Stats for Borg-Laver (1976 WITC SF)

[krosero]

Borg d. Laver 6-3, 7-5, on October 11, 1976, on clay at Hilton Head.

Borg was 20, Laver 38.

By my count:

Borg made 12 winners: 5 FH, 5 BH, 1 FHV, 1 BHV.

Laver made 20 winners: 7 FH, 2 BH, 7 FHV, 2 BHV, 2 overheads.

Apart from double-faults, Borg made 11 unforced and 18 forced errors. (These errors included 5 on the service return; I didn't credit Laver with a service winner on any of these). He made 5 unforced backhand errors, 5 on the forehand.

Apart from double-faults, Laver made 40 unforced and 13 forced errors. (These errors included 9 on the service return; I credited Borg with service winners on 3 of these). He made 22 unforced backhand errors, 12 on the forehand.

Borg had 0 aces and 1 double. Laver had 5 aces and 2 doubles.

Borg served at 55%, making 32 of 58 first serves.
Laver served at 61%, making 39 of 64 first serves.

Borg won 36 of 58 points on serve, Laver 33 of 64. Borg won 67 points overall, Laver 55, out of a total of 122.

(I calculated the stats in the paragraph above by using the point scores I generated for each individual game. I get the same stats if I add up the aces, doubles, winners and errors.)

Finally, Borg won 5 of 9 break points, Laver 2 of 4. Borg got his first serve into play on all 4 break points that he faced, Laver on 6 of 9.

ABC presented stats for the first set. According to them, Laver had 1 ace and 2 doubles, Borg 0 and 0. Borg was serving at 54% (with 14 of 26 first serves), Laver at 64% (with 16 of 25). Borg had 3 passing shots, Laver none. Borg had 8 groundstroke errors (4 off each wing), Laver 24 (with 16 off his backhand side).

 

[krosero]

I rewatched Tennis Channel's latest presentation and made slight corrections to my count of the errors, Laver's aces, and ABC's count for Laver's FH errors. I also broke down the unforced errors I gave Borg into BH and FH.

 

[Kemitak]

It's like watching the Matrix in code. Post the match on the Tube, if you can.
Please and Thank you.

 

[krosero]

Two clips of this match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMfBpkUJeKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-VeBIal8TU

 

[krosero]

Additional stats

Took these extra stats:

Borg won 22 of 32 points on first serve (69%) and 14 of 26 on second (54%).

Laver won 22 of 39 points on first serve (56%) and 11 of 25 on second (44%).

Nothing really unusual there.

What I think might be unusual is Borg's service percentage of 55%. AS Pancho mentioned in the booth, Borg was gunning his first serve because of the ace competition in this tournament.

Borg had much higher service percentages on RG clay in his finals against Pecci and Gerulaitis -- players who he knew would try to chip and charge on second serves.

So I wonder how Borg might have served against Laver in other matches, for example their famous one in Dallas -- or their USO match which was on Har-Tru like this one in Hilton Head. Unfortunately I don't have stats for their other matches, and this Hilton Head competition was unique in some ways so it's not necessarily the best example of how they played each other (still less how they might have matched up with both at their peak).

 

[BTURNER]

Borg d. Laver 6-3, 7-5, on October 11, 1976, on clay at Hilton Head.

Borg was 20, Laver 38.

By my count:

Borg made 12 winners: 5 FH, 5 BH, 1 FHV, 1 BHV.

Laver made 20 winners: 7 FH, 2 BH, 7 FHV, 2 BHV, 2 overheads.

Apart from double-faults, Borg made 11 unforced and 18 forced errors. (These errors included 5 on the service return; I didn't credit Laver with a service winner on any of these). He made 5 unforced backhand errors, 5 on the forehand.

Apart from double-faults, Laver made 40 unforced and 13 forced errors. (These errors included 9 on the service return; I credited Borg with service winners on 3 of these). He made 22 unforced backhand errors, 12 on the forehand.

Borg had 0 aces and 1 double. Laver had 5 aces and 2 doubles.

Borg served at 55%, making 32 of 58 first serves.
Laver served at 61%, making 39 of 64 first serves.

Borg won 36 of 58 points on serve, Laver 33 of 64. Borg won 67 points overall, Laver 55, out of a total of 122.

(I calculated the stats in the paragraph above by using the point scores I generated for each individual game. I get the same stats if I add up the aces, doubles, winners and errors.)

Finally, Borg won 5 of 9 break points, Laver 2 of 4. Borg got his first serve into play on all 4 break points that he faced, Laver on 6 of 9.

ABC presented stats for the first set. According to them, Laver had 1 ace and 2 doubles, Borg 0 and 0. Borg was serving at 54% (with 14 of 26 first serves), Laver at 64% (with 16 of 25). Borg had 3 passing shots, Laver none. Borg had 8 groundstroke errors (4 off each wing), Laver 24 (with 16 off his backhand side).

A 20/40 ratio of winners to errors isn't going to cut it, if your opponent is doing an even split. As I look at this, Laver's variety of shot/ spin and agressiveness was not inducing enough errors from Borg to pay off for the risks. Did he seem impatient or to tire out?

 

[krosero]

A 20/40 ratio of winners to errors isn't going to cut it, if your opponent is doing an even split.

Interesting, that's true, Borg hit nearly the same number of winners and UE while Laver hit about 1 winner for every 2 UE.

If you throw in the aces, double-faults and service winners Borg comes out 15w/12ue. Laver ends up with 25w/42ue. Essentially the same picture.

As I look at this, Laver's variety of shot/ spin and agressiveness was not inducing enough errors from Borg to pay off for the risks. Did he seem impatient or to tire out?

He forced Borg into 18 errors by my count, and with his 25 winners/aces that's 43 points that he "won" from his own side. But that was nearly cancelled out by his own 42 unforced errors.

Anyway it doesn't need to be analyzed too much, Borg had a comfortable edge in the stats all around. Laver did seem impatient at times, as you can see in the clip I made. Borg's retrieving was getting to him a little.

He did not have a good day on the backhand: 22 UE and only 2 (clean) winners. He did somewhat better on the FH. On his backhand he seemed to mistime a lot of Borg's high-bouncing shots, something that Pancho mentioned frequently. But a lot of these errors seemed inexplicable, without much visible pressure, which is why of course I put them down as unforced.

Obviously with age a player can lose his timing -- and his patience. You know how it happened to Evert, how she said in the late 80s that sometimes she just didn't have the patience that she used to have, to stay out there and rally forever with the teenagers.

 

[BTURNER]

Interesting, that's true, Borg hit nearly the same number of winners and UE while Laver hit about 1 winner for every 2 UE.

If you throw in the aces, double-faults and service winners Borg comes out 15w/12ue. Laver ends up with 25w/42ue. Essentially the same picture.

He forced Borg into 18 errors by my count, and with his 25 winners/aces that's 43 points that he "won" from his own side. But that was nearly cancelled out by his own 42 unforced errors.

Anyway it doesn't need to be analyzed too much, Borg had a comfortable edge in the stats all around. Laver did seem impatient at times, as you can see in the clip I made. Borg's retrieving was getting to him a little.

He did not have a good day on the backhand: 22 UE and only 2 (clean) winners. He did somewhat better on the FH. On his backhand he seemed to mistime a lot of Borg's high-bouncing shots, something that Pancho mentioned frequently. But a lot of these errors seemed inexplicable, without much visible pressure, which is why of course I put them down as unforced.

Obviously with age a player can lose his timing -- and his patience. You know how it happened to Evert, how she said in the late 80s that sometimes she just didn't have the patience that she used to have, to stay out there and rally forever with the teenagers.

Absolutely true. Maybe clay just wasn't his surface any more. It sure wasn't Evert's favorite past year 32. I don't know how often Laver would have faced the heavier topspin of Borg or like players to his backhand . It sure was a very different shot and spin than most of the players He would have met throughout his career. But had he played a lot of it, he sure would have adjusted easy enough. i wish I could have seen this match-up on this surface when Laver was 30. Those brief clips certainly show a tactical acumen to match his versatility in Laver.

 

[BeHappy]

Do you know anywhere I could download this match?

 

[hoodjem]

You could order a DVD of these two greats playing doubles together:

1976 Hilton Head World Invitational Tennis Classic Doubles F -
Borg/Laver d. Nastase/Ashe 6-4, 7-5
(2hrs) (Quality: Excellent)

Here:
http://www.ricklovestennis.com/index.php/player_match_list/borg/

 

[Limpinhitter]

A 20/40 ratio of winners to errors isn't going to cut it, if your opponent is doing an even split. As I look at this, Laver's variety of shot/ spin and agressiveness was not inducing enough errors from Borg to pay off for the risks. Did he seem impatient or to tire out?

That's what Borg's looping-high percentage shots and his speed did to all of his opponents on clay. They felt like they had to go for more to win points. I think Laver played a hell of a match considering his age and the age differential at that time.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Absolutely true. Maybe clay just wasn't his surface any more. It sure wasn't Evert's favorite past year 32. I don't know how often Laver would have faced the heavier topspin of Borg or like players to his backhand . It sure was a very different shot and spin than most of the players He would have met throughout his career. But had he played a lot of it, he sure would have adjusted easy enough. i wish I could have seen this match-up on this surface when Laver was 30. Those brief clips certainly show a tactical acumen to match his versatility in Laver.

According to the ATP Laver's clay court record against Borg is 1 and 1. I think they had two more none ATP recognized clay court matches and were actually 2 & 2 on clay. In any event, I don't think a Laver loss to Borg on clay - at any age - would be an indication that it wasn't his surface anymore, much less at the age of 38. If the score had been 2 & 2, or even 3 & 3, then you might have good reason to think that might be the case. But, this was a very competitive match.

Further, Laver hit heavy topspin himself and hit harder than Borg. Borg's spin was no problem for Laver whatsoever. It was Borg's steadiness and speed, and the fact that clay neutralized Laver's power, that caused Laver to hit more UE's than he would have against lesser athletes.

Perhaps if Laver was in his prime he would have been able to finish more points at the net. He certainly had the power, speed, athleticism and transition game to impose his aggressive power game against anyone, including Borg, on any surface.

 

[krosero]

Maybe clay just wasn't his surface any more.

In some ways that may have been true but he was the defending champion at this event, when he faced Borg. In a format like this, requiring him to play only two singles matches, and best 2-of-3, with some doubles matches, he seemed to be fine.

Edit: to be clear, he was defending champion, which means in '75 he won the most matches overall in singles and doubles; he did lose the singles final to Nastase.

I don't know how often Laver would have faced the heavier topspin of Borg or like players to his backhand . It sure was a very different shot and spin than most of the players He would have met throughout his career. But had he played a lot of it, he sure would have adjusted easy enough.

I agree he certainly would have adjusted to it.

 

[krosero]

According to the ATP Laver's clay court record against Borg is 1 and 1. I think they had two more none ATP recognized clay court matches and were actually 2 & 2 on clay. In any event, I don't think a Laver loss to Borg on clay - at any age - would be an indication that it wasn't his surface anymore, much less at the age of 38. If the score had been 2 & 2, or even 3 & 3, then you might have good reason to think that might be the case. But, this was a very competitive match.

Further, Laver hit heavy topspin himself and hit harder than Borg. Borg's spin was no problem for Laver whatsoever. It was Borg's steadiness and speed, and the fact that clay neutralized Laver's power, that caused Laver to hit more UE's than he would have against lesser athletes.

Perhaps if Laver was in his prime he would have been able to finish more points at the net. He certainly had the power, speed, athleticism and transition game to impose his aggressive power game against anyone, including Borg, on any surface.

I agree with a lot of the points you make about Laver but it's too much to say that Borg's topspin was no problem at all for Laver. You can see he has trouble with the timing and it led to some shanking. I think Laver mentioned the problem during the oncourt interviews, and Pancho talked about it quite a bit from the booth.

To be clear, Pancho didn't say it was Laver's problem in particular -- his focus was on Borg and the kind of heavy topspin that he was bringing into the game, how it was a general problem for players to deal with. So you're certainly right that Borg's spin was a problem for many players (although interestingly enough I never thought Connors had a problem with timing Borg's shots).

Pancho did say he thought Laver was making a mistake trying to "hit" those high-bounding shots rather than concentrating on meeting the ball in the center of the racquet. That was part of his commentary, partly quoted in my clip, where he says that Laver always took pride in hitting the ball hard but needed to do something different against a guy like Borg. I think by meeting the ball in the center of the racquet Pancho meant that Laver might cut down on his errors if he played for more consistency, rather than swinging away and making errors.

As you've said, though, Limpin, for better or worse Laver always tried to hit out when he was in trouble. He got away with it more often, of course, when he was younger and had better timing. That's one thing that has to be taken into account when Laver said he was having trouble with Borg's spin: he was facing this heavy spin in a young player when he himself had lost some of his ability to time his shots (which is essential for taking topsin shots on the rise) and had lost some speed (which again is essential for taking balls on the rise). What he would have done with Borg's shots in his prime is a matter of speculation, but I agree with Bturner that if he had faced those shots day in and day out, in his youth, he would have adapted.

Here are Laver's comments after he lost to Borg on this same har-tru surface at the '75 USO in four sets (NY Times):

****************

The Rocket, usually a slow starter in big matches, responded with a flurry of volley slams in the third set, plus some marvelous stop volleys, to give his backers hope.

“I was looking for my rhythm,” he said afterward, “and for a while I had it. My confidence soared when I took that set. But Bjorn has all that topspin on both his backhand and forehand, which makes the ball pop up. That led to my missing, especially on some big points.”

Laver had some criticism of the center court. “I haven’t seen a clay court where the ball bounces so high,” he said. “I had to keep jumping up to get it back. For my game, I need my feet solidly on the ground, not sliding and slipping and jumping up all the”

Laver admitted that his era as No. 1 was over but blamed the surface rather than his age for his decline. “People brought up on clay don’t get so shaken up by approach shots anymore,” he explained. “They can retaliate on a slow surface with good passing shots a lot more easily than the ones brought up on grass.

“Besides, I’m not fast enough any more to pick off those passing shots. In fact, it feels a bit strange slipping on this new surface and trying to hit the ball at such a high angle. That’s where the difference is today. You have to learn how to hit the ball from here [pointing above his shoulder], plus perfecting that topspin shot from the baseline. That’s the safe new way to play now.”

Disappointed?

“Yes, but not that disappointed,” he said. I’ve had my shakes over the years. It’s time for the younger players to take over.

“C’mon, Bjorn,” he said to his doubles partner, “it’s time for you to carry me now.”

 

[Limpinhitter]

I agree with a lot of the points you make about Laver but it's too much to say that Borg's topspin was no problem at all for Laver. You can see he has trouble with the timing and it led to some shanking. I think Laver mentioned the problem during the oncourt interviews, and Pancho talked about it quite a bit from the booth.

To be clear, Pancho didn't say it was Laver's problem in particular -- his focus was on Borg and the kind of heavy topspin that he was bringing into the game, how it was a general problem for players to deal with. So you're certainly right that Borg's spin was a problem for many players (although interestingly enough I never thought Connors had a problem with timing Borg's shots).

Pancho did say he thought Laver was making a mistake trying to "hit" those high-bounding shots rather than concentrating on meeting the ball in the center of the racquet. That was part of his commentary, partly quoted in my clip, where he says that Laver always took pride in hitting the ball hard but needed to do something different against a guy like Borg. I think by meeting the ball in the center of the racquet Pancho meant that Laver might cut down on his errors if he played for more consistency, rather than swinging away and making errors.

As you've said, though, Limpin, for better or worse Laver always tried to hit out when he was in trouble. He got away with it more often, of course, when he was younger and had better timing. That's one thing that has to be taken into account when Laver said he was having trouble with Borg's spin: he was facing this heavy spin in a young player when he himself had lost some of his ability to time his shots (which is essential for taking topsin shots on the rise) and had lost some speed (which again is essential for taking balls on the rise). What he would have done with Borg's shots in his prime is a matter of speculation, but I agree with Bturner that if he had faced those shots day in and day out, in his youth, he would have adapted.

Here are Laver's comments after he lost to Borg on this same har-tru surface at the '75 USO in four sets (NY Times):

****************

The Rocket, usually a slow starter in big matches, responded with a flurry of volley slams in the third set, plus some marvelous stop volleys, to give his backers hope.

“I was looking for my rhythm,” he said afterward, “and for a while I had it. My confidence soared when I took that set. But Bjorn has all that topspin on both his backhand and forehand, which makes the ball pop up. That led to my missing, especially on some big points.”

Laver had some criticism of the center court. “I haven’t seen a clay court where the ball bounces so high,” he said. “I had to keep jumping up to get it back. For my game, I need my feet solidly on the ground, not sliding and slipping and jumping up all the”

Laver admitted that his era as No. 1 was over but blamed the surface rather than his age for his decline. “People brought up on clay don’t get so shaken up by approach shots anymore,” he explained. “They can retaliate on a slow surface with good passing shots a lot more easily than the ones brought up on grass.

“Besides, I’m not fast enough any more to pick off those passing shots. In fact, it feels a bit strange slipping on this new surface and trying to hit the ball at such a high angle. That’s where the difference is today. You have to learn how to hit the ball from here [pointing above his shoulder], plus perfecting that topspin shot from the baseline. That’s the safe new way to play now.”

Disappointed?

“Yes, but not that disappointed,” he said. I’ve had my shakes over the years. It’s time for the younger players to take over.

“C’mon, Bjorn,” he said to his doubles partner, “it’s time for you to carry me now.”

I'm sure all that is true. Yet, Laver had an even record against Borg on clay.

 

[BTURNER]

Thank-you Krosero. Certainly Laver's age did nothing to inhibit his sportsmanship and honesty.

 

[krosero]

Laver beat Borg on red clay in Houston a few weeks before Borg won his first French Open. Then Borg won their two Har-Tru matches at the '75 USO and this one in '76 at Hilton Head. Anyone know where else they might have played on clay?

 

[Rhino]

It just goes to show how much more athletic tennis has become that a 38 yr old can compete at that level at all.

 

[urban]

Before the Houston final in spring 1974, they met at Tokyo on a rubber, clay like surface in the semis, with Laver winning in two sets. Laver beat Dr. Gisbert, a Spanish clay expert, in the final.

 

[krosero]

I can't find any record of a second victory by Laver over Borg on clay. This is a list of Borg's exos, by "Mats": http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=234431

In the autumn of '76 Borg and Laver apparently played 3 times on clay, all victories by Borg:

Guadalajara, Mexico – Jalisco Tennis Tournament, Clay
14/9 RR Rod Laver 6-2 5-7 6-1

Mexico City, Mexico – Marlbouro Tennis Tournament, Clay
17/9 RR Rod Laver 6-2 6-3

Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, USA, Clay
11/10 Rod Laver 6-3 7-5

The list also includes these Borg victories, does anyone know the surface?

1976
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, USA
Rod Laver 6-4 6-3

1976
Detroit, USA (5-7/11) – Michigan Invitational Tennis Tournament
F Rod Laver 6-3 6-1

1977
? West Orange Rod Laver 6-4 7-6

1978
Essen, West-Germany – Gruga Hall International Tournament
16/10 Rod Laver 6-3 6-2

Borg has a 1-1 record vs. Laver on clay in matches officially listed today at the ATP and ITF websites, and I have him with a 4-1 record over Laver if exos are included (this Hilton Head match is officially an exo).

 

[adidasman]

You could order a DVD of these two greats playing doubles together:

1976 Hilton Head World Invitational Tennis Classic Doubles F -
Borg/Laver d. Nastase/Ashe 6-4, 7-5
(2hrs) (Quality: Excellent)

Here:
http://www.ricklovestennis.com/index.php/player_match_list/borg/

Rick has the Laver-Borg singles as well.

 

[adidasman]

It just goes to show how much more athletic tennis has become that a 38 yr old can compete at that level at all.

Or how great Rod Laver was.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I'd like to know the stats of the Laver vs. Borg match at the Houston Open. To my recollection, Laver stayed back and rallied with Borg from the baseline, and beat him at his own game. That's the first time I'd ever seen Laver change his game to suit the opponent.

 

[borg number one]

Two legends going at it. I believe that Laver and Borg played a total of seven matches and Borg won five of those matches. Laver did beat Borg at River Oaks in Houston when Borg was I believe 16, almost 17. So, basically you had Laver playing Borg well past his prime, in his mid to late 30's and you had Borg playing well before he really matured. After 1976 or so, Borg took his game up a few levels (which is quite natural as a player gets to 20 and above). Matches between them while both were in their early 20's would have been absolutely sublime in my opinion and I think they'd both do some serious damage. I don't think it would be very one sided one way or the other. Thanks for the thread Krosero. Rod Laver and Bjorn Borg are two legends. I know that Borg talked about how he would watch Laver when he was younger and I think that Laver's on court demeanor had a big influence on the young Bjorn Borg. Borg watched him and learned how to conduct himself on court and he would later become known as the Ice Man for his ability to shake off adversity. You could hardly ever watch Borg and have any idea what the score was. Harry Hopman said that Borg was a "complete credit to the Game", which is high praise coming from such a great coach. I think Laver saw great potential in Borg as well. Laver was tagged early on as possibly a all-time great and I think in that way, he found a kindred spirit in Bjorn Borg. Laver essentially passed the torch to Borg in the mid-1970's. Even though Laver was 38 here, I submit that he was still very good and quite fit. Remember that Agassi was doing quite a bit of damage about 6 years ago at 35 against the field.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Hahaha! Not quite. The Houston match was in 74' which would have made Borg 18 and Laver 36. Young, yes. But, Borg's unusually early development as a player was an anomally. In 1974, Borg was ranked as high as #3 in the World. If I recall correctly, that was the year he also got to the WCT final and lost to Newcombe in 4 sets. So, I'm just saying that it was an impressive win for a 36 year old Laver to beat the eventual clay court GOAT on clay.

 

[borg number one]

Here's Borg's record below. That match was on April 15, 1974, so Borg was 17 almost 18. I was off by a year LH. I realize that Borg was already EXTREMELY good. I'm not saying that he wasn't. Yet, he was not the same player he became in 1977 on. That's obvious. For Laver to win at 1974 at 36 was very impressive. I agree. Yet, it was also impressive that a young Borg won the lion's share of matches against Laver, despite the fact that Laver was in his late 30's. Let's give credit to both players here. For a teenager to take on a legend like Laver could not have been easy for any player, no matter how talented he was already. Borg was a prodigy though, no doubt about it.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Bo/B/Bjorn-Borg.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=0#

 

[Limpinhitter]

Here's Borg's record below. That match was on April 15, 1974, so Borg was 17 almost 18. I was off by a year LH. I realize that Borg was already EXTREMELY good. I'm not saying that he wasn't. Yet, he was not the same player he became in 1977 on. That's obvious. For Laver to win at 1974 at 36 was very impressive. I agree. Yet, it was also impressive that a young Borg won the lion's share of matches against Laver, despite the fact that Laver was in his late 30's. Let's give credit to both players here. For a teenager to take on a legend like Laver could not have been easy for any player, no matter how talented he was already. Borg was a prodigy though, no doubt about it.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Bo/B/Bjorn-Borg.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=0#

Actually, I think that Laver won the first 2 or 3 matches and Borg won the last 5-6. So, it was 2 players going in opposite directions in there careers. Once Borg gained the confidence of a champion, the aging Laver wasn't going to prevail against him, certainly not on his favored surface.

 

[krosero]

Hahaha! Not quite. The Houston match was in 74' which would have made Borg 18 and Laver 36. Young, yes. But, Borg's unusually early development as a player was an anomally. In 1974, Borg was ranked as high as #3 in the World. If I recall correctly, that was the year he also got to the WCT final and lost to Newcombe in 4 sets. So, I'm just saying that it was an impressive win for a 36 year old Laver to beat the eventual clay court GOAT on clay.

Just to be picayune: the match was some months before their birthdays so Borg was 17 and Laver 35. In Borg's case I think it matters a little because a prodigy may be a prodigy, but the difference between 16, 17, 18 years of age is enormous. At that age even a few months brings leaps and bounds in maturity.

Actually, I think that Laver won the first 2 or 3 matches and Borg won the last 5-6. So, it was 2 players going in opposite directions in there careers. Once Borg gained the confidence of a champion, the aging Laver wasn't going to prevail against him, certainly not on his favored surface.

Borg did take their first official match (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=B058&oId=L058). But what you say is generally true and no knock on Laver. You mention Borg gaining the confidence of a champion; after he won his first major I'm not aware of Laver beating him anywhere, even in exos.

But that makes sense considering Laver's age.

 

[borg number one]

Actually, I think that Laver won the first 2 or 3 matches and Borg won the last 5-6. So, it was 2 players going in opposite directions in there careers. Once Borg gained the confidence of a champion, the aging Laver wasn't going to prevail against him, certainly not on his favored surface.

I agree, two greats, one just getting underway really and another at the tail end of his career. Here are matches that I see on the ATP site, which includes the River Oaks match in 1974. Borg actually won their first match in 1973 in Barcelona on carpet (see matches listed below from the ATP site). The ATP site lists 7 matches total and then you have this unofficial match from 1976 at Hilton Head. See them below. If anyone knows of any other unofficial matches played (many big money exhibitions especially in the late 1970's), feel free to include those. So, Borg won their first match, then Laver won the next two, after which Borg won the last five played (8 total). I'm not sure if they played other matches though.


1. 0-1 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

Barcelona WCT, Spain; 03.03.1974; GP; Indoor: Carpet; Draw: 32
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R32 Graham Stilwell (GBR) N/A W 6-7(7), 6-4, 6-3
R16 Rod Laver (AUS) N/A W 6-1, 6-1
Q Adriano Panatta (ITA) N/A W 6-4, 6-4
S Vladimir Zednik (CZE) N/A W 6-4, 6-4
F Arthur Ashe (USA) N/A L 4-6, 6-3, 3-6

2. 1-1 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

Tokyo WCT, Japan; 14.04.1974; GP; : ; Draw: 32
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R32 Harold Solomon (USA) N/A W 1-6, 6-2, 6-0
R16 Modesto Tito Vazquez (ESP) N/A W 6-2, 6-1
Q Guillermo Vilas (ARG) N/A W 6-4, 6-3
S Rod Laver (AUS) N/A L 3-6, 5-7


3. 2-1 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

Houston, Texas, U.S.A.; 15.04.1974; GP; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 32
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R32 Modesto Tito Vazquez (ESP) N/A W 6-1, 6-1
R16 Harold Solomon (USA) N/A W 6-3, 6-4
Q Guillermo Vilas (ARG) N/A W 6-2, 6-4
S Eddie Dibbs (USA) N/A W 6-3, 6-1
F Rod Laver (AUS) N/A L 6-7(5), 2-6

4. 2-2 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

Dallas WCT, TX, U.S.A.; 07.05.1975; GP; Indoor: Carpet; Draw: 8
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R16 Bye N/A W
Q Raul Ramirez (MEX) N/A W 7-6(5), 7-6(5), 6-0
S Rod Laver (AUS) N/A W 7-6(2), 3-6, 5-7, 7-6(2), 6-2
F Arthur Ashe (USA) N/A L 6-3, 4-6, 4-6, 0-6

5. 2-3 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

US Open, NY, U.S.A.; 27.08.1975; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Sandy Mayer (USA) N/A W 6-2, 6-2
R64 Mike Estep (USA) N/A W 6-0, 6-2
R32 Ross Case (AUS) N/A W 6-3, 6-3
R16 Rod Laver (AUS) N/A W 6-4, 2-6, 6-2
Q Eddie Dibbs (USA) N/A W 7-6, 4-6, 7-6
S Jimmy Connors (USA) N/A L 5-7, 5-7, 5-7

6. 2-4 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

Palm Springs, CA, U.S.A.; 22.03.1976; GP; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 64
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R64 George Hardie (USA) N/A W 6-3, 6-2
R32 Ion Tiriac (ROU) N/A W 6-0, 6-4
R16 Stan Smith (USA) N/A W 7-6, 7-5
Q Rod Laver (AUS) N/A W 6-2, 6-7, 7-6
S Jimmy Connors (USA) N/A L 4-6, 1-6

7. 2-5 (Laver vs. Borg H2H) Borg d. Laver 6-3, 7-5, on October 11, 1976, on clay at Hilton Head. (thanks Krosero!)

8. 2-6 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

Las Vegas, NV, U.S.A.; 20.03.1978; GP; Indoor: Carpet; Draw: 16
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R16 Rod Laver (AUS) N/A W 6-4, 6-2
Q Tony Roche (AUS) N/A W 6-4, 6-2
S Cliff Drysdale (RSA) N/A W 6-4, 6-5
W Vitas Gerulaitis (USA) N/A W 6-5, 5-6, 6-4, 6-5

 

[krosero]

I'd like to know the stats of the Laver vs. Borg match at the Houston Open. To my recollection, Laver stayed back and rallied with Borg from the baseline, and beat him at his own game. That's the first time I'd ever seen Laver change his game to suit the opponent.

I've got no stats, just this article from the NY Times.

This was in Houston on red clay, April '74.

*********************

Rod Laver, the Australian master, gave young Bjorn Berg [sic] a lesson in pressure tennis today, defeating the 17-year-old from Sweden, 7-6, 6-2. It was Laver's fourth consecutive River Oaks Tennis championship, his third tournament victory in a row.

Laver, who already has clinched a spot in the World Championship of Tennis finals in Dallas next month, extended his winning streak to 15 matches, longest on the W.C.T. tour this year.

Laver, who won tournaments in Tokyo last week and at Palm Desert, Calif., the week before, broke Borg's serve in the fourth game of the first set and appeared on his way to an easy victory when Borg started a rally, broke Laver's serve in the ninth game of the first set and forced the set to a tie breaker.

The Australian took the lead again 5-2, but Borg rallied again and tied it at 5-5. Laver then won the tie breaker 7-5 when Borg hit the next two shots out.

Laver, playing his best tennis of the year, broke Borg's serve after five deuces in the third game of the second set. Laver was down 15-40 in the game before he rallied for the lead.

 

[urban]

Seems, that even at going 18, Borg was a force on clay. In the month after this Houston match, Borg won Rome and Paris back to back. He also beat good clay courters like Solomon, Dibbs and Vilas all in straight sets at this Houston 1974 event. The list of exhibition matches between Borg and Laver is to my knowlegde uncomplete. Mostly Borg won them, especially since Laver was semi-retired since the first half of 1976. One challenge match in March 1976 at Gothenburg was won by Borg, i can track two Laver wins after 1976, one at Detroit and one on the WTT tour. I personally saw an exhibition match at Essen in October 1978, which peak Borg understandably won clearly over semi-retired Laver. Laver had forgotten his rackets and clothing (maybe it was late due to the flight), and was handed some Fila material by Borg himself.

 

[borg number one]

Seems, that even at going 18, Borg was a force on clay. In the month after this Houston match, Borg won Rome and Paris back to back. He also beat good clay courters like Solomon, Dibbs and Vilas all in straight sets at this Houston 1974 event. The list of exhibition matches between Borg and Laver is to my knowlegde uncomplete. Mostly Borg won them, especially since Laver was semi-retired since the first half of 1976. One challenge match in March 1976 at Gothenburg was won by Borg, i can track two Laver wins after 1976, one at Detroit and one on the WTT tour. I personally saw an exhibition match at Essen in October 1978, which peak Borg understandably won clearly over semi-retired Laver. Laver had forgotten his rackets and clothing (maybe it was late due to the flight), and was handed some Fila material by Borg himself.

Good stuff. Fascinating. Thanks for that Urban. There were so many exhibition matches during the 1970's. You had a Pro Tour now after the Open Era, but prize money was not that great save for a few big events. Yet, you had a flourishing exhibition schedule, often with big money on the line. So, you had top players playing a ton of tennis and making a decent living along the way if they were great players such as Laver, Rosewall, Nastase, Borg, Connors and later McEnroe, etc.

Here's some interesting footage of Borg from circa 1973-1974 most likely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg2gzBR9Klg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2h6-i6Q5is (Borg and Nadal with the reverse FH)

 

[krosero]

Seems, that even at going 18, Borg was a force on clay. In the month after this Houston match, Borg won Rome and Paris back to back. He also beat good clay courters like Solomon, Dibbs and Vilas all in straight sets at this Houston 1974 event. The list of exhibition matches between Borg and Laver is to my knowlegde uncomplete. Mostly Borg won them, especially since Laver was semi-retired since the first half of 1976. One challenge match in March 1976 at Gothenburg was won by Borg, i can track two Laver wins after 1976, one at Detroit and one on the WTT tour. I personally saw an exhibition match at Essen in October 1978, which peak Borg understandably won clearly over semi-retired Laver. Laver had forgotten his rackets and clothing (maybe it was late due to the flight), and was handed some Fila material by Borg himself.

Great info as always, Urban. I see in the New York Times archive a win by Laver over Borg in a one-set match in Detroit, 6-3, on Jan. 23, '76.

Is that the one you have? The Times gives just a brief notice on it, and the name of the event is not given. They just say that Laver beat Cox to win the first prize in "their invitation round-robin match with Bjorn Borg." Borg lost to both Cox (6-4) and Laver (6-3).

So was that a round-robin among just three players?

Do you have the score of the WTT match, or the format (I guess it was one set?)

 

[urban]

Thanks for the Detroit score, i only knew, that Laver beat Borg and Cox (in two sets) in an exhibition. The WTT match should have been a one-setter in 1976 or 77. I don't know the exact score. Since the first half of 1976, Laver was retired from the main circuit, which means Grand Prix and WCT series. He was drafted by the WTT, and played a few selective events, invitationals and exhibitions. In 1977, in a break from WTT, he returned to Wimbledon for the celebration of the 100 years event there. He lost to Dick Stockton in the second round.

 

[Limpinhitter]

1. 0-1 (Laver vs. Borg H2H)

Barcelona WCT, Spain; 03.03.1974; GP; Indoor: Carpet; Draw: 32
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R32 Graham Stilwell (GBR) N/A W 6-7(7), 6-4, 6-3
R16 Rod Laver (AUS) N/A W 6-1, 6-1
Q Adriano Panatta (ITA) N/A W 6-4, 6-4
S Vladimir Zednik (CZE) N/A W 6-4, 6-4
F Arthur Ashe (USA) N/A L 4-6, 6-3, 3-6

* * *

HELLO! :shock:

 

[Limpinhitter]

I've got no stats, just this article from the NY Times.

This was in Houston on red clay, April '74.

*********************

Rod Laver, the Australian master, gave young Bjorn Berg [sic] a lesson in pressure tennis today, defeating the 17-year-old from Sweden, 7-6, 6-2. It was Laver's fourth consecutive River Oaks Tennis championship, his third tournament victory in a row.

Laver, who already has clinched a spot in the World Championship of Tennis finals in Dallas next month, extended his winning streak to 15 matches, longest on the W.C.T. tour this year.

Laver, who won tournaments in Tokyo last week and at Palm Desert, Calif., the week before, broke Borg's serve in the fourth game of the first set and appeared on his way to an easy victory when Borg started a rally, broke Laver's serve in the ninth game of the first set and forced the set to a tie breaker.

The Australian took the lead again 5-2, but Borg rallied again and tied it at 5-5. Laver then won the tie breaker 7-5 when Borg hit the next two shots out.

Laver, playing his best tennis of the year, broke Borg's serve after five deuces in the third game of the second set. Laver was down 15-40 in the game before he rallied for the lead.

Thanks for that, Kros! From the beginning, Borg was at once so ice cold and brutally competitive!

 

[BeHappy]

Could you upload the entire match? I think youtube allows 1 hour long uploads now?