If you could choose between a ML120 or MS200 which would you pick? The way I see it the mounting system is the same and clamps are the same. The MS200 is probably a little quicker since you use your foot but has more maintenace since you have to calibrate as its a spring. ML120 you have no worries of maintenace or problems since its a weight. Just curious on the thoughts from people who have used both. Thanks
Stringway
- Thread starter rd0707
- Start date
I have the ML100 (which is essentially the 120 without the stand) and although having a stand would be great, if I were to choose between the two, the 200 would be the way to go. It's definitely going to cut some time off of your jobs and the calibration isn't going to be something that is a drawback of owing it. If I were to get another stringway, it would definitely be the MS200 with the concorde system.
DH
DH
Agreed that the MS200 would be quicker. Not sure how much quicker maybe trims off 5 min or so. However, I believe you can achieve the same results on both machines as both are constant pull, same mounting system and clamps. The ML120 has no conerns for long-term problems since its a weight where as MS200 is a spring and not sure if you could run into problems down the road.
lwto
Hall of Fame
Well it should be pretty reliable, I believe they have like a 10 year warranty if I'm not mistaken. That should alleviate any reliability issues someone may have and further If I'm not mistaken, the warranty is transferable. Again, in my limited experience, i've heard nothing but praises for these machines, try finding a used one somewhere.
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I have used both and opted for MS200.
Here are the cons of each model:
ML100:
* freakishly long weight arm. On Stringway web pics, you see only a fraction of the length of the weight arm. I also own a standard dropweight machine, so I know that ML100's weight arm is much much longer. This can pose a safety harzard. I once tried setting this up on my kitchen counter, and the darn thing almost poked my wife's eye out.
* the weight arm does not fold over to the other side for easy storage. You actually have to pull it off the machine if you want to save space.
* the weight arm does not have measurements printed on it. You need to use the measuring stick that Stringway provides you with. Quite annoying to use.
* inconvenient if you switch between high and low tensions. I believe the 2 weights that come standard gets you up to about 63 lbs of tension. Any more than that, you need to add the third weight, which costs you extra. Now that does not solve the whole problem if you want to string one racquet at 66 lbs and the next racquet at 50 lbs. Then you need to take off the extra weight, since the measuring stick does not provide you with lower tension numbers when using all three weights.
MS200:
* Initial setup: My machine arrived with a mechanism that could not be calibrated by a simple turn of the allen/hex wrench. I had to be on email correspondence with Fred Timmer over 2 days wrestling with this monster.
* Inconvenient tension changes: Changing tension is a 5-step process. You have to step on the foot pedal and press a button to release the gripper, raise a little lever on the bottom, and then turn the dial to the right tension. hit the foot pedal again, and lower back the lever.
* Tension gauge not precisely printed: The lines that tell you the tension are not so professionally printed. They almost look like they have been scratched/etched onto a rubbery surface. Lines are thick, blurry and unprofessional-looking.
* The gripper locks frequently. The gripper comes with a white plastic bolt (which wasn't the case with ML100), and very often, especially when stringing gut, it would lock up and would not release to apply tension, a problem I did not have with ML100.
* The foot-pedaling is not something I would ever recommend to anyone who wishes to do a lot of stringing. If you want to do a few racquets a day, it is okay, but if you are stringing for a living, go for a machine that offers a simple push of a button.
Here are the cons of each model:
ML100:
* freakishly long weight arm. On Stringway web pics, you see only a fraction of the length of the weight arm. I also own a standard dropweight machine, so I know that ML100's weight arm is much much longer. This can pose a safety harzard. I once tried setting this up on my kitchen counter, and the darn thing almost poked my wife's eye out.
* the weight arm does not fold over to the other side for easy storage. You actually have to pull it off the machine if you want to save space.
* the weight arm does not have measurements printed on it. You need to use the measuring stick that Stringway provides you with. Quite annoying to use.
* inconvenient if you switch between high and low tensions. I believe the 2 weights that come standard gets you up to about 63 lbs of tension. Any more than that, you need to add the third weight, which costs you extra. Now that does not solve the whole problem if you want to string one racquet at 66 lbs and the next racquet at 50 lbs. Then you need to take off the extra weight, since the measuring stick does not provide you with lower tension numbers when using all three weights.
MS200:
* Initial setup: My machine arrived with a mechanism that could not be calibrated by a simple turn of the allen/hex wrench. I had to be on email correspondence with Fred Timmer over 2 days wrestling with this monster.
* Inconvenient tension changes: Changing tension is a 5-step process. You have to step on the foot pedal and press a button to release the gripper, raise a little lever on the bottom, and then turn the dial to the right tension. hit the foot pedal again, and lower back the lever.
* Tension gauge not precisely printed: The lines that tell you the tension are not so professionally printed. They almost look like they have been scratched/etched onto a rubbery surface. Lines are thick, blurry and unprofessional-looking.
* The gripper locks frequently. The gripper comes with a white plastic bolt (which wasn't the case with ML100), and very often, especially when stringing gut, it would lock up and would not release to apply tension, a problem I did not have with ML100.
* The foot-pedaling is not something I would ever recommend to anyone who wishes to do a lot of stringing. If you want to do a few racquets a day, it is okay, but if you are stringing for a living, go for a machine that offers a simple push of a button.
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Lakers4Life
Hall of Fame
I've had similar problems with a MS200 TT, a friend of mine once owned. Truly a disappointment with all the raves these machines have.
Once the tension has been set, the speed is about the same.
The biggest differences are:
(1) whether you'd like to use your hand or foot
(2) space-saving. Remember the long weight arm on the ML100.
(3) tension range. Do you string across a broad spectrum of the tension range? Then go for MS200.
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1. Not sure as I have never used a foot machine.
2. How long is the arm?
3. I'm just stringing for myself, wife and a few others once in a while. I don't operate a store or anything.
Overheadsmash
Professional
I bought the ML120 last fall and taught myself to string and I love it. I don't know how the foot-operated machine works, but the drop weight is great - put the string in then let go and it pulls the tension. Lift the arm and pull the string out and it locks until you lift it and put in the string again. Very simple and elegant. Also, it is not a rotational pull gripper - it's actually very close to a straight pull. Also well built. You will not be disappointed.
1. The hand operation is very easy. The foot has to be lifted up a bit high, so if you have any joint problems, opt for the hand operation.
2. I returned my ML100, so other posters can get you the exact measurement, but I believe it was at least 50% longer than normal dropweight machine arms.
3. Then Stringway will suit you fine. If you want to purchase ML100/120 and want tensions higher than 62 lbs, make sure you order the third weight.
Lakers4Life
Hall of Fame
^^^Now he's just making excuses. It's really starting to get deep here.
I have people requesting more than 60lbs all the time. Not everybody is using poly and stringing low. I have some people playing with multis and nylons and using higher tensions. Some granny sticks almost need tensions that high to maintain some control.
I agree with Scotus and would add that the footpedal also frequently snags the strings.
I have both machines and they both have pros and cons. I wish I could disable the mechanism that makes you go through multiple steps to change tension.
Did any of you ever read this thread from a few years back?
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=15379&highlight=frenchie
I agree with Scotus and would add that the footpedal also frequently snags the strings.
I have both machines and they both have pros and cons. I wish I could disable the mechanism that makes you go through multiple steps to change tension.
Did any of you ever read this thread from a few years back?
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=15379&highlight=frenchie
Technatic
Professional
MS200 vs EM450
I forgot that those very big sticks are used in the USA like the Gamma ones. And of course you need high tensions on those. I do not them here.
I can only compare the MS200, that I had before I bought the EM450.
* The MS200 is definitely quicker than the EM450 in pulling but the advantage of the EM is that it shows when the string is still stretching. Again the speed does not depend on the machine but on the type of string that you use.
* Pulling tension was easier, pull the string around the back of the tension head, push the pedal down to open the string clamp and let the pedal go.
* The calibration never was a problem, and you have to do it very seldom, because the shift is very small.
I am interested to know what went wrong with your machine Scotus?
* My machine was quite old and that series had a string running from the end of the pedal to a little bush that you had to put under the long toe.
This string prevented the string from going around the pedal.
You do not have to use the lock at the bottom to adjust tension:
Push the pedal down and disengage the lock on the tension head by pushing the button down.
No hold the scale line behind the scale with your foot and turn the adjustment knob.
I forgot that those very big sticks are used in the USA like the Gamma ones. And of course you need high tensions on those. I do not them here.
I can only compare the MS200, that I had before I bought the EM450.
* The MS200 is definitely quicker than the EM450 in pulling but the advantage of the EM is that it shows when the string is still stretching. Again the speed does not depend on the machine but on the type of string that you use.
* Pulling tension was easier, pull the string around the back of the tension head, push the pedal down to open the string clamp and let the pedal go.
* The calibration never was a problem, and you have to do it very seldom, because the shift is very small.
I am interested to know what went wrong with your machine Scotus?
* My machine was quite old and that series had a string running from the end of the pedal to a little bush that you had to put under the long toe.
This string prevented the string from going around the pedal.
You do not have to use the lock at the bottom to adjust tension:
Push the pedal down and disengage the lock on the tension head by pushing the button down.
No hold the scale line behind the scale with your foot and turn the adjustment knob.
You make it sound as though Stringway invented CP.
Did Agassi, Sampras and Seles all get their stuff strung on lock-out machines?
I still string my gut at 70 to 72 lbs on a 100-sq frame, and that's on Stringway CP.
I don't have a gadget to measure DT.
I just go by feel. Good control, good power, and still very comfortable at 70-72 lbs.
For co-polys, I go from about 53 lbs to 66 lbs, depending on the string.
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You only have to use the third weight if you go over 66lbs. I haven't had to go over that, but I have had a few jobs where I was at the 66lbs mark and was able to do it with just the two weights.
I'm sure there are a few people out there that go higher than that, but I believe them to be few and far between. If you have a lot of gut users, then you may have people up near that range, but I don't think it's going to be a huge deal.
I do love my ML100 and in reality I'm stringing racquets in about 30-35mins just "going through the motions". So I don't think that's too bad for a drop weight with the mounting system it has.
Good luck with your choice, but I think if you go with either you'll be quite happy.
DH
Peppershaker
Rookie
Just received an ML100 a few weeks ago, and with the two weights shipped with the unit it goes to 68 lbs.
The length of the bar, and no hash marks is one of the quirks of this machine. I've addressed the marks with a fine point sharpie. The length adds about 15" to the overall footprint/work area, but having read posts on this machine I was expecting it to be longer than my prior DW.
Overall I'm very happy with the unit.
The length of the bar, and no hash marks is one of the quirks of this machine. I've addressed the marks with a fine point sharpie. The length adds about 15" to the overall footprint/work area, but having read posts on this machine I was expecting it to be longer than my prior DW.
Overall I'm very happy with the unit.
ANyone else have this problem? Why would it only happen with gut?
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Technatic
Professional
Ms200
With the nylon bolt you adjust how far the string clamp opens.
If you turn it outwards the string clamp opens further.
I do not think that it has any influence on the locking system, when no string is in.
What is the problem with the lock?
Do you have to push the button to release it?
With the nylon bolt you adjust how far the string clamp opens.
If you turn it outwards the string clamp opens further.
I do not think that it has any influence on the locking system, when no string is in.
What is the problem with the lock?
Do you have to push the button to release it?
1. Step on the foot pedal and press the button (located to the right of the gripper) to release the gripper,
2. Raise the little lever on the bottom (located on the opposite side of the foot pedal), so that the lever faces up.
3. Now you will see the tension gauge/meter descend to let you see the current tension. Turn the dial (located to the left of the tension meter) to set the desired tension.
4. Press the foot pedal again.
5. Lower back the lever on the bottom.
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Peppershaker
Rookie
ML100 Stand - Stability Issue?
Have had my ML100 about 4-6 weeks and have strung about 20 different racquets so far. Overall very pleased with my purchase the only issue that I have that I've never seen posted is a concern with the overall stability. The three leg stand just doesn't seem to have the stability that I'd expect. Has anyone else seen this?
With all of the various racquets I've yet to have a problem with the hooks binding, had some problems with a Head 2.7 Hammer moving around that I couldn't explain, but I've found that simply pushing the hooks from the bottom up once loosened easily releases the frame.
Have had my ML100 about 4-6 weeks and have strung about 20 different racquets so far. Overall very pleased with my purchase the only issue that I have that I've never seen posted is a concern with the overall stability. The three leg stand just doesn't seem to have the stability that I'd expect. Has anyone else seen this?
With all of the various racquets I've yet to have a problem with the hooks binding, had some problems with a Head 2.7 Hammer moving around that I couldn't explain, but I've found that simply pushing the hooks from the bottom up once loosened easily releases the frame.
I guess I do this a little differently. Maybe it's the same, but the words just get in the way.
1. Raise the little lever on the bottom with your right foot.
2. Depress the foot pedal with your left foot and push down on the head release lever with your right hand. The tension head will lock into "tension set" mode.
3. Set tension with the knob. Self-explanatory.
4. Depress foot pedal and push up on the head release lever with your right hand. You'll feel a click. Release the foot pedal. The tension head is now back in ready position.
5. Lower the little lever on the bottom with your right foot.
6. For good measure, push down on the head release button while using the foot pedal, putting the head and all the springs through a full range of motion at its new tension.
A few thoughts. I struggled with calibrating this machine at first. I have a digital fish scale, and have made sure that it is accurate with my Stringway ML100, which is based purely on gravity. The scale works perfectly. I could not get my previously owned, newly acquired MS200 to calibrate properly at 44lbs. Then I had an epiphany. Too many hinges and springs and not enough lube. Friction! So I sprayed teflon dry lube down the machine, trying to get every last moving part and spring in there. What a difference! Now the machine is much quieter, much smoother, and highly accurate and consistent. I now LOVE this machine!
There's nothing about occasional lubrication in the manual, but anyone with one of these beauties ought to try this, especially if it's been around for a while.
You are right, I inadvertently reversed Step 1 and Step 2. Thank you for the correction.
I could not get mine calibrated, either. My problem was that turning the bolt on the outside of the machine all the way was not sufficient to obtain the correct tension.
So I had to get inside the machine (per Fred Timmer's instruction) and adjust the inside mechanism.
I know what you mean about that calibration bolt, scotus. I had the same problem, with the same solution that you ended up doing presented to me, too. It turned out that I didn't have to take the machine apart (not that big of a deal, but it would take some time). You may find your machine works much more smoothly if you do what I did.
One thing, though. The little window with the numbers where you set the tension can get a little cloudy if lube gets on it. I can still read the numbers, but I may take the machine apart just to clean that off as a matter of pride in the machine. But seriously, night and day with the lube. Far superior operation.
Dave
Hah!
Fred Timmer told me he had never had that problem reported on this machine, that I was the only one!
This just happened for me. I mean very recently. So maybe he was telling the truth? I would want to give a guy like that the benefit of the doubt. He and his company have been nothing but great with me.
Well, you've got a point there. All right, he gets my benefit of the doubt.
One thing that disturbed me though (since I had no prior dealings with him) was that he had so much trust in his machines that he was having a hard time believing what I told him was happening with the machine.
He was more suspicious of user error than the possible defect in how his machine was put together, and that did not sit quite well with this customer who was expecting his brand-new machine to perform right out of the box.
I know what you mean regarding Fred Timmer's trust in his own engineering. And I understand how it can rub people the wrong way. But I guess I like the machines and devices that he's designed, and the Tension Adviser system, and am willing to allow some pride of creation to a guy like that.
I think it takes a certain force of ego and belief in oneself to create something out of nothing, like an innovative tennis stringing company and a system for determining tension that works pretty darn well on many, many racquets. I come from a perspective of being an RN who's worked in the operating room his entire adult life. Doctors can be this way, too, yet they are usually exceptionally bright, well-meaning, and highly trained. They HAVE to believe in themselves to do what they do. I think Fred's this way, too.
So again, though I understand where you're coming from and empathize with you, I'd ask you to stick with the machine and the service behind it. I don't think you'll find people more dedicated to service than Fred Timmer and Mark Gonzales. You may find people AS dedicated, but none more so.
I would also once again urge you to get some Finish Line Dry Teflon Lubricant at a bike shop, or something like it, and liberally spray it on the inner guts of your MS200. You will notice a difference and you may even think that ol' Verbouge had a pretty good idea
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