Swingweight vs stiffness (understanding power and stability)

[tele]

 

[AMGF]

maybe i missed it, but i could not see where he mentioned if these racquets actually belonged to the players themselves. seems to contradict Info here

He did a series of vids where he measured all the big four racquets specs. So at least we know he had these racquets at some point. I do believe these are actual match played frames. What info does it contradict?

I once owned a pair of Dudi Sela’s H22 frames and they were monsters to swing at 360sw (no idea on tw but I suspect quite high as well). Too bad I didn’t have a Briffidi machine then as I could have measured the tw.

These Briffidi machines are gonna be real eye openers for years to come with regards to actual pros’ specs (and especially pro’s TW). It takes out the guesswork and will allow a lot more people to measure actual pro’s racquets and not just a few lucky stringers with access to RDC machines at tournaments (and RDC don’t measure TW).

 

[aaron_h27]

He did a series of vids where he measured all the big four racquets specs. So at least we know he had these racquets at some point. I do believe these are actual match played frames. What info does it contradict?

I once owned a pair of Dudi Sela’s H22 frames and they were monsters to swing at 360sw (no idea on tw but I suspect quite high as well). Too bad I didn’t have a Briffidi machine then as I could have measured the tw.

These Briffidi machines are gonna be real eye openers for years to come with regards to actual pros’ specs (and especially pro’s TW). It takes out the guesswork and will allow a lot more people to measure actual pro’s racquets and not just a few lucky stringers with access to RDC machines at tournaments (and RDC don’t measure TW).

What was Dudi Sela’s racket length?

 

[tele]

He did a series of vids where he measured all the big four racquets specs. So at least we know he had these racquets at some point. I do believe these are actual match played frames. What info does it contradict?

Contradicts the claim (not facts) made in the video I posted above that Djokovic likely played with far higher twistweight than Nadal and Federer. The poster of that video did not have their actual racquets, so I was curious if the twistweights in the tennis spin videos were taken off the players' actual racquets or, for example, if the RF97a was just a first year store-bought model. If the former were the case, the Tennis Spin video would provide the best evidence of the TW those players actually use, but he didn't seem to specifically say where the racquets were from. I haven't seen the other videos you are referring to, but will check.

 

[AMGF]

What was Dudi Sela’s racket length?

27.5in

 

[bfroxen]

I was curious if the twistweights in the tennis spin videos were taken off the players' actual racquets

They were match-played racquets, I believe. Harry pulled them out of display cases.

 

[aaron_h27]

27.5in

Nice, I'm noticing a lot of great one-handers using extended frames : Gasquet, Henin, Gonzalez, Sela, etc..

 

[aaron_h27]

As anything I believe there is indeed a too high. Looking at Djokovic’s spec I know for sure I can’t play with that. But my level of play doesn’t require that I do. What I do when setting my racquets is to get the stability I need to return the best flat first serves I face. After that, if needed, I will add lead at 12 to get the depth I want. I then adjust the balance with weight under the grip as needed.

Last year I made the move away from 27.5in after many years playing with them as the TW was always too low and when adding lead to make it stable the SW would shoot right up in the 350s which made it too high for me to play my best. That’s why I switched to the PSVS.

But I just purchased the new Pure Aero+ because it now comes stock with a rather high tw (14.7) for a 27.5in. I feel that this one might be the 27.5in frame I have been trying to built with its high TW, but plenty of room to adjust sw and balance due to its low static weight. I can’t wait to give this one a try.

How did this work out for you?

 

[aaron_h27]

I LOVED this vid. Thanks for sharing! I learnt so much. I am still puzzled abt Rafa's stick. I thought the twistweight of an Aeropro Drive retail was in the 14s. So his is prostock I guess? Or does the lead he has at 12 get the twistweight to 16?
Follow up question - is there a general rule for how much lead at 3 and 9 bumps TW by? For example - if I add 2g of lead to 3 on a racquet - how much would TW go up by? Or is that dependent on the racquet?

Nadal is using a 100 sq inch frame, 15L strings (1.35 gauge poly), and a ton of lead under the hoop.

I really don't think his twistweight was ever low, not sure who started that myth!

 

[AMGF]

How did this work out for you?

Turns out TW numbers for twistweight are all over the place, see here: TWU TW vs Briffidi TW That frame actually has a low tw like many extended frames so by the time I raised tw with lead at 3 and 9 the sw had shot up over 350 and the frame is a lot less fun. So you either have that fun powerful and spinny stock frame, or a stable but more sluggish frame when modified. I gave it a ton of time/tests and I just could make it work for me.

I'm currently toying with Rafa Origin and the Solinco White out xtd28. Rafa Origin has all the tw and stability you can dream of. The sw is a bit high but I don't mind. Great frame.

The XTD28 is not as stable for sure (like all extended frames) and needed lead at 3 and 9 as well but for some reason is very easy to swing despite its high sw once modified. It is very good at the serve especially on my 2nd serves. So it's a hard decision for me now between these two.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Turns out TW numbers for twistweight are all over the place, see here: TWU TW vs Briffidi TW That frame actually has a low tw like many extended frames so by the time I raised tw with lead at 3 and 9 the sw had shot up over 350 and the frame is a lot less fun. So you either have that fun powerful and spinny stock frame, or a stable but more sluggish frame when modified. I gave it a ton of time/tests and I just could make it work for me.

I'm currently toying with Rafa Origin and the Solinco White out xtd28. Rafa Origin has all the tw and stability you can dream of. The sw is a bit high but I don't mind. Great frame.

The XTD28 is not as stable for sure (like all extended frames) and needed lead at 3 and 9 as well but for some reason is very easy to swing despite its high sw once modified. It is very good at the serve especially on my 2nd serves. So it's a hard decision for me now between these two.

Has anyone taken the bumper off an Origin to see if it's possible to identify where the extra weight is? If it's at the ends of the headguard, SW and TW will be increased.

 

[AMGF]

Has anyone taken the bumper off an Origin to see if it's possible to identify where the extra weight is? If it's at the ends of the headguard, SW and TW will be increased.

I don't know and I won't take mine off. But maybe @Babolat Official knows something about it.

 

[aaron_h27]

Turns out TW numbers for twistweight are all over the place, see here: TWU TW vs Briffidi TW That frame actually has a low tw like many extended frames so by the time I raised tw with lead at 3 and 9 the sw had shot up over 350 and the frame is a lot less fun. So you either have that fun powerful and spinny stock frame, or a stable but more sluggish frame when modified. I gave it a ton of time/tests and I just could make it work for me.

I'm currently toying with Rafa Origin and the Solinco White out xtd28. Rafa Origin has all the tw and stability you can dream of. The sw is a bit high but I don't mind. Great frame.

The XTD28 is not as stable for sure (like all extended frames) and needed lead at 3 and 9 as well but for some reason is very easy to swing despite its high sw once modified. It is very good at the serve especially on my 2nd serves. So it's a hard decision for me now between these two.

Extended frames with large head size seems like a good combo. The larger head can make up for the removal of the weight.

 

[eric42]

After buying a SW machine and measuring a whole bunch of frames, I gave up trying to correlate SW numbers with how a racquet feels to swing or how much plow it has. For example I have a Blade V6 that measures 5 SW pts higher than a Percept 97H I have, but which feels lighter to swing and with less plow. Have two particular pro stock Blades that measure 352 and 335 SW and I swear the one that measures 335 feels ever so slightly heavier to swing, and I feel about same plow from both. For two frames of the same static weight and balance, a higher SW number essentially just indicates that the mass distribution in the frame is more polarized than the lower SW frame. To me, this just doesn't necessarily correlate to the feel of how heavy or light a racquet actually swings, or how much plow power it has.

 

[Fintft]

I agree. The only question I have so far is "can you go too high?" Or is it just the "how much static and SW you can handle - maximize your TW within that"

I do add lead at 9-10 and 2-3 on my frames as a general rule, but as of today try to stay with 330-332 SW (was using 338-340 before that).

I went the opposite, as I prefer a 349 SW prostock (293.1 27.25") 343g, to a 326SW Shift 300 334g, b/c it swings almost as easily, but with with way more power. Probably due to lower TW.

@AMGF as well. What's the SW of your XTD28 ?

 

[Dragy]

I went the opposite, as I prefer a 349 SW prostock (293.1 27.25") 343g, to a 326SW Shift 300 334g, b/c it swings almost as easily, but with with way more power. Probably due to lower TW.

@AMGF as well. What's the SW of your XTD28 ?

I’m currently using GPro with ~338 SW and 344g static. It’s good when focused and engaged, and why shouldn’t I be

 

[AMGF]

@AMGF as well. What's the SW of your XTD28 ?

Stock it was 345sw/12.6tw.
I added lead at 3/9 and now I’m at 352sw/13.6tw.

It feels like a good compromise. Tw is a bit low, however it does feel more stable than the number would seem to indicate. Maybe the sw helps a bit in that regard.

I’m playing it along with my Rafa Origin on friday to see if I can make up my mind.