The Max 200g "could" become my racquet of choice

[PistolPete23]

A few weeks ago I snagged a total bargain on a Max 200g Pro in mint condition. Although I was already happy with my Donnay Pro One Penta 97, I wanted to at least try the legendary McEnroe/Graf racquet, with plans to hang it up on the wall soon afterward. The first thing I noticed was how hefty the racquet was, "feeling" substantially heavier than even my Taiwan PS85. I strung it up with a full bed of Volkl Cyclone 17g at 53 lbs. (I know, I know, I really should have gone with natural gut or a softer multi and at lower tension, but I was curious), put a leather grip on, and the racquet weighed over 360g. While bouncing the ball on the ground, the sweet spot felt small, but once I started hitting with it, it was another story. Yes, the headsize is small, but the unexpected thing is that I had no trouble at all finding the sweet spot, and my arms did not feel as tired as I thought they would be. And even off-centered shots didn't feel jarring on the arm. There was a lovely feedback I couldn't put into words; it was plush and firm at the same time, and now I finally know what players mean when they talk about being able to "massage" the ball. The launch angle was admittedly low, but I had no problem striking the ball with a modern swing and putting plenty of topspin on the it (maybe because of the poly?), even with that tight 18x20 string pattern. Plenty of power on the flat serve, much more than I expected, and noticeably better placement than my Donnay. If Dunlop were to retro this frame (they would never because the factories that did injection moulding no longer exist), I would seriously purchase at least 5 of these sticks to use for the next 20 years. I really didn't want to like this racquet as much as I did and I definitely did not expect a 30+ year old model to hit so nice.

 

[dnguyen]

I have two of them. Will never sell them ever!

 

[mcs1970]

Problem I have had with these classic frames is that they are a joy to hit with in practice. However in real games I need a more forgiving frame.

 

[PistolPete23]

Problem I have had with these classic frames is that they are a joy to hit with in practice. However in real games I need a more forgiving frame.

I am admittedly new to this rather expensive journey of discovering/rediscovering the greatness of classic racquets. There is a feeling of purity playing with racquets that were developed during an era when new racquets did not come with all the unnecessary tech hyperbole. For years I thought the contingent of people who insisted on playing with older frames were rather silly, until I finally decided to give it a shot myself and it dawned on me that racquet tech has not truly advanced as much as companies want us to believe it has. I wonder how much of our collective unwillingness to hit with a heavier racquet is conditioned by decades of marketing telling us that lighter and stiffer equates to better performance. As evidence of conditioned psychology, consider that Fed's autograph PS has as much mass as classic racquets of the past, and yet many club players choose the RF97a as their weapon of choice. I am sure that back in the day when the Max 200g represented the newest and the best, there were plenty of people both young and old who played with this racquet. For sure if you're accustomed to using a lighter racquet, it will be challenging in the beginning to use a heavier frame, but I think eventually anybody's stamina can adjust to the extra one or two ounces (seriously, that's all) without feeling disadvantaged during a match. I admit there are benefits to using a larger head size at the pro level when the marginal advantage of doing so (both physically and psychologically) becomes important, but I think even today, these old midsize frames can be relevant among serious amateur players during match play. It doesn't hurt that they help promote better timing and stroke mechanics.

 

[max]

It's the reason for my moniker.


Elegy to a Discontinued Tennis Racquet

O Calamity! O woe is me! They’ve dumped the Max 200 G!
That classic frame!
The choice of champs,
Made in England, not in France

Wielded by McEnroe and by Graf.
Stalwart Weapon---Victor’s Staff!
Deployed by the Mighty Navratilova,
And now it’s playing days are over.

Injected plastic stuff, the frame
Gives maximum flex and minimum pain.
Comfort complete, you could play for hours
With “Outstanding Vibration Dampening Powers”

Oh they trot out frames with similar names,
They tell you they’re new and they’re finer.
But that’s not true---they lie to you
And send you junk from China.

Racquets come and racquets go.
Clog attics above and basements below.
And in this world of pointless change,
Dunlop killed her company’s fame.

 

[michael valek]

Nice poem. Usd the max 200g aged 13, still got it. It’s 380grams. Prefer the puma supers and my recently acquired Becker world champ frames which are even better. And a paltry 345g.

 

[mcs1970]

I am admittedly new to this rather expensive journey of discovering/rediscovering the greatness of classic racquets. There is a feeling of purity playing with racquets that were developed during an era when new racquets did not come with all the unnecessary tech hyperbole. For years I thought the contingent of people who insisted on playing with older frames were rather silly, until I finally decided to give it a shot myself and it dawned on me that racquet tech has not truly advanced as much as companies want us to believe it has. I wonder how much of our collective unwillingness to hit with a heavier racquet is conditioned by decades of marketing telling us that lighter and stiffer equates to better performance. As evidence of conditioned psychology, consider that Fed's autograph PS has as much mass as classic racquets of the past, and yet many club players choose the RF97a as their weapon of choice. I am sure that back in the day when the Max 200g represented the newest and the best, there were plenty of people both young and old who played with this racquet. For sure if you're accustomed to using a lighter racquet, it will be challenging in the beginning to use a heavier frame, but I think eventually anybody's stamina can adjust to the extra one or two ounces (seriously, that's all) without feeling disadvantaged during a match. I admit there are benefits to using a larger head size at the pro level when the marginal advantage of doing so (both physically and psychologically) becomes important, but I think even today, these old midsize frames can be relevant among serious amateur players during match play. It doesn't hurt that they help promote better timing and stroke mechanics.

I have played with heavy frames from the beginning. Pro Staff 85, KPS 88, Diablo Mid, POG Mid. Currently have a couple of Volkl PB10 mids, 2 Solinco Pro 10, and a couple of Dunlop Revelation Pros (28 inch, 90 head size)

I love those frames and they are addictive in the truest sense (especially the PB10 mids) but at least for me real games are different. Any slight bit of nerves and these racquets make you pay for it. Though I don’t love the feel for my Babolat Pure Drive, I cannot argue with the results.

 

[PistolPete23]

It's the reason for my moniker.


Elegy to a Discontinued Tennis Racquet

O Calamity! O woe is me! They’ve dumped the Max 200 G!
That classic frame!
The choice of champs,
Made in England, not in France

Wielded by McEnroe and by Graf.
Stalwart Weapon---Victor’s Staff!
Deployed by the Mighty Navratilova,
And now it’s playing days are over.

Injected plastic stuff, the frame
Gives maximum flex and minimum pain.
Comfort complete, you could play for hours
With “Outstanding Vibration Dampening Powers”

Oh they trot out frames with similar names,
They tell you they’re new and they’re finer.
But that’s not true---they lie to you
And send you junk from China.

Racquets come and racquets go.
Clog attics above and basements below.
And in this world of pointless change,
Dunlop killed her company’s fame.

You sir, are on another level

 

[PistolPete23]

Nice poem. Usd the max 200g aged 13, still got it. It’s 380grams. Prefer the puma supers and my recently acquired Becker world champ frames which are even better. And a paltry 345g.

I have yet to try the Puma Becker frames. It's next on my bucket list.

 

[PistolPete23]

I have played with heavy frames from the beginning. Pro Staff 85, KPS 88, Diablo Mid, POG Mid. Currently have a couple of Volkl PB10 mids, 2 Solinco Pro 10, and a couple of Dunlop Revelation Pros (28 inch, 90 head size)

I love those frames and they are addictive in the truest sense (especially the PB10 mids) but at least for me real games are different. Any slight bit of nerves and these racquets make you pay for it. Though I don’t love the feel for my Babolat Pure Drive, I cannot argue with the results.

Cool, I think the experience for each person is different. I think its undeniable that modern frames can offer an "easier" playing experience, but I'm just a little sad when people denounce older classics as being unplayable for the modern game. IMO the difference in playability isn't that pronounced. There was a time when I played with only tweeners (now they're called modern players racquets ) because I thought that was the only way to go. I have yet to try a Pure Drive, but I do have a PK Composite Destiny in good condition, which I heard plays similarly.

 

[mcs1970]

Cool, I think the experience for each person is different. I think its undeniable that modern frames can offer an "easier" playing experience, but I'm just a little sad when people denounce older classics as being unplayable for the modern game. IMO the difference in playability isn't that pronounced. There was a time when I played with only tweeners (now they're called modern players racquets ) because I thought that was the only way to go. I have yet to try a Pure Drive, but I do have a PK Composite Destiny in good condition, which I heard plays similarly.

No. Was not saying that at all. Just that for my skill level these racquets were too demanding.

You can see by the number of player’s racquets I have spent on, I was trying to find the one racquet that would suit me well in real games too. Should have stuck to one and spent the rest of the money on lessons

 

[PistolPete23]

No. Was not saying that at all. Just that for my skill level these racquets were too demanding.

You can see by the number of player’s racquets I have spent on, I was trying to find the one racquet that would suit me well in real games too. Should have stuck to one and spent the rest of the money on lessons

Apologies for misunderstanding . I hear ya on the spending money on racquets part; I don't know what it is, they're just so enticing, ugh! Maybe I should invest in a few lessons instead ...

 

[graycrait]

@Pistol Pete , what are the specs of the 200G that you are enamored with.

Are these the specs?
Weight (unstrung): 355 gr.(about 12.5 oz)
Flex RDC: 40
Swing Waight: 337
Ballance: 8 pts. HL
Lenght: 27''
Headsize: 84 sq. in.
Beam Width: 22mm straight

If they are more power to you. The Volkl Quantum Tour 10 has captured me, but it is an OS lightweight compare to those specs listed.

 

[PistolPete23]

@Pistol Pete , what are the specs of the 200G that you are enamored with.

Are these the specs?
Weight (unstrung): 355 gr.(about 12.5 oz)
Flex RDC: 40
Swing Waight: 337
Ballance: 8 pts. HL
Lenght: 27''
Headsize: 84 sq. in.
Beam Width: 22mm straight

If they are more power to you. The
Quantum Tour 10 has captured me, but it is an OS lightweight compare to those specs listed.

I only have the strung weight - 367 g. Don’t know the RA, swing weight, and balance but it does feel flexible. 22 mm beam width I haven’t hit with the Quantum but I have a V-engine Tour 10 mid that’s pretty nice too.

 

[Slingerland61]

The first time I hit with a 200G (Serious Goodwill score!) I was amazed. So much control. So much feel. I didn’t think I was hitting hard until my partner was suddenly a step or two too slow. I’ve since found two others (1 more from the same Goodwill, 1 from FB marketplace), and I’ll use them regularly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PistolPete23]

The first time I hit with a 200G (Serious Goodwill score!) I was amazed. So much control. So much feel. I didn’t think I was hitting hard until my partner was suddenly a step or two too slow. I’ve since found two others (1 more from the same Goodwill, 1 from FB marketplace), and I’ll use them regularly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, it's definitely a unique stick, and more comfortable to play with than my foam-filled Donnays. No hollow feeling, almost like a hybrid between wood and graphite. I'm trying to collect single counts of a few more iconic classics (Puma Becker Super "Made in West Germany", Head Prestige Tour 600 "Made in Austria"). Once I find those, I may loop back to pick up another 200g in poorer condition to play with regularly. And then hopefully my collection will be complete and strong enough to trade with others if I ever want to try something else

 

[joe sch]

Any classic racket player should have a few max 200g's in their stock. A true link back to the wood era!

 

[PistolPete23]

Any classic racket player should have a few max 200g's in their stock. A true link back to the wood era!

Agree!

 

[yonexRx32]

I have abot 10 of them, in three pro versions and the non pro. The teal pro are my favorites. For match play the non pro is a better stick because it's stiffer and matches better against modern frames. I string them with Indian natural gut in the mains and multi in the crosses at 55lbs.

 

[d-quik]

I am admittedly new to this rather expensive journey of discovering/rediscovering the greatness of classic racquets. There is a feeling of purity playing with racquets that were developed during an era when new racquets did not come with all the unnecessary tech hyperbole. For years I thought the contingent of people who insisted on playing with older frames were rather silly, until I finally decided to give it a shot myself and it dawned on me that racquet tech has not truly advanced as much as companies want us to believe it has. I wonder how much of our collective unwillingness to hit with a heavier racquet is conditioned by decades of marketing telling us that lighter and stiffer equates to better performance. As evidence of conditioned psychology, consider that Fed's autograph PS has as much mass as classic racquets of the past, and yet many club players choose the RF97a as their weapon of choice. I am sure that back in the day when the Max 200g represented the newest and the best, there were plenty of people both young and old who played with this racquet. For sure if you're accustomed to using a lighter racquet, it will be challenging in the beginning to use a heavier frame, but I think eventually anybody's stamina can adjust to the extra one or two ounces (seriously, that's all) without feeling disadvantaged during a match. I admit there are benefits to using a larger head size at the pro level when the marginal advantage of doing so (both physically and psychologically) becomes important, but I think even today, these old midsize frames can be relevant among serious amateur players during match play. It doesn't hurt that they help promote better timing and stroke mechanics.

ya newer players definately don't get the weight thing. for a lot of people who are new to tennis getting heavier frames soudns coutner intuitive. its also hard to put into words just how the weight is SO FKN amazing. you also dont appreciate until you use it. but ya tl;dr

WEIGHT = GOOD

 

[NicoMK]

my recently acquired Becker world champ frames which are even better. And a paltry 345g.

Ah the BB world champ racket... my dream racket! So many times I watched it on the Bay but never bought it, too expensive. Could you post pics again as the ones in the other thread have gone? Thanks

 

[michael valek]

Better if you email me and I’ll send them. Mvalek@live.co.uk

 

[tennisbike]

WEIGHT = GOOD

Please, it is MASS not weight.

 

[d-quik]

Please, it is MASS not weight.

ahh yes very true

 

[PistolPete23]

Please, it is MASS not weight.

True, but mass is synonymous with weight, unless you're on another planet.

 

[tennisbike]

Understanding that you do not only swing the racket in the same direction as weight. It is about the inertia of the stick. There is good enough usage and the correct usage.

 

[PistolPete23]

Understanding that you do not only swing the racket in the same direction as weight. It is about the inertia of the stick. There is good enough usage and the correct usage.

As a scientist I agree with your points of argument, but it’s a simple enough conversion from weight to mass that it doesn’t bother me if the terminology isn’t precise, especially on a tennis forum. Weight scales linearly with mass; the more the racquet weighs, the higher its mass. TW itself uses “weight” on its spec descriptions for racquets and so does just about any other tennis website. If we want to be very technical, ounce is a unit of weight while grams is a unit of mass, but by convention ppl use both as “weight”.

 

[d-quik]

As a scientist I agree with your points of argument, but it’s a simple enough conversion from weight to mass that it doesn’t bother me if the terminology isn’t precise, especially on a tennis forum. Weight scales linearly with mass; the more the racquet weighs, the higher its mass. TW itself uses “weight” on its spec descriptions for racquets and so does just about any other tennis website. If we want to be very technical, ounce is a unit of weight while grams is a unit of mass, but by convention ppl use both as “weight”.

the rightest most righteous right though. jsut let him have it damn it. he at least articulated his reasoning and is still by all correct.

 

[teachingprotx]

What a amazing stick .. what’s cool and weird to me is how the pro ( last ) version looks rather modern .. as opposed to the first models and I think it’s the 200 g font work on right above the handle that Does it all for me . Love that part of the racket.. but no matter what for me . It’s still way too heavy and not head light enuff . But that FLEX , is smack dab 100000% right on the money man....

 

[joe sch]

I also have a couple of mint condition models I have been saving in my collection including this
Golden Gran Slam Max 200g model

 

[Don't Let It Bounce]

Elegy to a Discontinued Tennis Racquet

O Calamity! O woe is me! They’ve dumped the Max 200 G!
That classic frame!
The choice of champs,
Made in England, not in France

Wielded by McEnroe and by Graf.
Stalwart Weapon---Victor’s Staff!
Deployed by the Mighty Navratilova,
And now it’s playing days are over.

Injected plastic stuff, the frame
Gives maximum flex and minimum pain.
Comfort complete, you could play for hours
With “Outstanding Vibration Dampening Powers”

Oh they trot out frames with similar names,
They tell you they’re new and they’re finer.
But that’s not true---they lie to you
And send you junk from China.

Racquets come and racquets go.
Clog attics above and basements below.
And in this world of pointless change,
Dunlop killed her company’s fame.

Go ahead, Max. Tell 'em what grip belongs on the Max 200G...

 

[max]

Go ahead, Max. Tell 'em what grip belongs on the Max 200G...

ahh, yessssss! you recall!!!

 

[max]

My big thing has been wanting to write a poem about my Klippermate. I've had several rough starts, but I love the damn thing so much I cannot commit to any of them. The poetic muse treads on dangerous ground there.

 

[max]

I also have a couple of mint condition models I have been saving in my collection including this
Golden Gran Slam Max 200g model

ALWAYS wanted one of these pups!

 

[ratm355]

There are wood rackets, metal rackets, graphite/composites, and the Max 200G...another level. Completely playable in today's game. The whole stringbed is the sweet spot and if you measure horizontally along the center, it's similar to 90-95 sq in racket. Basically, it's like hitting with an XL racket that drops bombs and loads of touch. My main stick for years. I do have 5 extras if you want to get some

 

[WestboroChe]

Apologies for misunderstanding . I hear ya on the spending money on racquets part; I don't know what it is, they're just so enticing, ugh! Maybe I should invest in a few lessons instead ...

Cheaper than buying a bunch of golf clubs. Or skis.

 

[BorgCash]

Problem I have had with these classic frames is that they are a joy to hit with in practice. However in real games I need a more forgiving frame.

That's not a problem, i use to train with old heavy very small headed racquets requiring good footwork, sharp technique and timing. During playing i choose from more modern frames.

 

[joe sch]

That's not a problem, i use to train with old heavy very small headed racquets requiring good footwork, sharp technique and timing. During playing i choose from more modern frames.

Good training change of pace. I would sometimes during my playing days hit with one of my woods as a warm up. May have been those days I was playing the max 200g's. Going from a std wood to max200g, is like going from a max 200g to modern mid, atleast in sweet spot.
In any event, it is fun to play diff rackets. I do the same with bikes, have many and choose depending on my mood and ride path.

 

[BorgCash]

Good training change of pace. I would sometimes during my playing days hit with one of my woods as a warm up. May have been those days I was playing the max 200g's. Going from a std wood to max200g, is like going from a max 200g to modern mid, atleast in sweet spot.
In any event, it is fun to play diff rackets. I do the same with bikes, have many and choose depending on my mood and ride path.

Yes, definitely. Totally agree with you, like to change racquets all the time. I don't ride bikes, change skis instead of bikes .
Remember when in 1986 i first hit with graphite racquet instead of wood. It was much much easier to play, though the weight was the same - 375 gr, but the head size was bigger 25% and most important the material was another.

 

[WestboroChe]

Yes, definitely. Totally agree with you, like to change racquets all the time. I don't ride bikes, change skis instead of bikes .
Remember when in 1986 i first hit with graphite racquet instead of wood. It was much much easier to play, though the weight was the same - 375 gr, but the head size was bigger 25% and most important the material was another.

I like to play with racquets from the 80s but only for fun or in a clinic. For a match I generally stick with my modern frame. I have played successfully with old frames but that is more the exception than the rule.

I tend look at these old racquets as training equipment. They are easier on the body and require better form meaning you are in better shape both physically and technically for your matches.

 

[BorgCash]

I like to play with racquets from the 80s but only for fun or in a clinic. For a match I generally stick with my modern frame. I have played successfully with old frames but that is more the exception than the rule.

I tend look at these old racquets as training equipment. They are easier on the body and require better form meaning you are in better shape both physically and technically for your matches.

What modern racquets do you play with?

 

[WestboroChe]

What modern racquets do you play with?

Right now I use the Prince Tour L weighted up to about 325 grams. I have two of them with one being just a bit more headlight than the other.

 

[BorgCash]

Right now I use the Prince Tour L weighted up to about 325 grams. I have two of them with one being just a bit more headlight than the other.

I have about 200 racquets, and for play i choose more modern racquets than 80's sticks but also player's racquets considering classic:
Wilson PS 6.1 Classic, Dunlop 200 and 300 series, different editions (especially 4D Aerogel 200 Tour), Yonex RD-7, Vantage/Angell 95, Donnay XBlue and Pro One, Head iPrestige, etc.

 

[WestboroChe]

I have about 200 racquets, and for play i choose more modern racquets than 80's sticks but also player's racquets considering classic:
Wilson PS 6.1 Classic, Dunlop 200 and 300 series, different editions (especially 4D Aerogel 200 Tour), Yonex RD-7, Vantage/Angell 95, Donnay XBlue and Pro One, Head iPrestige, etc.

You’ve definitely got me there mate! I have the two Prince Tours and a random collection of mostly PK and a couple Prince frames. I originally started looking for something to alleviate my TE and actually liked them.

I used to play with a nCode 6.1 PS but decided after 10 years I wanted something just a little bit lighter and easier to control. Those nCode PSs were actually very powerful because they weighed like 355 grams and were fairly stiff. (TW listed it as 68).

 

[BorgCash]

You’ve definitely got me there mate! I have the two Prince Tours and a random collection of mostly PK and a couple Prince frames. I originally started looking for something to alleviate my TE and actually liked them.

I used to play with a nCode 6.1 PS but decided after 10 years I wanted something just a little bit lighter and easier to control. Those nCode PSs were actually very powerful because they weighed like 355 grams and were fairly stiff. (TW listed it as 68).

If you want to get something new that is easier to control and lighter i can advice you some racquets. Actually it's easier on your arm, because the frames are foam filled. Also, if you look at custom racquets, you could choose weight, balance and smth else what is good for you. Also, these racquets got "pleasant feeling" when you play. I use to train with Lendl's racquet, so after it almost anything will be lighter and easier to play. So, try any of Angell racquet, or some new Donnay racquets.

 

[WestboroChe]

If you want to get something new that is easier to control and lighter i can advice you some racquets. Actually it's easier on your arm, because the frames are foam filled. Also, if you look at custom racquets, you could choose weight, balance and smth else what is good for you. Also, these racquets got "pleasant feeling" when you play. I use to train with Lendl's racquet, so after it almost anything will be lighter and easier to play. So, try any of Angell racquet, or some new Donnay racquets.

I’m actually very happy with my weighted up Tour L. It doesn’t give me any arm trouble. The only reason I got TE was from trying out poly strings after years of hearing about them. I figured I would get it eventually if I continued to use it but was surprised at how quickly it happened. It was either take a month off or switch to a softer racquet. TTW led me to the Prince Silver Ace as a soft arm friendly and most importantly incredibly cheap racquet ($15 including shipping on the Bay).

After playing with it a bit I decided it was a bit too flexible so I tried a BlackAce. What a tremendous frame but unforgiving. Miss hits just die on it and I have a hard time volleying with it but serves and ground strokes. Oh my.

 

[BorgCash]

I’m actually very happy with my weighted up Tour L. It doesn’t give me any arm trouble. The only reason I got TE was from trying out poly strings after years of hearing about them. I figured I would get it eventually if I continued to use it but was surprised at how quickly it happened. It was either take a month off or switch to a softer racquet. TTW led me to the Prince Silver Ace as a soft arm friendly and most importantly incredibly cheap racquet ($15 including shipping on the Bay).

After playing with it a bit I decided it was a bit too flexible so I tried a BlackAce. What a tremendous frame but unforgiving. Miss hits just die on it and I have a hard time volleying with it but serves and ground strokes. Oh my.

I know ProKennex Silver Ace and Black Ace racquets. Prince also got these models?

 

[WestboroChe]

I know ProKennex Silver Ace and Black Ace racquets. Prince also got these models?

No. Sorry if I confused you.
Most of my vintage frames are PK because I discovered they are a great value. Have you seen what people are asking for an original Prince OS? Not thanks. When I started playing tennis in the 90s PK was seen as a bargain basement brand and most players I knew used Prince or Wilson. But now that I’m older and wiser I realize PK is actually an innovative and under appreciated brand.

 

[BorgCash]

No. Sorry if I confused you.
Most of my vintage frames are PK because I discovered they are a great value. Have you seen what people are asking for an original Prince OS? Not thanks. When I started playing tennis in the 90s PK was seen as a bargain basement brand and most players I knew used Prince or Wilson. But now that I’m older and wiser I realize PK is actually an innovative and under appreciated brand.

Ok. I think PK was a good brand even in 80's. For arm friendly racquet i could also recommend Volkl C10 Pro.

 

[teachingprotx]

The op 200 g is the best pj Dunlop EVER HAD ! I too love this frame but way too heavy for me .i sanded off all the paint on mine . And got mine down to 11oz and some change . Hits unreal