So I played a 3-set match against the world’s top 45+ player

norcal

norcal

Legend
Can you imagine how good Fed will be at 45?
bowdown.gif
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
atatu said:
Well as previously explained, it was just the opinion of the OP and of the guy he played. However, the Atlanta Tournament is in fact a legitimate tournament, it is a USTA and ITF Sanctioned event, which is known as a "Super Category 2" tournament. You can take a look at the 2019 draws in the link posted below. Note that in the 50's Oren Montesvassel was the #1 seed, he has been the topic of discussion on these boards in the past, as a former tour player who continues to play open level prize money tournaments. The guys who are winning their draws in these tournaments are among the top players in their age groups in the country, at least. I played the guy who was a finalist in the 55's draw and he's very, very good.

ATLANTA SR INVITATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP$$ (Super Category II National, 500 pts) (STA 250 pts): Home

tennislink.usta.com
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Interesting to note that in the finals were won by default or injury in the 60, 65, 70, 75 and 80 year old categories.
 
D

Deleted member 769694

Guest
travlerajm said:
So we start playing the match. I'm not playing that badly. In fact I was playing some pretty solid tennis and making this guy run a lot. But after a point or two, it becomes clear that I have to play darn-near perfect just to have a chance to win a point.

This guy is like a Tasmanian devil of energy. I've never seen anyone of any age work so hard on his footwork on every ball of every point. Every single time I hit a neutral ball to his backhand, he worked his butt off, huffing and puffing and grunting to run around the ball and get his feet in perfect position to hit his big heavy forehand, so that he can start dictating the point with the heavy ball on the clay. His playing style from the baseline also reminds me a lot of Jim Courier. His strokes on the not the cleanest. But he is so physically strong that his strokes seem like he is muscling the ball, giving me the impression he's playing ping-pong, with the ball going wherever he wants it to.

But what makes this guy so good is how he just overwhelms me when he has me on the ropes. One of the things I'm good at is playing defense against guys who like to dictate with the forehand. When someone hits a heavy offensive shot to the corner, I'm good at getting myself out of trouble by hitting a deep reply 5-10 feet over the net to give myself time to get back for the next ball. But this guy completely took this shot away from me. As soon as my defensive reply left my racquet, this guy was already hard-charging toward the net to take it out of the air, usually with a swinging topspin volley. And he never missed a single one of the these, either forehand or backhand, regardless of whether my defensive shot was a slice or a topspin drive. The net effect is that I felt like his offensive onslaught was overwhelming me. My first mistake of hitting what would be a neutral ball against most opponents would be pounced on, and then the point was as good as over.

After it got to 3-0, I'm thinking to myself: I just spent the last year living in South America, where I had traveled around on weekends playing against former ATP pros. All of those South American players were in the 20's and 30's, and some of them had reached career high ATP rankings as high as 300 in the world. And all of them had strokes as smooth as butter.

And I'm thinking, the guy across the net from me today is better than all of those guys. A lot better. In fact, he's at a whole 'nother level, despite being a lot older. So I'm doing the math, and I'm thinking, this guy must have obviously been near the top of the world rankings at some point.

So at that point, I stop and ask him, 'so... what ATP ranking did you reach?'
He launches into a rapid-fire recital of his tennis resume. It's almost as if he's reciting it super-fast to make the pain of unfulfilled potential less painful. I didn't catch everything he listed, but I recall a few items: "Top 10 in the world in juniors. ... Pro tour wins over a, b, c, d, e, f, g, & h". I didn't catch all the names a thru g on his list of vanquished opponents that he rattled off, but I remember the last 3 were Andrei Medvedev, Greg Rusedski, and Wayne Ferreira. He said that by the time he hit the pro tour as a teenager, he was already on his way out due to "too much partyin'."

He said that he's "kind of a homebody." And that the grind of the lifestyle of traveling around the world on tour as a professional tennis player didn't really suit his personality.
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DId you stick to a strat or abandon after losing a few games? Work one side or just going for the open court?

Always fun to play with better players, shows you what you need to work on.
 
navigator

navigator

Hall of Fame
Chadwix said:
Always fun to play with better players, shows you what you need to work on.
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It's good to play with better players but... it's of no use when you play someone who's at a completely different level. It teaches you nothing and is a waste of the other player's time. I've played two guys in (over-50s) ITF events that were so much better than I was that it was just a waste of time for the both of us. Fortunately, it happens very rarely, but when it does I'm not thinking, "Wow, I sure learned a lot from this." The only thing I learned is that we shouldn't be on the same court.
 
R

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
navigator said:
It's good to play with better players but... it's of no use when you play someone who's at a completely different level. It teaches you nothing and is a waste of the other player's time. I've played two guys in (over-50s) ITF events that were so much better than I was that it was just a waste of time for the both of us. Fortunately, it happens very rarely, but when it does I'm not thinking, "Wow, I sure learned a lot from this." The only thing I learned is that we shouldn't be on the same court.
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you think? so I should not have booked Wilander on wheels 5 years ago and played that set? I learned a lot. I even got a few games. I asked him to play all out. now you tell me he didn't try all out. I am sad

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Ok. So the match was an absolute beat down. I was competitive for the first half set, getting to deuce 3 times, but that was only because he didn’t know my game. He was mostly playing my backhand corner with his usual pattern, but after that he figured out that he could win easy points by attacking my forehand and then following it in to net to take away my slice reply, there was not much hope for me to win baseline exchanges after that. My most effective weapon was probably my crosscourt outside-the-ball carve-around crosscourt forehand drop shot. He still won most of those points because I kept failing to execute the lob or pass on the next shot well enough to get it past or over him.

And serve-and-volley was my best chance to win points in my serve, but I was not good enough to string together enough quality service points to get past 30.

So after we finished the match, 6-0, 6-0, 4-0 in an hour, he says, “that was great! It was just the workout I needed to get ready for tomorrow. My ex-student is traveling around on tour, and he’s coming back to town to challenge me tomorrow. He’s 21 now. You know those young guys can be tough.”

He said he wasn’t looking forward to adding an extra hour of feeding balls to the end of his day. So he was pleasantly surprised that I was good enough to make him run around and play some points. So I may not have been good enough to win a game, but at least I could give him some exercise and let him tune up for his real match the next day.
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
atatu said:
It's obvious who he played if you read the thread and look at the video. However, I disagree that this guy is the best over 45 year old, I still think Santoro would run him ragged.
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How do you think my buddy that you played at 40+ mixed nationals would do against this Bull character?

J
 
D

Deleted member 769694

Guest
navigator said:
It's good to play with better players but... it's of no use when you play someone who's at a completely different level. It teaches you nothing and is a waste of the other player's time. I've played two guys in (over-50s) ITF events that were so much better than I was that it was just a waste of time for the both of us. Fortunately, it happens very rarely, but when it does I'm not thinking, "Wow, I sure learned a lot from this." The only thing I learned is that we shouldn't be on the same court.
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Nah i lost many times 0-1 to very good players. They attacked my bh and never gave me a chance to get any control of the point again. Over time my bh got better, especially on the return.

By playing against these shots, your level slowly raises. It may not show up right away, but go out there with someone on your level and their shots suddenly become very easy.

You get used to the pace and spin over time. Like putting weight on a bar, its harder at first but you get strong enough to life it.

Its not that you lost or the score, its how you lost and why.

You only get better when you lose

travlerajm said:
So he was pleasantly surprised that I was good enough to make him run around and play some points. So I may not have been good enough to win a game, but at least I could give him some exercise and let him tune up for his real match the next day.
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When i was younger i played the local guy, richard schmit (sp, he was top 200). Awesome player and super nice guy. He beat me 2-1 but my claim to fame was i made him change his shirt after the match :-D:-D:-D
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Chadwix said:
Nah i lost many times 0-1 to very good players. They attacked my bh and never gave me a chance to get any control of the point again. Over time my bh got better, especially on the return.

By playing against these shots, your level slowly raises. It may not show up right away, but go out there with someone on your level and their shots suddenly become very easy.

You get used to the pace and spin over time. Like putting weight on a bar, its harder at first but you get strong enough to life it.

Its not that you lost or the score, its how you lost and why.

You only get better when you lose
Click to expand...

I got better when I won a few times.

J
 
BounceHitBounceHit

BounceHitBounceHit

Legend
rogerroger917 said:
you think? so I should not have booked Wilander on wheels 5 years ago and played that set? I learned a lot. I even got a few games. I asked him to play all out. now you tell me he didn't try all out. I am sad

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I think the general trend here is to simultaneously over-estimate pros AND grossly under-estimate them.

I don’t doubt a 5.0+ rec player can win points, and even a game here and there against a top pro (let’s say ATP top 300). But a match? Not a chance.

Tennis isn’t the kind of game where winning points is impossible. But the scoring system truly minimizes highly unlikely “upsets”. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
U

ubercat

Hall of Fame
Idk watching Fed slapping Simon and Alex around in casual warm up mode I can't see any rec player getting a game any decade soon.

Funny when he posted that low res trickshot video playing in the snow I missed it was him and said to the Mrs who the f is that guy he s insanely good.

And all this smack talk. I was watching the greatest hits video. This pro hits a pretty good OH fed jumps up what looked like 1.5 m in the air and served it past him. Poor guy was just standing at the net for a minute trying to work out what happened.
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
ubercat said:
Idk watching Fed slapping Simon and Alex around in casual warm up mode I can't see any rec player getting a game any decade soon.

Funny when he posted that low res trickshot video playing in the snow I missed it was him and said to the Mrs who the f is that guy he s insanely good.

And all this smack talk. I was watching the greatest hits video. This pro hits a pretty good OH fed jumps up what looked like 1.5 m in the air and served it past him. Poor guy was just standing at the net for a minute trying to work out what happened.
Click to expand...

Once you get a good serve you can win points off anyone.

The difference gets smaller but it's incredibly difficult to cross that distance.

I've practiced with 2 guys who have warmed up Djokovic for the US Open, I can scrape a game here and there but they are clearly better than I am. Same with them and a top 20 pro.

J
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Was recently talking to an ex-top 50 ATP guy (infamous for being the first guy to knock over Nadal's water bottle in a match). We were talking about the old greats, like Laver, etc. He said when he was growing up he watched videos of all those guys and studied them. We were talking/wondering how those old greats would do today on the tour. Then he said one of the most amazing players he has ever played against was John McEnroe.

At the time he was in his early 20s and maybe ranked in the top 200, when he played (practice?) doubles against McEnroe. Mac was about 50 years old at the time. He said Mac's serve wasn't that hard to return because it wasn't very fast, but he had incredible accuracy and he had the most amazing hands and could take this really short, unreadable backswing on returns and hit returns really low over the net. Mac couldn't run very fast anymore he said, but he said Mac shotmaking was amazing.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
J011yroger said:
My buddy said he trained with Wild Bull in Florida when he was a teenager, said he was a legend, absolutely destroyed every ball.

J
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After seeing how ferociously this guy sprints and grunts around a tennis court for a practice match at age 47, I can imagine facing him 30 years ago must have been quite the experience.
 
B

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
onehandbh said:
Was recently talking to an ex-top 50 ATP guy (infamous for being the first guy to knock over Nadal's water bottle in a match). We were talking about the old greats, like Laver, etc. He said when he was growing up he watched videos of all those guys and studied them. We were talking/wondering how those old greats would do today on the tour. Then he said one of the most amazing players he has ever played against was John McEnroe.
Click to expand...

Matosevic?
 
E

encylopedia

Professional
Will bull is a friend of mine and aside from humoring you, you're not remotely in his league. In fact, he just won a major 45 tournament. It's actually pretty insulting when you say things like "I was competitive for the first set and a half." I know you've always been a fabulist - but many newer posters may not know that. Aren't you the same guy who spent YEARS propagating fictitious theories about your secret racquet research - how the top players were handpicked by corporations to be given the secret racquet technology (literally lead weights) to put themselves in the top 10, and that those same corporations were stealing your knowledge and conspiring against you? No?

Will is also humble and downplays himself - the opposite of you. Will is a super nice guy and will PLAY DOWN and tell you that was great - so maybe don't run off and start a thread about on TW other than: Will Bull was kind enough to slum it and hit with me today.

Shameful.

EDIT: Will just told me he hasn't got the slightest clue who you are (I sent him a video), and thanked me for posting this. He's nice, I'm not.
 
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D

Deleted member 765152

Guest
encylopedia said:
Will bull is a friend of mine and aside from humoring you, you're not remotely in his league. In fact, he just won a major 45 tournament. It's actually pretty insulting when you say things like "I was competitive for the first set and a half." I know you've always been a fabulist - but many newer posters may not know that. Aren't you the same guy who spent YEARS propagating fictitious theories about your secret racquet research - how the top players were handpicked by corporations to be given the secret racquet technology (literally lead weights) to put themselves in the top 10, and that those same corporations were stealing your knowledge and conspiring against you? No?

Will is also humble and downplays himself - the opposite of you. Will is a super nice guy and will PLAY DOWN and tell you that was great - so maybe don't run off and start a thread about on TW other than: Will Bull was kind enough to slum it and hit with me today.

Shameful.

EDIT: Will just told me he hasn't got the slightest clue who you are (I sent him a video), and thanked me for posting this. He's nice, I'm not.
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Come on bro. Give the guy a break.
This was before his forehand became "suddenly amazing."
 
r2473

r2473

G.O.A.T.
encylopedia said:
It's actually pretty insulting when you say things like "I was competitive for the first set and a half."
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Where did he say anything like that? From what I read, he said he got destroyed and that Will was light years better than he is.
ptuanminh said:
Did you win any game?
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travlerajm said:
No
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travlerajm said:
As we continue playing, after getting to deuce a couple times, but not realistically having a good crack at closing a game, I reset my expectations. From then on, if I got to 30 in a game, I considered it a personal victory.
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He also says very plainly that he paid Will to hit with him (so the relationship was that Travlerjm was paying for a lesson, not that they were friends).
travlerajm said:
Before we started, he asks me what I’d like to do. I say I’d like to play a set. He says, in a thick aw-shucks southern drawl, “so... do you want me to... like... try my best?”

I said, yep, give me the best you got. He says, “ok... sounds good.”
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And even though he asked Will to "try his best", it's pretty clear from what he says that Will was only trying hard enough to win, as he was asked to do. Not that he was playing like it was a tournament.
encylopedia said:
Shameful.
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Ya
 
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D

Deleted member 765152

Guest
Ain't no shame in getting a beatdown by a player of Bull's caliber.
I'm ashamed to admit I've been destroyed by far, far lesser players.
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
encylopedia said:
Aren't you the same guy who spent YEARS propagating fictitious theories about your secret racquet research - how the top players were handpicked by corporations to be given the secret racquet technology (literally lead weights) to put themselves in the top 10, and that those same corporations were stealing your knowledge and conspiring against you? No?
Click to expand...
You got @travlerajm confused with @johncauthen

Letter from John Cauthen to Steve Davis

September 10, 2014 Dear Steve, I told you two years ago I would send you a racquet when I was satisfied with it. It was never good enough, so I never sent it. But this racquet I have sent is dramatically good. I have made a breakthrough: the bell-shaped weight. Wilson has been...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com
 
R

RVAtennisaddict

Professional
My friend and I had the pleasure of drawing 57yo former ATP 106 player and his partner has had been ranked the number 1 over 40 and 45 player in the country on clay in the last 5 years. It was an open match. Our goals were to try to win one game and last 40 minutes. We did manage to win one game with a series of insane serving (all first serves the hardest my partner could hit). But was fun.
 
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