Tennis has the Best Athletes of Any Other Sport

[Kirijax]

The discussion about the most difficult sport has pretty interesting and I learned more about some sports than I never knew before. It's obvious ESPN's list was from an entirely American viewpoint but it did open up the way to some interesting ideas.
But what about the sport with the best athlete? Some sports may be more difficult than tennis but does any other sport require more from its top players than tennis does? You watch a five-hour Djokovic-Nadal match and wonder how in the world they can do that at that level for that long. It's simply incredibly. Any other sports out there that require the full package of an athlete like tennis does? some may be close but I would pit tennis up against any of them.

Sport with the Best Athletes

 

[Def]

You could argue for boxing in terms of what the players have to go through. Really any 1 on 1 sport demands more from the players (except golf of course)

 

[ednegroni]

The hardest thing to do of any sport is trying to hit a 100mph pitch and then a 80mph curve ball.

I still consider tennis the most difficult sport because it requires SO MUCH to be competitive. Most people have no idea what it's like to try and make it as a pro, and how to stay atop the rankings.

That said, I think you can't choose one discipline over another, but the best athletes for me in:

Tennis
Swimming
Rock Climbing

 

[heninfan99]

I can make contact if you give me a few days of hitting again but give me a few years and I'll still never run a
4 minute mile.

The hardest thing to do of any sport is trying to hit a 100mph pitch and then a 80mph curve ball.

I still consider tennis the most difficult sport because it requires SO MUCH to be competitive. Most people have no idea what it's like to try and make it as a pro, and how to stay atop the rankings.

That said, I think you can't choose one discipline over another, but the best athletes for me in:

Tennis
Swimming
Rock Climbing

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Phil Taylor?

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

I can make contact if you give me a few days of hitting again but in a few years I'll never run a 4 minute mile.

What does this even mean?

Making contact with the ball is the same as learning how to walk.


Running a 4 minute mile is more comparable to becoming somebody who is a pro or on the verge of becoming a pro at tennis.

If given a few years, would you achieve either?

Did I miss the point here..

 

[Backspin1183]

You've got to be kidding me.

 

[heninfan99]

You didn't really qualify your statement. If you said maintaining a 300+ batting average in the pros --yes this is very hard but just hitting a fast curve, still hard but not close to the top end challenges in sports.

What does this even mean?

Making contact with the ball is the same as learning how to walk.


Running a 4 minute mile is more comparable to becoming somebody who is a pro or on the verge of becoming a pro at tennis.

If given a few years, would you achieve either?

Did I miss the point here..

 

[heninfan99]

Best athletes. Yes I think the modern tennis player is up there.
I also think gymnasts are at the top of the list. Then you have pure endurance athletes. Tennis and some combat sports require both endurance and explosiveness. Some X-games require balance and agility but also incredible guts.

 

[Russeljones]

The discussion about the most difficult sport has pretty interesting and I learned more about some sports than I never knew before. It's obvious ESPN's list was from an entirely American viewpoint but it did open up the way to some interesting ideas.
But what about the sport with the best athlete? Some sports may be more difficult than tennis but does any other sport require more from its top players than tennis does? You watch a five-hour Djokovic-Nadal match and wonder how in the world they can do that at that level for that long. It's simply incredibly. Any other sports out there that require the full package of an athlete like tennis does? some may be close but I would pit tennis up against any of them.

Sport with the Best Athletes

Djokovic and Nadal only play tennis for about half the match time.

There are a lot more demanding sports, physically.

 

[mbm0912]

Tennis is more demanding physically and mentally than the more popular "American Sports". Brainless jocks can excel on a team in baseball, football and basketball, whereas tennis requires a physically and mentally superior athlete. As mentioned above, swimming and gymnastics are above other sports as well.

 

[Jessekershaw]

I think what puts tennis at the top of the list is that it requires both amazing skill and endurance. Further it requires instant bursts of endurance plus long term endurance, such as a long point, and the prospect of another five hours of those. Being a major league pitcher, or hitting against one requires incredible skill but not necessarily great endurance. A pitcher knows after 100 pitches he's probably done, the hitter knows there are only 9 innings and he really only has to burst to first base. Further if you are a skilled hitter you will often be at a position like first base that requires little other physical movement. Rarely do you see a short stop that's also the hit leader. Plus there's the whole team and constant coaching attribute.

I'm not a master of swimming or cycling but those to me seem more about endurance and genetics than incredible skill. Obviously there is critical technique but its completely repetitive, limited in distance, without the impact of competitors. You can't really force an error on a competitor.

Boxing on the other hand requires in credible skill, but also the short bursts of endurance, but not the long term. There are only so many rounds and the explosiveness is limited to those rounds. You can train for that. I would bet that a boxer knows within a second or two when the round will end intuitively from their training.

I can't think of another sport that has no time limits, no team, no coaching during, no distance limit, high skill level, and the impact of another person directly affecting you.

It's still opinion but based on that it certainly seems tennis could be the toughest.

I actually just returned (using the term loosely) for half an hour against our new club pro who had tried to make it on tour a couple years back after playing div 1 college ball. His serve was like nothing you see in the 4.5/5.0 Usta world, clearly a different skill level. When I asked him what kept him from finding success on tour he said without question the physicality of play. That his opponents were ungodly fast, hit hard, and went forever. He said he had been up 5-1 in a third set and lost being ground down, that you have to construct every point and be ready for anything to come back, adding mentality and plan to physical endurance. Interesting stuff.

 

[insideguy]

Tennis is more demanding physically and mentally than the more popular "American Sports". Brainless jocks can excel on a team in baseball, football and basketball, whereas tennis requires a physically and mentally superior athlete. As mentioned above, swimming and gymnastics are above other sports as well.

If you think brainless jocks can exel in baseball you dont know anything about baseball. And really neither do you know anything about basketball. But baseball in paticular is a skill set that just takes so much skill that the greatest basketball player in history (Jordan) could not even make it out of double a.

 

[Backspin1183]

In tennis 4-5 hours will have about 45 min breaks in a match. You serve, hit a forehand winner. You get a towel to wipe your face, take about 20-30 seconds between points. Then there's a change over.
I love tennis and like Rafa Nadal but I'm not sure he can compete against a friend of mine who ran a 42.5 km marathon the other day.

I've played tennis, football, rugby, cricket, and I found rugby and football more physical than tennis.

 

[droliver]

I don't think Michael Jordan is a real good example about the difficulty of baseball. That someone with no real background in it could even pass for a low level professional undercuts the difficulty of the sport. In truth, having seen him play baseball here in person, he did not belong on the field. Very awkward movement and a complete lack of instincts, consistent with someone who was not an experienced player.

While that was mostly a PR stunt and Jordan would not have even been a draft level prospect, could you imagine him saying "I want to try pro tennis" with a similar background? He could practice for years and probably not even get to a high level junior skill level.

 

[Kenshin]

I played soccer, volleyball, tennis and boxing and a lot of different sports. I find boxing as the toughtest of all sports because how physical it is. Tennis matches are longer but you can take a break between points. In boxing you have to survive at least three mimunites with all the pressure you get from your opponent.

 

[Backspin1183]

I played scoccer, volleyball, tennis and boxing and a lot of different sports. I find boxing as the toughtest of all sports because how physical it is. Tennis matches are longer but you can take a break between points. In boxing you have to survive at least three mimunites with all the pressure you get from your opponent.

Boxing's much tougher physically than tennis.

I used to run 5-10 km almost every morning in my teenage years. I found playing tennis easier. Never played a best of 5 against a pro though.

 

[Kenshin]

Boxing's much tougher physically than tennis.

I used to run 5-10 km almost every morning in my teenage years. I found playing tennis easier. Never played a best of 5 against a pro though.

I think boxing is mentally and physically toughter sports than tennis. But that dosn't mean tennis is a easy sports to play. These guys (Pros) are unreal. They have to play many hours under extreme conditions.

 

[insideguy]

I don't think Michael Jordan is a real good example about the difficulty of baseball. That someone with no real background in it could even pass for a low level professional undercuts the difficulty of the sport. In truth, having seen him play baseball here in person, he did not belong on the field. Very awkward movement and a complete lack of instincts, consistent with someone who was not an experienced player.

While that was mostly a PR stunt and Jordan would not have even been a draft level prospect, could you imagine him saying "I want to try pro tennis" with a similar background? He could practice for years and probably not even get to a high level junior skill level.

Jordan had a backround in baseball. He played in high school and was a very sought after prospect. Baseball is very difficult. So much so that very few guys under 20 play at the major league level and most get to majors around 23 years old after a long period in the minors. If you have ever tried to play the damn sport you would know how hard it is. You have to be able to do multiple things very well. Again Jordan didnt have any backround in tennis. He had a backround in baseball .

 

[ednegroni]

You didn't really qualify your statement. If you said maintaining a 300+ batting average in the pros --yes this is very hard but just hitting a fast curve, still hard but not close to the top end challenges in sports.

Is it easier to hit a pitch for the first time or hit a forehand?

Getting better isn't the problem because it just requires time, same as building up your cardiovascular resistance for running long distances or sprinting short.

In any case, the comparison is made because in tennis you have to "hit a pitch" with a bigger "bat" and doing it while chasing the ball. That requires physical ability and more importantly mental discipline.

 

[insideguy]

Is it easier to hit a pitch for the first time or hit a forehand?

Getting better isn't the problem because it just requires time, same as building up your cardiovascular resistance for running long distances or sprinting short.

In any case, the comparison is made because in tennis you have to "hit a pitch" with a bigger "bat" and doing it while chasing the ball. That requires physical ability and more importantly mental discipline.

It is so much easier to hit a forehand than a pitch it isnt even funny. If you lined up against nadal or fed and he hit to your foredhand side you could make contact. I will state if you go up against a guy throwing you a 92 mph slider or a 100 mph fastball or a 95 mph split finger you will never freaking hit it. Literally all day swing and miss.

 

[Backspin1183]

I think boxing is mentally and physically toughter sports than tennis. But that dosn't mean tennis is a easy sports to play. These guys (Pros) are unreal. They have to play many hours under extreme conditions.

Agree. Guys like Federer, Nadal and Djokovic really raised the level in pro tennis.
People forget how tough Roger was to beat in a best of 5 match, not just because of his incredible skills but also because he was very fit and faster than most tennis players.

 

[ednegroni]

It is so much easier to hit a forehand than a pitch it isnt even funny. If you lined up against nadal or fed and he hit to your foredhand side you could make contact. I will state if you go up against a guy throwing you a 92 mph slider or a 100 mph fastball or a 95 mph split finger you will never freaking hit it. Literally all day swing and miss.

And that's just one pitcher. Facing multiple pitchers during a stretch can make it that much more difficult.

 

[SublimeTennis]

The discussion about the most difficult sport has pretty interesting and I learned more about some sports than I never knew before. It's obvious ESPN's list was from an entirely American viewpoint but it did open up the way to some interesting ideas.
But what about the sport with the best athlete? Some sports may be more difficult than tennis but does any other sport require more from its top players than tennis does? You watch a five-hour Djokovic-Nadal match and wonder how in the world they can do that at that level for that long. It's simply incredibly. Any other sports out there that require the full package of an athlete like tennis does? some may be close but I would pit tennis up against any of them.

Sport with the Best Athletes

Boxing is like playing a five setter with someone hitting you in the head and body. I have done both to some high level.

 

[ctoth666]

Tennis does not have the best athletes. Tennis is much more about other things than true raw athleticism. There are sports that are mostly a measure of just how athletic you are, but tennis is different. Tennis doesn't have the most disciplined athletes either. It's somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. I look at it this way: what are the demands that competing at the highest level of the sport places on its athletes? I think tennis demands that its athletes manage their emotions, problem solve, and maintain their focus in a very high percentile of athletes.

And if you look at the pros, they have a very unique skill set that allows them to play at such a high level. I don't know what that is, but I can't just take Roger Federer and say: "here's what you would need to do to do what he's doing." I don't know, and I don't think anyone can really replicate that.

 

[furryballs]

In tennis 4-5 hours will have about 45 min breaks in a match. You serve, hit a forehand winner. You get a towel to wipe your face, take about 20-30 seconds between points. Then there's a change over.
I love tennis and like Rafa Nadal but I'm not sure he can compete against a friend of mine who ran a 42.5 km marathon the other day.

I've played tennis, football, rugby, cricket, and I found rugby and football more physical than tennis.

The total time of active play (1st serve struck to point decided) was in the order of 1 hour and 13 minutes in a match that lasted just over 4 hours and 48 minutes...this is for the 2008 Wimbledon final which was played on grass and therefore less actual playing time than clay or hard courts.but it does give an idea of how long the players are actually "playing".

 

[LaneMyer]

I can make contact if you give me a few days of hitting again but give me a few years and I'll still never run a
4 minute mile.

I'm sure you've spent a great deal of time facing dudes throwing 95+ MPH fastballs and 5-6 zone plane breaking balls in your little league days. I'll give you 6 months to hit the batting cages or view Tom Emanski videos or whatever you need to do to get ready, and bring in Max Scherzer or Strasburg and will give you 1000:1 odds on 500 pitches that you aren't putting anything between the chalk-lines. You truly have no idea the disorientation of seeing 100 MPH that close to your body from 60 feet away. I'd be willing to wager you've never stepped in on 75-80 MPH. You'd blowout both of your ACLs on the first Strasburg hook he'd snap off. Ahh I played little league in 1987. Give me few days and a bucket of balls and I'll square up that Craig Kimbrel guy, no sweat.

 

[Vensai]

I like tennis, but this is going to be hard to prove.

 

[Mr.Lob]

Sheeet... basketball and football and baseball have the best athletes. Which is defined as speed, quickness, strength, fine motor skills, and endurance. Tennis fails to meet the strength criteria of the others by far.

 

[jrs]

I play Tennis, Badminton and Table Tennis all at the same competitive intermediate level. I am able to play 3 to 4 hours of tennis at a stretch without taking a break.
Badminton by far is physically most exhausting 20minutes of singles max!
TT - I find more tiring than tennis - I can probably play the same 3 - 4 hours without a break - but I would be much more tired than Tennis. I think it's because of the continuous play as opposed to the Tennis format of scoring.

So in my experience - I would say Badminton, TT and Tennis in that order.

I don't play competitively in any other sport - but sport like Soccer - you have a chance to rest, if you play smart. Basketball and Hockey are quite demanding - however, you can take shifts - so that also gives you chance to recover.

But in Pro Tennis you can get a couple of oncourt massages - which I don't think you can do in any other sports!

 

[Flint]

Iron man triathalon?

 

[SLD76]

Iron man triathalon?

this, or ballet dancers.

hell, F1 drivers have the cardio endurance of olympic marathoners.

They lose on average 10 to 12 percent body weight during a race, namely fluids from sweat so they have to be incredibly fit in order to mentally still be sharp during a long race.

they also have to have strong neck muscles because of the g- forces they endure when cornering and turning.

All in all, unlike Nascar, F1 drivers are some of the fittest guys on the planet.

Tennis isnt crap compared to drivinng in an F1 race.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/21/how-fit-is-an-f1-driver/



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/30864-formula-1-are-f1-drivers-considered-athletes/show_full

From the article: " I think that this is sometimes overlooked when people look at these guys who risk their lives week after week for their passion and our entertainment. It’s overlooked that they are on the whole, probably a lot fitter than your average athlete. This might have been proved this week when Honda driver Jensen Button completed a triathlon in 2 hours, 22 minutes, 43 seconds. This was an Olympic distance event consisting of a 1,500m swim, a 42km bike ride and a 10km run to the finish. To finish in this time considering the Olympic record is 1:48:24, is pretty impressive considering his job is “to sit in a car and drive.” Do you think our alpha male Nick would do so well to get within 35 minutes of an Olympic record over this distance?"


I dont see tennis player remotely coming close to that. Not djoker nor murray and especially not Nadal.
Im exhausted just from reading the bleacher report article. Yeah...I dont want to be an F1 driver, lol.

 

[Flint]

I wish F1 still used V10's rather than the V6 turbos they will have this year.

 

[HRB]

I love tennis...that being said there is a reason you can play tennis for 4 hours even at the highest levels....the periods of full on exertion are still relatively short.

You won't ever see high level basketball or soccer go on for 4 hours...reason being..every player would drop from exhaustion...the physical demands are way too high.

You want an athlete who is the most balanced in strength, speed, endurance, and amazing agility...simple...NBA level basketball...show me another sport where the players commonly can lift twice their body weight, jump through the roof, sprint and stop and turn on a dime in all directions, all while having the amazing ability to dribble and pass a ball in and out and everywhere...and carry a body composition of less than 13 percent body fat on average...there isn't one. I put MMA fighters right up there as well, and I hate that sport.

The point is Tennis has amazing athletes, and it is my favorite sport, but I don't diminish this fact by pointing out other athletes who are more athletic!

 

[heninfan99]

Tim Duncan picked up basketball at 16 yrs old and became 4x Champion, 3x finals MVP. After 4 years of play he became Rookie of the Year. Four years in tennis and you're still a schlub. So basketball has great athletes but the skills aren't as difficult especially if you look at a pure rebounder like a Rodman.

Then you have the aspect of Allen Houston riding the bench for years and making millions --this would never happen in tennis. All he had was a jump shot, really. Imagine Allen Houston playing tournaments to earn his lively-hood week in and week out? He would quit after a week, I assure you.

If you think brainless jocks can exel in baseball you dont know anything about baseball. And really neither do you knhttp://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=8124825ow anything about basketball. But baseball in paticular is a skill set that just takes so much skill that the greatest basketball player in history (Jordan) could not even make it out of double a.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

The best? Let's look at the rest: Google "John Wall 2014 Slam Dunk."

Berdych? Isner? ...

 

[heninfan99]

Hitting a forehand is just one aspect of tennis and you're doing it on the run so it's not really comparable to standing in the box and then sitting in the shade of a dugout for much of the game.

Is it easier to hit a pitch for the first time or hit a forehand?

Getting better isn't the problem because it just requires time, same as building up your cardiovascular resistance for running long distances or sprinting short.

In any case, the comparison is made because in tennis you have to "hit a pitch" with a bigger "bat" and doing it while chasing the ball. That requires physical ability and more importantly mental discipline.

 

[SLD76]

I love tennis...that being said there is a reason you can play tennis for 4 hours even at the highest levels....the periods of full on exertion are still relatively short.

You won't ever see high level basketball or soccer go on for 4 hours...reason being..every player would drop from exhaustion...the physical demands are way too high.

You want an athlete who is the most balanced in strength, speed, endurance, and amazing agility...simple...NBA level basketball...show me another sport where the players commonly can lift twice their body weight, jump through the roof, sprint and stop and turn on a dime in all directions, all while having the amazing ability to dribble and pass a ball in and out and everywhere...and carry a body composition of less than 13 percent body fat on average...there isn't one. I put MMA fighters right up there as well, and I hate that sport.

The point is Tennis has amazing athletes, and it is my favorite sport, but I don't diminish this fact by pointing out other athletes who are more athletic!

you almost had a point...til you remember that fat Shaq and fat Charles Barkley were top players despite being overweight. I believe there is a guy on the knicks as well who basically ate his way off the team. Redmond?

Point being that no, NBA does not require the best fitness to be played on the highest level.

I stand by my F1 assertion.

 

[Wynter]

You can't beat the mental challenge of being a goalkeeper, but whether the mental stress outweighs the physical aspect I can't comment.

Sure a tennis player could run for longer but the pressure isn't the same in terms of mentality.

Like if every point you missed could be Match Point, that's the stress Goalkeepers go through whilst trying to organize the team in front of them.

 

[chrischris]

Best athletes are Crosscountry Skiers.
their pulse rates and their lung capacities and muscle power is the best of all athletes.

Period.

 

[heninfan99]

This thread started to go into a "most skilled" direction rather than athletes. Basketball is so varied. My favorite athlete, Allen Iverson, excelled at both football and basketball. Incredible speed, incredible vertical leap, incredible balance, incredible anticipation, incredible hands and incredible toughness.

However there are basketball players that can't run quickly or jump high --some are more skills based, specialists. Iverson, as we all know, wasn't big on practice and there's no way to become great at tennis without a lot of repetition. Developing the skills in tennis is like being a classical music student, playing scales thousands of times.

 

[Kirijax]

One of the biggest things about tennis is that you are on your own. There is no coach on the sidelines to fix a problem in your stroke or point out an opponent's weakness. A lot of these sports being mentioned don't even come close to the mental capacity required to be a top tennis player.

Best Athlete

 

[heninfan99]

Good point!
gpx10

One of the biggest things about tennis is that you are on your own. There is no coach on the sidelines to fix a problem in your stroke or point out an opponent's weakness. A lot of these sports being mentioned don't even come close to the mental capacity required to be a top tennis player.

Best Athlete

 

[Chanwan]

Djokovic and Nadal only play tennis for about half the match time.

There are a lot more demanding sports, physically.

Half? It's more like 20 percent. Saw the exact time at one point, but can't quite remember.

 

[Chanwan]

In tennis 4-5 hours will have about 45 min breaks in a match. You serve, hit a forehand winner. You get a towel to wipe your face, take about 20-30 seconds between points. Then there's a change over.
I love tennis and like Rafa Nadal but I'm not sure he can compete against a friend of mine who ran a 42.5 km marathon the other day.

I've played tennis, football, rugby, cricket, and I found rugby and football more physical than tennis.

Tennis is not half as physical as many other sports. I've tried a lot too (and will be running a marathon soon) and while tennis certainly can take a lot out of you, there are def. other sports that are tougher on the body. But the mental aspect, having to come up with the goods point after point after point and each game counting, is tougher than most sports.

And I seriously doubt that more than 20-30 % of a normal tennis match is actual match-play. Remember - an ace or a return error is less than a second or around a second of active play. And if the server is fast, there will still be a 10-15 seconds break after that. A 20 second point is considered fairly long. 15 seconds between serves is little. And then you have all those 8-10 seconds between the 1st and 2nd serve not to speak of the actual changeovers etc.

 

[Chanwan]

The total time of active play (1st serve struck to point decided) was in the order of 1 hour and 13 minutes in a match that lasted just over 4 hours and 48 minutes...this is for the 2008 Wimbledon final which was played on grass and therefore less actual playing time than clay or hard courts.but it does give an idea of how long the players are actually "playing".

Thanks for this, it corresponds with what I said above - so about 25 % of actual play on grass. But the grass effect mitigated and probably outdone by one of the players taking pretty long between points.

 

[Chanwan]

Sheeet... basketball and football and baseball have the best athletes. Which is defined as speed, quickness, strength, fine motor skills, and endurance. Tennis fails to meet the strength criteria of the others by far.

I can perfectly understand why you people go on about how hard it is to actually hit the ball well in baseball. But beyond that single skill, which requires great hand eye coordination, quickness etc., what's required in baseball in terms of purely athletic ability? I can't for the life of me see what makes it a top sport in how much it requires from it's players. It's the American version of cricket.

 

[clayqueen]

You could argue for boxing in terms of what the players have to go through. Really any 1 on 1 sport demands more from the players (except golf of course)

Boxing??? How long does a bout last? Some are as short as under a minute and they get to rest every 3 mins or so.

 

[Chanwan]

Best athletes are Crosscountry Skiers.
their pulse rates and their lung capacities and muscle power is the best of all athletes.

Period.

It doesn't get much tougher than Ironman in terms of pure indurance combined with significant strength. But even Iron man athletes suck (relatively speaking) at many other sports, including short distance running.
Reason being, they are endurance athletes and only that (with some strength). Often, their motorik isn't that developed compared to athletes who need to do more precise movements with their body - such as anyone who does anything with a ball or gymnasts or track and field athletes in the technical disciplines.

I would imagine the same goes for crossskiers - they've got the best pulse, heart and lung capacities, but they come in very short at other skills.

Give me a decathlete - they've proven their skill over very different disciplines (shot put is further away from pole vault or 110 hurdles for that matter than badminton is from tennis I would say, having tried all of them), they are strong, fast (they can outsprint more or less everyone in the NFL and def. in pro tennis), they have some endurance (it's not that easy to run 1500 meters in 4.15-30 after completing 9 other disciplines in two days) and they, again, excel, in very different disciplines at the top level.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

It is so much easier to hit a forehand than a pitch it isnt even funny. If you lined up against nadal or fed and he hit to your foredhand side you could make contact. I will state if you go up against a guy throwing you a 92 mph slider or a 100 mph fastball or a 95 mph split finger you will never freaking hit it. Literally all day swing and miss.

The forehand to forehand example is pretty poor. Why not compare hitting a pitch to returning a serve? Murray isn't even the best server on tour, but he posted a video of his friend or trainer (a recreational tennis player) trying to return Murray's serve. The guy couldn't even react to Murray's shots. After like 10 aces, the guy managed to hit a lucky dink over the net.

And Roddick was at an exhibition event where they called a fan out to try to return his serve. Roddick was hitting clean aces without even using his leg drive.