I don’t know what I’m doing. In the video you see the ones I dump into the net but I hit some short balls long as well.For driving your FH into the net, are you still keeping the mental concept/image of keeping the racket face closed and gradually opening it up during the forward swing??? Remember that one thread of yours over the topic?
I believe this error comes from that.
Ok, I feel like if I bend my knees more, keep the head steady with my eyes focusing better on the ball I can avoid those short ball errors. And yes also try to avoid going for it too much.
Ok, I feel like if I bend my knees more, keep the head steady with my eyes focusing better on the ball I can avoid those short ball errors. And yes also try to avoid going for it too much.
All these things you said are important. But they are not as important as getting to the ball. Make sure you get to hitting position early, then the rest follows.
Here’s a few from many UF errors I hit the other day.
My slice is usually better, don’t know why it was this bad.
Hitting the short balls is a disaster as usual. What’s wrong and what to do?
Look at 0:05-0:07, its a relative slow ball, he was supposed to win the point. The moment he gets his racquet in ready position, the ball is already dropping. So this is a late in preparation.How is it different from other strokes? You don't need a steady head, focusing eyes with baseline strokes?
In the clips I see him get to the ball just fine.
His dumping got to do with severe error in his technicals, either in execution or the foundational concept. He's correct in saying "I don’t know what I’m doing".
I don't miss those short, soft balls that I can get my hand on.
Think about it, it should be one of the first basics of closing a point, probably only more advanced than ...waiting for opponent to make UEs. That is like a ball in front of a wide open goal (soccer) or being next to the basketball hoop without opposing guards or the golf ball 4 inches from the hole. The tennis version is...any easy ball close to the net which you can get your hands on! You live for those instances.
Again, think about your technicals. 1, is your movement flowing in optimal direction? 2, conceptually, are you 100% on top of understanding power, topspin, targets, contact point, etc.? 3, after sufficient knowledge, how is your execution ability?
Maybe it comes down to levels. You guys' level is such that you need the ball to be at a particular, perfect height, impeccable prep and footwork for you to make your shots.Look at 0:05-0:07, its a relative slow ball, he was supposed to win the point. The moment he gets his racquet in ready position, the ball is already dropping. So this is a late in preparation.
0:25, he took his last step to ready position when the ball has already bounced. If thats not late, i dont know what late is.
I am not an expert in pro tennis, so i cant comment.Maybe it comes down to levels. You guys' level is such that you need the ball to be at a particular, perfect height, impeccable prep and footwork for you to make your shots.
Notice the pro level, it mostly comes down to whether they could get their racket on the ball or not. When they can, they make the shot. It would be weird and restrictive if they couldn't deal with ball at different heights or slightly different timing.
In a way good rec players also have to deal with balls of various heights and timing. It's only natural bcuz you're dealing with as big a mixed bag of players as you could possibly find. Slice, lobb, junk, punch, anything undr the sun to hit the ball.
Don't you find it ridiculous that you have to miss a shot because you are a few milliseconds late to hitting or the ball drops a few inches lower or spins a little weird??
Agree. Being at the ideal position at the ideal time is more important than anything else. I believe this requires some special talent, which explains why serve is my best shot because I don’t need much adjustment for position and timing on the serve.I am not an expert in pro tennis, so i cant comment.
"Notice the pro level, it mostly comes down to whether they could get their racket on the ball or not. "
Are you sure about this????
BTW, tennis is played with legs, a lot more than hand.
You see, Curios had his racket on the ball every time, still, the ball didnt get to the otherside.
I agree with that too.I don't agree actually, every shot you were in a position to make the ball with the correct timing and swing, with the exception of maybe 0:26, but you still managed to get around the ball and get into a position that made it make-able
Biggest issue in these clips is having a big delay in identifying what ball you are receiving and then setting up your take back far too late
Notice that many of your take backs are only beginning almost just before the ball bounces - it should be at latest by the time the ball crosses the net (for low to medium pace balls)
Also as mentioned, just need to think through the shot more, what are you trying to achieve - ideally more often than not, more margin, high percentage, depth, neutralising shots
Maybe it requires talent. But you can definitely do something to improve a bit. Watch thisAgree. Being at the ideal position at the ideal time is more important than anything else. I believe this requires some special talent, which explains why serve is my best shot because I don’t need much adjustment for position and timing on the serve.
I think we should be careful figuring out issues and solutions. It’s quite clear on many of those FHs @Curious is rushed executing full motion. But does it mean he should get rid of the looping backswing? Why, to still be rushed, but now compensate it with limited jerky takeback? And still be late every now and then?I think for those short balls, if you get rid of the fancy racquet circling motion, you will at least have time to put the ball over.
So you are saying that not having the looping backswing is equivalent to a jerky takeback???? Thats ridiculous.I think we should be careful figuring out issues and solutions. It’s quite clear on many of those FHs @Curious is rushed executing full motion. But does it mean he should get rid of the looping backswing? Why, to still be rushed, but now compensate it with limited jerky takeback? And still be late every now and then?
In my opinion, it was mentioned, one should recognize incoming balls earlier, gauge the bounce earlier, start loop earlier and, if needed pause and wait sideways, with racquet back and high, then drop hitting arm and swing timely. Opposite to what happens now: waiting for the ball nipples-to-net, with low racquet, then trying to execute full back-and-forth swing continuously accelerating.
At 1:16 he was running to the ball with his chest on, not turning sideways to prepare his play. If he completely eliminated the backswing and tapped the ball over the net, he'd be good. But that's not a FH drive story, not a loop vs straight takeback case. To hit such shots consistently he should not be faster but earlier to start preparation. Loop backswing perfectly fits there with proper unit turn.So you are saying that not having the looping backswing is equivalent to a jerky takeback???? Thats ridiculous.
Come on, the guy is already slow. you add the fancy circling and he is even slower.
Besides, you dont need much power for short balls like that.
Look at 1:16, he didn't even have time to complete that looping backswing
So you are saying if he was running sideways to the ball, do the circle backswing, he would be in time for the ball? i doubt.At 1:16 he was running to the ball with his chest on, not turning sideways to prepare his play. If he completely eliminated the backswing and tapped the ball over the net, he'd be good. But that's not a FH drive story, not a loop vs straight takeback case. To hit such shots consistently he should not be faster but earlier to start preparation. Loop backswing perfectly fits there with proper unit turn.
Not suggesting you know pro tennis to discuss it, but you should know that pro way indicates the right direction for every player to head toward, even if they may never reach far. Its truism.I am not an expert in pro tennis, so i cant comment.
"Notice the pro level, it mostly comes down to whether they could get their racket on the ball or not. "
Are you sure about this????
BTW, tennis is played with legs, a lot more than hand.
You see, Curios had his racket on the ball every time, still, the ball didnt get to the otherside.
Totally agree. The minute details thing is just a personal issue, some sort of obsession. I’m 100 % aware of what you pointed out. Two things get in the way though to prevent me from working on those:@Curious Just an observation and I haven't read through this entire thread but did watch your latest video. In this and other threads, you talked pretty obsessively about minute details on how to swing the racquet like a pro, but these errors illustrate that you have basic and significant issues with footwork and preparation that go so far beyond minute form issues. That, and the form issues like that you were trying to work on like in the "forehand lag" thread, are totally not important in the scope of you trying to become a better tennis player (if that is your goal). In my opinion, instead of things like learning to drop the racquet on edge for your serve, you should be concentrating 100% on footwork patterns and proper stroke preparation but not the stroke itself. Forget entirely about how your stroke looks until you can get in position to make a good, balanced swing on 95% of those balls that you missed in the video. I'd even go as far as to say that you need a much lighter and possibly bigger racquet since it looks like you have to flail your body to get the racquet moving, and that is despite the bad foot and body positioning.
As you move up in level, you're going to encounter much harder hit shots to much more difficult locations on the court. Again, in my opinion, if your goal is to play at that higher level, you are going to need to learn how to move to those shots quickly and effectively so you can make a good swing. You seem to be struggling greatly with positioning properly even against these slow shots so you would have no chance against faster balls.
I think we're somewhat close to the same age (I play 60's next year) and your strokes, at least your shadow strokes, are much more beautiful than mines. But I'm competing at the 4.5 level and my concentration for the next couple of years is 90% on footwork, 5% on form issues, and 5% on compensation for limitations caused by injury or age. I kindly suggest that you'd benefit from the same ratio.
Good luck.
Yes, thank you.@Curious On your forehand, you aren't getting your feet and balance set. So you're lunging at the ball at the same time as you're swinging, which means you have no control. On your slice, you're chopping down very strongly on the ball; flatten it out more and don't chop so hard.
Who around here can teach me the pro wayNot suggesting you know pro tennis to discuss it, but you should know that pro way indicates the right direction for every player to head toward, even if they may never reach far. Its truism.
Totally agree. The minute details thing is just a personal issue, some sort of obsession. I’m 100 % aware of what you pointed out. Two things get in the way though to prevent me from working on those:
-injuries
- lack of time due to family and full time job
Yes, absolutely: if he immediately turned sideways and raised his arms and split them to be at the full backswing by bounce, he’d deal with the ball with more success. Look at Stan, where his racquet is when the ball is yet nowhere in the frame, and where it is by bounce:So you are saying if he was running sideways to the ball, do the circle backswing, he would be in time for the ball? i doubt.
I never suggest eliminating the backswing and tap the ball. I suggest take the racquet back really simple, swing low to high. Thats it. A lot more efficient than that silly circle.
I agree he needs earlier prep, but the loop backswing is really slowing him down.
@Curious The basic footwork patterns you need for the shots on that video are pretty simple and working on them takes no more time than you are already spending by playing. It's just working on the correct things with the time you do spend.
I'd bet a pro could show you the footwork patterns you need to cover all of those misses in your video within a couple of sessions. You already know the proper components of the swing so most everything hinges on getting your feet in the right position so you can execute that stroke. By getting the footwork correct, you'll be a lot **less** likely to injure yourself because you'll be swinging freely and with good biomechanics, rather than being out of position and swinging awkwardly and with a lot of unnecessary and unhelpful influence from your body.
A lot of the high level senior age group players at my Club are proponents of intense practice sessions. Most of us are not prepping for a tournament right now so 90% of the time, we are doing nothing but hitting and working on footwork. Playing sets and points wastes a lot of time - it's a much more productive session to open up a couple of cans of balls and to start the next ball once the previous one is missed. You get to hit three or more times as many balls in the same amount of time, and that gives you at least three times the opportunity to practice the right thing. You get a better cardio workout, and without the score pressure, footwork and strokes are just better. We save playing sets for the weeks just preceding a tournament or league. This is no different than you trying to swing like the pros. You should also emulate them when they talk about training blocks. After all, the pros don't spend most of their non-tournament time playing sets. They spend it practicing specific things. Emulate that as well as their stroke technique.
@Curious not trying to hijack your thread, but just want to illustrate @Injured Again point about footwork. We are more or less the same age group so it would apply.
I started playing tennis in my late 40's, but I have had a career as an elite sportsman in another ball game, so I might have some natural ability to take into the sport.
I was really lucky to work with a good coach from day 1, I was basically enrolled in the clubs junior elite program From day 1 it was all about footwork, over and over again, in shadow walks and slow motion drills I was taught the proper footwork. It was the most frustrating period where I wanted so much to learn proper stroke mechanic, bas was corrected over and over for bad footwork. After a year or two, footwork just became an integrated part of my game, and then we started to work on groundstrokes, then all the rest of the strokes, finally serve. I did not play any matches for the first 5 years, can you believe that, only working on fundamentals.
It takes 5 years to make a player.
Then we started to work on playing the game, tactics, mindset, playing patterns and so on - very very frustrating to try to put all the fundamentals into matchplay. Loosing to players with bad strokes, all this **** - but but it took some time too.
It takes 5 years to make a player, it takes 5 more years to make a competitive player.
I am there now, my first tournament last year 50+ highest level, I lost the final in a tight 3 hour match.
I am a schooled player so a lot of things are just natural progression for me. I still work with coaches 1-2 times a week, still evolving my game.
@Curious to me you seem like a self taught player (and that can be good too), so while some parts of you game looks good (serve especially) other parts have big holes. But most important is that you look stiff on the court, you muscle the ball (you are strong / fit so you can get away with that) instead of playing loose. You would be amazed how much pace a 14 yo skinny boy with spagetti arms can produce with great technique, you are 3 times as strong but will only hit at 3/4 the speed (high estimate, as you might only be twice as strong and hit with half the pace ).
I would kindly suggest to you to work with a good coach 1:1, find someone with a track record of having produced good players and work with him on a weekly basis. This will a year from now, have you progressed a lot more than self analyzing (getting caught up in small unimportant details), I my mind this is the true dedication: to get some teacher or mentor to help you out in real life.
I am truly trying to help you, so no need to bite like in the racquet drop thread.
Cheers, H
Good story, well done and I agree with your suggestion, thanks. It’s just not possible for me to work with a coach at this point in my life for various reasons.@Curious not trying to hijack your thread, but just want to illustrate @Injured Again point about footwork. We are more or less the same age group so it would apply.
I started playing tennis in my late 40's, but I have had a career as an elite sportsman in another ball game, so I might have some natural ability to take into the sport.
I was really lucky to work with a good coach from day 1, I was basically enrolled in the clubs junior elite program From day 1 it was all about footwork, over and over again, in shadow walks and slow motion drills I was taught the proper footwork. It was the most frustrating period where I wanted so much to learn proper stroke mechanic, bas was corrected over and over for bad footwork. After a year or two, footwork just became an integrated part of my game, and then we started to work on groundstrokes, then all the rest of the strokes, finally serve. I did not play any matches for the first 5 years, can you believe that, only working on fundamentals.
It takes 5 years to make a player.
Then we started to work on playing the game, tactics, mindset, playing patterns and so on - very very frustrating to try to put all the fundamentals into matchplay. Loosing to players with bad strokes, all this **** - but but it took some time too.
It takes 5 years to make a player, it takes 5 more years to make a competitive player.
I am there now, my first tournament last year 50+ highest level, I lost the final in a tight 3 hour match.
I am a schooled player so a lot of things are just natural progression for me. I still work with coaches 1-2 times a week, still evolving my game.
@Curious to me you seem like a self taught player (and that can be good too), so while some parts of you game looks good (serve especially) other parts have big holes. But most important is that you look stiff on the court, you muscle the ball (you are strong / fit so you can get away with that) instead of playing loose. You would be amazed how much pace a 14 yo skinny boy with spagetti arms can produce with great technique, you are 3 times as strong but will only hit at 3/4 the speed (high estimate, as you might only be twice as strong and hit with half the pace ).
I would kindly suggest to you to work with a good coach 1:1, find someone with a track record of having produced good players and work with him on a weekly basis. This will a year from now, have you progressed a lot more than self analyzing (getting caught up in small unimportant details), I my mind this is the true dedication: to get some teacher or mentor to help you out in real life.
I am truly trying to help you, so no need to bite like in the racquet drop thread.
Cheers, H
Here’s a few from many UF errors I hit the other day.
My slice is usually better, don’t know why it was this bad.
Hitting the short balls is a disaster as usual. What’s wrong and what to do?
Yes, absolutely: if he immediately turned sideways and raised his arms and split them to be at the full backswing by bounce, he’d deal with the ball with more success. Look at Stan, where his racquet is when the ball is yet nowhere in the frame, and where it is by bounce:
On your slice backhand ... what I like is how you find your racquet-back position... and you hold it there steady for a bit ... before starting the forward swing by extending the arm straight to contact. While on the second one I understand that your positioning and your approaching of the net may have forced you to swing more down and across on the stroke and follow through ... on the first one I like how you extended and swung mostly just OUT to contact ... and had the mindfulness to harness the follow through a little more.As I said before @Mountain Ghost had literally fixed my slice but recently I just flipped back to my old terrible form. Last night I focused on his tips again and it all changed instantly. Look at these two slices. His main tip was about the take back. The follow through is still too wild and needs to be fixed but I hit the ball very confidently with that ‘correct’ take back.
I really feel I have the right take back now and again thanks to you.On your slice backhand ... what I like is how you find your racquet-back position... and you hold it there steady for a bit ... before starting the forward swing by extending the arm straight to contact. While on the second one I understand that your positioning and your approaching of the net may have forced you to swing more down and across on the stroke and follow through ... on the first one I like how you extended and swung mostly just OUT to contact ... and had the mindfulness to harness the follow through a little more.
~ MG
Ok, I feel like if I bend my knees more, keep the head steady with my eyes focusing better on the ball I can avoid those short ball errors. And yes also try to avoid going for it too much.
I presume you say that by looking at my head movement/position unless you have hawk eyesight . Correct observation anyway.You took your eye off the ball on every one of this errors. Focus is the big problem.