The Big 3 - Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic

McEnroeisanartist

Hall of Fame
With Murray's excellent play in the second half of 2008, many tennis fans believe The Big 3 should now be The Big 4 to include him. However, if Grand Slams determine the quality of a player's season than it is obvious that The Big 3 should remain.

Consider: Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic all reached at least three Grand Slam semifinals this year. No other male player even reached two.

Thoughts?
 

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
Tsonga's just one Masters shield removed from Murray's achievements this year, and he missed half the season due to injury. I don't see anyone out there calling it the Big 5, though...

Personally, I think Murray's got a ways to go before he catches up to Djokovic (or Nadal or Federer, but that goes without saying).
 

David L

Hall of Fame
Murray has beaten all the top 3 players, including in Grand Slam events. If you follow the results trend towards the latter part of the season..Murray is the player to beat.

Two Masters shields, and a Grand Slam final season end are a clear indication that Murray is part of the elite group.
You mean like Nalbandian was the player to beat at the end of last year?
 

luckyboy1300

Hall of Fame
the inclusion of murray as a solid no. 4 in the world is a good thing for tennis, so the nadal fans can stop whining on who gets djokovic on the draw. murray can beat the top 3 at any day.
 

bluescreen

Hall of Fame
big 3 will be Rafa Joker and Murray if Fed continue to play like this......


what!? i think djoker is the most susceptible to being removed from the top 3. yeah, he won masters cup, but thats been his only highlight the second half of this year. he doesnt seem to be as consistent as rafa and fed r year round. as for murray, he have to see how he fairs throughout the entire 2009 season before judging him. if anything, i wouldnt be surprised to see him get #3 early in the year since he has no points at the oz open to defend.
 

sunnyIce

Semi-Pro
was it ever the Big 3?

I think it should rightfully be the Big 2. The 2 are big, really really big.

Djoker was/is knocking on the doors. And now so is Murray.
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
You mean like Nalbandian was the player to beat at the end of last year?

Agreed.

Murray has beaten all the top 3 players, including in Grand Slam events. If you follow the results trend towards the latter part of the season..Murray is the player to beat.

Two Masters shields, and a Grand Slam final season end are a clear indication that Murray is part of the elite group.

It's not about whom you've beaten, but what you have won.
 

gj011

Banned
you couldn't knock djokovic out as he had been the no. 3 all the weeks of this year.

And he has almost the same number of race points as Federer this year (2 race points difference = 10 ranking points), so this year it is either the big one (Nadal), or the big 3 (Nadal, Federer, Djokovic). Argument that Federer was more consistent this year is simply not true.

EDIT:
Djokovic is TEN points behind Federer. I'd say that it's a "Big Three"

Didn't see your post :)
 

sunnyIce

Semi-Pro
agreed on points and the 'closeness' this year.

but i think when somebody says a "Big' something, they are referring to the Magnitude and Awe of something or someone. Sheer massiveness of something. For examples, years ago GM, Ford and Chrys used to be called the Big 3 becuase of their mass of qty, variety and market share.

In terms of the sheer extent of their achievements and the 'awe' they create, I would easily look at Rafa and Rog that way.
Can not see djoker that way. not yet anyway. Hope this helps.
 
Murray has beaten all the top 3 players, including in Grand Slam events. If you follow the results trend towards the latter part of the season..Murray is the player to beat.

Two Masters shields, and a Grand Slam final season end are a clear indication that Murray is part of the elite group.

Yeah he is part of the big 3 when he hasnt won jacksh1t that matters. Har har, funny twit you are.
 

rubberduckies

Professional
You mean like Nalbandian was the player to beat at the end of last year?

Nalbandian was an old cat showing glimmers of his brilliance and unfulfilled potential. He has a reputation for inconsistency, and his dominance in late 2007 was never really expected to last because people don't really improve their games at that age. Murray is an up-and-coming player. His results in late 2008 are a better indicator of the type of player he will become in future years.
 

BallzofSkill

Semi-Pro
should only be the big 2 as the rest haven't earned as much. murrah has no slam and djokovic has the aussie open and mc, but that's nothing compared to what fed and nadal have.

it's the big 2.
 

David L

Hall of Fame
Nalbandian was an old cat showing glimmers of his brilliance and unfulfilled potential. He has a reputation for inconsistency, and his dominance in late 2007 was never really expected to last because people don't really improve their games at that age. Murray is an up-and-coming player. His results in late 2008 are a better indicator of the type of player he will become in future years.
You are wrong on a number of counts. Firstly, this board went into a frenzy when Nalbandian beat Federer and Nadal in two consecutive tournaments and ended up winning two Masters Series titles. Many were picking him as one of the huge favourites at the Australian Open and were hoping he would challenge the top 2 over the course of the year. I knew better. Go back and look at the archives around that time. The same happened with Djokovic at the start of the year. Some were picking him to end the year as No.1, but by the middle of the year they had calmed down. Now there are some murmurs again after his success at the Masters Cup. Murray is experiencing the same imperceptive myopia common on these boards. Recent success and you are the second coming, a drop in fortune and you are a no good underachiever who will most likely fail to do anything great. That's how it works here. If Murray or Djokovic have a poor start next year, remember this post.

The other thing you are wrong about is your claim that players don't improve at and beyond Nalbandian's age. At this level, players are not going to improve at the age of 50, but at 26 Nalbandian can certainly still improve and maintain a high level over the next decade if he continues to play. I know this from personal experience and the fact many players, including Sampras, are on record saying they improved as players as they got older. Sampras said he played the best he ever had in the final of his last Slam win when he was 31. Also look at Nalbandian's first ever match and most recent match with Murray. The first time they met was at Wimbledon 2005 after Murray had just turned 19. Murray won the first 2 sets, the second of which was a breadstick. He was ranked 312 at the time and Nalbandian was a former Wimbledon finalist who would end that year at No.6. Murray ultimately lost the match in 5 sets because he ran out of gas. 3 years later in 2008 when Murray is a much better player, much stronger, much fitter, much more experienced, a Slam finalist himself, ranked No.4 in the world and on the hot streak of his life, with Roger Federer being amongst his recent scalps, and Nalbandian at No.8, they play again at the Paris Masters. What happens? Nalbandian straight sets Murray in an awesome display of tennis. What does that tell you? It tells me that everyone is at such a high level that nothing can be predicted with any confidence in this sport unless there is a clear separation in the respective ability between players.
 

caulcano

Hall of Fame
With Murray's excellent play in the second half of 2008, many tennis fans believe The Big 3 should now be The Big 4 to include him. However, if Grand Slams determine the quality of a player's season than it is obvious that The Big 3 should remain.

Consider: Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic all reached at least three Grand Slam semifinals this year. No other male player even reached two.

Thoughts?

Should be big 4.

For the 2009 AO I'd put the following in order which I think will win:

1. Djokovic (great TMC win, defending champ, a lot of confidence).
2. Murray (great for 2nd half of 2008, still question marks over consistency).
3. Federer (dissapointing 2008 considering his previous high levels, a chance to prove he has still got what it takes, though last few months don't indicate that).
4. Nadal (injury may reduce his chances of a full recovery).
 

anointedone

Banned
You are wrong on a number of counts. Firstly, this board went into a frenzy when Nalbandian beat Federer and Nadal in two consecutive tournaments and ended up winning two Masters Series titles. Many were picking him as one of the huge favourites at the Australian Open and were hoping he would challenge the top 2 over the course of the year. I knew better. Go back and look at the archives around that time. The same happened with Djokovic at the start of the year. Some were picking him to end the year as No.1, but by the middle of the year they had calmed down. Now there are some murmurs again after his success at the Masters Cup. Murray is experiencing the same imperceptive myopia common on these boards. Recent success and you are the second coming, a drop in fortune and you are a no good underachiever who will most likely fail to do anything great. That's how it works here. If Murray or Djokovic have a poor start next year, remember this post.

The other thing you are wrong about is your claim that players don't improve at and beyond Nalbandian's age. At this level, players are not going to improve at the age of 50, but at 26 Nalbandian can certainly still improve and maintain a high level over the next decade if he continues to play. I know this from personal experience and the fact many players, including Sampras, are on record saying they improved as players as they got older. Sampras said he played the best he ever had in the final of his last Slam win when he was 31. Also look at Nalbandian's first ever match and most recent match with Murray. The first time they met was at Wimbledon 2005 after Murray had just turned 19. Murray won the first 2 sets, the second of which was a breadstick. He was ranked 312 at the time and Nalbandian was a former Wimbledon finalist who would end that year at No.6. Murray ultimately lost the match in 5 sets because he ran out of gas. 3 years later in 2008 when Murray is a much better player, much stronger, much fitter, much more experienced, a Slam finalist himself, ranked No.4 in the world and on the hot streak of his life, with Roger Federer being amongst his recent scalps, and Nalbandian at No.8, they play again at the Paris Masters. What happens? Nalbandian straight sets Murray in an awesome display of tennis. What does that tell you? It tells me that everyone is at such a high level that nothing can be predicted with any confidence in this sport unless there is a clear separation in the respective ability between players.

Excellent post. Agree with everything you said.
 

Ripster

Hall of Fame
Murray has to be considered as part of the Big Four. He's beaten all of the top 3 this year and has been the hottest player since the US Open. The comparison with Nalbandian is not a good one since Nalby wasn't even ranked in the top 4 after his great three week run last fall.
 

fastdunn

Legend
yes, Murray is a serious threat to top 3 guys now. And the distances between top 4 and other top 10 players are pretty close too (compared to past, mostly due to Federer's poor performances this year). Of course, unless Federer totally tanked most of this year due to mono....... Unless he rises above everyone else again in 2009 and shows nothing has ever changed ... :)
 

anointedone

Banned
Murray has to be considered as part of the Big Four. He's beaten all of the top 3 this year and has been the hottest player since the US Open. The comparison with Nalbandian is not a good one since Nalby wasn't even ranked in the top 4 after his great three week run last fall.

I agree. Murray is definitely part of the big 4. However he is still the true #4 of that big 4 at this moment IMO.
 

fleabitten

Semi-Pro
the inclusion of murray as a solid no. 4 in the world is a good thing for tennis, so the nadal fans can stop whining on who gets djokovic on the draw. murray can beat the top 3 at any day.

This is sooooo true. Ya, just ask Fed, Rafa or Nole if they want to meet Murray. A resounding "no".

I think there is a bigger gap between 4 and 5 than between 3 and 4 - therefore The Big Four.
 

msc886

Professional
Murray is promising but he cannot be included yet as he has to be quite consistent throughtout the whole year. Nadal, Federer and Djokovic have all been quite consistent.
 

Fedace

Banned
Murray is promising but he cannot be included yet as he has to be quite consistent throughtout the whole year. Nadal, Federer and Djokovic have all been quite consistent.

Disagree, Murray has now passed Nadal and Federer in baseline prowess. so that makes him the top 3 or 4
 

urban

Legend
On clay, its obviously the big one. On hard court, Murray indeed has reached the level of Djokovic, Federer and Nadal. Also Simon and Del Potro are on the heels of the others.
 

DoubleDeuce

Hall of Fame
This is sooooo true. Ya, just ask Fed, Rafa or Nole if they want to meet Murray. A resounding "no".

I think there is a bigger gap between 4 and 5 than between 3 and 4 - therefore The Big Four.

It wasnt a resounding no when they asked Davydenko that question. He most likely knew better than you do.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
You are wrong on a number of counts. Firstly, this board went into a frenzy when Nalbandian beat Federer and Nadal in two consecutive tournaments and ended up winning two Masters Series titles. Many were picking him as one of the huge favourites at the Australian Open and were hoping he would challenge the top 2 over the course of the year. I knew better. Go back and look at the archives around that time. The same happened with Djokovic at the start of the year. Some were picking him to end the year as No.1, but by the middle of the year they had calmed down. Now there are some murmurs again after his success at the Masters Cup. Murray is experiencing the same imperceptive myopia common on these boards. Recent success and you are the second coming, a drop in fortune and you are a no good underachiever who will most likely fail to do anything great. That's how it works here. If Murray or Djokovic have a poor start next year, remember this post.

The other thing you are wrong about is your claim that players don't improve at and beyond Nalbandian's age. At this level, players are not going to improve at the age of 50, but at 26 Nalbandian can certainly still improve and maintain a high level over the next decade if he continues to play. I know this from personal experience and the fact many players, including Sampras, are on record saying they improved as players as they got older. Sampras said he played the best he ever had in the final of his last Slam win when he was 31. Also look at Nalbandian's first ever match and most recent match with Murray. The first time they met was at Wimbledon 2005 after Murray had just turned 19. Murray won the first 2 sets, the second of which was a breadstick. He was ranked 312 at the time and Nalbandian was a former Wimbledon finalist who would end that year at No.6. Murray ultimately lost the match in 5 sets because he ran out of gas. 3 years later in 2008 when Murray is a much better player, much stronger, much fitter, much more experienced, a Slam finalist himself, ranked No.4 in the world and on the hot streak of his life, with Roger Federer being amongst his recent scalps, and Nalbandian at No.8, they play again at the Paris Masters. What happens? Nalbandian straight sets Murray in an awesome display of tennis. What does that tell you? It tells me that everyone is at such a high level that nothing can be predicted with any confidence in this sport unless there is a clear separation in the respective ability between players.

Awesome post!
 
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