pictures and animations to show again is if we asked John - he is the only one that can decided.

However, we did take the same article and placed very good film around it to illustrate the comparison between a breaking wave and the arm motion in a serve. I for the most part think the current article with its new visuals is better. You have to be a subscriber on John's site to see the article and clips. :)
 

Ano

Hall of Fame
JohnYandell said:
I have to say that when I saw the topic I thought I'd make another post, but after reading most of what's here, why? Bungalo really said it all, as did the last post by Phil D. I don't agree with some or even a lot of the stuff that's posted here, but it's too bad that the vast majority of players and even coaches with strong views on these controversial technical issues aren't discussing them at the level on this board. Still it's reason for hope.

Everyone loves to talk about how to grow the game, get more players etc. My own take on that is one of the major stumbling blocks is the way the game is taught. Not that virtually all coaches aren't trying to do their absolute best. It's very hard work and not a lot of income either. It's just that our level of understanding has been at a low level for a long time, and now that does appear to be gradually improving.

Hi John, Rick Macci (a contributor to your website www.tennisplayer.net) wrote an article in Tennis Magazine last year (with Andi Roddick on the cover). In that article he recommended people to do " a wrister" (hit a tennis ball to the ground with only a wrist snap, and try to make the loudest sound and highest bounce) to practice a wrist snap.

So I guess you have a disagreement with him on this topic??
 

Kevo

Legend
Ano said:
Hi John, Rick Macci (a contributor to your website www.tennisplayer.net) wrote an article in Tennis Magazine last year (with Andi Roddick on the cover). In that article he recommended people to do " a wrister" (hit a tennis ball to the ground with only a wrist snap, and try to make the loudest sound and highest bounce) to practice a wrist snap.

So I guess you have a disagreement with him on this topic??

I'm not sure I've seen that particular article, but I do remember a similar recommendation about hitting a ball into the ground many years ago in a Tennis Magazine article. That article was all about pronation though. The ide was actually to rotate your arm with it fully extended. I found it quite helpful at the time. I can't even imagine at the moment what snapping my wrist to hit a ball into the ground would look like. It seems awkward.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Ano said:
Hi John, Rick Macci (a contributor to your website www.tennisplayer.net) wrote an article in Tennis Magazine last year (with Andi Roddick on the cover). In that article he recommended people to do " a wrister" (hit a tennis ball to the ground with only a wrist snap, and try to make the loudest sound and highest bounce) to practice a wrist snap.
So I guess you have a disagreement with him on this topic??

I remember this article. They gave tips on the kick serve, and he also gave tips on how to use a towel to develop a more fluid motion. In the article he emphasized a drill where one does not use their arm, legs or body, rather only uses the wrist to hit the ball straight down into the ground in front of them. This drill he said assists in developing your wrist in becoming stronger and more fluid. He then instructs the student to incoorporate this "snap" into the serve.

Fairly good edition of Tennis Magazine on different tips for the serve.
 
Ok, after many years of serving, i have realized that making power is all about the last 10 to 15 degrees of shoulder rotation, on all strokes. So, i never think about my wrist, but how powerfull i can lunge my legs and twist my torso for that last 10 degrees. If you are "big", but can't make much power, u simply have to work on your core muscles, the muscles of all sports, the upper legs, hips, and stomach, and train yourself to "snap" them all in concert for that last 10 degrees before contact. Toss the ball in front and LEAN your body weight as U do this. Now you can hopefully see how trivial the "wrist snap" is. I never think of it, minus making sure my arm is totally loose as my shoulder, and use my explosiveness to power the ball. The arm is only like a whip, to transfer the power that can only come from core muscles. And, if U don't believe me, stand, toss the ball, and just "wrist snap" till U are blue in the face, the ball might go over the net 10 mph. Not to bunk how everyone else uses art to articulate this, but you have to understand the explosive leverage and where it comes from. Hope this helps.
 

JCo872

Professional
Check this clip out guys:
http://www.hitechtennis.com/serve/flash/roger_pronating.swf

What I see is wrist and forearm together as a unit. The pronation is the hand and forearm turning together in perfect synch. Therefore, no wrist "snap" at all.

Notice as well how at the end of the clip, you can almost draw a straight line from Federer's shoulder to the tip of his racket. There is a lot of extension here. If you snap your wrist you completely destroy this extension. Most people try to snap their wrists, which disconnects the long lever you see at the end of the shot.

What do you all see in this clip?

Also, drakulie makes a great point. The same phenomenon occurs in throwing a ball. Check out these professional pitchers release. The wrist is completely in line with their forearms:
http://www.wral.com/2006/0722/9559480.jpg
http://www.astroasylum.com/files/images/backe ST2_0

Jeff
 

Ano

Hall of Fame
Kevo said:
I'm not sure I've seen that particular article, but I do remember a similar recommendation about hitting a ball into the ground many years ago in a Tennis Magazine article. That article was all about pronation though. The ide was actually to rotate your arm with it fully extended. I found it quite helpful at the time. I can't even imagine at the moment what snapping my wrist to hit a ball into the ground would look like. It seems awkward.

Hi Kevo, I still have that magazine in my home. I will take the photo of that article and send the photo to you via email on next monday.

Please give me your emaill address.

And to JCo872, thanks for the link!!
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Notice as well how at the end of the clip, you can almost draw a straight line from Federer's shoulder to the tip of his racket. There is a lot of extension here. If you snap your wrist you completely destroy this extension. Most people try to snap their wrists, which disconnects the long lever you see at the end of the shot.

This is becoming a semantic argument. As the thread starter here - I will point out that Tennis one isn't referring to using your wrist muscles to snap but the snap that you get by pronating your arm with a loose wrist.

The argument here is that it's "natural" but I can tell you I play with plenty of not so great players and plenty of them don't do this pronation thing naturally.

I like the analogies of throwing the dart at the ceiling and unscrewing a lightbulb to get it. Also Nick Bolleteri's sonic serve is very good IMHO. He compares it to an upward throw and makes a very good case that's exactly what a good serve is. Unfortunately even alot of guys don't have great pitching mechanics so the transition isn't so easy for us..

Pete
 

Ano

Hall of Fame
drakulie said:
I remember this article. They gave tips on the kick serve, and he also gave tips on how to use a towel to develop a more fluid motion. In the article he emphasized a drill where one does not use their arm, legs or body, rather only uses the wrist to hit the ball straight down into the ground in front of them. This drill he said assists in developing your wrist in becoming stronger and more fluid. He then instructs the student to incoorporate this "snap" into the serve.

Fairly good edition of Tennis Magazine on different tips for the serve.

The title of that article is : "The Serve : how to rip it, place it and kick it".

It has 3 separate articles. Rick Macci recommendation about "a wrister" is in the "how to rip a serve" article.
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
You know I never saw that article so I can't say--I don't read Tennis much because...well nevermind.

This is the way Rick describes Andy Roddick's motion in his serving article on our site--and there is no mention of "wrist snap":

"Andy has a very flexible shoulder. He has fast hands. They work together to create a whipping effect. There's just a lot of whip in his arm, similar to his forehand. The end result is this tremendous racket head speed. He has a fairly low toss, and the whole thing happened so fast, it just gets on top of you."

Don't get me wrong, your wrist moves, it needs to be loose. It doesn't snap forward at contact, though, and it's not a good idea in my opinion to try to make that happen.

You could do a lot of exercises that might strengthen your wrist, make it flexible, etc and they would probably all help.
 

Ano

Hall of Fame
JohnYandell said:
You know I never saw that article so I can't say--I don't read Tennis much because...well nevermind.

This is the way Rick describes Andy Roddick's motion in his serving article on our site--and there is no mention of "wrist snap":

"Andy has a very flexible shoulder. He has fast hands. They work together to create a whipping effect. There's just a lot of whip in his arm, similar to his forehand. The end result is this tremendous racket head speed. He has a fairly low toss, and the whole thing happened so fast, it just gets on top of you."

Don't get me wrong, your wrist moves, it needs to be loose. It doesn't snap forward at contact, though, and it's not a good idea in my opinion to try to make that happen.

You could do a lot of exercises that might strengthen your wrist, make it flexible, etc and they would probably all help.

Thanks for your reply, John.

Oh, by the way, I have read Rick's Article on your site. I've also read your articles, including the one that titled "the myth : the wrist". ( I'm a subscriber to your site and I think it's a great site. I recommend it to all of my tennis friends).

That's why I asked you if you have a disagreement about Rick's article in Tennis magazine, because in that article Rick specifically said about wrist snap to add power to your serve.
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Well, next time I see Rick maybe we'll chat about just what he means by "snap..."

It's more than possible that of all the great people writing for us, some of them are going to disagree about some to many things.
 

Ano

Hall of Fame
JohnYandell said:
Well, next time I see Rick maybe we'll chat about just what he means by "snap..."

It's more than possible that of all the great people writing for us, some of them are going to disagree about some to many things.

Thanks again for your reply.

Btw, Rick's article is in Tennis Magazine, March, 2005, and he said :

" Snap balls into the courts using only your wrist. Most players don't do exercises or drills that enhance the fluidity of the wrist. There's one that I call "wristers" that's helpful in developing a good snapping action.

Hold your racquet with a continental grip and bend your wrist forward so that it's bowed.

Lean forward slightly at the waist, toss a ball around waist level in front of you and snap it down into the court using only your wrist.

There are 2 things your're looking for here : (1) the sound that the ball makes when it hits the court, and (2) the height that it gets.

Obviously, playing on a hard surface will help, but your're trying to get an explosive sound and the ball 20 to 30 feet in the air. If you use a lot of arm or shoulder rotation, you'll have trouble generating much pop and you may fall over or hit yourself on the follow-through.

Using the wrist is the best way to achieve these two goals, and it will carry over into helping you get a good snap on your serves and overheads."
 
Top