Sidespin Slice

[kevhen]

I notice when playing 4.5s they can adjust pretty quickly to my slice shots and hard topspin shots and can consistently place the ball from both sides. One thing I have noticed that they still struggle with, is when I hit a forehand approach shot with some sidespin on it, where it kicks away from their backhand and they are sometimes left with bad footwork and bad timing not expecting so much side kick on the ball. I rarely try to hit sidespin slice but seeing that it seems to work against several 4.5s I have played and lost too, maybe I should spend more time and energy developing that shot for approaches, etc.

Any thoughts? Anyone else hit sidespin slice and find it useful against the higher levels like 4.5 and 5.0s? Any other junkballers out there????? Possibly if I hit too many sidespin slice shots the 4.5 player will eventually adjust to the shot but they are just not that familiar with it initially.

Kevin

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Anybody can be surprized by a gimmicky shot once (or twice), but the better players adapt very quickly.

It would be better to work on your overall game and skills rather than trust your luck to one slice shot.

 

[kevhen]

yeah, I have been mostly focusing on my topspin forehand these days. But didn't know if I should spend some time on my sidespin slice shot as well. Santorro has ridden his a long ways.

 

[habib]

yeah, I have been mostly focusing on my topspin forehand these days. But didn't know if I should spend some time on my sidespin slice shot as well. Santorro has ridden his a long ways.

Of course you should. That shot gives you a great option and a useful out in case you're in a tough situation or want to surprise your opponent. There are plenty of situations in which it would be a good move. Mind you, don't practice it as your main shot, but do devote a little time to perfecting it. Also consider that getting better at this shot will probably lead to a pretty nice touch on a forehand dropper - which is also nice.

 

[kevhen]

Yeah I do already have a decent dropshot that I hit for winners against 3.5s but against 4.5s it's much tougher as they are quicker and anticipate so much better. I like the sidespin slice since it stays low so there is no bad place on the court where I can hit it to except out of bounds. With the dropshot, you can get in trouble if you hit it too deep or hit it too high and it sets up for your opponent.

 

[Geezer Guy]

I like to hit sidespin slice on my backhand side, especially down the line.

On the forehand side, I just drive the ball.

 

[FiveO]

Be more selective and work in some variety when you approach.

As opponents get better, they get better in all facets of the game, reads, anticipation, tactical awareness etc..

What that translates to is that one has to be more selective in what they do and when.

The shorter ball that one didn't read or was dragged forward on...

or

a shorter ball you can handle well but the opponent still has good court position...

may not be a viable balls to approach off of because it may be too low to hit with enough authority if the opponent is of higher quality.

You have to be more selective as to what constitutes a good ball to approach off of as to opponent positioning and whether you are in a good position with a quality ball of sufficient contact height.

Also while the geometry of the court and net say that it is prudent to approach dtl, that shouldn't ever translate to approach dtl exclusively. That becomes a telegraphed play and good players, even if not fleet of foot, will sit on that approach.

I believe in approach progressions. An approach "tree" with a minimum of at least three practiced options one has mastered off the same type "appoach" ball. For example off the one-handed slice: 1) deep to the dtl corner, 2) x-court inside the service/sideline corner, 3) dtl drop shot. There are more but those would be the minimum. The dtl to the deep corner remains the meat and potatoes of the approach but you need to "show" the options in order to keep the opponent honest. In order to have all the options you need to work to ensure good contact heights, as the ball drops your options become more and more limited and telegraphed and provide too much time for the better opponent to run down.

-Be more patient/selective.
-Wait out a truly advantageous ball to approach off. "Eh", ain't good enough at higher levels.
-Ensure that the opponent has been maneuvered out of a good position prior.
-Execute the approach with enough pace to ensure placing him/her in a time/space emergency. If you can't > don't.
-"Show" some variety to keep the opponent more honest.

 

[EliteNinja]

Be more selective and work in some variety when you approach.

As opponents get better, they get better in all facets of the game, reads, anticipation, tactical awareness etc..

What that translates to is that one has to be more selective in what they do and when.

The shorter ball that one didn't read or was dragged forward on...

or

a shorter ball you can handle well but the opponent still has good court position...

may not be a viable balls to approach off of because it may be too low to hit with enough authority if the opponent is of higher quality.

You have to be more selective as to what constitutes a good ball to approach off of as to opponent positioning and whether you are in a good position with a quality ball of sufficient contact height.

Also while the geometry of the court and net say that it is prudent to approach dtl, that shouldn't ever translate to approach dtl exclusively. That becomes a telegraphed play and good players, even if not fleet of foot, will sit on that approach.

I believe in approach progressions. An approach "tree" with a minimum of at least three practiced options one has mastered off the same type "appoach" ball. For example off the one-handed slice: 1) deep to the dtl corner, 2) x-court inside the service/sideline corner, 3) dtl drop shot. There are more but those would be the minimum. The dtl to the deep corner remains the meat and potatoes of the approach but you need to "show" the options in order to keep the opponent honest. In order to have all the options you need to work to ensure good contact heights, as the ball drops your options become more and more limited and telegraphed and provide too much time for the better opponent to run down.

-Be more patient/selective.
-Wait out a truly advantageous ball to approach off. "Eh", ain't good enough at higher levels.
-Ensure that the opponent has been maneuvered out of a good position prior.
-Execute the approach with enough pace to ensure placing him/her in a time/space emergency. If you can't > don't.
-"Show" some variety to keep the opponent more honest.

Excellent post on approaching.

Any other tips on approaching?

What if you're forced in and your opponent has good positioning?

 

[EliteNinja]

Oh, when I am sort of forced into net and have a semi-approachable ball and my opponent is in the middle of the backcourt or neutral position where they're not on defense, I sometimes wait an extra second to try to freeze my opponent and make them guess and then go in a random direction. You have to make a very accurate shot to a corner, though. Getting them to guess will make it more difficult to get to the ball quickly enough for a passing shot.

 

[TonyB]

In my opinion, people don't use enough sidespin in their game. I think it's mainly due to the fact that people don't understand how to use it to their advantage. Topspin, flat, and slice are the only ground techniques in the game today.

I wouldn't consider it hitting "junk" or "gimmicky" when sidespin is used. It has a specific place in the ground game AND the net game. I like to use it on a backhand approach down the line to my opponent's forehand side. Not only does it catch them off-guard (and oftentimes going the wrong way), but if you catch the corner, it's nearly impossible for them to return.

And even if they do reach it, there's like a 1% chance of them actually doing any damage with their return.

 

[TonyB]

Be more selective and work in some variety when you approach.

As opponents get better, they get better in all facets of the game, reads, anticipation, tactical awareness etc..

<snip>

-Be more patient/selective.
-Wait out a truly advantageous ball to approach off. "Eh", ain't good enough at higher levels.
-Ensure that the opponent has been maneuvered out of a good position prior.
-Execute the approach with enough pace to ensure placing him/her in a time/space emergency. If you can't > don't.
-"Show" some variety to keep the opponent more honest.

Wow, that's good stuff. 90% of it has already been ingrained in my subconscious from years and years of attacking the net. If it's not automatic, then that's when mistakes are made.

But when you sit back and evaluate the variety of approach situations, positions, and shots, it really does become overwhelming. I think you did a great job of summarizing the real tactical usage of the approach. And that's really what net play is all about: GETTING to the net and forcing the play to your advantage. The actual act of volleying is made SO much easier by proper approach appraisal and shot selection. Anyone that wants to improve their chances at the net should really study that post in detail.

Thanks for posting it.

 

[FiveO]

Any other tips on approaching?

What if you're forced in and your opponent has good positioning?

How far in are you forced and how hard did you have to move forward to get to that ball?

It may be more advisable to roll a ball or float a slice deep on the x-court and prolong the rally to wait out the advantageous short ball.

That being said, sometimes you are committed on a less than optimal approach. Then you are forced to make some micro-second calculations. If forced I eliminate from the options list:

1) the drop shot, in that a good opponent sensing you are forced has already taken a step or two in and is "leaning" forward anticipating a less than forcing, shorter reply.

2) x-court is out in that if you had to bust it just to get to the short forcing ball you are likely to leave a passing lane a truck can be driven through DTL and if you cross hard to cover the DTL pass you are a sitting duck on the x-court pass or lob.

The two most viable options are:

1) high percentage and hope, in other words DTL and deep, gain a good net position and "hope" that the opponent errs on the pass by getting it up for a good volley opportunity.

2) middle approach with depth, limits passing angles

Against higher levels you are at a disadvantage however, the axiom "depth kills" works in your favor here for two reasons.

Time: the extra time you afford yourself to establish a good net position

Less pace: in that you likely are unable to hit the short forcing ball with authority, the opponent is left to generate his own pace.

Also playing to the score gives one more option, the shot-makers dream. Up 40-0 or 40-15 the low percentage outright winner attempt may be a choice. Make it, and you can plant a seed and the opponent may be scared off playing that shot for a while or for the duration of the match.

Also remember that the point was lost, not on the pass, or the forced volley error the opponent drew on the next shot it was lost on that "forcing" short ball and usually a result of not keeping your own preceding shot deep enough during the rally and/or not "seeing" or "anticipating" the depth of the opponent's short ball soon enough.

Tune in to the opponent's bounce depth earlier and you will find yourself "there" in better position rather than "being surprised and reacting" to most short balls.