RS
Bionic Poster
Med USO 21 or Tpas RG 21 who you taking by level?
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The Arrogance of Alcaraz is and will be his undoing
- Thread starter messiahrobins
- Start date
djokovic the conqueror
Professional
Alcaraz was just the new kid on the block and the hype from the media made him arrogant enough to believe he's on the same level as Djokovic. Now that Zverev humbled him and exposed how overrated he is, it will only get worse from here. As more tennis players figure out Alcaraz's style of tennis, he will struggle to win big tournaments let alone slams. He will become Ruud 2.0 winning the occasional 250 but nothing more.
That’s way too much underestimation. He is 20 and has good 15 years of tennis left. I still see 10+ slams
sportsfan1
Legend
Alcaraz hasn't won a title since Wimbledon 2023.
gqnelly
Rookie
The difference with Stan is his backhand down the line. Everyone has a crosscourt rally ball but you cant hurt your opponent if you cant hit a powerful shot down the line from that wing. The tendency in a crosscourt exchange is to anticipate another crosscourt ball, so you can wrong foot your opponent. It is also the shortest geometry for you to hit through the court (but the highest net clearance) which means they don't have a lot of time to get to the other corner. Even if they get there...their response will be neutral at best. It was harder to read Stan's tendencies....Carlos is a bit more predictable.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
As much as I hate to say it the OP has a point. Time and time again Tiny Carl has said he wants to play Joker in the F. It’s starting to come off like he’s looking past the guys he’s playing in front of him. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to play in the F but the thing is you have actually make the F first. This is back to back schlem losses where he was beaten pretty comprehensively. Now the Mad Lad and Zedrot both played well to beat him, but Carl didn’t help himself with how erratic he played.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
He's not there yet. Even the Big 3 didn't think ahead of time when they had each other.
I concur but I'm fairly sure Pheasant is talking about some of our particularly vicious trolls with absolutely no real perspective (some of whom you can find on this very page).
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Just because he beat Tsitsipas doesn't put him in a whole other tier. I'm not talking about how they match-up here.
Again, if he was, AO 2021 and AO 2022 would not have happened.
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The Guru
Legend
If he wasn't AO 2021 and 2022 would not have happened because he would've lost one to Tsitsipas. Also every low level HOF one slam wonder type player has performances as bad or worse than those. Those two just particularly annoy you because of who they came against. Med's now reached his 8th semi (prolly his 6th final too) and is on track to be the first to reach 10 since Murray (Wawrinka only got to 9). He's won 6 masters the WTF and a slam (and two wins over world number 1 at slams) and he didn't fold a masters final to Coric. Medvedev's been a serious threat since he broke out outside of most of 2022 Tsitsipas was only really relevant as a top player in the front half of 2021. Tsitsipas has not earned being taken as seriously as Daniil.
sortof
Semi-Pro
Wrong, that was last years Indian Wells final. Mad Med actually won the Miami title by taking apart none other than the young carrot, who had won his semi against Raz.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Again, I am not talking about how they match-up. Sure, Med is better than Zed and Tsits, both of whom are downright mediocre, thus making Med stand out.
I am talking about overall performances. Can Med choke like those guys? Yes. Can he get wrecked in slam matches like those guys can? Also yes. Who they came against is irrelevant since Tsitsipas went through the same thing against the same players.
Med being a serious threat is pushing it.
The Guru
Legend
Djokovic can choke. Djokovic can get wrecked in slam matches. By that criteria he fits with those guys. Any non arbitrary or ridiculous criteria shows Medvedev having clearly shown himself to be on a different tier than Tsitsipas. If you wanna argue peak Stef as comparable to peak Med fine but Peak Stef was like 5 months whereas Med's been doing it for like 5 years now. Zverev's in between I'm not upset if you wanna say he's on Med's level I think saying that's probably fair.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
All that racquet-shaking and sarcastic nodding and skipping around when he won the 3rd. Then he goes 05 Federer and starts trying to be all flashy instead of buckling in and taking it to Zverev on the level that mattered. He got exactly what he deserved today and he will feel silly af watching the match back for how cocky and assured he got when he won the 3rd.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
When they win as much as Djokovic, they can get a pass.
Again, he is better than Zed and Tsits. But he's still closer to their tier than some higher tier considering that he messes up just as badly as they do. He's still not a guy top player fear.
SpinWizard
Rookie
That's actually really interesting point. Thiem was more or less the same example. He did not win easy points or matches. He always had to be at the peak of his powers, play every point at 120% and sometimes it was so draining physically and mentally that he could not finish the tournament and win it. That's why he lost so many finals (ATP Finals for example).
On the other hand i do believe that Carlos has much more variety and "easy" power than Thiem. He needs to play like he did against Novak during Wimbledon 2023. I don't know why he switched again to his "usual" playstyle and tries to play highlight reel points and finish the rallies as fast as possible. During Wimbledon he developed safer baseline play, with less power but more precision and it worked absolutely brilliant against Novak.
ElChivoEspañol
Hall of Fame
"He should be winning calendar slams with his talent".
lmao no.
lmao no.
sortof
Semi-Pro
Not so sure about this. This attitude really seems to be part of him as person, it´s probably a narcisstic personality disorder. - he can play wonderful tennis in an all jubilant adrenaline rush sucking in the applause. But when asked to do some dry and hard work he fails.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
It seems like Carlos is a showman who wants to entertain the crowd and dominate his opponent in addition to winning. I think when he is the favorite, it seems to exacerbate these tendencies. At Wimbledon Djokovic was favored and Carlos played much more in control.
When he is not playing well or when the opponent is redlining, he needs to learn to tone the offense down and grind to make it a longer match. Instead he often starts going for even more and sprays errors which makes the opponent more confident. I think he needs JCF in the stands to tell him at what level of aggression to play during a match. On his own, he doesn’t seem to be able to figure it out.
He also hasn‘t done well in terms of winning big titles on fast, low-bouncing courts like at the AO and in the Fall indoor season. Maybe it is also a weakness in his game as you have to be patient on these courts where it is harder to break opponents.
When he is not playing well or when the opponent is redlining, he needs to learn to tone the offense down and grind to make it a longer match. Instead he often starts going for even more and sprays errors which makes the opponent more confident. I think he needs JCF in the stands to tell him at what level of aggression to play during a match. On his own, he doesn’t seem to be able to figure it out.
He also hasn‘t done well in terms of winning big titles on fast, low-bouncing courts like at the AO and in the Fall indoor season. Maybe it is also a weakness in his game as you have to be patient on these courts where it is harder to break opponents.
How long will you beat that drum? Till he turns 30 or what?
Shaolin
G.O.A.T.
I haven't hear Carlos say that or anyone else for that matter.
He has never seemed arrogant to me in the least. Very humble and grounded imo.
He did that just the last match. That confidence got a little too into his head against Zverev I suppose.
I even comented a couple of days about how he played the percentages.
He should embrace it more indeed.
The 'once in a generation' player is on a 9 tournament losing streak since W.Oh. My. God! CALM DOWN PEOPLE. He's human and young. Zverev played out this world and he had a bad match. It happens. When he's winning everyone is on his jock and saying he's the next GOAT. When he loses everyone is like he's done..."He should retire"..."He's only gonna be a two slam winner"
It's about time you realised his game does not work on hard.
A little matter of a decade separates 20 and 30.
22-24 is the typical peak age and it won't be much different with Alcaraz too I reckon. If he doesn't mature even then, questions are to be asked.
Phenomenal
Professional
IMO The thing people don't understand is people who criticise him like OP knows that he is capable of beating the likes of Zverev and Medvedev. He lost these matches due to lack of few things. Of course he is young and very impressive and will improve.
As much as I hate to say it the OP has a point. Time and time again Tiny Carl has said he wants to play Joker in the F. It’s starting to come off like he’s looking past the guys he’s playing in front of him. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to play in the F but the thing is you have actually make the F first. This is back to back schlem losses where he was beaten pretty comprehensively. Now the Mad Lad and Zedrot both played well to beat him, but Carl didn’t help himself with how erratic he played.
But still now i think he could have won these 2 slam matches that he lost had he better prepared and stayed mentally better.
Sputnik Bulgorov
Professional
To be fair, Alcaraz kind of did just waltz in and become the next big thing from right under the Tsitsipas-Medvedev-Zverev generation. He's ranked higher and accomplished more than all of them combined before his 21st birthday. Many believe the Alcaraz-Sinner-Rune gen might prevent the Tsitsipas-Medvedev-Zverev gen from ever getting the spotlight. Let's see if either Medvedev or Zverev can win this one for their gen.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
He is not stopping Nole. Nole is already 36.5
The father time will stop nole. You know THIS is the time to make a name by stopping Nole. But Raz isn't making it to him. And maybe even in 1 year when Nole is more weaker a bunch of players can beat him.
AO is a very big blow to Raz right now. Year started badly.
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
Lol.
When it's the other way around the complaint is usually that they lack belief and have a defeatist mindset, are happy just to face the Big 3, etc.
When it's the other way around the complaint is usually that they lack belief and have a defeatist mindset, are happy just to face the Big 3, etc.
heftylefty
Hall of Fame
Do you think Alcaraz is a bust? He been on tour for 4 years, with 12 career titles including two Slams and reached a ranking No.1 I don't need to beat a drum; the kid has proven he's not a journeyman scratching out a career.
Enceladus
Legend
I think you are mistaken. The frozen ranking was the subject of the 2020 season, but Medvedev won the US Open a year later.
No, the ranking has been frozen for a very long time, not only in 2020.
Everything went downhill after that tweet.
messiahrobins
Hall of Fame
Its the smiling during matches and the hollywood shots he tries at the wrong time which bother me as it is a sign of a lack of focus and like i say arrogance really in the sense it shows he doesnt feel threatened by the opponent.
ScentOfDefeat
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, what I'm saying is it's not a done deal or a zero sum game.
And we still have only one king in tennis. Alcaraz is very good, but not "lock-in to beat everyone else at a Slam" good.
In other words, people were quick to jump to the idea that Alcaraz is Djokovic's great rival, but the truth is Alcaraz-Medvedev-Sinner-Zverev are each other's rivals, while Djokovic is above them all.
messiahrobins
Hall of Fame
Smiling in between points when he has done something spectacular. Going for drop shots when they are not on and trying to seem super casual doing it.
messiahrobins
Hall of Fame
Spot on.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Agreed. That’s the time he needs to get serious and go into lockdown. He should not be smiling or hitting Hollywood shots especially when he’s close to defeat. He needs to get more ruthless and business like.
messiahrobins
Hall of Fame
He was still smiling and high fiving the crowd when he lost. I question how badly he wants to win. Zverev wants it too much as Federer once said and i respect that more than alcaraz apparent attitude of entertain first win 2nd. Alcaraz is almost reverting to agassi type attitude on court in agassis punk denim days. I hope he doesnt actually turn out in denim shorts at some point... im assuming denim is still cool?
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
His fans are even worse SMH
mtommer
Hall of Fame
From what I've seen, Carlos can do anything he wants with his backhand. It seems like what you observe has more to do with either a lack of anticipating the opponent or trying to impose a gameplan on an opponent and not always adjusting to the opponent's responses to that.
