They are good. But not THAT good to deny Slam wins to next ATG till they become 35-36. Nadal and Djokovic were beating Federer during his peak/prime years. If there had come a new ATG in say 2014 - I have no doubt he would find the way to win Slams beating Big 3 even back then. He would definitely dominate 35 yo dinosaurs and send them to retirement for sure. Two generations were terrible that helped Big 3 to inflate their numbers..
Tennis desperately needs Alcaraz/Rune/Sinner to beat Djokodal
- Thread starter MichelaDe
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They are good. But not THAT good to deny Slam wins to next ATG till they become 35-36. Nadal and Djokovic were beating Federer during his peak/prime years. If there had come a new ATG in say 2014 - I have no doubt he would find the way to win Slams beating Big 3 even back then. He would definitely dominate 35 yo dinosaurs and send them to retirement for sure. Two generations were terrible that helped Big 3 to inflate their numbers..
speedysteve
Legend
"nothing ***** you like time" Ser Davos GoT
I can't wait for 'them' both to retire.
I can't wait for 'them' both to retire.
Nadal_Django
Legend
Would be a great for tennis if Alcaraz- Rune would be our 2023 RG final. Great young talents, great personalities, new great rivalry in the making.For the tennis future we do. Don’t get much wrong what djokodal is doing is incredible and their dominance is amazing to watch. However, to create new stories of course it would be great for tennis if an alcaraz/Rune/Sinner took the big step and upset djokodal in a big major semi final or final. We will see but djokodal aren’t going to make it easy for them.
Even if djokodal don’t win another match they already the top 2 GOATs and just fighting for the top prize. It’s up to the younger players to do something and make a name for themselves.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
I’d settle for that! Then Novak wins Wimbledon the final major for djokodal era. Then if they like the young guys can take over fullyWould be a great for tennis if Alcaraz- Rune would be our 2023 RG final. Great young talents, great personalities, new great rivalry in the making.
Thedesertfox
Professional
Rune and Alcaraz GS final? Hopefully danish little fu.... will never reach a GS finalI’d settle for that! Then Novak wins Wimbledon the final major for djokodal era. Then if they like the young guys can take over fully
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Seeing new faces is good. It may not be Rune though. We will see how things develop this year.
Thedesertfox
Professional
I really hope Sinner will reach a GS final asap. Or another masters final
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
He’s got the talent and mentality. Just needs to fix some parts of his game. Hopefully he does that to make next step. He’s not far away if we look at his last few grand slam losses in 5 sets.
Thedesertfox
Professional
Last 3 GS losses were painful a.f.
Narrow loss to Tsitsi, maybe a slight choke to Alcaraz and his ankle betrayed him in a match against Djokovic. Pity
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
He still got plenty of time ahead. This year is big one for him though. Needs to build on last year. Looking forward to seeing him and alcaraz back in action. Even though I want Djokovic to win more, I’m also interested to see which of things younger players are going to have best career and go to next level.
As well as seeing how Meddy/tsitsipa/Zverev respond.
Thedesertfox
Professional
Tsitsipas is in zone right now, will be a big challenge for everyone (except Novaxx of course xd). Zverev s game is still a bit shaky. Medvedev?
Well his counterpunching does not seem to work anymore, almost every top player has figured him out
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
I agree that tsitsipas is right there but needs to get over his mental block with Novak or hope someone takes him out. Needs to work on his BH and return a bit more but he’s close.
Zverev needs to get fit again, cut out the DFs on serve and control his ratio between winners to errors. He’s got a solid game but just needs to be a bit more consistent on FH and BH side.
As for Meddy he needs to go back to the drawing board. His game has been worked out by many players. He needs to be more aggressive with his FH and BH, come to the net more and mix up his game. He is too defensive and he’s not aggressive enough.
We will see how they go.
Thedesertfox
Professional
I think that Zverev has one of the best BH on the tour, he is right up there with Sinner and Novak. However his FH is sometimes a bit shaky, second serve is a disaster, always has been
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Yeah I agree. Zverev BH really good but his FH can be a bit erratic and also tentative in the big points. Yeah the second serve really kills him and his team really need to work on that. I still have faith in the guy if he can get over his injury. He’s fun to watch when he’s on his game.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
And Nadal beat old man Andre in Canada Masters final as well as at Wimby (not to split hairs to OP for a good thread topic)
Yeah, too late for me. I said here a few years ago, Novak needed to properly loose some slams to contenders( neck ball and cryfest don’t count), and then overcome the adversity by then beating said contenders in subsequent slams…didn’t happen, so unfortunately the present day results are tainted, imo.
I just want him to continue winning now, also Nadal (though I feel his body won’t allow this). When these warriors start to loose, it will be because they are just too old. And then we will be left with a bunch of pretenders flailing about.
I just want him to continue winning now, also Nadal (though I feel his body won’t allow this). When these warriors start to loose, it will be because they are just too old. And then we will be left with a bunch of pretenders flailing about.
dking68
Legend
As much as I am a fan of Sinner, I think even if he hadn’t rolled his ankle in the Djokovic match, he would’ve lost the last set 6-2 anyways. Djokovic was playing at a grass level he was not accustomed to
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
Absolutely no chance that either are anything like Nadal at that age. Cmon man.
I wasnt really following Djokovic at 19 to have an opinion on him, but Nadals level for that age will probably never be seen in our lifetimes.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Federer beat Sampras too.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Injured by his parents' marital problems
Thedesertfox
Professional
They are just kids. Alcaraz might win 10, Sinner MAY win 4 or 5 slams. Rune hopefully none. Even 250 is too good for that son of a b....
dking68
Legend
I actually think Sinner will complete the career grand slam. I see him having a sharapova like career, who herself is a mentor to him
Thedesertfox
Professional
Sharapova has a CGS?
dking68
Legend
All 4 majors?
dking68
Legend
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
No, it doesn’t. IMO It’s interesting to see how, when, why, etc. Djokodal get taken over. It’s definitely coming soon to a theatre…. but how it happens will be dramatic, one would think.
daggerman
Hall of Fame
Having gone back and watched many Nadal matches from when he was 19, it's pretty clear to me that he wasn't as good as Rune and Alcaraz at the same age. He was better relative to his peers at the time (especially on clay, obviously), but in absolute terms, it's not that close.
Not an indictment on his tennis ability. It was nearly 20 years ago! Of course the level wasn't as high.
California
Semi-Pro
The Big 3 had two basic things that the Lost/Next Gen don’t have. Desire and belief! This is what the kids lack. Fed wanted to knock off Agassi and Sampras, and he did. Nadal wasn’t intimidated by Fed and played him tough and beat him right from the start. Joker came up and was drive to beat Fed and Nadal and wanted the records.
The kids want money, popularity, fame, and an easy life. They don’t want stress, they don’t want to grind. It’s not worth the extra effort to get great. They aren’t driven to knock the old guard off. Listen to their interviews. They are in awe of and intimidated by Nadal/Joker! They don’t believe they can beat them, even in their mid thirties. It’s embarrassing.
StannisTheMannis
Hall of Fame
Alcaraz and Rune are the only 2 players in the past 10-12 years who have the same mentality that Novak did in 08-10 in believing that not only could he beat Fedal, he could tear them apart.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Lets see if RG shows us something from these younger players.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Yeah we will see happens. Someone needs to step up for the sport. The most likely is alcaraz but of course it could be another young star.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I think Alcaraz will be looking to make his move on the clay this year. RG is his next big goal, after already having won a slam and becoming number one.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
I agree. It’s the next logical step and he was impressive on the clay last year. His injury was unfortunate but provided he’s back soon and picks form fast he can get back to some of his top level performances again. As he has a bit more experience and a bit physically stronger he has a good chance to make more waves.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yes, he also has the monkey off his back in regarding breaking through to win his first slam. He's been there and done that now. Last year, credit to Zverev in that quarter final, but the Z man was playing probably his best RG ever, pushing even Nadal hard in the next round before the injury. Now, I could be wrong and Carlos lays an egg, but he looks more like a player who thrives in the big time. He will be fresh for clay, it is about putting it all together.
President
Legend
This is a parody post, right?
daggerman
Hall of Fame
Forgive me for not thinking the world has collectively gotten worse at tennis since the mid-2000s.
I agree, it was crushing when Rune couldn't close out Rublev at AO. I'm not saying he would have won vs. Novak but it would have been more entertaining for sure. I knew Rublev would be a dead loss, he already hinted he was scared of playing Novak before Novak had even played De Minaur
President
Legend
So you think Nadal, at age 36 with a completely broken body, is better than he was in 2008?
Enceladus
Legend
OldschoolKIaus
Hall of Fame
Pete "Break point down and 2nd serve? ACE lmao sorry Andre" Sampras was never beaten
TTMR
Hall of Fame
Sampras, probably not. He was getting routined by people like Hewitt who were young and hungry, doubtful he could have survived peak Federer's emergence. Agassi did extend his career into his thirties, and won one slam at age 31 (which was shockingly old at the time).
daggerman
Hall of Fame
36-year-old Nadal with a "completely broken body" has lost 7 of his last 9 matches. Why would I hold his current level in high regard? He's not winning.
But was he better in 2019 than 2008? Absolutely. It requires a higher level of tennis to be the best player (or among the best players) now than it did 15 years ago.
President
Legend
On a technical level, tell me why his forehand, backhand, footwork, speed, and return of serve were better in 2019 than 2008.
daggerman
Hall of Fame
Why? You tell me why 2008 was better. On a "technical level," while we're at it. You're the one who bothered me lol.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
He might have been strategically/tactically smarter in 2019 but his level of physicality in 2008 was outrageous
daggerman
Hall of Fame
I generally value surplus strategic/tactical smarts over surplus physicality. Nadal was plenty physical in 2019.
Nadal also just performed better in 2019. He won 55.97% of his points (1.44 dominance ratio) compared to 54.98% (1.35) in 2008. I believe it was harder to win tennis matches in 2019 than in 2008 because the overall level was higher, so that Nadal was statistically better in 2019 before adjusting for that difference in level is fairly convincing to me.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Sampras and Agassi weren't winning anymore slams with Fed in the way anyway.
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