Sevastova good style for rec male players

[ByeByePoly]

Most rec male players will never have more than average pace. Some will have a good enough flat serve with enough pace for aces/winners ... but a large percentage of them would win more by just getting more first serves in.

We don't want to admit that, but it's true for most of us.

In that context, I really think WTA play is more relevant to rec male players looking for playing style as a guide for our games. We aren't going to hit serves like Isner (or Serena for that matter), FHs like Nadal and Del Potro. I've started watching the ATP players with less power like Goffin as more useful than all those Fed videos.

I was watching the US Open, and watched a couple of Sevastova matches and was blown away from offense that came from variety and precision. She hit her serve anywhere she wanted, and it had just enough "work" on them to be effective, even at the pro level. She worked points from the first hit ... the opposite of the robotic loopers. Top, flat, touch, slice, any target, dropshot. In the middle of one her matches I had the thought "wow ... I wish my skills were that good and varied, and hit most of my shots with offensive purpose like she does".

So I said it ... and admit it. If you don't have power (and you know I'm talking to YOU ) ... play like a girl ... play like Sevastova.

 

[zalive]

Good God @ByeByePoly ... Sevastova averaged FH stroke at 74.5 MpH and BH stroke at 69 MpH at 2016...
Can you play like this girl?

 

[ChaelAZ]

I agree. I wanna hit forehands like Maddie, have a serve like Serena, have the energy and drive of Cibulkova, the finesse and feel of Radwanska, and look hot like Genie doing it all.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Good God @ByeByePoly ... Sevastova averaged FH stroke at 74.5 MpH and BH stroke at 69 MpH at 2016...
Can you play like this girl?

No ... it was aspirational

 

[GuyClinch]

Meh. I think most guys are missing out if they just second serve the first serve in. Most guys can have a 'weapon' first serve that's effective at their level thats hit at 50% plus. The beauty of a flat first serve is guys have some 'imaginary' victories against it. I see guys serve flat - and they get hot - they hit like four in a row in. A player returns just ONE and they congratulate themselves for getting it back - but they lost the three other points.

I kinda get it. Feels good to redirect pace but your opponent just won 3/4 points.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Meh. I think most guys are missing out if they just second serve the first serve in. Most guys can have a 'weapon' first serve that's effective at their level thats hit at 50% plus. The beauty of a flat first serve is guys have some 'imaginary' victories against it. I see guys serve flat - and they get hot - they hit like four in a row in. A player returns just ONE and they congratulate themselves for getting it back - but they lost the three other points.

I kinda get it. Feels good to redirect pace but your opponent just won 3/4 points.

This wasn't a tip on hitting your second serve as your first serve. That's not what Sevastova is doing.

It also wasn't a tip for someone that is banging their flat first serve in at 50%. They aren't the 90+% I am talking to.

This was a tip for those banging their first in at 10%.

That 10% banger is banging for ego and nobody on the USTA team wants to be his doubles partner.

I have a decent flat serve to T on deuce court. I hardly ever use it ... I don't hit it at a high enough percent. I think I have heard NYTA say the same thing.

This was suppose to be a tip about offense for those pace-challenged.

 

[Traffic]

I was watching a JR USTA INTERMEDIATE tournament girls 14U draw. They were hitting harder than me...

 

[ByeByePoly]

I was watching a JR USTA INTERMEDIATE tournament girls 14U draw. They were hitting harder than me...

Yeah ... you don't want to watch that. I have a friend that finished in the state #1 at 45s. He soon went on vacation and someone hooked him up with a jr girl to hit with. She destroyed him. His exact words were ... "in tennis, there is always someone that will knock your d!ck in the dirt". Not the words I would have used, but I think we all get the sentiment.

 

[TennisCJC]

Good God @ByeByePoly ... Sevastova averaged FH stroke at 74.5 MpH and BH stroke at 69 MpH at 2016...
Can you play like this girl?

Yea, avg 74.5 and 69 mph is big power. I read once that avg college player is around 65 mph. I don't know avg 4.0 to 4.5 rec player but I would guess it is around 50 mph.

But, I think 3.5 through 5.0 should work on high percentage tennis and to me this means:

1. Spin the 1st serve and try to get over 60% in
2. Develop top/slice or kick 2nd serve that you can get in and hit with full RHS by using more spin. Strive to only hit 3 or less DFs in single per set and only 1 or 2 DFs in doubles.
3. Hit moderate topspin off both sides, work the ball CC until you get a short ball.
4. Learn to play the net so you can move in an attack on short balls. Practice overheads and volleys.
5. Learn a BH slice, it is valuable as a block return of serve against big pace or big kick, as a defensive baseline stroke and as an approach shot. Also good as a change of pace.
6. Learn a FH slice, block ROS, approach on low balls you have to dig up and a defensive squash shot.
7. I am not a fan of drop shots but I do like to hit low and short BH slices

I think playing percentage tennis is much smarter than trying to blast. But, I like to blast every now and then.

1. If you are up 2 or more points and serving, take a little spin off and go for a flatter bomb down the middle.
2. If you have a sitter and are up in the game, move in and give it ride. I still use topspin on this one but I like to inject pace and prefer to hit inside out FH or DTL FH.

 

[Dragy]

Sevastova is great. Seems not that physically gifted as number of other ladies on tour, but incredibly all-round, technically modern, and tactically very solid - utilizing powerful, yet consiten, high-margin shots in constructing points. Problems she faced on US Open, ones she knows and commented herself, were getting tight at the tough closure of match: it was so in a match with Sharapova, and it didn't allow her beat Sloane - she just stopped going for her shots, patterns and point construction in the end of 3rd set and the tiebreaker. Hope she grows up a bit mentally and keeps injury-free to peak at her career in the next years.

 

[heninfan99]

no, they/we will keep trying to play like Giorgi

 

[Boogslice]

ATP players with less power like Goffin as more useful than all those Fed videos

Goffin is my go-to model for how I might try to build my game. He can't overpower anyone but plays with tremendous court sense, quickness, consistency, precision, and fluid, efficient strokes. Love that guy.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Goffin is my go-to model for how I might try to build my game. He can't overpower anyone but plays with tremendous court sense, quickness, consistency, precision, and fluid, efficient strokes. Love that guy.

Yep ... agree with all of that. I particularly think his FH prep with racquet held high early is a good choice for the rec player.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Yea, avg 74.5 and 69 mph is big power. I read once that avg college player is around 65 mph. I don't know avg 4.0 to 4.5 rec player but I would guess it is around 50 mph.

But, I think 3.5 through 5.0 should work on high percentage tennis and to me this means:

1. Spin the 1st serve and try to get over 60% in
2. Develop top/slice or kick 2nd serve that you can get in and hit with full RHS by using more spin. Strive to only hit 3 or less DFs in single per set and only 1 or 2 DFs in doubles.
3. Hit moderate topspin off both sides, work the ball CC until you get a short ball.
4. Learn to play the net so you can move in an attack on short balls. Practice overheads and volleys.
5. Learn a BH slice, it is valuable as a block return of serve against big pace or big kick, as a defensive baseline stroke and as an approach shot. Also good as a change of pace.
6. Learn a FH slice, block ROS, approach on low balls you have to dig up and a defensive squash shot.
7. I am not a fan of drop shots but I do like to hit low and short BH slices

I think playing percentage tennis is much smarter than trying to blast. But, I like to blast every now and then.

1. If you are up 2 or more points and serving, take a little spin off and go for a flatter bomb down the middle.
2. If you have a sitter and are up in the game, move in and give it ride. I still use topspin on this one but I like to inject pace and prefer to hit inside out FH or DTL FH.

Good list.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Sevastova is great. Seems not that physically gifted as number of other ladies on tour, but incredibly all-round, technically modern, and tactically very solid - utilizing powerful, yet consiten, high-margin shots in constructing points. Problems she faced on US Open, ones she knows and commented herself, were getting tight at the tough closure of match: it was so in a match with Sharapova, and it didn't allow her beat Sloane - she just stopped going for her shots, patterns and point construction in the end of 3rd set and the tiebreaker. Hope she grows up a bit mentally and keeps injury-free to peak at her career in the next years.

"Seems not that physically gifted as number of other ladies on tour"

Tennis gifts are hard to measure because it's a game of running and hitting. Consider Evert, Hingis, Davenport? Physically gifted? My first impulse when I think "physically gifted" is movement ... Graf, Kim Clijsters.

Obviously when @heninfan99 thinks OT "physically gifted" ... he thinks Giorgi.

 

[Dragy]

"Seems not that physically gifted as number of other ladies on tour"

Tennis gifts are hard to measure because it's a game of running and hitting. Consider Evert, Hingis, Davenport? Physically gifted? My first impulse when I think "physically gifted" is movement ... Graf, Kim Clijsters.

Obviously when @heninfan99 thinks OT "physically gifted" ... he thinks Giorgi.

I agree it's not that straight forward, and "injury-resistent" is also a kind of being physically gifted. But still, we live in age of ultimate athlets, who get selected, grown and coached, both strong and smart. High and still fast, flexible like cats and well-coordinated, with high tennis intelligence. No more Davids vs Goliaths - they are Areses, Arthemises and Athens, or at least Achileses.

 

[Shroud]

Most rec male players will never have more than average pace. Some will have a good enough flat serve with enough pace for aces/winners ... but a large percentage of them would win more by just getting more first serves in.

We don't want to admit that, but it's true for most of us.

In that context, I really think WTA play is more relevant to rec male players looking for playing style as a guide for our games. We aren't going to hit serves like Isner (or Serena for that matter), FHs like Nadal and Del Potro. I've started watching the ATP players with less power like Goffin as more useful than all those Fed videos.

I was watching the US Open, and watched a couple of Sevastova matches and was blown away from offense that came from variety and precision. She hit her serve anywhere she wanted, and it had just enough "work" on them to be effective, even at the pro level. She worked points from the first hit ... the opposite of the robotic loopers. Top, flat, touch, slice, any target, dropshot. In the middle of one her matches I had the thought "wow ... I wish my skills were that good and varied, and hit most of my shots with offensive purpose like she does".

So I said it ... and admit it. If you don't have power (and you know I'm talking to YOU ) ... play like a girl ... play like Sevastova.

Lol. I have been hazzled on these boards for doing just that. Mostly doubles. A moderate well placed serve can be a weapon. But you have to mix it up.... and oh yeah watch the 88 us open. The winner was not crushing 1st serves...

 

[SinjinCooper]

.... and oh yeah watch the 88 us open. The winner was not crushing 1st serves...

...or forehands...or backhands...

 

[Dartagnan64]

Meh. I think most guys are missing out if they just second serve the first serve in. Most guys can have a 'weapon' first serve that's effective at their level thats hit at 50% plus. The beauty of a flat first serve is guys have some 'imaginary' victories against it. I see guys serve flat - and they get hot - they hit like four in a row in. A player returns just ONE and they congratulate themselves for getting it back - but they lost the three other points.

I kinda get it. Feels good to redirect pace but your opponent just won 3/4 points.

I don't know anyone at 3.5 that hits a difficult to return flat serve at 50% rate. More like 10%. I have met only a handful at 4.0. Not until playing guys at 4.5 do I get aced routinely by that "weapon" of a serve.
Most flat serves I face at my level are served to the center of the box and once I get my distance from the baseline sorted out I can redirect their balls back to them about 80% of the time.
I've gone out and hit low powered spin serves at these same guys and have them net 50% of them thinking they could just overpower the softer serve. But the combination of verticality and sidespin screws them up. Some of my most successful service games have occured when I abandoned flat serves and just gave a diet of first serve slice, second serve top.

I am pretty sure i get more free points off my crappy topspin second serve than my faster paced flat serve. Some day I'll keep track. The only difference is, if I get a free point off my first serve, My opponent says, "Nice Serve." If i get a free point off my second serve, I get grumbles and muttering in reply.

 

[Ronaldo]

I agree. I wanna hit forehands like Maddie, have a serve like Serena, have the energy and drive of Cibulkova, the finesse and feel of Radwanska, and look hot like Genie doing it all.

While wearing a Catsuit. Is that asking too much for a Senior? Male?

 

[Ronaldo]

Lol. I have been hazzled on these boards for doing just that. Mostly doubles. A moderate well placed serve can be a weapon. But you have to mix it up.... and oh yeah watch the 88 us open. The winner was not crushing 1st serves...

Is that the guy who served in the dark for 90 minutes the night before the final?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I don't know anyone at 3.5 that hits a difficult to return flat serve at 50% rate. More like 10%. I have met only a handful at 4.0. Not until playing guys at 4.5 do I get aced routinely by that "weapon" of a serve.
Most flat serves I face at my level are served to the center of the box and once I get my distance from the baseline sorted out I can redirect their balls back to them about 80% of the time.
I've gone out and hit low powered spin serves at these same guys and have them net 50% of them thinking they could just overpower the softer serve. But the combination of verticality and sidespin screws them up. Some of my most successful service games have occured when I abandoned flat serves and just gave a diet of first serve slice, second serve top.

I am pretty sure i get more free points off my crappy topspin second serve than my faster paced flat serve. Some day I'll keep track. The only difference is, if I get a free point off my first serve, My opponent says, "Nice Serve." If i get a free point off my second serve, I get grumbles and muttering in reply.

Most of the guys I played doubles with during leagues were not bothered by flat pace that they could reach. If you hit a hard serve down the T that wasn't an ace out of reach, most of the time the ball came back. Most of us were coming in behind our second serve, and a hard flat serve returned gave us less time to close the net. My percentage doubles serve was a well placed moderate pace kicker that gave you a couple more steps to close the net.

Another factor in the first flat serve is accuracy ... not just the percentage. We had a guy on our team that played #1 doubles that could hit the deuce T serve at will. Not huge pace ... but a flat serve that hit just inside of the T at a very high percent. That is a very tough serve to return from the deuce court. In his case, it would have been nuts to not use that first serve.

 

[Shroud]

Is that the guy who served in the dark for 90 minutes the night before the final?

Hmm. I dont know. Did he???

 

[Ronaldo]

Hmm. I dont know. Did he???

That's History

 

[Shroud]

That's History

Never knew

 

[Boogslice]

The only difference is, if I get a free point off my first serve, My opponent says, "Nice Serve." If i get a free point off my second serve, I get grumbles and muttering in reply.

Haha - so accurate.

 

[Steve Williams]

I looked her up after reading this thread. I like especially liked her drop shots in this clip.

 

[Dragy]

@ByeByePoly another WTA player to learn from: Dasha Kasatkina. Today's win over Radwanska, and the season's wins against Kerber, Ostapenko and Halep - can find keys to any style, she's smart and with tools. Though not very powerful or mobile as some other ladies, when she's in good shape, can be very competitive against any.

 

[ByeByePoly]

@ByeByePoly another WTA player to learn from: Dasha Kasatkina. Today's win over Radwanska, and the season's wins against Kerber, Ostapenko and Halep - can find keys to any style, she's smart and with tools. Though not very powerful or mobile as some other ladies, when she's in good shape, can be very competitive against any.

Yeah ... have watched some of her matches. Good example. Not a road runner backboard like Radwanska, etc ... not major power, and yet she wins. Offense without major power.

 

[Dragy]

...Not a road runner backboard like Radwanska, etc ...

Did you really mean her? Wozniacki and Halep are backboards, Angie playing more creative and attacking tennis, as per my impression.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Did you really mean her? Wozniacki and Halep are backboards, Angie playing more creative and attacking tennis, as per my impression.

Yes, I was highlighting her speed and court coverage as an asset few have. She is one of the best runners on WTA tour. I almost typed Wozniacki also. I would agree Radwanska goes for more than a Wozniacki, and actually very good to watch with point construction. But at the end of the day, she is winning more from running than a Sevastova.

 

[zalive]

Did you really mean her? Wozniacki and Halep are backboards, Angie playing more creative and attacking tennis, as per my impression.

Agree Dragy, though in the last year (or even longer) Agnieszka is not quite herself, like something is bothering her mentally? She used to be such a superior smart player. I like any player that really uses her or his brain within game, and it's always a minority.

Yes, I was highlighting her speed and court coverage as an asset few have.

You like her asset too?

 

[Dragy]

Even Roger loses his game time to time. And that’s the men tour, where almost anyone can withstand pace to some extent. For ladies meanwhile, it has been so dominated by power, that a smart-style player gets flushed off the court once she appears to be just a tad below her top shape.

 

[Dragy]

By the way, we have Kremlin cup in Moscow soon, will see some gals and guys in person. Although not that big of a tournament, especially men’s draw, but still some live pro tennis - haven’t attended a match for ages. Sevastova should play here, and a bunch of Russian girls for sure.

 

[zalive]

Even Roger loses his game time to time. And that’s the men tour, where almost anyone can withstand pace to some extent. For ladies meanwhile, it has been so dominated by power, that a smart-style player gets flushed off the court once she appears to be just a tad below her top shape.

This is expected and perfectly understandable, but I saw her few times within the last year span and she wasn't playing as clever/smart as she used to play. I was disappointed with this pretty much. Like her head isn't quite what it used to be when she almost grabbed the top WTA spot.
To me she doesn't look as happy as she used to look. Could be something about her private life, if I had to guess. Female players are much less emotionally stable than male players.

 

[ByeByePoly]

This is expected and perfectly understandable, but I saw her few times within the last year span and she wasn't playing as clever/smart as she used to play. I was disappointed with this pretty much. Like her head isn't quite what it used to be when she almost grabbed the top WTA spot.
To me she doesn't look as happy as she used to look. Could be something about her private life, if I had to guess. Female players are much less emotionally stable than male players.

She got married... that can mess up your head.

 

[zalive]

She got married... that can mess up your head.

Yeah, it really messed me up...err, I mean, messed her up...