Happi
Hall of Fame
Red 16x19 vs Lime 18x20
The Official Angell Users Club
- Thread starter The_Racketeer
- Start date
Red is 16x19, Lime is 18x20.
I'd say they're similar overall, but FWIW my Lime SW is 3pts higher (unstrung) than the Red. With the increased density, the strung SW is 7 pts higher than the Red.
Happi
Hall of Fame
K7 Red SW 283 unstrung 16x19
K7 Lime SW 284 unstrung 18x20
you can go down in guage on the Lime so overall SW will be about the same for both racquets
I have the XL versions but my unstrung SWs are 307 (Red XL) and 310 (Lime XL)
ekucheraw
New User
I got all of the regular length K7's and have been greatly enjoying them. I need to restring the Cyan as we used it as a "Mannarino Tension" experiment which honestly turned out really positive in that frame at 20Lbs. Swings fast through the air, comfortable, lovely launch angle, enjoyable experience so far.
On paper I should love the Lime since I'm an 18x20 315g lover but something about that frame is just missing for me. Yes it's a control racquet but even on those grounds it lacks stopping power on the court, making it too underpowered to feel like a precision scalpel like a Prestige, CX200, or Vcore Pro D. Maybe adding a bit of weight will alleviate that complaint for me but it's the only Angell racquet I've ever used that didn't instantly hook me.
The Red is the easy winner for me, though at the caveat of being uninspiring. It shares that quality with a Blade: plays great, just doesn't excel at anything to the point where you feel like you get more out that you put in. It's stable, it's powerful, it's spinny, and best of all it's predictable. I know exactly what I get out of the Red every stroke I take, which makes for some great points at the end of the day, just don't expect to feel like you're beating the fuzz off the ball or ripping insane spin while you win.
Haven't had a chance to try any XLs though the last time I tried an extended length (ezone+) I had a miserable time so I may shy away from those personally.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Thanks (everyone)!
Yeah, my only Xls experience has been 0.25 (not even 0.5) and even that took a while to get used it (for defense). I had to be forced practically to play with one for four days in a row (due to blisters caused by a flared buttcap on my regular length racquets) to end up loving it, for the power (like you said).
officerdibble
Semi-Pro
Hi Happi,
I think you've perhaps not appreciated the mathematics of ellipse areas, so it before you start "suggesting" that Angell "claiming" different sizes is "marketing", it would be worth getting a clearer understanding of the actual difference and how visually apparent that's likely to be. There is a link here (Omnicalculater) that you can use to explore what difference any particular change makes.
I know how much care Paul (Angell) takes when designing frames. In case it's helpful, here are a few different sizes (with Max Length/ Width and effective head size) that I got from Paul...
- TC95: 325mm / 241.22mm equates to 162.5/120.61 = 95.44"
- React 96: 326mm / 242.22mm equates to 163/121.11 = 96.16"
- TC97: 327mm / 243.22mm equates to 163.5/121.61 = 96.82"
- K7: 330mm / 243.22mm equates to 165/121.11 = 97.7"
I've been reliably informed if you took one square inch and divided it into strips that were 0.039" wide (that's a mm where I live), you wouldn't have enough strips laid end-to-end to get all the way round the circumference of the racket head. So you'd probably need the eyes of a friendly eagle to see the difference between, say, a 95 and 97.
The good news is that Paul can tell you this kind of thing about the rackets he designs. I'm not sure you'd get that information from most racket companies!
Enjoy the rackets. I recently got a React MP Pro 99 and am blown away by the quality of frames that Angell produce. I was previously using a TC97. The fact that Angell offers these different frame size options is amazing really. Angell has always been focused on helping players get the specs they want, in so far as they can; so if you have a preference or want to have some fun exploring the impact of different options, there is more chance of getting what you want from them than the bigger companies that offer a couple of options (and usually in fixed weight and balance points) - I try not to take that for granted. And it's definitely not "marketing".
Weekendhacker
Rookie
The pic of the the Lime (98) on top of the TC95 (95) indicated to me that the head size and head shape of those 2 racquets are identical/near identical. I’m not sure I believe those numbers. Usually a difference of 2 sq inches or more is quite obvious if you lay the racquets on top of each other. This wasn’t obvious at all and there’s supposed to be a 3 sq inch difference (see the pic Happi posted last week).
Bartobolas
New User
Big thanks for the suggestion! Between using Cream as a cross and dropping the tension 4kgs I'm at a similar comfort level as my Speeds. And it's improved on volleys which was it's weaker point IMO.
Trouble is my new frame came in at 297 SW vs 295 1st frame. Dropping the tension ( especially nat gut) bumped up the weight 2g so I'm over spec on the new frame. Any way to shave off some weight on the headguard?
I managed to remove 2 grams off a TC100 head guard by using leather punch pliers.
Happi
Hall of Fame
You are welcome.
You can shave off the side gromments, I can make a picture of how I did that. That is about 6 SW down I think.
Happi
Hall of Fame
I do have a science degree in Engineering so I do know about ellipse area. Those numbers you have are not the same as I can meassure on my frames, see post 27030
TC95 (18x20) V3 - 326mm / 243mm
K7 Lime 98 (18x20) - 326mm / 243mm - My K7 Lime is not 330mm as your numbers suggest. My meassurement are about +/- 1mm and numbers are unstrung.
Visually these 2 frames are identical, and very close to a Head Radical Microgel 18x20, but my Prince TT95 is visually a lot smaller. So numbers do not really add up in real life.
I actually discuss this with Paul, and he was the one who told me that head numbers are a way to position a frame in the market. BTW TC95, TC97 (both 18x20) and K7 Lime 98 share the same gromments.
I a big fan of Angell racquets, and have absolutely nothing bad to say about the company.
I will try to meassure the inside perimeter to see if there is any difference.
Happi
Hall of Fame
I have 3 React Custom 310/310 MP 99 18x19 and the all came with SW 288, 288, and 287 so yours seem to be off unless you ordered higher SW, or could it perhaps be how SW is meassured. I have a Briffidi SW1 and it seem to be quite accurate. You can talk to Paul to confirm as he have registred all the numbers for each racquet, so you are able to order matched ones.
officerdibble
Semi-Pro
Based on the linked site, a difference of 1mm in both directions on your measurements would virtually account for the difference between a 95 and 97 (a difference in each axis of 1.2mm is all it would take).
Happi
Hall of Fame
It was a +/- 1 mm so it could go in both directions.
However I dont really care, I have TC95 and K7 Lime 98 and they are identical to my eye and meassurements, and if one is 1 mm larger than the other I dont think it matters in real life. Same goes for TC100 and React 99, they are also identical to my eye. They do play very different but that is not due to the minimum (if any) difference in head size.
officerdibble
Semi-Pro
Which is your (current) favourite. I’ve been using the ASi for a while but recently got a React 99. I tried a different string set up in it initially (no idea why!) - when I strung it with my standard hybrid (a Double AR co-poly at 48.5 lbs and the Angell multi at 54.5) I was a very happy bunny. I had to move away from all poly because of an elbow injury (not from tennis) and that Angell multi is amazing.
React 99 and Lime XL have my favorite (I've had/have the TC97/95/90/cyan XL/Red XL/lime xl/react 99)
Bartobolas
New User
Ohh I see. I assumed the 288 SW was normal for the 305g standard frames. When I got the 1st one and it came in at 295 unstrung SW I gelled with it so much, adding only .75g of weight at 12, that I asked for the 2nd frame to come close to it, but with 2 additional SW points on 2nd frame and now 2g extra due to strings (probably another 2pts) it's a bit high. I haven't gotten any response from Angell via the email route so I didn't bother bombarding him with more questions.
If you have a photo of the shaved headguard handy I'd appreciate it very much. It's actually thanks to your detailed review of the React months ago that I even pulled the trigger in the first place.
Bartobolas
New User
It's not the first time I see you mention head size but you finally opened my eyes to this aspect. It makes a lot of sense. I struggle to see a difference in my H22 98sq" and Head Pro Tour 95sq" 3" difference. And yet there is a huge difference in H22 vs Speed 100sq". Only 2" apart. I'll take head size with a grain of salt now. I wish this wasn't the case, but it's another reason to test a frame vs going off specs on paper.
I've been curious about the Angell multi. Could you compare it to any other multis such as velocity or multifeel if you've tried them?
I have a pair of Angell Octane (v3) TC97 18x20s at 320g 12pt HL that I am falling back in live with. Strung with Tru Pro Black Knight 1.18mm at 46lbs. The frame does everything I can dream up. Every ball seems to have extra pace and this string really let's me get the most out of the performance potential of the frame.
Serves are huge and groundstrokes are generally flatter, but adding bigger shape and spin is always on tap. I'm a more naturally flat hitter, that learned true topspin production later in my development so this Angell has been thebperfect gateway to bridge this issue.
I own, and have owned, a lot of other Angells - but this is the one that will likely always be the magic one for me.
Serves are huge and groundstrokes are generally flatter, but adding bigger shape and spin is always on tap. I'm a more naturally flat hitter, that learned true topspin production later in my development so this Angell has been thebperfect gateway to bridge this issue.
I own, and have owned, a lot of other Angells - but this is the one that will likely always be the magic one for me.
Bartobolas
New User
I actually got close enough without shaving grommets, but would still love to see that picture of how you did it, when you get a chance. Just in case I need to fine tune down the line.
I used a rubber band instead of a dampener and added a tiny bit of tape on my 2nd frame, which was slightly higher SW and it matched. I customized it by feel and got the 2 frames to match perfectly. I'm getting good at this. (I don't own a SW machine or balance board but my stringer confirmed it.)
Happi
Hall of Fame
TC100 Octane with side gromments (not sure what the right term is) cut off, SW is -6 points.
Bartobolas
New User
TC100 Octane with side gromments (not sure what the right term is) cut off, SW is -6 points.
The React grommets seem a bit different but it gives me Ideas of how I can shave off a little all around and I'm sure I can get 3 grams and not make it hideous. For now with the current setup they both match so I don't have to do anything.
But I'm having a bigger problem with this frame and my elbow. Even using gut and cream and dropping the tensions to 45 x 40lbs I'm experiencing discomfort. Especially on volleys and slices. You mentioned going strictly to multis now. Did you find it to be the most comfortable option?
I love this frame so much. I'm playing on a different level with it, but I'm running out of ideas to get the comfort level I had with my Speed Pro '22, which in comparison feels like playing with w broom. It's so cumbersome to swing and lacks the speed and controlled power of the React.
zeneto1234
New User
I can just talk about the React Pro 96. Excellent feel, the most predictable modern racket i've ever tried, the string pattern is very closed like any 18x20 angell racket, the sweet spot is bigger than old 95's rackets, the RA feels higher than the number suggest. In stock form i found it to be pretty light for my taste and lacked a bit of plow through, so i weighted it up with 2 OG, 1 dampener(4g) and lead at 3 - 9 and at 1 - 11 o'clock. I used to play with one OG and sometimes i put some lead under the bumper at 12 (used to play with 100 and 98 rackets), this is my first time playing with a racket with this headzise and the experience was the best until now.
Bartobolas
New User
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pico
Hall of Fame
I have a V4 that I like but just haven't found a good string setup for it. I haven't tried 1.20mm or below. Maybe I should give that a go.
ekucheraw
New User
I string mine up with either Tru Pro Black Knight 17g or Toroline KPro both at 54 Lbs. While I love KPro and have put it in most of my frames, the Black Knight 17g + Angell combo always feels just perfect to me.
If you have an 18x20 you should definitely try thin string!
I also have liked Volkl Cyclone 1.15, and Diadem Pro X 1.15.
For tension I like 44-48lbs depending on the time of year.
I am in the best/worst dilemma. I recently purchased a barely used v5 TC95 18x20 27.25in 320g 12pt HL frame, but now I'm on vacation for 10 days!
So, until I can hit with it, I want to read about what I can expect, haha.
For reference, I used a 97 18x20 for a long time, big big fan. Used Tru Pro Black Knight 1.18 poly around 47lbs and the frame gave me almost everything I wanted. In many ways I never should have fallen off the wagon and started trying to find a new frame, but here we are (I still have 2x 97 18x20 octanes so it's fine).
I also have a 95 and 97 16x19. I really wanted to switch to the 95 16x19 but I could never really find a setup I trusted. Probably just too much of a difference. The launch angle is very different from the 18x20 and the thicker round poly tames the frame, but then takes away some of the putaway power.
I'm a 4.5 with a big serve. Play my best when I'm dictating points and playing downhill to finish at net. I naturally play flatter geoundstrokes, but have developed the ability to shape the ball a lot better in the past 3 years.
Will this new 27.25in 95 18x20 be the perfect hybrid of frame characteristics? Let me know!
So, until I can hit with it, I want to read about what I can expect, haha.
For reference, I used a 97 18x20 for a long time, big big fan. Used Tru Pro Black Knight 1.18 poly around 47lbs and the frame gave me almost everything I wanted. In many ways I never should have fallen off the wagon and started trying to find a new frame, but here we are (I still have 2x 97 18x20 octanes so it's fine).
I also have a 95 and 97 16x19. I really wanted to switch to the 95 16x19 but I could never really find a setup I trusted. Probably just too much of a difference. The launch angle is very different from the 18x20 and the thicker round poly tames the frame, but then takes away some of the putaway power.
I'm a 4.5 with a big serve. Play my best when I'm dictating points and playing downhill to finish at net. I naturally play flatter geoundstrokes, but have developed the ability to shape the ball a lot better in the past 3 years.
Will this new 27.25in 95 18x20 be the perfect hybrid of frame characteristics? Let me know!
tennisreflectslife
Rookie
Hello folks! Anyone tried the new V5 TC97 16x19 by any chance ? Wondering how different it is from the previous TC97's. I used to play with the V2 TC97, and curious is V5 is significant improvement in any aspect. Thank you!
landcookie
Semi-Pro
Recently went from a 63 RA TC 100 16x19 to a TC 95 Octane 16x19.
The stringbed on the 95 feels a lot stiffer - anyone else have a similar experience?
The stringbed on the 95 feels a lot stiffer - anyone else have a similar experience?
If you kept the same string I would drop tension by 3 or 4lbs and reassess.
I had the 100, it felt great but it was so powerful I could never trust it in a match that mattered. I have a 95 16x19 and am still trying to find a string that suits me.
So far, 1.25 or bigger round polys have felt the best strung around 45lbs.
Carreau
Semi-Pro
I think it is physics. Smaller head must feel stiffer as it is denser and length of the string is shorter in general. You may try to lower your tension.
By the way - this new TC95 is same 63RA or 70?
landcookie
Semi-Pro
63 RA for the 95. Already Dropped tension by 5-7lbs.
Just doesn’t have the same plush feel for some reason.
I strung my 100 with 1.30 ptp or red code. But am now experimenting with 1.25 strings in razor code, razor soft and hyper g round.
I was wondering this as well, are people mainly buying the 18x19?
zeneto1234
New User
i had the same experience and the only answer is the more open stringbed of the tc100. You can lower the tension for better feel/power but its unlikely that it will feel the same
Happi
Hall of Fame
I really like TC100 16x19 and TC95 18x20, somehow I never was in love with TC95 16x19. I was hoping for a TC100 18x20 but instead came React 99 18x19 and this is now my favorite Angell racquet.
Took delivery of a used TC105 V4 Custom yesterday, the specs are quite interesting...on the throat label it's 300g, 10pts HL, 27.5" extended Iength. Strung it with Kirschbaum Spiky Black Shark 1.25mm mains and Alu Power RG 1.28mm crosses at 48/48lbs. Strung specs came out as follows: Swingweight 319.9, Twistweight 13.9, static weight (with overgrip) 325g, balance 325mm (6 HL). It plays similar to my TC100 but even with the bigger head size it feels more manoeuvrable being 12 swingweight points lower. I probably should have strung it at 52 as it's quite powerful but it felt good in friendly singles, will try it in competitive doubles tomorrow. Anyone else tried this beast?
Will build up to a longer review, but first impressions of my 95 v5 18x20 320g 27.25in frame is that it is a true monster. This is the first frame that has turned my slice backhand into a weapon. I've always had a good slice and it will vary from racket to racket. Some rackets float it too much, some will keep it nice and low but it is more directional.
This 95 let's me feel like Roy Emerson. It is wild to feel "offensive" using a slice backhand. I won several points yesterday using it, and several more drawing errors from the pace+spin.
The rest of the game has been great too. And serves are Angell-big of course.
Have about 4 hours under the belt so far, with more to come next weekend.
This 95 let's me feel like Roy Emerson. It is wild to feel "offensive" using a slice backhand. I won several points yesterday using it, and several more drawing errors from the pace+spin.
The rest of the game has been great too. And serves are Angell-big of course.
Have about 4 hours under the belt so far, with more to come next weekend.
tennisreflectslife
Rookie
Hey guys. Am looking to get the TC97 16x19 in slightly extended length (27.25). Wondering if anyone else has tried this before and what their experience was. I had a regular length TC97 16x19 before, and would love if someone can comment in comparing regular length TC97 vs extended length if they have tried (especially keen in power and swingweight comparisons). Also was wondering if anyone has tried TC97 in the new V5 version, I last the used the V2. Hearing that the subsequent model have become crisper and more powerful. For the V2 I had to put some lead at 12 o clock to manage a slight dead spot in the upper hoop. Any inputs greatly appreciated!!
Not the 97, but my TC90 TC95 and custom React were 27.25.
I personally prefer the extended length for the extra swingweight. I still added lead as I like SW in the 330-340 range
tennisreflectslife
Rookie
Thank you! Glad to hear that with the extra 0.25 inch your TC's were still 330 range. Was afraid it might go north of that making any further customization infeasible. I used tc97 for long time few years ago, now thinking of trying it again in V5 version after a long scenic detour of several rackets/brands lol
My 27.25 frames had the following unstrung SWs:Thank you! Glad to hear that with the extra 0.25 inch your TC's were still 330 range. Was afraid it might go north of that making any further customization infeasible. I used tc97 for long time few years ago, now thinking of trying it again in V5 version after a long scenic detour of several rackets/brands lol
TC90 (V5) - 304
TC95 (V5) - 305
React MPP - 298
Some advocate for buying the longer lengths, as you can always cut them down to standard length if you want to. I've never done it, but seems simple enough.
10sGearHead
New User
I was looking for comments or a review on them too. Couldn't find any, but ordered one at 310g / 310mm. It's about to ship.
That's funny, I did exactly the same, ordered 305g/10pts HL with a leather grip, also about to ship, so I'm guessing they do them in batches.
10sGearHead
New User
I opted for a leather grip too!
I'm hoping it's a good leather grip, but I don't think its calf-skin, so I may replace it; it was such a cheap option I thought I'd give it a go. Got a couple of weeks before the next fixture season starts so keen to get it and get some time on court before the first round.