The 4 players who would transcend any era

Blocker

Professional
These are the four players who would dominate in any era. Note, this is not a tier 1 or GOAT discussion. It's as the title of this thread says, the players who would transcend any era. The following list is in alphabetical era.

Borg

To win the channel slam on several occasions, 3 times I believe, when the courts at W and the FO played as differently as they could get, says it all really. A phenomenal achievement. This player would play from the back to win the FO and then 4 weeks later serve and volley his way to the W trophy. That is just amazing if you think about it. Number 1 in the world, 11 slams by the time he was 26. This player would dominate in any era.

Federer

300 plus weeks at number 1, 5 times year ending number 1, a beast on fast courts, extremely very handy on slow courts, monster forehand, equal record holder at two slams, 18 slams to his name all up. This player would dominate in any era.

Laver

Admittedly I never saw him play when he played, but when you have an event named after you, the venue of a slam named after you and probably a whole heap of other things named after you, have won the grand slam twice, as an amateur and as a pro, was denied 6 or 7 years worth of slams, you'd have to say this player would dominate in any era.

Sampras

200 plus weeks at number 1, 6 year ending number 1s, equal record holder at two slams, 14 slams to his name all up, a monster forehand, the GOAT overhead smash, the GOAT service package, and could mix it from the back of the court as well (at least against Agassi). Grew up with a double handed back hand before switching to the single hander so he could dominate Wimbledon, demonstrates he would adjust to dominate this era too, probably a couple less Wimbledons with Fed around (they would steal Ws from each other) but more of the other slams, Including the FO (think to yourself a double back hander Sampras). This player would dominate in any era.

The notable omissions.

Nadal.

Nadal's record at the FO makes his accomplishments look better than they really are. Take away the FO and he has a mere 5 slams to his name. He has barely done alright at 2 slams and under achieved at one other. And don't get me started on the WTF. His game on fast indoor is for the dogs. Probably the biggest benefactor of the slowing down of the courts and the poly strings too. The extra grip these strings gives and the bigger sweet spot has helped his spin immensely. Put a wooden racquet in his hand against Borg and Borg would do a job on him. His extra fitness and stamina is a plus, but that's not gonna help him much when he's trying to retrieve bullet first and second serves from Sampras on fast indoor and fast grass and chasing volleys from Sampras' racquet from 5 feet behind the baseline. He would still dominate the FO in say the 90s but not as much as he has in his era because playing guys like Brug, Courier, Muster, Kafelnikov and so on and so on, one round after the other, would take its toll on him. This player ain't dominating in any era other than his own.

Djokovic

He once said his dream as a kid was to win Wimbledon. Well he ain't fulfilling his dream in any preceding era. Federer and Sampras would make mince meat out of him at the world's most prestigious event in 90s conditions. Nor would he against peak Borg, Sampras and Federer in today's conditions. And to be quite frank, he's a bit of a choker. He too is a benefactor of the slowing of the courts. And when his game is off, boy is it off. As Sampras once said, when Nadal plays badly, he's got nothing but when Sampras plays badly, he still has his serve to fall back on. The same applies to Djokovic. This player ain't dominating in any era other than his own.

There's pretty much no argument in this thread. It's objective, unbiased and methodical. No fanboyism here.

Have a nice day. Thank you. That is all.
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
What about Agassi? The guy won all four slams on polarised surfaces. He could literally play in any era and adapt. Much more than Laver imo. Possibly Sampras and Federer too.

The OP is really about which players would dominate in any era. I agree that Agassi was pretty versatile -- more adaptable than might have been expected, given his game -- but he didn't even dominate his own era.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Just about, what do u think?

Well, he's halfway between Laver and Federer in height. We haven't been seeing any players shorter than six foot dominating. Agassi did well but didn't dominate his era. Why should Borg do so much better than Laver today?

I think all the GOATy people have chances to do very well in at least most eras... almost any era.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Lendl didn't emphatically dominate his own era. I don't automatically think he'd be more likely than Nadal or Djokovic to win Wimbledon in this era either. Those guys are better athletes.
 
D

Deleted member 733170

Guest
Well, he's halfway between Laver and Federer in height. We haven't been seeing any players shorter than six foot dominating. Agassi did well but didn't dominate his era. Why should Borg do so much better than Laver today?

I think all the GOATy people have chances to do very well in at least most eras... almost any era.

There would be too much pressure on Laver and his service games
 

Elektra

Professional
Djokovic would dominate any era, he has the most complete game of any of the others and his game breaks down other game cause he returns so well. Federer has the all around game, but how would he do if he did not have scrubs during his era. Federer has holes in his game that is easy to break down.
 

DreddyTennis45

Hall of Fame
Djokovic would dominate any era

No he would not. Polarised conditions of the 90's in particular would mean he would not even have a sniff at winning Wimbledon or USO. RG? Perhaps he might win a couple without Nadal in the way but don't forget the depth of clay-courters in the 90's as well as Borg in the 80's.

They sped up the court surface just a bit at this years AO and he went out in the 2nd round, do you honestly think he can dominate lightning fast courts?
 
Last edited:

DreddyTennis45

Hall of Fame
The OP is really about which players would dominate in any era. I agree that Agassi was pretty versatile -- more adaptable than might have been expected, given his game -- but he didn't even dominate his own era.

Didn't see that bit
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Sampras, Nadal and Djokovic no way - they were the products of their respective eras. Sampras would've never won 14 Slams today and Nadal/Djokovic would've never won so much in the 80s/90s.

Federer, Borg, Laver, Agassi. I think Agassi would've done great things if he played today.
 
Last edited:

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Borg was 5'11 and Laver 5'8, so yeah in the current era I think Laver would struggle on serve way more than Borg.

Why are you specifying the serve and/or the service game, though? It implies that Laver had a worse serve than Borg. They both had good serves. Stood next to each other, Laver looks 5'9 or maybe Borg is more like 5'10. I don't know.

@NatF @pc1 @Limpinhitter

Was Borg's serve substantially better than Laver's? I honestly don't know.
 

wangs78

Legend
These are the four players who would dominate in any era...

I'm not convinced that Laver and Borg would have the power to dominate the modern era. They clearly have all the other skills. So I would say just Fed and Sampras really.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Why are you specifying the serve and/or the service game, though? It implies that Laver had a worse serve than Borg. They both had good serves. Stood next to each other, Laver looks 5'9 or maybe Borg is more like 5'10. I don't know.

@NatF @pc1 @Limpinhitter

Was Borg's serve substantially better than Laver's? I honestly don't know.

Both are being short changed (pardon the pun) in this discussion really. Both were gifted athletes, far more so than anyone else in that height bracket today and both served fairly big in their eras - which did include plenty of 6 foot plus guys. Laver was in fact renowned for his power. He would obviously suffer with getting the angles but I expect his serve would be good enough for him to enjoy great success. Also important to remember that Laver was a lefty which would make his serve trickier.

As far as pure serving goes, though I haven't seen much of peak Laver bar some matches in 69-70, I would expect Borg to have the superior serve. I think he probably double faulted less atleast though I can't remember where I got that impression from.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
I got these match stats some years ago.


Borg d. Laver 6-3, 7-5, on October 11, 1976, on clay at Hilton Head.

Borg was 20, Laver 38.


By my count:

Borg made 12 clean winners: 5 FH, 5 BH, 1 FHV, 1 BHV.

Laver made 20 clean winners: 7 FH, 2 BH, 7 FHV, 2 BHV, 2 overheads.


Apart from double-faults, Borg made 11 unforced and 18 forced errors. (These errors included 5 on the service return; I didn't credit Laver with a service winner on any of these). He made 5 unforced backhand errors, 5 on the forehand.

Apart from double-faults, Laver made 40 unforced and 13 forced errors. (These errors included 9 on the service return; I credited Borg with service winners on 3 of these). He made 22 unforced backhand errors, 12 on the forehand.


Borg had 0 aces and 1 double.
Laver had 5 aces and
2 doubles.



Borg served at 55%, making 32 of 58 first serves.
Laver served at 61%, making 39 of 64 first serves.


Borg won 36 of 58 points on serve, Laver 33 of 64.

Borg won 67 points overall, Laver 55.



Borg won 22 of 32 points on first serve (69%) and 14 of 26 on second (54%).

Laver won 22 of 39 points on first serve (56%) and 11 of 25 on second (44%).


Finally, Borg won 5 of 9 break points, Laver 2 of 4.

Borg got his first serve into play on all 4 break points that he faced, Laver on 6 of 9.


ABC presented stats for the first set. According to them, Laver had 1 ace and 2 doubles, Borg 0 and 0. Borg was serving at 54% (with 14 of 26 first serves), Laver at 64% (with 16 of 25). Borg had 3 passing shots, Laver none. Borg had 8 groundstroke errors (4 off each wing), Laver 24 (with 16 off his backhand side).

Both are being short changed (pardon the pun) in this discussion really. Both were gifted athletes, far more so than anyone else in that height bracket today and both served fairly big in their eras - which did include plenty of 6 foot plus guys. Laver was in fact renowned for his power. He would obviously suffer with getting the angles but I expect his serve would be good enough for him to enjoy great success. Also important to remember that Laver was a lefty which would make his serve trickier.

As far as pure serving goes, though I haven't seen much of peak Laver bar some matches in 69-70, I would expect Borg to have the superior serve. I think he probably double faulted less atleast though I can't remember where I got that impression from.

That MUST be why. Just kiddin'.
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
Good list, the only guy that doesn't fit is Sampras. Agassi would be a better choice since he won a CGS on all surfaces.
Sampras would have dominated pro tennis any time from the dawn of the game, up till 2000. The only era Agassi has a case for is the current one. Attacking, all court tennis with a strong emphasis on the serve, and on net play has almost always been the order of the day.

Agassi's baseline, take-it-on-the-rise game was pretty much the only way for a baseliner to be relevant in the graphite racquet and polarized surface era, but it wasn't even strong enough to dominate then. Sampras's plan of saying, "screw clay, it brings nothing to the table," was far smarter, and would have been for 90%+ of the history of the game. Agassi's game only would have been worse when almost every important match was played on grass against great attackers.

Federer may be the only one with a game that would truly dominate in any era, but in terms of who else has a game that would dominate during the vast majority of them? Pete is the clear #2.

Borg is probably #3, though his game wouldn't have translated all that well to the polarized courts and graphite era that immediately followed his period of dominance. He'd have been in much the same boat as Lendl, who probably deserves consideration as #4.
 

Tennisanity

Legend
Sampras would have dominated pro tennis any time from the dawn of the game, up till 2000. The only era Agassi has a case for is the current one. Attacking, all court tennis with a strong emphasis on the serve, and on net play has almost always been the order of the day.

Agassi's baseline, take-it-on-the-rise game was pretty much the only way for a baseliner to be relevant in the graphite racquet and polarized surface era, but it wasn't even strong enough to dominate then. Sampras's plan of saying, "screw clay, it brings nothing to the table," was far smarter, and would have been for 90%+ of the history of the game. Agassi's game only would have been worse when almost every important match was played on grass against great attackers.

Federer may be the only one with a game that would truly dominate in any era, but in terms of who else has a game that would dominate during the vast majority of them? Pete is the clear #2.

Borg is probably #3, though his game wouldn't have translated all that well to the polarized courts and graphite era that immediately followed his period of dominance. He'd have been in much the same boat as Lendl, who probably deserves consideration as #4.

I disagree. Pete was useless on clay, therefore he cannot be considered as dominating any era.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Laver's serve was definitely worse than Borg's???
Imo Laver's serve was probably better than Nadal's with perhaps the exception during the 2010 US Open. Laver had an excellent kick serve and a nice slice serve in the ad court.

Borg had one of the best serves in tennis. It was a great weapon. I believe in the 1981 U.S. Open semifinal they mentioned that Borg in that semi final served the second fastest serve of the tournament! Borg was known for hitting big serves at crucial moments.
 
Z

Zara

Guest
Sampras would have dominated pro tennis any time from the dawn of the game, up till 2000. The only era Agassi has a case for is the current one. Attacking, all court tennis with a strong emphasis on the serve, and on net play has almost always been the order of the day.

Agassi's baseline, take-it-on-the-rise game was pretty much the only way for a baseliner to be relevant in the graphite racquet and polarized surface era, but it wasn't even strong enough to dominate then. Sampras's plan of saying, "screw clay, it brings nothing to the table," was far smarter, and would have been for 90%+ of the history of the game. Agassi's game only would have been worse when almost every important match was played on grass against great attackers.

Federer may be the only one with a game that would truly dominate in any era, but in terms of who else has a game that would dominate during the vast majority of them? Pete is the clear #2.

Borg is probably #3, though his game wouldn't have translated all that well to the polarized courts and graphite era that immediately followed his period of dominance. He'd have been in much the same boat as Lendl, who probably deserves consideration as #4.

I am not so sure if he would have won the FO in the 90s or in Borg's era.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Lol.. Its other way around. Federer was winning because there were no Djokovic and Nadal. He never declined. He still the same.

Nope. Peak Federer would be owning Djokodal in any tournament except for Nadal on clay. Both would likely have 0 Wimbledon or USO titles. They got lucky Fed is 5 years older.

Fed heavily declined in 08. He's still relevant thanks to his brilliant serve and offensive tactics.

I am not so sure if he would have won the FO in the 90s or in Borg's era.

Nah Fed would've won 5-6 FOs in the 90s. He's much better than any of those clay courters and was only stopped by Nadal.

His spread would be something like 7 AO, 5 RG, 9 Wimbledons, 7 USO if you directly swapped him and Pete.
 
Z

Zara

Guest
Nah Fed would've won 5-6 FOs in the 90s. He's much better than any of those clay courters and was only stopped by Nadal.

His spread would be something like 7 AO, 5 RG, 9 Wimbledons, 7 USO if you directly swapped him and Pete.

Let's not project things.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Let's not project things.

But he is. For peak level he's top 5 clay courters ever. Top 10 ever achievements wise.

He'd absolutely sweep everything in the weak 90s. He'd destroy the likes of Brugera and Courier lol.

You're forgetting the only reason post prime old Fed didn't sweep 4 AO, 2 RG, 2 Wimbledons and 3 USO was thanks to having to play two prime ATGs both 5 years younger than him, fitter than him and on slow courts more suited to grinders.
 
Z

Zara

Guest
But he is. For peak level he's top 5 clay courters ever. Top 10 ever achievements wise.

He'd absolutely sweep everything in the weak 90s. He'd destroy the likes of Brugera and Courier lol.

You're forgetting the only reason post prime old Fed didn't sweep 4 AO, 2 RG, 2 Wimbledons and 3 USO was thanks to having to play two prime ATGs both 5 years younger than him, fitter than him and on slow courts more suited to grinders.

I didn't see Federer wining RG against a baby Nadal. And Djokovic's prime seems to be subjective with some Federer fans who seem to use it based on the agenda that's going on behind the scene at that time.

And I will let you believe that Federer would absolutely wipe the floors with Bruguerea, Courier, Muster, Kuerten, Moya, Agassi etc. in the 90s.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
I didn't see Federer wining RG against a baby Nadal. And Djokovic's prime seems to be subjective with some Federer fans who seem to use it based on the agenda that's going on behind the scene at that time.

And I will let you believe that Federer would absolutely wipe the floors with Bruguerea, Courier, Muster, Kuerten, Moya, Agassi etc. in the 90s.

No such thing as 'baby' Nadal. He hit his prime in 05 and peaked on clay from 05-09. Djokovic's prime started in 07 his overall peak in 2011-2016.

Yeah Fed would own those guys. Peak Nadal was 10x better and peak Fed ran him close a couple of times on clay with bad match up disadvantage.

Agassi wasn't a threat for half the decade lol.
 
Z

Zara

Guest
No such thing as 'baby' Nadal. He hit his prime in 05 and peaked on clay from 05-09. Djokovic's prime started in 07 his overall peak in 2011-2016.

Yeah Fed would own those guys. Peak Nadal was 10x better and peak Fed ran him close a couple of times on clay with bad match up disadvantage.

Agassi wasn't a threat for half the decade lol.

So a 19 year old is not baby Nadal. Okay.

So what kept Federer winning RG at age 22/23 in 2003 and 2004? I'll take the liberty to answer that on your behalf - I guess while he wasn't a baby Federer based your logic, he had yet to hit his prime on clay while he hit it everywhere else. And when that argument fails, it would have to be then that clay is or was his least favourite surface, but still a much better surface compared to all the clay players who specialized on clay in the 90s and he would have most definitely wiped the floor with them.

Agassi wasn't a threat in the early and later part of the 90s on clay? Okay.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
So a 19 year old is not baby Nadal. Okay.

So what kept Federer winning RG at age 22/23 in 2003 and 2004? I'll take the liberty to answer that on your behalf - I guess while he wasn't a baby Federer based your logic, he had yet to hit his prime on clay while he hit it everywhere else. And when that argument fails, it would have to be then that clay is or was his least favourite surface, but still a much better surface compared to all the clay players who specialized on clay in the 90s and he would have most definitely wiped the floor with them.

Agassi wasn't a threat in the early and later part of the 90s on clay? Okay.

Not a baby nope. Grand slam winner, 2 x HC masters winner, 11 titles in one year player. Prime and top player.
Federer's clay prime was a bit later and started in 05. He hadn't yet figured out how to consistently win on the surface despite dominating grass and hard courts. 05-09 Clayerer would wipe the floor with 04 Kuerten or 03 Mantilla.
Similar to how Nadal took 1 year to enter his grass prime (06) and has very rarely but inconsistently peaked on HCs (05 Madrid/Rogers cup) 07 IW, 08 Olympics, 09 AO, 10 USO etc.
 

Blocker

Professional
What about Agassi? The guy won all four slams on polarised surfaces. He could literally play in any era and adapt. Much more than Laver imo. Possibly Sampras and Federer too.

Agassi could not dominate his own era. He managed to accumulate 8 slams over virtually 2 eras. But he would not outright dominate one era.
 
Z

Zara

Guest
Not a baby nope. Grand slam winner, 2 x HC masters winner, 11 titles in one year player. Prime and top player.
Federer's clay prime was a bit later and started in 05. He hadn't yet figured out how to consistently win on the surface despite dominating grass and hard courts. 05-09 Clayerer would wipe the floor with 04 Kuerten or 03 Mantilla.
Similar to how Nadal took 1 year to enter his grass prime (06) and has very rarely but inconsistently peaked on HCs (05 Madrid/Rogers cup) 07 IW, 08 Olympics, 09 AO, 10 USO etc.

That was so predictable.
 
Z

Zara

Guest
I would throw Djokovic in there. I believe he has the ability to adjust any era.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
I'm not convinced that Laver and Borg would have the power to dominate the modern era. They clearly have all the other skills. So I would say just Fed and Sampras really.

I am. Laver was the biggest hitter in the history of tennis with a wood racquet. I have no doubt that he would be one of the biggest hitters in any era with a modern frame. Borg was not strictly a power player. He could rip the most blistering passing shots I've ever seen, and he hit a very heavy ball, with the highest net clearance I've ever seen, and wore his opponents down. In my view, both Borg and Laver would be competing for major titles today.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Federer has the all around game, but how would he do if he did not have scrubs during his era.

Beyond hilarious. The last 5 slam finals Roger contested (all at the age of 31, 33, 34 and 35) were against:

Murray (a #1 player currently)
Djoker (#1 when he contested all slam matches against Fed since 2012 and an ATG)
Nadal (ATG with 14 majors whom Roger just beat at age 35 at the AO).

Yup... those guys are all "scrubs." Oh-- and if you want to claim Fed's actual real-age rivals like Roddick and Hewitt were "scrubs," they both were #1 players as well.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Why are you specifying the serve and/or the service game, though? It implies that Laver had a worse serve than Borg. They both had good serves. Stood next to each other, Laver looks 5'9 or maybe Borg is more like 5'10. I don't know.

@NatF @pc1 @Limpinhitter

Was Borg's serve substantially better than Laver's? I honestly don't know.

In my view, they both had great serves. But, for whatever reason, Borg didn't go for his serve the way Laver did, especially second serve. Borg seemed to have an attitude that he would win a battle of attrition and didn't rely so much on his serve, although I think he could have. Laver thought of every one of his shots as major weapons with which he could hit winners whenever he wanted. If you notice, watching Laver matches online, he almost always out aces his opponent, even big servers like Ashe, Newcombe, Roche.

Laver's serve was definitely worse than Borg's???

PS: In my view, Laver's advantage of having a huge lefty kick and slice made his serve more effective than Borgs overall.
 
Last edited:

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
There would be too much pressure on Laver and his service games

Laver had a great serve. Very powerful, and considering his huge lefty kick and slice, probably the best under 6' serve ever. None less than Pancho Gonzalez (who had an ATG serve, and, about 60 matches against Laver), praises Laver's serve.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
That was so predictable.

One year he was losing to washed up Kuerten next year not dropping a set on the way to losing in 4 tight sets to clay GOAT.

In 2004 he was dominating hard courts and grass but hadn't yet figured out his clay game.

It's the truth so I don't care whether it's predictable or not.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
But he is. For peak level he's top 5 clay courters ever. Top 10 ever achievements wise.

He'd absolutely sweep everything in the weak 90s. He'd destroy the likes of Brugera and Courier lol.

You're forgetting the only reason post prime old Fed didn't sweep 4 AO, 2 RG, 2 Wimbledons and 3 USO was thanks to having to play two prime ATGs both 5 years younger than him, fitter than him and on slow courts more suited to grinders.

In my view, Laver, Borg, Vilas, Lendl, Wilander, Kuerten, Nadal and Djokovic, and probably a few more, were greater clay court players than Federer.
 
Top